Rank our Defence

[Coach]

We all see what we want to see at times.

Gourdis and Grimes have a long long way to go.  Watch the 4thQ vs PA (round 22) and see how many goals those two cost us by crashing into each other.  The way those two got so easily blocked out of marking contests (by crashing into each other no less) says they've got lots to work on with respect of positioning, reading blocks and reading how the ball is coming into the forward line.  Keystone Kop'esque if truth be told.

We do indeed, mate  

I thought Goo was okay in the Port game. Was always on Sarges tail and got some good spoils in. Like I said before, he's got plenty to learn but there is definitely something to work with. This was his first year down back and he only made his debut this season. I reckon we can cut he and Grimes some slack. It took Kel Moore a long time to show his talent at AFL level. It's not like they've been here 6 years and still make the same mistakes.  

Personally I hope Gourdis can keeping improving and finishes up as our FB. Astbury as CHB and the versatile Moore in the BP playing on either a tall or a small.  

[the claw]

imo you miss the whole point. we cant go with mcguane or thursty we have to do better. as such we now need to find out if gourdis is better. he certainly has more to work with than both the others.

Which point would that be? That at the moment McGuane and Moore are our best Key Position backmen or that Gourdis is barely off the Rookie list and we are praying he will miraculously improve to such a point in one year that he becomes our undesputed full back. I'm hoping the last is the case but he still has a huge amount of growth and development a head of him in a very small time frame.

I think as myself, MT and others have already pointed out, that our key backmen are a real concern and the recruitment and development of talent in this area should be one of our biggest focus on as a club going forward.

So what point did I miss?
Stripes

the point of mcguane being our best along with moore in kp. if they are we are in bigger trouble than custer at the big horn.

ke; moore should not be selected ever as a kpp unless injuries on game day kill us. mcguane just is not up to the standard and that rookie you talk about in gourdis now enters yr 4 has shown enough improvement to go from the coburg reserves to playing very good footy at coburg seniors to playing  for richmond. his attributes automatically place him in front of bloody hacks like mcguane.
im not praying gourdis will miraculously improve i would have thought that has already occcured on a gradual scale. what needs to happen now is find out if he can be better than a very ordinary player by giving him games.
you people really dont get it backing in 6 yr under performing hacks and in the same breath denying a younger player the opportunity to at least show he can be better than below standard which is exactly what mcguane is. theres nothing to lose by playing gourdis and plenty to gain.

and your damn right as mt yourself, and myself which has been constantly pointed out for yrs now  by the way the key backs especially the older hacks are of real concern hence my posting.

[Stripes]

I don't believe throwing Gourdis into the deep end all year as our FB is the answer. Perhaps as our third tall defender if the matchups are right, who swaps with McGuane into the position/role but the last thing we need is to destroy his confidence and his team mates in his ability by giving him the number one role without, at the very least, backup.

I'm certainly not saying McGuane is one of the best defenders in the league but he, and Moore for that matter, remains our best tall defender at this stage and until others can push him/them out of that role then he will remain out number option. The club has elevated Gourdis for a reason but I don't feel he is there yet and would be extremely surprized if he was given the FB position in our first game of the year.

Stripes

[Coach]

That's fair enough, Stripes. I am hoping Gourdis plays at least 10 games this year. The club showed belief in him by putting him on some good forwards last season. He was pretty good apart from Kossie kicking 4 on him. Can't really blame Gourdis for that though as Kossie lead well and got hit on the tit every time. I get the feeling a few coterie members won't like the Goo getting games at full back Suck poo you old whores. Times are changing

 

[Dice]

and your damn right as mt yourself, and myself which has been constantly pointed out for yrs now  by the way the key backs especially the older hacks are of real concern hence my posting.

I want what you're on Craw

[Penelope]

the point of mcguane being our best along with moore in kp. if they are we are in bigger trouble than custer at the big horn.

Interesting story that. Custer came within a whisker of pulling off an inspired and remarkable achievement, but due to lack of teamwork got slaughtered. A bit like footy I suppose, where lack of teamwork cannot be overcome by individual talent.

Sorry to detract.

As you were.

[mightytiges]

This thread is a mirror image of the Midfield thread but, of course, focusing on our defenders.

Please rank our defenders from 1st to last.

Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -

1.   Newman - our general in defence, directs defensive team, bleeds for the club, beautiful disposal, sets up play
2.   Deledio - Newman's deputy, amazing natural ability, our best player based on skill, sets up play
3.   McGuane - Our best tall defender imho, has speed and excellent spoiling ability, experienced and improved disposal
4.   Moore - another underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players
5.   Astbury - still raw but with a massive upside, tall, quick and lovely by foot
6.   Connors - Showed a huge amount last season and improved attitude, great footskills, me curial,
7.  Thursfield - great spoiler but lacks the attacking games required in to-days football
8.   Tuck - played in the midfield and defence this year, strong, great ball winner
9.   Farmer - Hinted at playing more in attack next season but farmer showed glimpses of form this year, great long kick, hard at it
10. Gourdis - wonderful athlete but questions about his footskills, elevated because of his improved decision making and confidence but still needs to show much more advancement to cement a place in the team.
11. O'Rielly - played 3 games in a good first season but still has a long way to go
12. Grimes - IMO will become a good players but still very raw
13.  Rance - lacks polish and defensive skills, great athlete, played forward and back but juries out
14. Batchelor - Amazing prospect, mid sized natural defender with wonder ball skills, marking ability and decision-making skills, new recruit keeping him down the list
15. Dea - great physic for a young player, injury and inexperience still needs to be overcome



Thanks

Stripes

Stripes, your post from 12 months ago shows by how much our defensive options have changed over the past year. Thursty has gone, Moore is on the long-term injury list while McGuane and Connors will be lucky if they are still around at Punt Rd  in another year's time. On the other hand from the bottom of the list has popped up Rance who is our No.1 key defender now with Grimes and Batch expected to continue to develop and become mainstays in our back 6 for many years to come. Spot on with your pre-season prediction for Batchelor last year btw Stripes  .

[MADTIGER2010]

A bit has changed in 12 months. Let's try our best 6 again 

FB houli rance newman
HB grimes post batchelor

Newman is the only player who remains

[WA Tiger]

 So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... ....much better off after the draft/trade period...

[gerkin greg]

I want what you're on Craw

R.I.P Blacky
A true tugger

[Penelope]

So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... ....much better off after the draft/trade period...

You get crucified so often we should just call you JC 

[tiga]

A bit has changed in 12 months. Let's try our best 6 again 

FB houli rance newman
HB grimes post batchelor

Newman is the only player who remains

I'd push Newman to mid/flanker, Insert Morris and I'd probably go for Astbury, Dea or even the forgotten man McGuane over Post. With Rance taking on the role of General in defence during recent training sessions suggests that Newy is a cert to move into the middle of the ground along with Lids. Houli may also push forward regularly leaving another small defensive spot to the likes of Arnot, King, Connors or even Ellis to start with. King Conc may also drop back occasionally as a roving back flanker depending on the midfield setup.

[Stripes]

Hey MT. Yes - amazing how much things have changed in just 12 months!    Once again though, we are still not settled in the back six. I think Rance is the only certain starter with Grimes a wonderful prospect but still very raw. With Lids, and now with a strong possibility of Newman, moving out of the backline it leaves many spots open for mine. Just amazing the turn around of ability and responsibility. You could almost turn my list upside down and have our 2012 list. That's an amazing change imo and shows the confidence the club as placed in our young defenders.

I'm going to attempt to re-rank/order the backline again but as you can see with my last analysis, it all just playing blindfolded darts at this stage.

Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -

1.   Rance - now our best tall defender. Athletic, strong and makes good decision now. Made me eat my words 
2.   Houli - best trade of the decade! Our new general in defence. Amazing foot skills and run & carry.
3.   Batchelor -  an experienced head on young shoulders. A young Newy. Wonderful foot skills. Will only get better.
4.   Grimes - our answer to Fletcher. Was amazed by his improvement but still lacks experience and size. Great player.
5.   Moore - underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players. We will be lucky to see him in 2012.
6.   Post - Naturally skilled with great hands. Needs to step up this year and carve out a spot or its bye bye.
7.  McGuane People are going to love this but our backup tall defender is still better atm than those below.
8.   Dea - still raw but with a massive upside. Strong taller, quick and should become our shut down 'small' defender
9.   Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
10.   Ellis - could be challenging Morris/Dea for the running defender spot. Already a great size but inexperienced.
11.   Astbury - could be anything but needs a good run with injuries and needs to push into a KP spot.
12.   Griffiths - Amazing talent with shoulder problems. Love to see him forward but has the size and speed to make it as a defender if needed. Unproven at present.
13. Connors - I'm uncertain where he will finish up playing and on ability alone he should be much further up the list but his attitude and injuries have handicapped him to date. Could be the big improver (again) in 2012.


It's amazing to see how many defenders we have dropped off this list - Thursfield, Gourdis, ORielly, Farmer and now Lids, Newy and Tuck.

Have a go yourself!

[WA Tiger]

So when I was crucified for saying we lacked depth in our back line and now with our pick ups ......... ....much better off after the draft/trade period...

You get crucified so often we should just call you JC 

 

[gerkin greg]

tizz Crooner