Author Topic: Rank our Defence  (Read 4567 times)

Offline Danog

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Re: Rank our Defence
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2012, 03:16:42 AM »
9.  Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Rank our Defence
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2012, 11:47:34 PM »
Hey MT. Yes - amazing how much things have changed in just 12 months!   :-\ Once again though, we are still not settled in the back six. I think Rance is the only certain starter with Grimes a wonderful prospect but still very raw. With Lids, and now with a strong possibility of Newman, moving out of the backline it leaves many spots open for mine. Just amazing the turn around of ability and responsibility. You could almost turn my list upside down and have our 2012 list. That's an amazing change imo and shows the confidence the club as placed in our young defenders.

I'm going to attempt to re-rank/order the backline again but as you can see with my last analysis, it all just playing blindfolded darts at this stage.

Here is my order based on defenders 'importance' but not necessarily form -

1.   Rance - now our best tall defender. Athletic, strong and makes good decision now. Made me eat my words  :-[
2.   Houli - best trade of the decade! Our new general in defence. Amazing foot skills and run & carry.
3.   Batchelor -  an experienced head on young shoulders. A young Newy. Wonderful foot skills. Will only get better.
4.   Grimes - our answer to Fletcher. Was amazed by his improvement but still lacks experience and size. Great player.
5.   Moore - underrated midsized defender who can play tall and small, one of our most experienced players. We will be lucky to see him in 2012.
6.   Post - Naturally skilled with great hands. Needs to step up this year and carve out a spot or its bye bye.
7.  McGuane People are going to love this but our backup tall defender is still better atm than those below.
8.   Dea - still raw but with a massive upside. Strong taller, quick and should become our shut down 'small' defender
9.   Morris - shows amazing skills, size and ability for an unproven player. Will jump straight into the team imo.
10.   Ellis - could be challenging Morris/Dea for the running defender spot. Already a great size but inexperienced.
11.   Astbury - could be anything but needs a good run with injuries and needs to push into a KP spot.
12.   Griffiths - Amazing talent with shoulder problems. Love to see him forward but has the size and speed to make it as a defender if needed. Unproven at present.
13. Connors - I'm uncertain where he will finish up playing and on ability alone he should be much further up the list but his attitude and injuries have handicapped him to date. Could be the big improver (again) in 2012.


It's amazing to see how many defenders we have dropped off this list - Thursfield, Gourdis, ORielly, Farmer and now Lids, Newy and Tuck.

Have a go yourself!
Assuming Newy and Lids move into the midfield/wings, my list isn't too different from yours Stripes. Not an easy thing to put together either. Our backline is still not settled and there's a number of defenders we are still working out if they can play at AFL level to the level required for us to develop into a top side.

1. Rance - Improved greatly last year to gain the No.1 key defender role. Still has areas in his game he needs to iron out IMO but his pros now outweight his cons which is something that wasn't the case 12 months earlier.
2. Houli - with Newy and Lids moving upfield Bachar becomes our best rebounding defender. Disciplined and determined with good footskills.
3. Batchelor - stepped into senior footy without missing a beat. As you say Stripes a mature head on young shoulders. Jake's apparently put on 8kgs over summer so hopefully he and his body can adjust quickly to carrying extra weight/muscle.
4. Grimes - unfortunately had his season ended early in the dreamtime game with that bad hammy when he was one of the finds of 2011. Pre-injury he clearly was good enough. The only question mark now is can his hammy hold up and can he return to that form in 2012.
5. Grigg - not a big fan but his best which we saw in the first third or so of last season lifts him above the unknowns and those on the way out. You'd expect a number of youngsters to go past him in time though for us to become a top side.
6. Post - needs a breakout year in 2012 but his versatility playing in defence and filling in as 2nd ruck/follower has him here.
7. Ellis - going out on a limb in January that barring injury he'll play at least 15-16 games this year and show why he went in the first round to us.
8. Morris - barring injury clearly is set for round 1 as a back-pocket. Effectively thrown in the deep end again the likes of a Garlett or Betts.
9. Moore - would be higher if fully fit, conditioned and injury-free but being on the LTIL with no guarantee of playing again has him here.
10. Astbury - After a promising debut season, 2nd year blues kicked in last year. Dave didn't seem to cope with the added bulk put on last preseason. The kneecap injury finished off a year to forget. Hopefully the 'graph' heads back in the right direction this year.
11. Dea - Jury still out for mine if he can play at this level but the coaches and selection committee are fans of Matty so he'll get games.
12. McGuane - Despite Dimma's promise of no senior guernseys being handed out and games being earned, I can't see Luke playing seniors unless there's injuries to our other key defenders. Just too many brainfades especially for a backman.   
13. Connors - needs a lightswitch to turn on above the shoulders and an injury-free run otherwise Dan will spend most of the season at Coburg before getting the chop.
14. Griffiths - unknown as a defender having played forward as a junior and in his first two years of AFL. Most likely just a temporary measure as part of his overall footy education and according to the training thread to protect his body from hard pack collisions while he returns from his shoulder injury.
15. Verrier - rookie. Unlikely to play seniors this year as he's very raw.
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the claw

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Re: Rank our Defence
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2012, 08:49:55 PM »
im having a go at this.

i think most now agree mcguane is a dud and moore is not or should not play kp.
shame about gourdis but i stand by my comments that we were better off trying him at fb chb than both mcguane and moore.

okay our tall defenders.

rance - most over rated player on our list who has much to prove. poor one on one. poor in the air. and lacks judgement. despite these things managed to play some good footy and his season was a pass.
i still think him a running defender rather than a pure defender. should play chb or third tall.does have potential.

grimes - has to be our future fb, geez the assurance in the air then compare him to rance. they are  chalk and cheese. wont play fb this yr still needs size and strength to play the role.has to get some confidence as well after a pretty nasty injury.

moore - his whole career has been riddled with injury apart from basically 08. it has always been my opinion that hes too small to play as a kpp. at 190cm he usually gives away a lot of height and at 86kg his playing weight till last yr, just not big enough. no wonder this bloke keeps on copping injuries.
 for mine in 2012 hes in competition with grimes for the third tall role. i have to say i prefer we keep putting games into grimes. the other option is we play him as an accountable running defender in a similar way to batchelor. to do the latter he needs to work on a few things. 1/motor. 2/ pace. 3/ finding a bit more of the ball. this latter option is my prefered one.

post - is a chb imo have always said it. they have pulled this bloke from pillar to post. they have to put him at chb and leave him there. one thing for sure he needs to improve. again compare this bloke in the air to rance the gulf is huge.

astbury - while i think hes primarily a forward he may make it as a defender who knows. if hes to play back hes in competition with post this yr. one thing for sure we cant play four of rance post grimes and astbury down back. come game day one of that quartet will miss out.

mcguane - well i have to question why we even kept him on the list. i would have been tempted to pay him out of his contract. sheesh they are dumb how could he get multiple yrs on his contract with his performances.

griffiths - lol at this one.  plain and simple he is not a backman. plain and simple he is a ff.

wright - a rookie. who knows with rookies. i will say though this kid is of a type that is a rarity at out club. if this kid grows a couple of cm and gets to around 100kg which is on the cards  we will have that badly needed gorilla we have been looking for down back for the last 25 yrs.
does he have the talent?  who knows ? we will find that out over the next few yrs. i tell ya what though if he shows enough at coburg this yr i would be giving him a few games later in the yr.

darrou - another rookie. a genuine tall at 190cm dont know a lot about him. seems to me he plays more like a medium where he can do a job on both mediums and talls. apparently is a v/good user of the ball and makes good decisions both in the air and with ball in hand. he may be in competition with moore and grimes atm. its highly likely he wont get a game this yr. but hey never say never.

thats it for the talls. the reality for me is until moore gets fit we have just 4 genuine tall options to start the yr.
now for the medium/smalls.

first off it seems deledio is moving to midfield. this move leaves the backhalf very short on for experience. if brett does go to midfield there is no way newman will be taken out of the backline.

newman - the skipper. a solid citizen and will be given the job of general and main deliver of the ball coming out.

morris - well at 23 we got him for a reason. has to be ready to go and only has to show a bit in the pre season to start imo. most have him pegged in as a bp and i guess we need one. but i would not be surprised to see him as our designated tagger and he starts on someone like judd or murphy.

dea - well ive had raps on this kid for a while now i think if he shows good pre season form he will start rnd one. if he does get a game i can see batchelor given a midfield role. tough runs straight lines and is accountable. is not a small hes a real good sized medium player. one other thing he does have good pace. he could well be given lock down roles this yr.

connors - simply put i have never ever rated him as a defender.  he needs to build a big motor and play as part of midfield rotations swapping up forward.a total lack of accountability and regular elementary mistakes means he is not allowed in the backline.

houli - well yep he had an okay yr but now that newman is back fit he moves to a wing and midfield rotations. wont go into his weaknesses down back as it just causes a bun fight.

ellis - again where do we fit him in. to me he is again a part of midfield rotations. wing  could swap hb with batchelor at times.

verrier - another rookie hb is a great place to introduce kids to afl i dunno i just dont see him as a hb more a mid. have seen a smidge of him and have to say he did not impress. would think 2012 is a big development yr at coburg for him.

grigg - well for me hes an outside player, for me he  just doesnt have the footskills to be coming off hb. to me he is tall running marking wingman.

lets see now my prefered back 6 for 2012. needless to say i would not play deledio out of defence but we know its going to happen.can i also say we have a lot of talented young players/defenders who need to get a game. some of those defenders are capable of playing else where batchelor houli ellis deledio grigg can all rotate thru the middle

b/  morris  -  rance - grimes.
hb/ dea - post/astbury - newman/batchelor

what the hell may as well do the rest

c/ deledio -  cotchin - ellis

hf  macdonald - riewoldt - conca/ohanlon
f/  vickery - griffiths - a maric/king

r/  maric/derickx - martin - foley

int/ houli - tuck - helbig - nahas/grigg/moore when fit./connors.
thats a squad of 30.

rank our defense well simply put young and inexperienced with question marks over the key posts. medium/smalls look very promising but again thats what it is atm promising.
one thing for sure its one area we can cop a few injuries and not be decimated.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 09:09:58 PM by the claw »