One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on March 19, 2011, 04:27:18 AM
-
No funds, no flags, say Tigers
Michael Gleeson
March 19, 2011
NO CLUB that has been in the bottom four of AFL clubs on football department spending has played in a grand final let alone won a flag in the past 10 years, according to Richmond research.
The clubs that spend least on their broad football department are consigning themselves to the reality that they will play fewer finals and almost certainly will not play in a grand final or premiership, according to the Tigers' general manager of football Craig Cameron.
He said an analysis of football department spending among clubs over the past decade has revealed the uncomfortable truth about the correlation between investment and success.
"From 2000 to 2009, 16 of the grand final spots were taken by teams that spent in the top seven for football expenditure. The only team spending in the bottom four that made the grand final was Melbourne in 2000,'' Cameron said.
"We know that last year neither Collingwood nor St Kilda was in the bottom four for expenditure so when the new figures do come out from the AFL, we will find that no team that has spent in the bottom four in the last 10 years has made a grand final.
"It tells us it's very hard to win if we don't resource properly … There is a direct correlation between what you spend in football and how successful you are."
Cameron revealed the details in a presentation at Richmond's Fighting Tiger Fund dinner on Thursday night.
The fund is designed to raise $6 million to wipe out the club's debt and properly fund the football department through a quantum leap in expenditure that seeks to break the "doom loop".
Cameron said that from 1997 - when Port Adelaide began in the competition, football became professional and the impact of the draft and salary cap began to take effect - only North Melbourne had won a flag while spending in the bottom four.
But he said North's result was an anomaly as the vast bulk of the players in that team were drawn from the under 19s and were not taken from the national draft.
In that 13-year period, Richmond had consistently been well in the bottom four for football expenditure and had played finals in one year.
"In 2009, Collingwood spent $2 million more on their football department than we did. And I am not talking expenditure on players, but expenditure on coaches, development, recruiting, psychology services.
''In the last five years, Collingwood has spent $10 million more on their football department than Richmond has," Cameron said.
Club chief executive Brendon Gale said while the club had financially stabilised in recent years, the lack of spending on football had seriously hurt the club.
"Our inability to invest in football in recent years has hurt us when investment has mattered most," Gale said.
Cameron added: "If you are a bottom-four spending club, you would expect to make the finals 4.5 times, that's less than half the number of times of the top-spending teams."
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-funds-no-flags-say-tigers-20110318-1c0n8.html
-
Tigers talk dollars & sense
Michael Gleeson
March 19, 2011
DRESSED in dinner suits and natty black and yellow ties, the group of Richmond's rich filed wide-eyed through the club's new gym.
Damien Hardwick suddenly stopped the group. He had something to say and it was not going to wait. His interruption was unscripted as he called on the gathering, fresh from having photos taken with the playing group out on the oval, to turn and look across Punt Road to the Royal Hotel.
The hotel, now more famous for topless women, was where, in more salubrious times, it all began. It was the place that the very idea for the club was born over a few drinks. Hardwick told those assembled that, over a few more drinks, the night ahead would be as significant in the history of the club as that very first one. It would be the night the Tigers decided not just to exist but to win. It was the night those present could make history for Richmond - without having worn the jumper.
When Hardwick addresses a group there is an undercurrent of menace in his speech that stems from his passion. Those before him were on notice.
They had to that point already been delivered what Brendon Gale had described - borrowing from Al Gore - as the inconvenient truths of football. The message was simple. The Tigers had to compete off the field to be able to compete on it and they couldn't succeed without the help of those present.
Gale and more pertinently the club's general manager of football Craig Cameron had presented a sobering potted history of the club. Cameron also offered a chronicle of the rest of the competition that was a cold spoon to the excitement of being in the inner sanctum.
The people present were the Tigers with bite. Many of them being successful in business, they were offered the situation in stuff business terms by Cameron. He also recalled for them how, seven years earlier, Brad Ottens told officials he wanted to be traded to Geelong, how pathetically ill-equipped the club had been to deal with it and consequently how badly they squandered the moment.
"We didn't have three of the most important people to make the right decisions. We didn't have a list manager assessing Geelong's talent and the broader list, we had no opposition manager, we had a recruiting manager but he was told in June your services aren't required next year," he said.
"So in the end the club made the decision that we take the two picks at the top of the draft. Now that's not an unreasonable decision. But if we look at the 2004 draft we had five selections in the top 20 in the national draft. Only one of them is still at the club and that's Brett Deledio. He is already a dual best-and-fairest winner, he is 24 and about to play the best footy of his career and he should have his four mates with him from the top 20 of that draft.''
The next year the club squeezed even tighter and cut another $1.2 million from the footy department. A new recruiting manager was put on. He was part-time. His day job was as a phys-ed teacher at Brighton Grammar and he coached that school's first 18 on 14 winter weekends of the footy season, when every other serious recruiter was out looking at prospective players. From that year's draft, no player remains at the club.
"But as an example of what investment can return, the next year we employed Francis Jackson full-time as our recruiting officer that year for the first time. And in that national draft he produced Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards, Daniel Connors, and Andrew Collins. Now Andrew has left us to go to Carlton but we got Shaun Grigg in return,'' Cameron said. ''There are four AFL players from that small investment.
"In 2007, Collingwood spent $750,000 on recruiting. Hawthorn $490,000 and we spent $145,000. So we expect the same result from our recruiting area as a club spending five times more than we do. It just doesn't make sense."
These were not matters of ancient history. As Richmond was cutting its budget by $1.2 million its loathed opponent Collingwood moved into a state-of-the-art facility across Swan Street.
Cameron made the case compelling. Only those clubs which have money and means - and invest it in the right way in first finding the right players then supporting them with the right coaches and facilities - can win flags. Richmond was a mile off those clubs. Without a quantum leap in funding the Tigers could never hope to win a flag. The bottom half of the eight would be a good year for them.
In the past five years Collingwood had spent $10 million more on its football team than Richmond, Cameron said. Unsurprisingly then, the Pies had just won a flag after repeated top-four finishes. Richmond, meanwhile, had been in the finals just once in the past 16 years and had not been involved in successive finals campaigns since 1974-75.
The business case alone was convincing but Hardwick, Kevin Bartlett and Trent Cotchin, in strong videotaped pleas, did the selling. Bartlett, a face not just of Richmond but in returning and being the guest speaker and head of the Fighting Tiger Fund, was a potent symbol of the newly re-unified club. He spoke movingly of Richmond's golden era and connected modern players with champions past. He spoke of how Tiger champions had been let down by the club's inability to understand what it needed to be successful but how they had never let the club down.
One of those was Matthew Richardson, the most loved of players who was in the room as an MC. Another was Gale, in the room now as CEO, delivering his plan to deliver a flag to the club he could not achieve from the ruck. Another was Neville Crowe, the man who had done as much as anyone in the Tigers' history to save the club, but who now through an "unscrupulous business deal" found himself on hard times, in the room and shocked to be informed that the club would hold a special fund-raising night to help ease his financial pain. "We look after our own," president Gary March said, which was a welcome change for a club more renowned for eating its own.
These people demanded that the club finally commit to doing what they needed to to win a flag. For once, that plea for commitment was not a demand of the playing group but those who go to bed dreaming of wearing the jumper on the ground.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-talk-dollars--sense-20110318-1c0mx.html
-
(http://images.theage.com.au/2011/03/18/2240433/art_svGALE-420x0.jpg)
Richmond chief executive Brendon Gale spells out the link between a lack of funds in the football department and no premierships. Photo: Justin McManus
(http://images.theage.com.au/2011/03/18/2240446/art_svHARDTRUTH-420x0.jpg)
Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
-
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow). Its an arms race and money is the key factor. The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs. Those with pokies are raking it in. This will lead to an unbalanced competition. If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp. How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.
The AFL must act.
== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year. Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.
-
The presentations on Thursday night really hit home
Grim reality was given = Kudos to the club in not holding back
In today's HUN, my mate Ralphy highlights how much extra revenues the Club (conservatively) estimates it can generate once we starting making finals... top 2 finishes estimate is over $6mil a year in sponsorship, membership, merchandise & attendances...
-
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow). Its an arms race and money is the key factor. The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs. Those with pokies are raking it in. This will lead to an unbalanced competition. If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp. How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.
The AFL must act.
== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year. Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.
Its a problem that we havent been able to find a replacement venue for the Royal Oak. Finding a new establishment should be a priority IMHO preferably in Richmond.
-
Do they have poker machines at the social club?
-
Hope not.
-
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow). Its an arms race and money is the key factor. The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs. Those with pokies are raking it in. This will lead to an unbalanced competition. If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp. How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.
The AFL must act.
== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year. Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.
And they stole a Richmond supporters home,The Royal Oak.
Now they have Pratt's Mrs in there signing cheques.
Gees that club gets me so angry.
On a positive note ,it just makes you appreciate Matthew Richardson even more and blokes like Neville Crowe.
The truth is ,we were so succesful in that 67-80 period,we thought we didn't need to move a muscle,that things would happen ,while the rest of the league was hungry and plotting their revenge against us.
Carlton have cheated the system,their chip on the shoulder is that big.
We should come out and say we are a club of integrity,a club for the person ,no matter how rich or poor.
We will not be using pokies to finance our club.
I reckon more people would sign on knowing we aren't using people.
It's born out of love for the club.
-
yes mrs pratt is on the carlscum board
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-welcome-pratt-20110318-1c0l8.html
I wonder how "business acumen" she has, or is it all like her ex husbands, corruption and bribery.
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/corruption-behind-pratt-wealth-report-20100725-10q1u.html
-
yes mrs pratt is on the carlscum board
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-welcome-pratt-20110318-1c0l8.html
I wonder how "business acumen" she has, or is it all like her ex husbands, corruption and bribery.
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/corruption-behind-pratt-wealth-report-20100725-10q1u.html
Free botox and plastic surgery for all at Carlton. :help
I'm sure a few old Tigers like Ricky McLean, Neil Balme and Robbie McGhie would provide plastic surgey free of charge. ;D
-
Do they have poker machines at the social club?
Nope
And wont be
-
Looks like some of our friends on other forums are a bit upset that their hard earned is gonna be spent on developing the football department and not go towards the debt reduction. Suck it in idiots. Its a 50/50 split and instead of behaving like a pack of squealing whingers, just get in behind the club and support it. You donated your money now leave the club to work out what theyre gonna do with the money. A small section of our supporters have lost the plot on this and theyre being egged on by one or two individuals. Its just disgraceful. >:(
-
Agreed, if we wait to spend more on the football department then we are just going to keep holding back the team from moving up the ladder
I thought the focus was purely on the debt reduction, but when they mentioned at the gala that it was to be a 50-50 split I instantly recognised that was a far better way of doing it.
Think of it this way, if we raise the $6m and $3m is taken off the debt, then we instantly have only 1/3 of the interest payments we did before. As such that saving can go further towards paying down the debt and any profit we may can pretty much wipe the rest out.
-
Most of us in here have made a contribution but lets be honest if you chuck in $20 or $50 or $100 or whatever - it doesnt give you the right to dictate how you want them to spend the money. Some of the stuff I have read today Is just disgraceful. If those people dont like how there money is gonna be spent they should ask for a refund. Im sure the club will give them back there money as it only represents about 0.000001% of the total if that.
-
Exactly its a Richmond fighting fund it goes to Richmond.
For instance if you donate to the cancer coucil would it matter if someone told you the moneys went to prostate cancer research skin cancer research or breast cancer research.
Some people just want to complain about everything. :wallywink
-
Think of it this way, if we raise the $6m and $3m is taken off the debt, then we instantly have only 1/3 of the interest payments we did before. As such that saving can go further towards paying down the debt and any profit we may can pretty much wipe the rest out.
BINGO
-
The 50/50 split makes sense this way - (i) we'll still pay down on the debt with one half of the money to a level where the repayments become small and so are no longer restricting and denying footy dept. spending and (ii) we can pump in money immediately with the other half to give the footy dept. now a major boost. Obviously it would be great if the FTF raises more money than expected and we can wipe out the debt completely but that seems unrealistic given we would need to raise $8m to be able to do that. From what Benny Gale said we're hoping to raise $4m by the end of the year and then use the 2012 membership campaign to repeat the current process and raise hopefully another $2m by the start of the 2012 season.
-
(http://images.theage.com.au/2011/03/18/2240446/art_svHARDTRUTH-420x0.jpg)
Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....
I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.
Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...
Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.
- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.
- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.
- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.
- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).
If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it ;).
It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.
And that ends my late night rant! ;D
-
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....
I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.
On Thusday night they didn't
It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.
And that ends my late night rant! ;D
Repeat - no they did not and do not blame the lack of funding for all of the mistakes of the past.
However there is no doubt the lack on funding has contributed to it and all the stats they put up on Thursday night were used to highlight that...
-
(http://images.theage.com.au/2011/03/18/2240446/art_svHARDTRUTH-420x0.jpg)
Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....
I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.
Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...
Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.
- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.
- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.
- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.
- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).
If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it ;).
It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.
And that ends my late night rant! ;D
Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup
-
(http://images.theage.com.au/2011/03/18/2240446/art_svHARDTRUTH-420x0.jpg)
Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....
I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.
Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...
Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.
- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.
- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.
- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.
- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).
If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it ;).
It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.
And that ends my late night rant! ;D
Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup
Sorry but you are cherry picking comments made on the night to stick the boot in
In no way was lack of funds used as an excuse for all the failures. They admitted that they had made also mistakes along the way but they were not looking to point the finger.
-
I can see a direct link between how a lack of funds can restrict you from employing staff/making an educated decision on nearly all your points MT.
Yes, there is no doubt in the past that it doesn't purely fall on lack of funds, and even when we have no debt and are investing more into the footy dept. we are not guaranteed success. It does put us in a position to challenge though! :thumbsup
I think once we have the people in place (recruiters, scouts, psyches, opposition coaches etc.) that Collingwood does then the mistakes of the past will not appear again to haunt us ;)
-
Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup
That's a worry ;D
Sorry but you are cherry picking comments made on the night to stick the boot in
In no way was lack of funds used as an excuse for all the failures. They admitted that they had made also mistakes along the way but they were not looking to point the finger.
Not cherry picking at all Infamy as those points were off the top of the my head; nor hindsight either as those criticisms were made by me on here at the time each of those decisions were being made. If Craig took responsiblity for the poor list management decisions and lack of planning and lack of exploiting the draft system during his time so far and the Club admitted our whole philosophy towards recruiting was totally wrong (rather than just saying we made poor selections due to lack of money and resources) then fine. That wasn't reported.
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
-
MT - I think you'll find they are more than aware that poor decisions is the underlying catylist of the majority of our woes which have then made us so financially vulnerable as to restrict our future decison making. So in other words the stupid mistakes of the past have handicapped everything else we have done since this point. It's been like a line of dominoes with one stuff up leading to another until, even with the right people or best intentions, we are still dragged down by the financial anchors of yesterday.
This is why this whole Fighting Tiger Fund so appeals to me. Not only are we generating the money we need to bring us up to a standard where we are competitive offield but I feel we have the right people to then use those assets to properly turn it into onfield success. We are doing everything the hard way, ensuring develop the players properly and build our list depth correctly. There is no rush to win individual games, no panic to succeed now or else! The pressure is off the coach, the administration are realistic at last and the supporters are appreciating the honesty and leadership of the club.
All of this means positive change. All of this means possible future success. We are not getting rid of a debt only to have to reach into our pockets again in the near future. We are donating to give us the backing to make a difference and I believe that Benny Gale in particular has the realistic business nouse to finally give us the off-field strength to ensure we are no longer handicapped and no longer have excuses.
This is about undersanding the errors of the past, fixing what can be fixed and placing ourselves into a position where we can finally make the informed right decisions to be ultimately successful! :gotigers
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
Which site? I just posted a long winded wakeup call on PRE if that is the one your referring too... :shh ;)
-
If Craig took responsiblity for the poor list management decisions and lack of planning and lack of exploiting the draft system during his time so far and the Club admitted our whole philosophy towards recruiting was totally wrong (rather than just saying we made poor selections due to lack of money and resources) then fine.
If CC admitted that he'd get fired :-X
;D
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.
Just my opinion
cheers
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.
Just my opinion
cheers
Everyones entitled to their opinion and I respect that and I dont have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people demanding or making demands of the club because they donated some money. Big deal, I donated, you donated, lots of us have donated, but thats the end of it, let Brendon Gale work out how the money will be spent. Some of the stuff thats been written the last 2 or 3 days is just unbelievable.
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.
Just my opinion
cheers
Everyones entitled to their opinion and I respect that and I dont have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people demanding or making demands of the club because they donated some money. Big deal, I donated, you donated, lots of us have donated, but thats the end of it, let Brendon Gale work out how the money will be spent. Some of the stuff thats been written the last 2 or 3 days is just unbelievable.
yeah fair enough - i havent seen it but making demands and kicking up a stink abt it is ridiculous
-
And I ask this question
The players who donated money! They invested into their futures at Richmond! Dont they deserve the club to invest in them right away? Those blokes invested what was it $125,000 ... what do you reckon our players would think if suddenly the 50/50 split becomes the lets pay off the $4.5 million first and then after that we'll put the money into the footy department. The players would be disgusted. Theres way more stakeholders whose investment is way more important than that of the rank and file. What about the private group who invested over a million bucks into the fund. That fund was heavily supported by David Mandie whose been one of the great Richmond benefactors ever, he probably reckons that he and his friends invested in the 50/50 split ... what do you tell him if this small group of people on the other site continue to pressure the club. What do you tell the players - Sorry guys we'll invest in late 2012 and the improvements will become apparent years from now. Its just ridiculous. The people who are making demands and the people complaining should be ashamed of themselves IMHO.
-
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.
Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.
agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.
Just my opinion
cheers
Except the other way we save $100-125k per season in interest and get $1.25 million on the football department straight away. That's far more than the couple of extra development coaches you suggest. It will go towards resurfacing Punt Road Oval, paying for development coaches and recruitment staff immediately, not in a few years.
-
I know I'd prefer more recruiters on the ground now, before all the state and junior leagues start their seasons, than pay all the debt off first and hire them in October.
Same goes for development coaches.
Has the club said what they are likely to spend the clams on first?
-
I know I'd prefer more recruiters on the ground now, before all the state and junior leagues start their seasons, than pay all the debt off first and hire them in October.
Same goes for development coaches.
Has the club said what they are likely to spend the clams on first?
:yep
-
This is a letter from Benny Gale that has been posted up on PRE in response to what the club intends to use the FTF for. I was going to post it here but thought this might be a no no so therefore the link. Interesting reading :bow
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42677.345 (http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=42677.345)
-
And the CEO has rightly told how it is. Now everyone should just accept it and get on with the job of helping the club. :cheers
-
Nice and simple - easy to follow, may e he could coach as well!!!
-
Sweet :thumbsup
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q164/rosy_pre/Richmond.png)
-
So from that table....
| $2,000,000...... | $4,000,000...... | $6,000,000 |
| | | |
| Reduce Debt | $1,000,000 | $2,000,000 | $3,000,000 |
| Oval | $1,000,000 | $1,000,000 | $1,000,000 |
| Total Player Payments | | $500,000 | $500,000 |
| Reserves Side | | $500,000 | $500,000 |
| High Performance | | | $1,000,000 |
So if we can generate the $6m target by April next year then we'll probably be carrying a $1m debt in 2012; $500k debt in 2013; and then be debt free by 2014 as planned.
The $4m target is planned for December this year so we should know by season's end how close we are to that target and whether will go alone with our own VFL side in 2012. The final lodgement of our 2012 TPP is in December also so we'll know if we can "pre-pay" players to free up salary cap to exploit free agency which is coming in at the end of the 2012 season in readiness for 2013 and beyond.
The $2m target has already been achieved so our debt is down to $3.5m already and the reconfiguration of the oval can presumably be put out to tender in readiness for work to start at season's end.
-
The $4m target is planned for December this year so we should know by season's end how close we are to that target and whether will go alone with our own VFL side in 2012. The final lodgement of our 2012 TPP is in December also so we'll know if we can "pre-pay" players to free up salary cap to exploit free agency which is coming in at the end of the 2012 season in readiness for 2013 and beyond.
I reckon December is leaving it far too late to determine if we can field our own VFL side in 2012.
For one I cannot see the VFL (or whatever they are called come Dec ;D) being prepared to wait that long to know the structure of the Comp. They would start planning for 2012 around mid year.
Also as a club I think we we would needed longer than 3 months to set up. Eg finding top up players (under the rules we must have a certain number of non VFL players), finding the extra staff req'd (trainers etc)
We need to get this right on all levels as the key of haviong this side is developing our cubs
So unless we are in position to say "Yay or Nay" by say July-Aug (absolute latest) then I can't see us having our own VFL side in 2012
-
Ok so we should have already paid 1m off the debt and locked in the oval upgrade.
Leaves us with 300k in the fund.
So we need to knock another 700k into the FTF in approx the next 4 months to confirm the reserves side for next year, and 500k off debt.
Then work on another 1m in the following months leading up to December to get us the cash for the TPP in time, and another 500k off the debt.
Then 2m over the off-season ending with another gala type night before next season kicks off to get us across the line.
That sound reasonable? :o ;D
-
I can't see us fielding our own reserves until the 2013 season at the earliest
-
I can't see us fielding our own reserves until the 2013 season at the earliest
Coburg Coach has been appointed for two years.
So 2013 at the earliest sound right.
:cheers
-
Any reason why we can't generate 4 million by august/sept? Or am I being too optimistic?
-
I can't see us fielding our own reserves until the 2013 season at the earliest
Coburg Coach has been appointed for two years.
So 2013 at the earliest sound right.
:cheers
That does seem a bit too coincidental
I think just logistically we won't be able to get things in place for the 2012 season. Resurfacing of Punt Road Oval, getting the license and everything else required in setting up a new team.
-
I can't see us fielding our own reserves until the 2013 season at the earliest
Coburg Coach has been appointed for two years.
So 2013 at the earliest sound right.
:cheers
That does seem a bit too coincidental
I think just logistically we won't be able to get things in place for the 2012 season. Resurfacing of Punt Road Oval, getting the license and everything else required in setting up a new team.
Makes a lot of sense :thumbsup Just hope we get a move on with such developmental tools in case we are again left playing catch up.
-
Coburg won't go under the day we open our own reserves team will they? It will take a year of them in the comp first surely? Or can we not play in the VFL against the Coburg Tigers? ???
-
Think merger
:outtahere
-
I fail to see what the length of Adam Potter's contract has to do with an RFC Reserves side.
The PRO resurfacing will be complete before R1, 2012. It will only be out of commission for the pre-season.
Top-up players would be recruited at the same time as other VFL clubs, Oct-Dec.
Coaching staff ;)
The only real issues I see for a 2012 start are cash and a license. Two pretty big issues for sure.
But the club should be aiming for 2012. Another year of our players running around in the Burger 2's is another year of development lost.
-
I fail to see what the length of Adam Potter's contract has to do with an RFC Reserves side.
The PRO resurfacing will be complete before R1, 2012. It will only be out of commission for the pre-season.
Top-up players would be recruited at the same time as other VFL clubs, Oct-Dec.
Coaching staff ;)
The only real issues I see for a 2012 start are cash and a license. Two pretty big issues for sure.
But the club should be aiming for 2012. Another year of our players running around in the Burger 2's is another year of development lost.
I seriously doubt that the resurfacing will be done by Round 1 2012
-
if they start in the first week of september it should be well done by then, it will just be a matter if the new grass has taken or not, all depending on weather or course.
-
I fail to see what the length of Adam Potter's contract has to do with an RFC Reserves side.
Beat me to it gerk :thumbsup
The PRO resurfacing will be complete before R1, 2012. It will only be out of commission for the pre-season.
Top-up players would be recruited at the same time as other VFL clubs, Oct-Dec.
Coaching staff ;)
The only real issues I see for a 2012 start are cash and a license. Two pretty big issues for sure.
But the club should be aiming for 2012. Another year of our players running around in the Burger 2's is another year of development lost.
The re-surfacng may be complete but the ground would need sign off from the league
Agree about the singing of top-up players but as you mention the biggy is making sure we have the cash. We need that before we are in a position to sign anyone
I don't see coaches as being an issue but we would certainly need extra trainers, physios, volunteers for stats etc.
As I said before, if we are going to do this we need to do it properly = No SHORT CUTS
IMHO take an extra year may just be the right way to go to ensure we get it right :thumbsup
-
I fail to see what the length of Adam Potter's contract has to do with an RFC Reserves side.
Beat me to it gerk :thumbsup
Depends who the contract is with.
:shh
-
Depends who the contract is with. :shh
Correct it does and considering that Adam Potter is contracted by the Coburg Football Club his contract has zippo to do with whether the RFC fields its own VFL side
-
Depends who the contract is with. :shh
Correct it does and considering that Adam Potter is contracted by the Coburg Football Club his contract has zippo to do with whether the RFC fields its own VFL side
You sure about that?
:shh
-
I seriously doubt that the resurfacing will be done by Round 1 2012
That's your prob mate, you're always so serious :)
It's been mentioned previously by club officials that resurfacing would only take a pre-season and we'd have to train elsewhere until the start of the season so the new grass could establish itself. Weather is the only thing that could possibly hold it up - that and RFC sitting on it's hands.
EDIT: What Al said :thumbsup
-
You sure about that?
:shh
C'mon bum whisperer, out with it man!
-
Depends who the contract is with. :shh
Correct it does and considering that Adam Potter is contracted by the Coburg Football Club his contract has zippo to do with whether the RFC fields its own VFL side
You sure about that?
:shh
Yep absolutely ;) ;)
:thumbsup
:shh
;D