Author Topic: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)  (Read 7547 times)

Offline one-eyed

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No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« on: March 19, 2011, 04:27:18 AM »
No funds, no flags, say Tigers
Michael Gleeson
March 19, 2011


NO CLUB that has been in the bottom four of AFL clubs on football department spending has played in a grand final let alone won a flag in the past 10 years, according to Richmond research.

The clubs that spend least on their broad football department are consigning themselves to the reality that they will play fewer finals and almost certainly will not play in a grand final or premiership, according to the Tigers' general manager of football Craig Cameron.

He said an analysis of football department spending among clubs over the past decade has revealed the uncomfortable truth about the correlation between investment and success.

"From 2000 to 2009, 16 of the grand final spots were taken by teams that spent in the top seven for football expenditure. The only team spending in the bottom four that made the grand final was Melbourne in 2000,'' Cameron said.

"We know that last year neither Collingwood nor St Kilda was in the bottom four for expenditure so when the new figures do come out from the AFL, we will find that no team that has spent in the bottom four in the last 10 years has made a grand final.

"It tells us it's very hard to win if we don't resource properly … There is a direct correlation between what you spend in football and how successful you are."

Cameron revealed the details in a presentation at Richmond's Fighting Tiger Fund dinner on Thursday night.

The fund is designed to raise $6 million to wipe out the club's debt and properly fund the football department through a quantum leap in expenditure that seeks to break the "doom loop".

Cameron said that from 1997 - when Port Adelaide began in the competition, football became professional and the impact of the draft and salary cap began to take effect - only North Melbourne had won a flag while spending in the bottom four.

But he said North's result was an anomaly as the vast bulk of the players in that team were drawn from the under 19s and were not taken from the national draft.

In that 13-year period, Richmond had consistently been well in the bottom four for football expenditure and had played finals in one year.

"In 2009, Collingwood spent $2 million more on their football department than we did. And I am not talking expenditure on players, but expenditure on coaches, development, recruiting, psychology services.

''In the last five years, Collingwood has spent $10 million more on their football department than Richmond has," Cameron said.

Club chief executive Brendon Gale said while the club had financially stabilised in recent years, the lack of spending on football had seriously hurt the club.

"Our inability to invest in football in recent years has hurt us when investment has mattered most," Gale said.

Cameron added: "If you are a bottom-four spending club, you would expect to make the finals 4.5 times, that's less than half the number of times of the top-spending teams."

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-funds-no-flags-say-tigers-20110318-1c0n8.html

Offline one-eyed

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 04:30:19 AM »
Tigers talk dollars & sense
Michael Gleeson
March 19, 2011


DRESSED in dinner suits and natty black and yellow ties, the group of Richmond's rich filed wide-eyed through the club's new gym.

Damien Hardwick suddenly stopped the group. He had something to say and it was not going to wait. His interruption was unscripted as he called on the gathering, fresh from having photos taken with the playing group out on the oval, to turn and look across Punt Road to the Royal Hotel.

The hotel, now more famous for topless women, was where, in more salubrious times, it all began. It was the place that the very idea for the club was born over a few drinks. Hardwick told those assembled that, over a few more drinks, the night ahead would be as significant in the history of the club as that very first one. It would be the night the Tigers decided not just to exist but to win. It was the night those present could make history for Richmond - without having worn the jumper.

When Hardwick addresses a group there is an undercurrent of menace in his speech that stems from his passion. Those before him were on notice.

They had to that point already been delivered what Brendon Gale had described - borrowing from Al Gore - as the inconvenient truths of football. The message was simple. The Tigers had to compete off the field to be able to compete on it and they couldn't succeed without the help of those present.

Gale and more pertinently the club's general manager of football Craig Cameron had presented a sobering potted history of the club. Cameron also offered a chronicle of the rest of the competition that was a cold spoon to the excitement of being in the inner sanctum.

The people present were the Tigers with bite. Many of them being successful in business, they were offered the situation in frank business terms by Cameron. He also recalled for them how, seven years earlier, Brad Ottens told officials he wanted to be traded to Geelong, how pathetically ill-equipped the club had been to deal with it and consequently how badly they squandered the moment.

"We didn't have three of the most important people to make the right decisions. We didn't have a list manager assessing Geelong's talent and the broader list, we had no opposition manager, we had a recruiting manager but he was told in June your services aren't required next year," he said.

"So in the end the club made the decision that we take the two picks at the top of the draft. Now that's not an unreasonable decision. But if we look at the 2004 draft we had five selections in the top 20 in the national draft. Only one of them is still at the club and that's Brett Deledio. He is already a dual best-and-fairest winner, he is 24 and about to play the best footy of his career and he should have his four mates with him from the top 20 of that draft.''

The next year the club squeezed even tighter and cut another $1.2 million from the footy department. A new recruiting manager was put on. He was part-time. His day job was as a phys-ed teacher at Brighton Grammar and he coached that school's first 18 on 14 winter weekends of the footy season, when every other serious recruiter was out looking at prospective players. From that year's draft, no player remains at the club.

"But as an example of what investment can return, the next year we employed Francis Jackson full-time as our recruiting officer that year for the first time. And in that national draft he produced Jack Riewoldt, Shane Edwards, Daniel Connors, and Andrew Collins. Now Andrew has left us to go to Carlton but we got Shaun Grigg in return,'' Cameron said. ''There are four AFL players from that small investment.

"In 2007, Collingwood spent $750,000 on recruiting. Hawthorn $490,000 and we spent $145,000. So we expect the same result from our recruiting area as a club spending five times more than we do. It just doesn't make sense."

These were not matters of ancient history. As Richmond was cutting its budget by $1.2 million its loathed opponent Collingwood moved into a state-of-the-art facility across Swan Street.

Cameron made the case compelling. Only those clubs which have money and means - and invest it in the right way in first finding the right players then supporting them with the right coaches and facilities - can win flags. Richmond was a mile off those clubs. Without a quantum leap in funding the Tigers could never hope to win a flag. The bottom half of the eight would be a good year for them.

In the past five years Collingwood had spent $10 million more on its football team than Richmond, Cameron said. Unsurprisingly then, the Pies had just won a flag after repeated top-four finishes. Richmond, meanwhile, had been in the finals just once in the past 16 years and had not been involved in successive finals campaigns since 1974-75.

The business case alone was convincing but Hardwick, Kevin Bartlett and Trent Cotchin, in strong videotaped pleas, did the selling. Bartlett, a face not just of Richmond but in returning and being the guest speaker and head of the Fighting Tiger Fund, was a potent symbol of the newly re-unified club. He spoke movingly of Richmond's golden era and connected modern players with champions past. He spoke of how Tiger champions had been let down by the club's inability to understand what it needed to be successful but how they had never let the club down.

One of those was Matthew Richardson, the most loved of players who was in the room as an MC. Another was Gale, in the room now as CEO, delivering his plan to deliver a flag to the club he could not achieve from the ruck. Another was Neville Crowe, the man who had done as much as anyone in the Tigers' history to save the club, but who now through an "unscrupulous business deal" found himself on hard times, in the room and shocked to be informed that the club would hold a special fund-raising night to help ease his financial pain. "We look after our own," president Gary March said, which was a welcome change for a club more renowned for eating its own.

These people demanded that the club finally commit to doing what they needed to to win a flag. For once, that plea for commitment was not a demand of the playing group but those who go to bed dreaming of wearing the jumper on the ground.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/tigers-talk-dollars--sense-20110318-1c0mx.html

Offline one-eyed

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 04:32:27 AM »

Richmond chief executive Brendon Gale spells out the link between a lack of funds in the football department and no premierships. Photo: Justin McManus


Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus

Offline tdy

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 10:58:57 AM »
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow).  Its an arms race and money is the key factor.  The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs.  Those with pokies are raking it in.  This will lead to an unbalanced competition.  If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp.  How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.

The AFL must act.

== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year.  Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 12:01:35 PM »
The presentations on Thursday night really hit home

Grim reality was given = Kudos to the club in not holding back

In today's HUN, my mate Ralphy highlights how much extra revenues the Club (conservatively) estimates it can generate once we starting making finals... top 2 finishes estimate is over $6mil a year in sponsorship, membership, merchandise & attendances...

 
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from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 12:11:10 PM »
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow).  Its an arms race and money is the key factor.  The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs.  Those with pokies are raking it in.  This will lead to an unbalanced competition.  If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp.  How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.

The AFL must act.

== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year.  Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.

Its a problem that we havent been able to find a replacement venue for the Royal Oak. Finding a new establishment should be a priority IMHO preferably in Richmond.

Offline Mopsy

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 12:53:26 PM »
Do they have poker machines at the social club?

Offline Penelope

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 01:06:18 PM »
Hope not.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline smasha

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 01:15:02 PM »
The truth hurts but its all there in black and white (or yellow).  Its an arms race and money is the key factor.  The AFL seriously need to take over the gambling arrangements of the clubs.  Those with pokies are raking it in.  This will lead to an unbalanced competition.  If I remember correctly Carlton just purchased approx 250 poker machines, this will continue the unbalancing of the comp.  How much this means in actual profit to carlton I don't know but I have seen quoted each machine can make up to 200K in revenue a year.

The AFL must act.

== addendum ==
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/pokies-deal-sparks-afl-clubs-feud-20100512-uy3z.html
each machine is expected to make 47500 a year.  Carlton has an $11 million dollar a year revenue stream from pokies.

And they stole a Richmond supporters home,The Royal Oak.

Now they have Pratt's Mrs in there signing cheques.

Gees that club gets me so angry.

On a positive note ,it just makes you appreciate Matthew Richardson even more and blokes like Neville Crowe.

The truth is ,we were so succesful in that 67-80 period,we thought we didn't need to move a muscle,that things would happen ,while the rest of the league was hungry and plotting their revenge against us.

Carlton have cheated the system,their chip on the shoulder is that big.

We should come out and say we are a club of integrity,a club for the person ,no matter how rich or poor.

We will not be using pokies to finance our club.

I reckon more people would sign on knowing we aren't using people.

It's born out of love for the club.

Offline tdy

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 02:45:36 PM »
yes mrs pratt is on the carlscum board

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-welcome-pratt-20110318-1c0l8.html

I wonder how "business acumen" she has, or is it all like her ex husbands, corruption and bribery.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/corruption-behind-pratt-wealth-report-20100725-10q1u.html
 

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 10:26:30 PM »
yes mrs pratt is on the carlscum board

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-welcome-pratt-20110318-1c0l8.html

I wonder how "business acumen" she has, or is it all like her ex husbands, corruption and bribery.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/corruption-behind-pratt-wealth-report-20100725-10q1u.html
 


Free botox and plastic surgery for all at Carlton. :help

I'm sure a few old Tigers like Ricky McLean, Neil Balme and Robbie McGhie would provide plastic surgey free of charge. ;D

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 09:50:32 AM »
Do they have poker machines at the social club?

Nope

And wont be
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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 10:23:39 AM »
Looks like some of our friends on other forums are a bit upset that their hard earned is gonna be spent on developing the football department and not go towards the debt reduction. Suck it in idiots. Its a 50/50 split and instead of behaving like a pack of squealing whingers, just get in behind the club and support it. You donated your money now leave the club to work out what theyre gonna do with the money. A small section of our supporters have lost the plot on this and theyre being egged on by one or two individuals. Its just disgraceful. >:(

Offline Infamy

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 12:20:01 PM »
Agreed, if we wait to spend more on the football department then we are just going to keep holding back the team from moving up the ladder
I thought the focus was purely on the debt reduction, but when they mentioned at the gala that it was to be a 50-50 split I instantly recognised that was a far better way of doing it.

Think of it this way, if we raise the $6m and $3m is taken off the debt, then we instantly have only 1/3 of the interest payments we did before. As such that saving can go further towards paying down the debt and any profit we may can pretty much wipe the rest out.

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 12:37:56 PM »
Most of us in here have made a contribution but lets be honest if you chuck in $20 or $50 or $100 or whatever - it doesnt give you the right to dictate how you want them to spend the money. Some of the stuff I have read today Is just disgraceful. If those people dont like how there money is gonna be spent they should ask for a refund. Im sure the club will give them back there money as it only represents about 0.000001% of the total if that.