Author Topic: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)  (Read 7552 times)

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 12:42:56 PM »
Exactly its a Richmond fighting fund it goes to Richmond.

For instance if you donate to the cancer coucil would it matter if someone told you the moneys went to prostate cancer research skin cancer research or breast cancer research.

Some people just want to complain about everything.  :wallywink

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 07:04:52 PM »
Think of it this way, if we raise the $6m and $3m is taken off the debt, then we instantly have only 1/3 of the interest payments we did before. As such that saving can go further towards paying down the debt and any profit we may can pretty much wipe the rest out.

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Offline mightytiges

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2011, 12:11:49 AM »
The 50/50 split makes sense this way - (i) we'll still pay down on the debt with one half of the money to a level where the repayments become small and so are no longer restricting and denying footy dept. spending and (ii) we can pump in money immediately with the other half to give the footy dept. now a major boost. Obviously it would be great if the FTF raises more money than expected and we can wipe out the debt completely but that seems unrealistic given we would need to raise $8m to be able to do that. From what Benny Gale said we're hoping to raise $4m by the end of the year and then use the 2012 membership campaign to repeat the current process and raise hopefully another $2m by the start of the 2012 season.


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Offline mightytiges

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2011, 01:53:13 AM »
Quote

Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....

I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.

Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...

Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.

- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.

- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.

- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.

- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).

If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it  ;).  

It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.  

And that ends my late night rant!  ;D
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 04:41:39 AM by mightytiges »
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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2011, 06:56:52 AM »
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....

I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.


On Thusday night they didn't

Quote
It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.  

And that ends my late night rant!  ;D

Repeat - no they did not and do not blame the lack of funding for all of the mistakes of the past.

However there is no doubt the lack on funding has contributed to it and all the stats they put up on Thursday night were used to highlight that...
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

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jackstar is back again

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2011, 07:48:09 AM »
Quote

Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....

I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.

Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...

Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.

- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.

- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.

- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.

- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).

If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it  ;).  

It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.  

And that ends my late night rant!  ;D

Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup

Offline Infamy

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2011, 08:21:55 AM »
Quote

Craig Cameron and the grim message from recent times. Photo: Justin McManus
Now for my one and only "criticism" lol....

I hope we aren't just blaming lack of funds entirely for poor onfield performances and poor recruiting because IMO that is way too simplistic and in some ways a cop out for want of a better phrase as it is avoiding the whole picture of why we have failed over and over again.

Fair enough to link grand final appearances and premierships to footy dept. expenditure as we are then talking about reaching the elite of the competition. However, what has made us the laughing stock for so long is we couldn't even scrape into the finals once in a while in a era where half the sides can make them. Sorry but 2 finals appearances in 27 years isn't a result of lack of funds. It is purely and simply a result of the Club's own incompetence year after year from the board down to admin, head of footy dept., recruiters, coaching, etc ...

Even just looking at a few examples from the past 4 years:
- It was not lack of funds that meant we traded a top 20 pick for a dud like Jordan McMahon who was playing ressies at Werribee at the time.

- It was not lack of funds that meant we had just 2 picks in the top 50 of both the 2007 and 2008 drafts when we were supposedly still in rebuild mode. The 2008 draft was under Craig's reign as list manager. No point claiming the 2006 draft was a success thanks to making FJ full-time when the following two drafts returned so few picks. FJ as a full-time recruiter can take credit for the selections in 2006 but the only reason we used so many picks on kids is becuase the 2006 draft was one of the deepest. Even then we effectively traded away our 3rd round pick that year for Polak.

- It was not lack of funds that meant Craig traded a 3rd round pick for a dud who couldn't kick like Adam Thomson and then a 4th rounder for Hislop.

- It will not be lack of funds that means a 27 year old Brad Miller who was playing mostly at Casey last year is promoted off the rookie list and may play round 1 when he is not part of our future and was only meant to be back-up.

- It was not lack of funds that enabled us to win meaningless games in second half of a season costing us priority picks by just 1 or 2 games when priority pick(s) could have provided us with a 10 year player(s).

If you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 4 years we have won just 6 games from 44. I don't expect us to add greatly to those 6 wins either this first half of the season either so it could be less than 10 wins from 55 by round 11 this year. Not even our resident AFL porper North Melbourne is close to such a pathetic record as that. Our seasons have been over before the midway point where we are averaging less than 2 wins and yet we have no bonus priority picks to show for it by the end of any of those seasons. That's no priority picks to accelerate the turnover and rebuilding of our list. That's no priority picks to access more of the best talented kids at the top end of the draft. We never used the draft system to our advantage because we never understood it and we never planned in advance such as midway of 2009 to exploit it to our advantage knowing we would have a very young list in 2010. If we had been smart as a Club we would be a year ahead of where we are now in terms of our list without needing to spend a cent more but alas we weren't. If we wish to become the best then surely we need to be ruthless and exploit every AFL draft rule and system available to us to our advantage. Yes smokey I'm still peeved off about it  ;).  

It's a great idea that we are raising these huge funds to pay off our debt and build a warchest for free agency and credit goes to Benny Gale for that idea. However I just hope Craig, Gary and the Club on the night not only blamed lack of funds for the state of our list but also acknowledged their own stuff ups that had nothing to do with money but rather a poor and inconsistent recruiting philosophy.  

And that ends my late night rant!  ;D

Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup
Sorry but you are cherry picking comments made on the night to stick the boot in
In no way was lack of funds used as an excuse for all the failures. They admitted that they had made also mistakes along the way but they were not looking to point the finger.

Offline JVT

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2011, 09:25:22 AM »
I can see a direct link between how a lack of funds can restrict you from employing staff/making an educated decision on nearly all your points MT.

Yes, there is no doubt in the past that it doesn't purely fall on lack of funds, and even when we have no debt and are investing more into the footy dept. we are not guaranteed success. It does put us in a position to challenge though!  :thumbsup

I think once we have the people in place (recruiters, scouts, psyches, opposition coaches etc.) that Collingwood does then the mistakes of the past will not appear again to haunt us  ;)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2011, 02:49:06 PM »
Really gotta luv this post :thumbsup
That's a worry  ;D

Sorry but you are cherry picking comments made on the night to stick the boot in
In no way was lack of funds used as an excuse for all the failures. They admitted that they had made also mistakes along the way but they were not looking to point the finger.
Not cherry picking at all Infamy as those points were off the top of the my head; nor hindsight either as those criticisms were made by me on here at the time each of those decisions were being made. If Craig took responsiblity for the poor list management decisions and lack of planning and lack of exploiting the draft system during his time so far and the Club admitted our whole philosophy towards recruiting was totally wrong (rather than just saying we made poor selections due to lack of money and resources) then fine. That wasn't reported.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

10 FLAGS

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2011, 04:02:27 PM »
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.

Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.

Offline Stripes

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2011, 04:09:52 PM »
MT - I think you'll find they are more than aware that poor decisions is the underlying catylist of the majority of our woes which have then made us so financially vulnerable as to restrict our future decison making. So in other words the stupid mistakes of the past have handicapped everything else we have done since this point. It's been like a line of dominoes with one stuff up leading to another until, even with the right people or best intentions, we are still dragged down by the financial anchors of yesterday.

This is why this whole Fighting Tiger Fund so appeals to me. Not only are we generating the money we need to bring us up to a standard where we are competitive offield but I feel we have the right people to then use those assets to properly turn it into onfield success. We are doing everything the hard way, ensuring develop the players properly and build our list depth correctly. There is no rush to win individual games, no panic to succeed now or else! The pressure is off the coach, the administration are realistic at last and the supporters are appreciating the honesty and leadership of the club.

All of this means positive change. All of this means possible future success. We are not getting rid of a debt only to have to reach into our pockets again in the near future. We are donating to give us the backing to make a difference and I believe that Benny Gale in particular has the realistic business nouse to finally give us the off-field strength to ensure we are no longer handicapped and no longer have excuses.

This is about undersanding the errors of the past, fixing what can be fixed and placing ourselves into a position where we can finally make the informed right decisions to be ultimately successful!  :gotigers

Offline Stripes

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2011, 04:26:55 PM »
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.

Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.

Which site? I just posted a long winded wakeup call on PRE if that is the one your referring too... :shh  ;)

gerkin greg

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 05:11:21 PM »
If Craig took responsiblity for the poor list management decisions and lack of planning and lack of exploiting the draft system during his time so far and the Club admitted our whole philosophy towards recruiting was totally wrong (rather than just saying we made poor selections due to lack of money and resources) then fine.

If CC admitted that he'd get fired  :-X
 ;D

tony_montana

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 05:42:19 PM »
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.

Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.

agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.

Just my opinion

cheers

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Re: No funds, no flags --- Tigers talk dollars and sense (Age)
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2011, 05:51:01 PM »
A number of Richmond supporters are doing a great job of making themselves look like wankers on another site. I've just had a read of the crap they're peddling on another site re the Tiger Fund. Its just shameful, a group of idiots think they can dictate how, when and why the club will spend money from the fund.

Its Just Disgraceful IMHO. People pledge money, then thats it. No one has the right to tell the club how its going to spend the money or asking for almost dollar by dollar accounts. Its just shameful IMHO. These wankers should ring the club and get there money back, I'm sure the club wont have a problem returning the donations. IMHO these donations wouldnt be more than 10k. What a disgrace.

agree to a certain extent 10flags. But people should be allowed to put forth their own opinions. For mine I'd rather we wiped the debt immediately first. If we put the whole 2.3 mill on the debt today we'd save 200-250k on interest this season, thats a couple of extra specialised coaches right there for the beginning of next preseason. interest on debt is a complete waste of money - we're already halfway there in terms of the debt push it hard and we'll wipe that in no time then go for the bonus warchest... Even if we dont raise an extra 1.5 mill, we'll get ourselves 4-500k in saved interest repayments, thats plenty of development coaches right there.

Just my opinion

cheers

Everyones entitled to their opinion and I respect that and I dont have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is people demanding or making demands of the club because they donated some money. Big deal, I donated, you donated, lots of us have donated, but thats the end of it, let Brendon Gale work out how the money will be spent. Some of the stuff thats been written the last 2 or 3 days is just unbelievable.