One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: WilliamPowell on April 11, 2005, 03:45:19 PM
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As I walked out of the
sauna oops I mean Stadium yesterday I thought about how glad I was that we didn’t appoint Rodney Eade as coach. This man invented the “flood” and I for one absolutely hate it!
If I had to sit there week after week and watch what I saw from the Doggies at times yesterday I’d seriously consider not going the game. To look up and see not one player forward of the centre circle let alone in the Dogs attacking 50 was horrible. I don’t blame the Tiger players as they were following their opponents. Then to see them chip it side to side as players ran forward – creates massive opportunities for turnovers IMO especially when you are lacking in the skill department. It isn’t exciting to watch – it is boring and frustrating.
I know our skill errors hurt us and will continue to do so in the short term but I’d much rather watch a fast attacking style of footy than “keepings off”.
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I couldn't agree more WP. I know from some Swans supporters they were glad to see the back of Eade because of all this negative flooding "football". You never see the premiership winning team each year resorting to this crap. After 5 years of Spud if we had gone for Eade every Tiger supporter would be round the bend by now. We definitely made the right choice in going for Wallace out of the two :thumbsup.
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I couldn't agree more WP. I know from some Swans supporters they were glad to see the back of Eade because of all this negative flooding "football". You never see the premiership winning team each year resorting to this crap. After 5 years of Spud if we had gone for Eade every Tiger supporter would be round the bend by now. We definitely made the right choice in going for Wallace out of the two :thumbsup.
i also agree, eade is a monkey!
tw will develop our team to use the flood when needed but not to base our game plan around!
digs are crap as are the swans, swans flood just as much and their fans cant blame eade now! they were lucky that the lions are undermanned and unfit!
flooding sux, eade is crap , the dogs hardly won a contested possession and the stats show that! if they didnt play that crap style we would have won by 10 goals
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All I know is that this negative style of football is painful to watch. What’s more frustrating, getting beaten by 12 goals or watching uninspiring footy? I don’t really understand what coaches think they can get out of having their players adopt this style, especially on a regular basis.
The doggies have generally struggled against us in the past, because of our talls, why wouldn’t we play attacking throughout the game? In the last quarter, TW said he decided to go man on man. I don’t understand if it’s as simple as just deciding to change tactics, why wouldn’t we do that earlier? I’m no strategist, so maybe someone can explain it to me?
Even though it was still a struggle in the last quarter, with persistence and a bit of grit we won. Because of that, I can take a lot more out of that win than most we’ve had in the last few seasons.
Winning by negating and limiting the opposition, rather than because we’re a better team, doesn’t inspire me to think we’re getting better. It just says to me that the coach doesn’t think we’re good enough to play this game the way intended. Or he’s just plain coaching for all the wrong reasons.
Until the team gets better it will be a struggle, regardless of what style we play. For their long-term development, why not have players adopt an attacking mentality, instead of this negative mindset that curbs any initiative or flair players have.
If it’s not fun to watch, how can it be fun to play?
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I don’t really understand what coaches think they can get out of having their players adopt this style, especially on a regular basis.
Well for the Doggies on Sunday in the last couple of minutes it created a situation - that hurt their chances of winning. There were 2 ball ups in a row and for the first one the majority of the dogs players were hovering around the ball up - it caused the ball to be bottled up again - advantage Tigers :thumbsup For the next one Brad Johnson was running around waving his arms like a lunatic (as did Luke Darcy but the arm movements were not as severe ;D) telling his teammates to create some space - by then the damaged had been done.
I reckon their "flooding" bit them on the behind to a degree.
I suppose what I am saying is the negatvie tactics can hurt your chance of winning because the first instinct is to defend and attacking becomes an after thought
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I suppose what I am saying is the negatvie tactics can hurt your chance of winning because the first instinct is to defend and attacking becomes an after thought
There are many reasons why I don’t agree with using these tactics and that’s one of them. Coaches who use it on a regular basis are hurting their own players. If they don’t understand that then they shouldn’t be darn well coaching.
If they don’t have any sense of responsibility towards the development of their players, those who watch it and the competition and game as a whole then they’re coaching for all the wrong reasons.
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Totally agree with the above sentiments.
It is not good watching your team lose a game at any time but when they play negative, unattractive, boring football in the process it is enough to drive you up the wall. That was my problem with Frawley once the side began to struggle. Basically he never had a plan B, as Wallace did against the Dogs.
We may be under pressure in coming months as our depth and inexperience are tested but as long as the side plays with a positive, traditional Richmond spirit then they will continue to win the respect of both supporters and opposition sides.
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You can accept if coaches use negative tactics for a short time, just to slow down the opposition if they’ve scored a few goals quickly, but to use it as the basis for winning games just doesn’t make sense.
Maybe at times coaches worry too much about winning and not enough about the other things. As it seems to me that if coaches focus on developing and getting the best out of their players then the wins, enjoyment factor for supporters and the game as a spectacle will be looked after in the process.
How players can develop and get better by playing negative, defensive, boring, tear your hair out, inane football is a mystery to me.
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By basing you whole gameplan week in week out on flooding to try a pinch a win just shows the comp. you don't think you are good enough to win playing real footy. In Spud's case tryng to pinch a win didn't even come into it after we fell behind on the scoreboard. He would use flooding in some desperate attempt to limit our losses to 6-7 goals :help
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Eade admits: We flooded too much
By Richard Hinds
May 17, 2005
Understandably, Rodney Eade does not express much regret about his performance during a club-record 152 games as Sydney coach. However, as he prepares to return to the SCG for the first time with his Western Bulldogs, he admits one misgiving: "If I look back now, we did flood too much."
Rather than being a consequence of the self-examination that followed his departure from the Swans, Eade's statement is inspired by recent experience. The man who is acknowledged - and often blamed - for popularising the controversial flooded defence has had his attacking eyes opened by his young Bulldogs' exploits.
After taking charge of a team blessed with pace and skill, but low on confidence, Eade decided the best way to instil self-belief was to let his players take on a positive style of football without providing the safety net of the defensive flood.
The result has been wins in three of their past four games and an average of about 30 scoring shots a game from a team Eade claims has played virtually flood-free football. "It does make you look back a bit and think there could have been times when you didn't need to flood as much, you could have been a bit more attacking," he says.
For the rest of the article:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2005/05/16/1116095905560.html?oneclick=true
Some sanity. :bow
What I don’t understand though is, why would certain players deserve to play attacking footy any more than any other group of players? Where are those players expected to get their self-belief from, if they don’t already have it? ‘Coles Online’ perhaps?
Wouldn’t it just make sense that this sort of approach has the potential to work the same way for any group of players?
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Agree folks !
Wallace was always the man
(Thanks for the early info JAKSTAR)
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Our game was the perfect example of why flooding is pressing the self-destruction button. No side can physically keep up for 4 quarters the hard running up and down the field required to successfully flood. Eventually the dam walls bust. The Pies workrate was terrific and they perfectly pulled off what they needed to do to strangle us for 3 quarters. Problem was when they cleared from defence they had no forward line and the low scoring affair kept us in the game even though we were playing dumb crappy footy until we turned on the after burners in the last. Only 8 goals in a game of footy is a great advertisement for the game ::). No coincidence the teams with the highest "for" this year are at the top of the ladder. Wallace understands modern footy :thumbsup.
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Rivalry a collision of egos
05 August 2006
Herald-Sun
Jim Wilson
THE stoush between premiership teammates Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade in the build-up to today's clash at the MCG is bordering on professional jealousy.
That was the blunt assessment of the pair's former premiership coach David Parkin, who last night described both men as in a class of their own as coaches.
"There are no coaches in the game with a better grip on the direction of the game and the way they communicate it to their players,' Parkin said.
"But with that, both probably think they're better than the other. They are a cut above even Neil Craig and they would like to think they are ahead of one another."
While Chris Grant's 330th game has grabbed most of the attention this week, Wallace and Eade have stirred the pot in an intriguing verbal battle.
Grant set the mood when he left no doubt on Fox Footy's On the Couch about his feelings towards former coach Wallace.
"I've learnt more in the last 18 months under Rocket (Eade) than in my whole football career," Grant said.
Wallace was asked for his response to Grant's comments and whether his relationship with the Bulldogs champion was strained.
"I'm sure Rocket had a strained relationship with some Sydney players," Wallace said.
Wallace and Eade have also gone at it over Ryan Griffen's "they gave up" comments earlier this season, when the youngster asked about the Tigers' performance in Round 1 following their mauling by the Dogs.
The Tigers' coach said this week he wouldn't use Griffen's comments as motivation for today's game.
"What I made of it then and I said publicly was, 'Leave him alone'. He's a kid who probably hasn't thought through the process," Wallace said.
"So I don't think that's too much of an issue, to be honest. Will we be using it? No, we won't. Do the players remember it? Yes, they do."
But Eade scoffed at Wallace's claims and has no doubts Griffen will be targeted by the Tigers.
"Terry is a master of the motivational tools at his disposal and he'll use Ryan Griffen's comments from last time, there's no doubt," Eade said.
"And with Chris's game . . . there's a fairly strained relationship between Terry and Chris . . . so he'd like to spoil his party as well."
Parkin said the mind games between Wallace and Eade added another dimension to today's clash.
"Whatever their agendas, it's got everyone talking and that's great for the game," he said.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20021870%255E19742,00.html
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Same goal, unique styles
20 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Trevor Grant
Comparing coaches: Former Hawthorn champion Dermott Brereton says comparisions will always be made between ex- teammates and turned AFL coaches Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade.
COACHING talent, like beauty, is often in the eye of beholder.
And according to Dermott Brereton, skin-deep perceptions, rather than talent, are too often used by people when they try to compare his premiership mates from Hawthorn, Terry Wallace and Rodney Eade.
He says Wallace, 48, is often judged more harshly than Eade, 49, because of the way he looks.
"Rodney is now a middle-aged man with a bit of a spread and a balding pate. He appeals to people in a certain way because of this and they don't want to take him down," Brereton said this week.
"Terry is sun-tanned and a supremely fit mid-40s man. He holds those looks proudly. He changed the coaching uniform at Richmond. It looks slicker now.
"There is an aspect in peoples' minds that this bloke is slick, a bit of a snake-oil salesman. They say, 'Let's not believe him and take him down when the chance is there'. But he's not that at all. He's an exceptionally good coach."
The ongoing comparison between the pair continues tonight when Wallace's Tigers take on Eade's Western Bulldogs at the MCG.
While they played together on the centre line at Hawthorn for nine seasons, which included the 1978, 1983 and 1986 premierships, there has been a perception that, as with the teams they coach, they do not get on.
"I've heard that before but I never saw any signs of that in all the time I have known them," said Brereton, who played at Hawthorn from 1982-92.
He said they were very different personalities who had different ways of achieving the same objective.
"When I played with them, Terry would die for the team. No problem whatsoever. Off the ground he was approachable, amenable, great fun to be around. But football never entered into the conversation. You really had to prise things out of him.
"Whereas Rodney was the bloke I could go and ask about any player and what to do in a situation. He'd very free-flowing and open with his advice.
"Both would do right by their teammates and the team but from a different angle.
"Actually I think Jason (Dunstall) and Terry are very similar characters.
"They were team-oriented once they pulled on the jumper but focused to the point of selfishness once they stepped outside the ground."
He said while Wallace was perceived, wrongly, as a master of spin, "Rodney has had his detractors as well.
"He can be brusque and his acid tongue has gone against him in the past. His demeanour when he was younger, as a player and coach, worked against him for a while," Brereton said.
"They are both outgoing people, but Rodney uses humour to defuse situations while Terry would want to explain things more.
"Rodney's really a rogue who has learned how to cover up that side of him, whereas Terry has a playboy streak in him as well as immense pride."
Brereton played in two of his five premierships with Wallace and Eade -- 1983 and '86 -- and regards both men as close mates and brilliant coaches.
So it was understandable he paused when asked which one he would employ to coach for his life.
"I'd be happy with both but I would select Rodney. I like the way he looks down into the fibres of the individuals he coaches so he can understand them," Brereton said, before adding that he couldn't really split them.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21586873%255E19742,00.html
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Rocket Eade copped it across the knuckles from Smorgon in the Bulldogs' review. Accused him of taking on too much in terms of admin and coaching and needing to improve his communication and transperancy. They've "demoted" him to just being senior coach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22721577-5012432,00.html
A lot changes in 6-12 months of footy.
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Rocket Eade copped it across the knuckles from Smorgon in the Bulldogs' review. Accused him of taking on too much in terms of admin and coaching and needing to improve his communication and transperancy. They've "demoted" him to just being senior coach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22721577-5012432,00.html
A lot changes in 6-12 months of footy.
If he hasn't already it would be good if March gave Wallace a rocket too and told him just to concentrate on being the senior coach and leave the media stuff alone.
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Rocket Eade copped it across the knuckles from Smorgon in the Bulldogs' review. Accused him of taking on too much in terms of admin and coaching and needing to improve his communication and transperancy. They've "demoted" him to just being senior coach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22721577-5012432,00.html
A lot changes in 6-12 months of footy.
If he hasn't already it would be good if March gave Wallace a rocket too and told him just to concentrate on being the senior coach and leave the media stuff alone.
Maybe it already has happened. We haven't heard a peep out of Plough except for the making the top 8 comment which all the coaches have made. Miller has done most of the media work since the end of the season.
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Eade topped up last year thinking Aker and McDougall were going to supplement their subsequent rise up the ladder after a relatively successful 06 when he needed to go back into the draft. Dogs right now are in a situation where we were at 2001/02 in terms of having alot of players in the twilight of their career and alot of players in their first couple of years of footy. It's almost they are trying to get a flag for blokes like West Johnson and co and once injuries set in they have fallen way off the mark due to a lack of depth due to these quick fix schemes. Glad we had the season we had this season as it is only upwards for us from here b/c for the Dogs unless they nurture someone to replace West and flankers forward pockets like Johnson who can kick 70 sausage rolls a season don't grow on trees and they will really be up the creek without a paddle. Better them than us.
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They didn't take enough warning of the thumping the Eagles gave them in last year's finals. Similar to us in 2001 overrating ourselves and they've made the same mistake as we did and as you say HT74 they topped up. The half-dozen ACLs they copped didn't help either. It's up to Eade now to show he isn't a one-trick pony with opposition clubs working his gameplan out and shutting down the dogs' run.
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eade is on very shaky ground. :whistle
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eade will be the next coach sacked
bookmark this
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I thought you were on the "we want wallace out" bandwagon X.
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I get the impression that topping up never works, even for top potential premiership teams. Unless there is a specific positional need that is holding the team back you should never draft players over 24 and never for players without some sort of exceptional talent. Even though Brown has been great for us I still think if we had drafted to develop the list instead we would be in a better position now. Don't get me wrong, I think Nathan's great and I am please to have him, but I probably would have handled things a little different myself. I think our policy of not drafting players over 24 is a correct one, pity we didn't have it earlier.
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I get the impression that topping up never works, even for top potential premiership teams. Unless there is a specific positional need that is holding the team back you should never draft players over 24 and never for players without some sort of exceptional talent. Even though Brown has been great for us I still think if we had drafted to develop the list instead we would be in a better position now. Don't get me wrong, I think Nathan's great and I am please to have him, but I probably would have handled things a little different myself. I think our policy of not drafting players over 24 is a correct one, pity we didn't have it earlier.
your damm right there pal. topping up DOESNT work. frawley did it and failed, so did eade and so did wallace.
the last 2 thought their teams would bge cemented in the 8 this year and bothhad terrible years.
enough said
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Libba on SEN saying there's rumblings at the Kennel and Eade maybe now discovering why Wallace left in terms of CEO Campbell Rose not being a footy person and being too tight with the money in regards to their footy dept while willing to fork out on pokie hotels at Edgewater.
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Topping up doesnt work. Thats why I was against getting McMahon. We need one more year at the bottom to get the players we need to be competitive for the big prize 3 or 4 years down the track.
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Topping up doesnt work. Thats why I was against getting McMahon. We need one more year at the bottom to get the players we need to be competitive for the big prize 3 or 4 years down the track.
McMahon is young enough not to be seen as topping up IMO and I think we are desperate for quality senior player. I feel quite let down by our senior players and I wouldn't be surprised if TW did too. Not surprising given the teams performance over the years but pathetic still the same.
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I believe Wallace is a good coach but even he was shocked by what happened last year.
There isn't any way in the world anybody at the club predicted what was going to happen last year. The key injuries to Nathan Brown and especially Simmonds really gutted our moral in a way that wasn't predicted by anyone. I think Wallace has now completely come to terms with the inadequacies of our senior core group. I thought we would go backwards last year but not to the extent that we did.
If we can keep Brown and Simmonds on the field for the season and we don't suffer any other debilitating injuries to key individuals then I really believe that we will make the eight.
We are better than the hawks, they went in the complete opposite direction to us last year but I say this year will be another story.
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no finals for eade no job. :shh
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I believe Wallace is a good coach but even he was shocked by what happened last year.
There isn't any way in the world anybody at the club predicted what was going to happen last year. The key injuries to Nathan Brown and especially Simmonds really gutted our moral in a way that wasn't predicted by anyone. I think Wallace has now completely come to terms with the inadequacies of our senior core group. I thought we would go backwards last year but not to the extent that we did.
If we can keep Brown and Simmonds on the field for the season and we don't suffer any other debilitating injuries to key individuals then I really believe that we will make the eight.
We are better than the hawks, they went in the complete opposite direction to us last year but I say this year will be another story.
i agree with a few things u have said but the bit that says we r better than the hawks is so comical its not funny.
We are no where near the hawks and thats not because i rate them top 4, cause i dont, its due to the fact i simply dont think our list is good enough. Our senior players are average at best led by our captain.
we still look up to richo as our knight and shining armour and he is almost done in 1-2 years.
We have no future players in the forward line post richo and we dont have any match winners, yet, bar foley and browny when fit.
i hope our younger players changes come to play this year, and make sugar and co earn their spot in the team because im sick of travellers in this team who play when they want. at times this year i thought i was back in time watching the tigers of the old save our skins era.
is wallace better than eade. not sure how to answer that. ive been very critical of wallace in the past but at the end of the day the leadership group has to get some of the blame.
He seems to have changed a little in his approach and workload and that can only be a positive i guess.
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no finals for eade no job. :shh
The Doggies set their standards a little higher than us then roger..
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Rocket Eade copped it across the knuckles from Smorgon in the Bulldogs' review. Accused him of taking on too much in terms of admin and coaching and needing to improve his communication and transperancy. They've "demoted" him to just being senior coach.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22721577-5012432,00.html
A lot changes in 6-12 months of footy.
If he hasn't already it would be good if March gave Wallace a rocket too and told him just to concentrate on being the senior coach and leave the media stuff alone.
Maybe it already has happened. We haven't heard a peep out of Plough except for the making the top 8 comment which all the coaches have made. Miller has done most of the media work since the end of the season.
Interesting to look back at this from earlier in this thread..
It must be killing Wallace all this silence.
I guess the muzzle comes off this weekend. ;)
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Interesting to look back at this from earlier in this thread..
It must be killing Wallace all this silence.
I guess the muzzle comes off this weekend. ;)
Maybe, but given his vanity (ego) and run-in with the media last year, he might be just as comfortable saying nothing until they all come crawling mid year for an interview on what turned it all around for the 'shock' team sitting just outside the 8. :)