One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: 10 FLAGS on July 20, 2012, 12:56:03 PM
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Its simple! Do you still have faith in Damien Hardwick or has he lost your confidence in him as a coach. Will he lead us to the promised land? Will I get to change my nicname to 11 Flags during his coaching tenure? Will he lead us to our next Premiership?
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He'll coach us to finals. stuff knows if he will coach a premiership though. Could be another Ratten
:outtahere
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"IF" we don't make the 8 next year ?
Who knows anymore :huh
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sacked at the end of 2013.
that should please some. :thumbsup
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Swooper Northey will be
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sacked at the end of 2013.
that should please some. :thumbsup
If he misses the eight next year its curtains. Cant see them sacking him if he makes the eight.
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sacked at the end of 2013.
that should please some. :thumbsup
Personally would be far from pleased due to what it would mean
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:pray
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I think he is doing everything right in terms of list development. Our squad needs education and Dimma and his coaching team have made this their number one priority. I do think his match day tactics still need improvement but he is learning on the job.
Will he take us to our next premiership I'm not sure but at the moment I feel confident that he will put us into a position where we are at least contending.
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well it will be an even more
interesting year next year.
already im hearing the familar
voices of discontent seeping out
of PRO. :banghead
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sacked at the end of 2013.
that should please some. :thumbsup
If he misses the eight next year its curtains. Cant see them sacking him if he makes the eight.
not being a smart behind here but have to ask not just you but everyone.
with our depth do you think finals a certainty next yr.
in the scheme of things we dont currently have a lot of injuries and look how we drop away. imo we have had a decent run with injuries what happens if we get a bad run.
it takes time to get enough games into kids 4 yrs give or take. it takes time for enough players to enter key age brackets 23 plus.
most want to go down the youth path almost exclusively again but that will mean 3 or 4 yrs before we get a consistent player out of any of them that is if we get our picks right.
me i think finals are more likely in 2014 but possible in 2013 if as was needed this yr all things go well for us.
if finals are a must we sure are going to need to get in a fair few mature types who can play come seasons end.
the bottom line is you need enough cattle to play finals with enough older experienced players and enough quality.we dont have enough by a big margin. for me the simple truth is we have done extremely well this yr to be challenging at all or even still be in the hunt. lthe list itself says we will be doing well to be in a similar position again next yr.
for me i break it down to 3 groups
18 - 22 development group and yep a lot of early draft picks are playing good foorty by 22.but most are developing and working hard on consistency attuning their bodies to afl etc.
23 - 27 mature players. players taking on leadership done the preseasons got their bodies where they need them and closed the gap between their worst and best.
28 + veteran players old heads and true leaders. been there done that with most about to go into slow decline.
our 18 - 22 group will grow next yr with lots of nd rookie picks.
our 23 - 27 group will likely go back wards because the majority who get cut will come from here imo.
our 28 plus group will likely stay the same or may decline by one if miller a rookie is cut.
then theres games played experience.
atm we have 8 100 plus gamers deledio, edwards, foley, jackson, miller, newman, riewoldt, and tuck. this group should be full of veterans and mature players.
its gone up by two as this yr has progressed.
because of age tuck and newman are very much short term. Because of ability miller and jackson should go. Edwards is borderline imo, but wont go there as i dont want it to become about individual players.the quality of this group has to be questioned though as well as the long term.
We then have 12 50 - 99 gamers, cotchin, king, grigg, houli, i maric, martin,mcguane, moore, nahas, rance, vickery, white. this group in the main should be mostly made up of mature players with some development players.
as this yr has gone its gone up by 4 but we could lose two in white and mcguane. also imo nahas king and likely moore are short termers.take cotchin and martin out and you are scratching for real quality.
then theres the 0 - 49 gamers. very much development players or inexperienced mature recruits.webberley, post, ohanlon, arnot, astbury, batchelor, browne, conca, connors. morris, macdonald, helbig,grimes,griffiths,graham, elton ellis derickx. dea, plus rookies that makes 25.
4 or 5 in trouble in this bracket but they are in the main mature players aged 23 plus. good thing is 6 or 7 are in our best 22 already well is it a good thing or just shows how much we lack in other areas.
lots of kids there but how much quality and how many will make it.
the numbers dont add up for me. finals next yr are not a certainty by any stretch of the imagination. next yr for me hardwick will again be judged on impovement and how many players he can develop not the win/loss column.
imo with the cattle hes got hes doing okay.
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NO!!!
ABSOLUTELY NOT ... unfortunately ... he will either be sacked midway through 2013 or at the end of 2013 ...
He better stop being "nice" to the players and coach a better game structure!!!
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Has us on the right track in terms of list turnover and development.
His time is coming. :thumbsup
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I promised that I wouldn't 'harp-on' about Dimma anymore so I wont. :-X
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Has us on the right track in terms of list turnover and development.
His time is coming. :thumbsup
I totally agree, unfortunately for him due to the compromised drafts it has been a terrible time to rebuild a list. Still he has done as well as I expected. I'm happy with him and I'd stick with him.
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is he coaching into his 60's is he
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Has us on the right track in terms of list turnover and development.
His time is coming. :thumbsup
I totally agree, unfortunately for him due to the compromised drafts it has been a terrible time to rebuild a list. Still he has done as well as I expected. I'm happy with him and I'd stick with him.
Totally agree
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Id say so, wouldnt surpise me if he won a couple in succession :shh
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I am not sure if he will be there but i really hope he is because people like Deledio signed long term deals on the back of Hardwicks reinstatment if the playing group respect him then so do i for now
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Yes: :bow :cheers :thumbsup :gotigers
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Re: Will Dimma Be Our Next Premiership Coach?
....
Same degree of uncertainty
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Yes: :bow :cheers :thumbsup :gotigers
someones knocked off Jackos gimmick :lol
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MCM,
well played :thumbsup
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lets hope Stiffmeister can obtain a stiffy to hold the cup aloft.
in stiffy we trust.. :gobdrop
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Yes: :bow :cheers :thumbsup :gotigers
Fake account is above ;)
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Yes: :bow :cheers :thumbsup :gotigers
someones knocked off Jackos gimmick :lol
Fake
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Dimmer will coach Coburg to a flag before rfc
No hope too much of a youth worker
Players don't fair him
Benny and Dimmer have turned the club into the new Big Brother reality tv show
They make me ill
Three seasons of zip thus far
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Dimmer will coach Coburg to a flag before rfc
No hope too much of a youth worker
Players don't fair him
Benny and Dimmer have turned the club into the new Big Brother reality tv show
They make me ill
Three seasons of zip thus far
not sure if he'll be our next premiership coach (too many if's, buts and maybes go into winning a flag - variables that even the "bet" coaches don't have a control over)....do think he will be leading us in our next finals campaign though which gives him a chance...
as far as blaming Benny & saying that we have had three seasons of zip - think you're wide of the mark there mate...
have turned over nearly 30 players (many hacks) in those three years, have had continual improvement in regards to Wins/Loss and have eradicated a large portion of our debt...now moving to stand alone VFL team, improved Punt Rd oval & facilities and looks like we are finally getting drafting & recruiting right (compare Tambling, Pattinson, Meyers, etc with Conca, Cotch, Martin plus matures like Maric, Grigg etc)....think the three years have been beneficial long term especially considering it was a shocking time to rebuild with compromised drafts...
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I think that Hardwick will lead this club out of the wilderness based on evidence we have seen. Take the emotional out of the past 6 weeks performances - we are testing the depth and gathering information for next year's recruitment and drafting.
I have no doubt that the list will be changed again next year - so this will be putting pressure on the current list to perform.
The only thing that I have a concern about is the "flexibility" of his game plan. I believe it needs to be more robust in terms of countering factors of fatigue, playing conditions, player changes etc
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The only thing that I have a concern about is the "flexibility" of his game plan. I believe it needs to be more robust in terms of countering factors of fatigue, playing conditions, player changes etc
^ valid point mate - think that is an area of concern/development but at least he is starting to get some of the right people around him with the additions of Ross Smith and people of his ilk...
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No Rahul Dravid will be our next Premiership coach
FFS or FTF
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FRO?
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FRO?
Please
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The only thing that I have a concern about is the "flexibility" of his game plan. I believe it needs to be more robust in terms of countering factors of fatigue, playing conditions, player changes etc
I think to be a great sportsman you have to have a great plan A. I don't mind us losing with plan A because the odd win with plan b while your developing is pretty useless. Plan A has to stand up to the pressure.
^ valid point mate - think that is an area of concern/development but at least he is starting to get some of the right people around him with the additions of Ross Smith and people of his ilk...
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Dimma has the boys playing for him. Nobody can deny that unless they are blind or deranged.
Once we upgrade on some of the duds on our list and he'll be able to caoch knowing he is building a list rather than delisting players and getting games into kids we'll have a clearer picture.
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Dimma has the boys playing for him. Nobody can deny that unless they are blind or deranged.
Once we upgrade on some of the duds on our list and he'll be able to caoch knowing he is building a list rather than delisting players and getting games into kids we'll have a clearer picture.
Yep
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l still have faith in Hardwick & his coaching staff. l beleive he will have us playing a consistant brand of hard football that will win us many games & put us on track. Cant ask anymore from him as its the players who are making unforced skill errors & l see some are shy of a hard contest. Some players will be moved on.
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l still have faith in Hardwick & his coaching staff. l beleive he will have us playing a consistant brand of hard football that will win us many games & put us on track. Cant ask anymore from him as its the players who are making unforced skill errors & l see some are shy of a hard contest. Some players will be moved on.
NAME NAMES Monkey :lol
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The answer to the question is NO
There were coaching issues at the Cairns game that the club reacted by having Wayne Campbell is our runner today
Was coaching on the field today
Listened to 3AW at the game .Malthouse gave Hardwick some decent wacks
Richo also agreed
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Flogging a dead horse
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The answer to the question is NO
There were coaching issues at the Cairns game that the club reacted by having Wayne Campbell is our runner today
Was coaching on the field today
Listened to 3AW at the game .Malthouse gave Hardwick some decent wacks
Richo also agreed
Was a disgrace by the club, what the hell are they doing having a assistant coach as a runner.
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who is this Malthouse bloke.
oh the one that was loving us sick when we knocked
over the Hawks.
the guy is a fence sitter. :banghead
mind you most around here are, they love tipping
the club when things are crook and jumping
on the wagon when we are up to it.
i think we ALL know who they ARE. :lol :shh :thumbsup
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
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Hardwick footy :rollin
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dunno if he will win a premiership but pretty sure hes our coach for the nest 2 yrs.
funny people ripping into him. im actually applauding him and what hes done with such an ordinary list this yr.
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
Yep sack the coach or the next best thing start a campaign against him. ::)
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
Great post. We had players behind the ball when we were behind in the last quarter while they had extras on the ball. Good luck winning a game of football like that.
Claw. The list was good enough to get in a winning position again despite the ineptitude of the coach. Can't be that bad a list because its been able to do it all year.
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Hell yeah. Lets sack the coach and start again! again.
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There were some....interesting decisions by our coach yesterday when the game was on the line.
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
Great post. We had players behind the ball when we were behind in the last quarter while they had extras on the ball. Good luck winning a game of football like that.
Claw. The list was good enough to get in a winning position again despite the ineptitude of the coach. Can't be that bad a list because its been able to do it all year.
Don't expect a reply. Good post
Yeah the list was good enough to be in front against every side but the Pies throughout stages in the last quarter
In the cold hard light of the day we have been regurgitating the depth line for 30 days
Can almost see it already. 12 months sane round same excuses
We screwed the year up plain and simple
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daniel, do you think our depth is up to standard?
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daniel, do you think our depth is up to standard?
No, which is why i hope we go after a Caddy. We need midfield cover
Our depth was good enough to get in winning positions, in fact i think in front in the last quarter in every close game we lost.
I have an issue with players like Miller, Jackson and Edwards getting games ahead of others and then when poo hits the fan everyone screams about our youth and depth
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
Great post. We had players behind the ball when we were behind in the last quarter while they had extras on the ball. Good luck winning a game of football like that.
Claw. The list was good enough to get in a winning position again despite the ineptitude of the coach. Can't be that bad a list because its been able to do it all year.
Interesting theory on how the game should or shouldnt be played.
We needed to win the game, not defend it.
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daniel, do you think our depth is up to standard?
No, which is why i hope we go after a Caddy. We need midfield cover
Our depth was good enough to get in winning positions, in fact i think in front in the last quarter in every close game we lost.
I have an issue with players like Miller, Jackson and Edwards getting games ahead of others and then when poo hits the fan everyone screams about our youth and depth
our depth is not up to standard, but thats not a reason for losing?
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Whilst I understand how cut we are just like we have realistically lost 5 games under 12 points
blokes like McGuane, Graham, Webberley, White, Post, Jackson, who continually make elementary errors at critical times. Realistically we have a good core of 25 players that can keep us competitive its about 10 of the other 18 or so players that really let us down.
In hindsight playing O'Hanlon from earlier in the year or Elton may have been more beneficial rather than waiting for an injury to present a chance. We should have bitten the bullet with a few boys like we did with Ellis and if they warranted it played them when they performing for Coburg.
Whilst we need to take our chances other than Webberley who was a late pick from Dimma's first draft at the club Jako is a remnant from the Spud era and the rest have been there since Wallace and just have not come on the way we have hoped but we could not delist them at the time due to mass retirements and delistings DImma had to cater for when initially taking the job.
Whilst that is not an excuse its a real reason why we have fallen short. If people want to see it like this fine and if people don't and want to make judgement in any other way no dramas. :thumbsup
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From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era
Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:
From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?
From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop
From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....
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Yeah but Foley and Tuck are keepers Moore would have been more than handy for us had his hips held up given we could free up Griffiths to CHF which leaves McGuane whose played regular footy up until last year given Grimes emergence as the one waiting to see what will happen with his career.
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Can tell you all
Malthouse made a lot of sense today
Critical on Hardwick for playing players behind the ball early
Great post. We had players behind the ball when we were behind in the last quarter while they had extras on the ball. Good luck winning a game of football like that.
Claw. The list was good enough to get in a winning position again despite the ineptitude of the coach. Can't be that bad a list because its been able to do it all year.
lol you ever ask ask yourself that just perhaps a decent chunk of the players are the reason we cant consistently get over the line.
do you think a third yr coach doesnt learn the caper as he goes. yep he made some poor mistakes and will continue to do so both on and off field. but to take us from where we were at the end of 09 to where we are now the improvement is huge.
with the crappy overall list that we have, hardwick has done well to have had us in finals contention so late into the yr.having so few injuries obviously helped but look what happened as soon as they came.
we have had just 12 14 consistenly good players all yr and when they go down mediocrity joins a fair bit of mediocrity already there.
instead of bagging him you should be applauding him and stop deluding yourself about just how good our list is. ya know what hes going to make more mistakes get used to it.
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At this rate the next 3 coaches wont be our Premiership Coach.
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Hell yeah. Lets sack the coach and start again! again.
YEP! We should! Don't need to start again, we have the players! Just the game plan is horrible!
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Hell yeah. Lets sack the coach and start again! again.
YEP! We should! Don't need to start again, we have the players! Just the game plan is horrible!
Was the game plan horrible against Sydney, Hawthorn, St Kilda, even the Eagles?
Or is it just horrible when we lose?
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its that horrible that our worst lose
is round one.
beaten 2 definate finalists and maybe
Grand Finalists.
run some others right to the wire.
yep the game plan is a stinker.
i would like to see perhaps more
experience added to the box over summer.
:thumbsup
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From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era
Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:
From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?
From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop
From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....
left from frawley era
jackson, moore, newman, tuck. jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit, newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.
wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.
the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of these hacks out.
the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.
while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.
ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15 but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.
wallace era
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atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15 but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.
The list is capable of beating the 1st and 3rd teams, Sydney and Hawthorn. The list you describe is incapable of those wins.
There are no excuses for losing so many close games. There are no excuses for not playing the finals this year.
Putting Campbell on the field against North presents a serious coaching/communication issue. It took 16 rounds of denial to acknowledge there is a problem. This response was too little too late.
The club needs to take a more proactive approach. They cannot continue to employ someone who is learning on the job beyond the end of this season. Richmond needs an experienced proven coach who can get results with the playing list we have. Not the playing list we wish we had. They need to do everything in their power to get Mick Malthouse at the end of the season.
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From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era
Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:
From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?
From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop
From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....
left from frawley era
jackson, moore, newman, tuck. jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit, newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.
wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.
the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of these hacks out.
the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.
while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.
ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15 but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.
wallace era
It's not surprising that the Wallace era was so poor given the lack of funds for recruiting then and given the funds other clubs did put in to recruiting then. Also it's not surprising that from the first year of hardwick most have failed. We did 14 new players that year and I said at the time if 7 make it it would be a good result.
Note the only ones we've kept have been reasonably high draft picks from hardwicks first year. Says the pre season and rookie drafts are fluke territory and should be used differently. If we'd drafted Leon Davis last year in the pre season would we be still in the hunt for finals? A genuine good AFL standard distributor of the ball. We'll never know. But all the good young kids are gone by pre season usually.
I'm more concerned with guys like astbury, conca, Ellis, dea, griffiths. These guys need to develop as good players or the hardwick era will fail. This will be the mark of hardwick, not cotchin.
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In the last 2 weeks we have dropped 2 games and 8 points to climb up the ladder.Both games in the 4qtr the games were lost.I'm not going to say the reason we lost these games was his fault .but the coach's box made a few mistakes in these games.
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Edited to delete quoted post that has been removed for breaking forum rules AGAIN
Would have us returning to the dark old days where we sacked coaches as soon as we didn't make finals?! Surely you can see we have progressed this year and are making real gains. Under Dimma you can see real development in players and real improvement in our club culture. This has been our greatest problem at Richmond for decades. We have had small glimmers of success but nothing sustained. How many players have we had come to the club with an abundance of potential who never seem to fulfill it?
I struggle with Haters. Rather than look for the quick fix and get excited about the opportunity to pull out the knives, give us a realistic solution. Give us a viable alternative that doesn't mean we have to start again, doesn't bring instability to the club and does undo all the great work that the club has achieved with Dimma at the helm.
I for one love the fact that finally from the admin down Richmond is all on the same page. When was the last time we could say that? Dimma will make mistakes like any coach during a game but its what he learns from the mistake that counts.
The time of heaping all the blame on the one coach is gone, we are no longer in the 80's - the game has changed. The players need to take equal responsibility, as do the administration, assistant coaches and fitness staff. Was it Dimmas fault we sold a game to Cairns? Was it Dimma's fault that the players lost the plot in the last 2 minutes of the Suns game? Was it Dimmas fault we have had so many injuries to crucial players? Is it Dimma's fault that Petrie kicked 7 on the weekend? Was it Dimma's fault that Connors, Martin, Jackson and White got suspended?
Will Dimma be our next premiership coach - I sure hope so because he is doing far more right than he is wrong.
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From memory - foley, mcguane, moore and tuck are also from Spuds era
Dimma's regime whilst it has unearthed some gems has also had some failures:
From 2009 National draft: taylor, webberly, nason, farmer
and I think most if not all the rookies hicks, contin, roberts, westhoff with the jury still out on Griffs (taken the pick immediately before Fyfe and Bastinac), Astbury and Dea.
Plainly that year we recruited a lot of small body shapes that didnt come on. eg webberly nason and farmer - given we already had nahas and king - how many small blokes do you need?
From 2010 - mcdonald, Xman, and rookies jacobi, hislop
From 2011 - AMaric for the moment....
left from frawley era
jackson, moore, newman, tuck. jackson should have gone many yrs ago moore has been decent when fit, newman and tuck are in their 30s. before you can blink there will be none left from the frawley yrs. to have so few left from those yrs is crippling and shows just how poor recruiting has been.
wallace era
connors, cotchin, deledio, edwards, foley was a rookie selection in 2004 that puts him in wallace drafts.graham, king, mcguane, nahas, post, rance, riewoldt, vickery white.
theres 13 left from 2004 to 2008 drfts. 7 of them are borderline afl players and thats being kind. bloody hell its enough to make one cry.
i can honestly state that only only 5 maybe 6 players from these yrs are genuine long term players who are up to standard.
the 17 players mentioned should be our core group of quality big bodied experienced leaders that allow all of the kids from the hardwick era 1 to 3 yrs time to develop and lead them.
yet the truth of the matter is we are all waiting for younger players to mature and push most of these hacks out.
the reality is hardwick has started from almost as low a base as gc and gws and i dont see anyone demanding they make finals for awhile yet.
while what have been very ordinary players like nahas king edwards mcguane jackson white are clearly in our best 22 performed players we will struggle to win games against all sides.
ffs our best 22 falls away dranatically we need enough players coming thru to make these blokes nothing more than depth. we need about 30 decent players. atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15 but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.
wallace era
It's not surprising that the Wallace era was so poor given the lack of funds for recruiting then and given the funds other clubs did put in to recruiting then. Also it's not surprising that from the first year of hardwick most have failed. We did 14 new players that year and I said at the time if 7 make it it would be a good result.
Note the only ones we've kept have been reasonably high draft picks from hardwicks first year. Says the pre season and rookie drafts are fluke territory and should be used differently. If we'd drafted Leon Davis last year in the pre season would we be still in the hunt for finals? A genuine good AFL standard distributor of the ball. We'll never know. But all the good young kids are gone by pre season usually.
I'm more concerned with guys like astbury, conca, Ellis, dea, griffiths. These guys need to develop as good players or the hardwick era will fail. This will be the mark of hardwick, not cotchin.
pretty much agree with that. funny thing is as much as those players need to improve for us to go forward most have them in our best 22 apart from astbury. that in itself says alot about our more mature players or just how many we have up to standard.
i have constanly said on all sites that ive been on, that with young rookie picks you are looking at a 1 in 6 strike rate. ive often espoused we give more mature state league player a go who meet certain criteria with rookie picks.
psd picks and late nd picks the strike rate aint much better and that is for all clubs.
i havent done the percentages on these things for a fair while now and wont it is too much work. but i bet my bottom dollar the 1 in 6 strike rate is still close if not worse nowadays.
leon davis would have meant we dont have to play an underperformer he probably would have given us much more value than a rookie pick who is more likely than not to ever get a game.
i laugh my head of when people regularly say no that bloke is to old to take with a late nd or rookie pick despite him being a proven player with 2 or 3 yrs to offer something.
clubs have to have both short term strategy useing cheap picks player swaps etc and long term strategy useing early picks to catch up and pass we must embrace all aspects of recruiting.
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I agree with you hear claw. We are now at a stage when we can take older players with our Rookie and PSD. These sort of players are almost always short term options. If you have a role that needs to be immediately filled or depth issues that need a band aid then this option is the right way to go. The second part of the issue though is that you then need to make sure you don't leave an equally difficult hole to fill when they inevitably retire/fall away. So the secret to drafting older recruits as Rookies is having younger/developing players moving up to take their place and pressure them to keep their place.
As always recruiting and list management is a balancing act.
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I agree with you hear claw. We are now at a stage when we can take older players with our Rookie and PSD. These sort of players are almost always short term options. If you have a role that needs to be immediately filled or depth issues that need a band aid then this option is the right way to go. The second part of the issue though is that you then need to make sure you don't leave an equally difficult hole to fill when they inevitably retire/fall away. So the secret to drafting older recruits as Rookies is having younger/developing players moving up to take their place and pressure them to keep their place.
As always recruiting and list management is a balancing act.
agree.
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atm we have about 15 who consistently perform near the level required. we have some kids who probably will step up and join those 15 but they arent there yet and there is no guarantee any of them will.
The list is capable of beating the 1st and 3rd teams, Sydney and Hawthorn. The list you describe is incapable of those wins.
There are no excuses for losing so many close games. There are no excuses for not playing the finals this year.
Putting Campbell on the field against North presents a serious coaching/communication issue. It took 16 rounds of denial to acknowledge there is a problem. This response was too little too late.
The club needs to take a more proactive approach. They cannot continue to employ someone who is learning on the job beyond the end of this season. Richmond needs an experienced proven coach who can get results with the playing list we have. Not the playing list we wish we had. They need to do everything in their power to get Mick Malthouse at the end of the season.
rubbish didnt melb beat wce.i suppose they are a top 8 list as well.
our list or best 22 are competetive but from about the 16th player it drops away far too much, if we lose say nahas and replace him with white its no big deal talent wise they are similar but if you bring in a white or nahas for say martin its a chasm. you need something inbetween. lose 3 or 4 of the better 16 and the side begins to fill up with duds and the burden is too much on those who are left.
if our 17th thru 22nd player was actually our 25th thru 30th player i could live with it.
we will remain competetive against most with our best 22 and they are all at or near their best it doesnt take much to go wrong and not be a realistic chance. finally even if a side makes the 8 it does not mean it has a good list or anything is sustainable.
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Stripes. Two main themes to your post.
First theme. Bad old days of sacking coaches. This is a fallacy. This excuse was used to keep Wallace and Frawley for so long.
Bartlett Sacking. Bad
Northey not being offered enough money. Bad
Walls sacking. 2 years too much.
Giesch sacking. How did he get appointed?
Frawley. Lasted too long.
Walliace Lasted too long.
Hardwick. Has had long enough to show something. Particularly on match day which has cost us another finals birth.
Second theme. Improvement
(The undeniable Tony Greenberg factor - he didn't have blinkers when he wrote for inside footy)
The Playing List. Improved enormously. With more funding in our recruitment department, more money in general and better facilities, it had to. PASS
Club culture. Connors, Martin White and Jackson. Riewoldt sooking like a big baby. It hasn't improved one bit. FAIL.
Discipline. 3 Goals from 50m penalties and 5 goals from free kicks on the weekend. Discipline has been as bad as the bad bad old days. FAIL.
Performance/Match Day Coaching. We lose every close game. FAIL
Player Development: Coburg FAIL. Existing senior player development. eg. white, mcguane. etc Fail. Young draftees, mid picks and rookies. First year of recruiting. FAIL. Need more time to see how the second and third year goes. Contrast this with mature age recruits who were developed elsewhere and you question our development system. Marginal change since Wallace era.
Media Management: So many silly statements. Loves to pass the buck to God, Players, Umpires, quality of opposition etc. Questions over honesty. Cringe worthy. FAIL.
The only area we have significantly improved in is the quality of our list. In every other facet we have gone backwards or improved marginally. Certainly at a slower rate than the teams above us.
A quality coach would have an enormous and instant impact on this list and subsequently win/loss ratios. I wish Hardwick was better. Wished Wallace and Frawley were better too. Doesn't change anything. What we need is for Richmond to be better.
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the issue with northey was not money, but extension of contract.
There was a lot of talk about northey not geting a contact renewal the next year, led by that trout moth mal brown, and when the club refused to give him an extension he took up the offer to coach the bears.
club culture - all clubs will have isolated incedents of individuals doing the wrong thing. richmonds culture problem has never been one of off field behavior, but on field. rewoldt is one player, not the club.
discipline. up until recently we have been pretty good on the filed in this area. again 1 individual's actions like jackson does not reflect that of the team.
loosing every close game. OK it's frustrating, but the fact we in close games is an improvement on getting smashed once the screws were applied. in three year we hav gone from a club that regularily got beaten by 10 plus goals and on some occasions 100 points. when was last time we had a percentage of 100 or more? the next step is to start nailing these games.
player development is a fail based on mcguane, white etc? seriously, not even macguiver could make stawberry jam out of poo