One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Broadsword on July 16, 2022, 07:28:04 PM
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Ok, now that we are officially a rubbish team again it's time to fantasize about list management during our return to the top.
RETIRE
Riewoldt
Edwards
Lambert
DELIST
Caddy
Castagna
Aarts
Parker
Trade
Ross
RCD
7 players could easily go just this year--and that's just for starters.
Good signs from Sonsie and Cumberland today.
If we can trade in some young A-grade mids and draft a couple of young KPFs then it might not hurt for too long--but we need young guys with upside who can run out games now.
Taranto, Hopper, Fogarty ...
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I wouldn't retire Jack. He can't be main forward. We need another tall forward when Lynch isn't there. It is not Balta.
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Personally think a dumb club like Essendon or North would take Castagna for a 3rd.
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Ok, now that we are officially a rubbish team again it's time to fantasize about list management during our return to the top.
RETIRE
Riewoldt
Edwards
Lambert
DELIST
Caddy
Castagna
Aarts
Parker
Trade
Ross
RCD
7 players could easily go just this year--and that's just for starters.
Good signs from Sonsie and Cumberland today.
If we can trade in some young A-grade mids and draft a couple of young KPFs then it might not hurt for too long--but we need young guys with upside who can run out games now.
Taranto, Hopper, Fogarty ...
Agree with pretty much all of that.
There’s a lot that needs to be done.
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Merge with my other thread same.topic.
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So with bakes resigning we’ve now got the following players out of contract at years end.
Cotch
Edwards
Riewoldt
RCD
Cumberland
Martyn
D.Rioli
MRJ
Ross
Stack
Aarts
Pickett
Miller
Biggy
Colina?
The 3 champs are either going to retire or sign 1 year extensions at the end of the season.
Think D.Rioli will be the next priority resigning and everyone else will need to wait until the end of the season.
Can honestly see all the rest except Martyn being offered extensions. You could say Aarts shouldn’t be offered but if he keeps getting games above the others on the list then surely they’d be gone before him. RCD and Stack are the interesting ones for me. Not getting a look in for the most part but maybe they see the light at the end of the tunnel with a few retirements on the way.
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starting point for me is the numbers we have in each area ie mids breaking them down to type inside, outside, both, and size, small 182cm and under, med 183cm - 189 and tall 190+. Then its age longevity and quality.
The club has the following players named as mids
Prestia, Bolton, Sonsie, Dow short, Graham Edwards. All smalls imo
Cotchin, Ross, Pickett, Martin as mediums imo.
McIntosh, RC-D at tall mids imo.
Just in numbers i think we are 3 or 4 mids shy of where we need to be. Especially bigger medium and tall mids where the numbers are low. But age with Cotchin, Martin, and Pickett all at least 30 next year and being in a group of just 4 medium mids is perilous.
Imo this is exacerbated by McIntosh just being average and RC-D possibly gone as we dont seem to rate him at all.
Can do it for all types and we do need to break down the roles especially with the talls on the list.
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Just in numbers i think we are 3 or 4 mids shy of where we need to be. Especially bigger medium and tall mids where the numbers are low but age with Cotchin, Martin, and Pickett all at least 30 next year and being in a group of just 4 medium mids.
Imo this is exacerbated by McIntosh just being average and RC-D possibly gone as we dont seem to rate him at all.
Agree very much with this. It's nice to be able to mix things up at a stoppage or center clearance by throwing the smaller, clever types like Edwards, Bolton, and Baker in there, but they can't be doing the bulk of the work. Need bigger bodies desperately.
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Hardwick is aware that the roster he won three flags with is in transition and tough calls will have to be made, with clubs often fond of staggering retirements.
Cotchin believes he is playing well enough to earn another contract – Hardwick said he was having a ‘great’ year – and Riewoldt hinted he would continue, while Edwards planned to join the management team from the list of retired Tigers.
But when Edwards will make that leap is yet to be determined.
“Kane Lambert has retired and we’re going to work our way through those other decisions with those players,” he said.
“They have been exceptional servants to us. But the first thing we have to think about is what is the best thing for Richmond Football Club.
“These players understand how it works; they were part of that system and created that system for what it is today. So what does it look like moving forward? we have time.
Source: West Australian (https://thewest.com.au/news/afl-richmond-coach-damien-hardwick-hopes-star-tiger-shai-boltons-contract-will-be-extended-soon-c-7755434).
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Good news only Cotch and Jack to go on.
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Over the next few years id hope we look to actually realign the list as far as size goes.
By that i mean look at the numbers of small, mediums,and talls we have. Imo it is way out of kilter with way too many smalls.
I reckon we have so many smalls because its easier to find an okay player there than it is with mediums and talls. In some ways it has become a sort of mantra with us where its better to play a small who will give you something than a tall who will give little. The trouble with that is you tend to keep taking smalls rather than doing the hard yards with the others.
How many smalls do we need at the most two small defenders especially when most clubs are lucky to have one in the team.
Small fwds id say two maybe three specialist small fwds that does not include your classy small mids who have a nose for goals.
Of course your classy and also nuggety small mids, the number imo depends on the quality and versatility here. One thing for sure though these small mids need bigger medium and tall mids to bear the bulk of the load.
I count 16 smalls and imo that should be closer to around 10. What happens with so many smalls is you tend to be light on for Talls and mediums and that is certainly the case with us.
Your medium sized players are the key to your list we have just 12 and Caddy and Parker are now retired that number is down to just 10.
Throw in two facts W Martyn J Ross are under the pump,and have to take steps up or could easily be gone. imo it does not look good with either. Also RC-D a big tall mid at 191cm one of just two we have is probably gone as well.
Then throw in Cotchin if he goes again will be 33 next year, picket will be 31 Dusty will be 31.In the blink of an eye we could be down to as few as 6 or 7 medium sized players.
Excluding the two tall mids we have we have just 12 talls imo this should be closer to 16.
Imo the breakdown should go 4 KPF, 4 KPD, 2 Tall FWDS, 2 Tall DEF. 3 Rucks 1 ruck/fwd.
We have
2 KPF, 1 Tall FWD. In a bit of trouble here given Riewoldts age
5KPD, 2 Tall DEF. including 33yo Tarrant and Balta who could become a fwd who knows so the numbers are good given Tarrant will retire in a year. Grimes as a Tall def is also 31 and Broad is 29. Probably should be looking at a similar type and size to Grimes.
With Cumberland and Parker retireing we have just the one medium sized fwd and cumberland at 183 is a small medium. we could do with another one here at the end of the scale.
Just a few thoughts on it people may disagree but i think we suffer in games because of our size and all the rule changes have not helped us.
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Cumberland at 183 is a small.
Medium I'm thinking probably at least 185-192. Jack not overly tall but always played tall due to aerial ability.
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Yep 6 foot tall , Cumberland has very good hands / marking so probably plays as a medium / small but either way we are light on forwards over 6 foot
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Well a few months have changed some things.
2022 retirements
Caddy tick or was to be traded/delisted anyway
Lambert a year earlier than I hoped but tick
Edwards needs to happy
2023 retirements
Jack another year
Cotch another year
Tarrant contracted and looking good but he's old
Prestia has got his body right and looks the goods so keep for me until he's cooked.
Remove Cumberland from the Delistings. Keep the rest on that list TBH.
Take Rioli off the trade table.
Trade or delist Castagna.
Even for the most optimistic supporters I think the writing must be on the wall now. Timing your run still means winning games like Carlton and Saints when you have handy leads in the 3rd quarter but we have clearly lost our ability to run out games against even modestly talented teams.
I suspect this is because the oldies are too old and the youngsters are too green or not good enough.
Lots of retirements and delistings should be on the agenda IMO. Even if we stagger the retirements I'd like to see something like this:
2022 retirements
Cotchin
Riewoldt
Edwards
2023 retirements
Lambert
Prestia (would like to negotiate an early retirement here)
Tarrant (going fine now but we need a kid here)
2022 delistings
RCD
Martyn
Aarts
Ross
Nyuon
Cumberland
Stack
Kids who need to have a shot at the expense of older blokes
Miller
Mansell
Rest of the 2021 draftees
Trade bait
Rioli
Castagna
Caddy
Unfortunately not a lot to get excited about IMO, bar Balta and Bolton. Both have flags and might look elsewhere.
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While we can posit who we would like to trade keep delist I suspect injuries will force our hand on a few of the older ones. Prestia and Grimes come to mind. Lambert and Caddy are already gone due to body issues. And it's only after the retirements due to old age that we can look at the rest.
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I agree , players should be judged on their ability to perform. If due to regular injury or they can’t keep up, completely lose their speed not just because they are over 30
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Grimesy wasnt the same player over last 6 weeks. Time is catching up with him imho. This hammy wont help him either.
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Cumberland at 183 is a small.
Medium I'm thinking probably at least 185-192. Jack not overly tall but always played tall due to aerial ability.
I normally go anyone under 6ft as a small. This is a little bit out of whack of what the industry tends to call small as they tend to say anyone under 180cm. At the end of the day its just an inch.
Bottom line is its generally correct but still used as a starting point for defining numbers in each area.
Smalls for me have always gone 182cm and under. Mediums 183 -189, Talls 190cm plus.
That for me makes Cumberland a Medium at the lower end of the scale for mediums.
An example of a player type and size we dont have as a fwd is Bayley Fritsch at 188cm or Gary rohan who i dont rate is another who plays differently to Fritsch at 189cm.
We just don't have a medium fwd in our system at that end of the scale apart from Parker who is ordinary and now retired.
KPP can be 190 193cm but generally they are powerfully built and are closer to 100kg which allows them to regularly compete as kpd's.
I think players around 190 - 193 are tall and they mostly lack the size as well to play kpp regularly. A good example of this is our Dylan Grimes and Nathan Broad. Grimesy can definately play kp if we need him to but everyone will agree that is not ideal on a regular basis.
I think its important to break down the list into as many roles as possible and as best as possible define between kpp and just tall.
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What we lack as far as list structure goes imo of course.
2 KPF Possibly 3 with Riewoldt very close to retirement.
1 Tall fwd not urgent but we only have Bauer on the list atm.
2 Medium Fwd. We have just Cumberland and as spoken about he is just 183cm and a small medium.
0 Small fwds. Moving fwd we have Stack, Rioli, Clarke and the small medium Cumberland. Also Bolton.
Most of the above needs can be gained simply by replacing Castagna, Aarts, Lambert, and Parker all classified as forwards by the club.
It helps in the realignment and balancing out of size in forwards as most of those cut are small.
0 KPD,S. We have Tarrant, Balta, Miller, Nyuon, Gibcus. We are set up well in this area depending on how well Miller and Nyuon progress.
1 TALL DEF. Grimes is 31 and Broad is 29 would like a junior in development to replace them when they retire.
0 MED DEF. We have Vlastuin, Brown, Banks, Ralphsmith.
0 SML DEF. We have Baker, Short, Rioli, Mansell. Stack?
Between the Medium and small defenders we have plenty of run would like to targett a tough hard quick no compromise shut down defender
0 Rucks. We have 4 Nankervis, Soldo, Ryan, Colina. Plenty of numbers but a question about the quality.So maybe we look for a quality junior.
1 RUCK/FWD. Dont have one and maybe we cut one of the rucks we have and go after a quality one as mentioned above.
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Id like to see us go with either 4 or 5 picks to the national draft. 2 picks on mids. 2 picks on key forwards. 1 pick on a developing ruck. I think we dont we really need to draft a ruck but the club will decide. The 2 mids and 2 key forwards are almost non negotiable imho.
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Caro on Footy Classified last night said Cotchin is likely to play on next year. He will need to take a big pay cut though.
She also expects Jack will go on too.
Jack Riewoldt:
2020* 2021 2022
Marks 4.5 4.9 5.1
Marks inside 50 2.6 3.1 2.6
Score involvements 5.0 6.0 5.8
Goals 2.0 2.3 2.0
Trent Cotchin:
2020* 2021 2022
Disposals 22.9 20.8 22.6
Metres gained 349 296 258
Clearances 5.4 4.0 4.9
Tackles 4.0 3.4 2.9
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Grimesy wasnt the same player over last 6 weeks. Time is catching up with him imho. This hammy wont help him either.
I do not know for certain but I suspect he has a shoulder problem and has been managing this for some weeks now
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Cumberland, Sonsie and Miller all just re-signed for two years each.
I think this is great news. All have shown plenty of promise in the later half of this year and I am pumped about them.
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Caro on Footy Classified last night said Cotchin is likely to play on next year. He will need to take a big pay cut though.
She also expects Jack will go on too.
Jack Riewoldt:
2020* 2021 2022
Marks 4.5 4.9 5.1
Marks inside 50 2.6 3.1 2.6
Score involvements 5.0 6.0 5.8
Goals 2.0 2.3 2.0
Trent Cotchin:
2020* 2021 2022
Disposals 22.9 20.8 22.6
Metres gained 349 296 258
Clearances 5.4 4.0 4.9
Tackles 4.0 3.4 2.9
I wonder what they're getting paid now but they wouldn't be on a lot to go another year. Probably what $300k? Wouldn't expect full seasons from them either maybe 15 games each.
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I wonder what they're getting paid now but they wouldn't be on a lot to go another year. Probably what $300k? Wouldn't expect full seasons from them either maybe 15 games each.
Would be pretty disrespectful to offer them 300k. At least 500k each I would say.
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They won't be getting 500k. They'll get 350-380k.
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The next dynasty team coming through. :)
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Im really happy for the 3 boys especially Ben. Hes worked really hard to get to this point. Massive amount of resilience and getting rewarded for it. Well done to all 3.
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https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1194596/emerging-trio-sign-richmond-extensions
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They won't be getting 500k. They'll get 350-380k.
You really think Cotch and Jack will be on 350-380k??
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https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1194596/emerging-trio-sign-richmond-extensions
This is really great news, I'm really impressed with all 3 of them! :clapping
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They won't be getting 500k. They'll get 350-380k.
You really think Cotch and Jack will be on 350-380k??
I do they understand there in twilight of there career.
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$500K for 22 games is pretty similar to $350K for 15 games. So depends on how the club plans to utilise them through 2023
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I wonder what they're getting paid now but they wouldn't be on a lot to go another year. Probably what $300k? Wouldn't expect full seasons from them either maybe 15 games each.
Would be pretty disrespectful to offer them 300k. At least 500k each I would say.
No way mate lol.
They've been well paid during their careers, earning up to 800-900k/year at times.
This is just play money to them now. They enjoy playing and mentoring kids. Club should be reducing dependence on them by keeping them to 15 games or so.
$300k is reasonable and appropriate. If they want $500k each I'd be quite reluctant. Both are a decent injury away from retirement.
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So we have lost 2 mids this year in lambert and edwards. Caddy never played anyway.
Looks like we have a player in sonesie.
Can Graham walk into an inside mid role ? Cotch would have 1 year left at best.
Dusty if he plays on won’t have much midfield time left in him.
I would say we need to recruit some quality mids if we are gonna ignore RCD and stack who both have the capacity to play midfield IMO.
I think we can rely on balta and Miller to hold down our defence with gibcus coming through as well.
We need some big forwards ASAP. That’s gotta be a priority.
Inside mids and key forwards !
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Sheesh there is some nonsense in these threads.
Right at this moment Cotchin is our second best mid behind only Prestia. The last time i looked JR is one of only FREAKIN TWO KPF'S we have and is still going at two goals a game.
If we pay em on worth and output then they will both continue to be well paid.
Pardon me if im wrong but werent Trent and Jack two of several players who took pay cuts to fit others in. Hmm a word comes to mind its called culture.
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Richmond
The Tigers have enjoyed a busy period of re-signings in recent weeks but still have some critical calls to make come their off-season. Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt are yet to know their status for 2023, while youngster Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross, Maurice Rioli Junior and Sydney Stack are unsigned.
Off-contract: Jake Aarts, Mate Colina, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Trent Cotchin (unrestricted free agent), Will Martyn, Bigoa Nyuon (unrestricted free agent), Jack Riewoldt (unrestricted free agent), Maurice Rioli, Jack Ross, Sydney Stack.
https://www.zerohanger.com/every-afl-player-still-uncontracted-for-2023-126144/
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I think the following will be fortunate to have a contract next year:
Aarts, Martyn and RCD. Include the 4 retired players that's 7 changes to the list. Add Bauer and we have 6 open spots. Draft 3-4 and bring in 2 via trade should do it.
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I'd be moving on Aarts, Martyn at a minimum. Biggie might be worth keeping as depth.
Cotch 100% re-sign. Jack I think will go again while Bauer develops more.
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Richmond
The Tigers have enjoyed a busy period of re-signings in recent weeks but still have some critical calls to make come their off-season. Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt are yet to know their status for 2023, while youngster Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross, Maurice Rioli Junior and Sydney Stack are unsigned.
Off-contract: Jake Aarts, Mate Colina, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Trent Cotchin (unrestricted free agent), Will Martyn, Bigoa Nyuon (unrestricted free agent), Jack Riewoldt (unrestricted free agent), Maurice Rioli, Jack Ross, Sydney Stack.
https://www.zerohanger.com/every-afl-player-still-uncontracted-for-2023-126144/
Aarts - Keep (1 year contract - put back on Rookie List if he isn't on their already, depth player @ VFL)
Colina - Keep (1 year contract - leave on Rookie List developing)
Collier-Dawkins - Trade/Keep (trade for 2nd Round Pick to GWS/1 year contract if no trade)
Cotchin - 1 year contract on $350,000
Martyn - Delisted
Nyuon - 1 year contract - put on Rookie List if he isn't on their already.
Riewoldt - 1 year contract on $350,000
M.Rioli - 3 year contract on $250,000-$350,000
Ross - 1-2 year contract on $250,000-$350,000
Stack - 1-2 year contract on Rookie List
Miller, Cumberland, Pickett - elevated onto Senior List.
Stack, Nyuon, Aarts, Colina - put on Rookie List
Next Year - 2023
Castanga - Delisted
Cotchin - Retired
Riewoldt - Retired
Aarts - Delisted
Collier-Dawkins (if on the list) - Delisted
Nyuon - Delisted
Grimes - (may) Retire
That will be 5 players off the Senior List and 2 off Rookie List and with Bolton's contract ending, we need to lock him in long term! So Cotchin, Riewoldt and Grimes's salary will go to him.
:gotigers
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Any players from Essendon we would consider trying to bring over ? Could be a few players looking to get out
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Any players from Essendon we would consider trying to bring over ? Could be a few players looking to get out
Can't think of any tbh
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Harrison Jones in the right environment might be worth investigation.
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Any players from Essendon we would consider trying to bring over ? Could be a few players looking to get out
Sam Durham & Mass D'Ambrosio, both know where PRO is :)
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Any players from Essendon we would consider trying to bring over ? Could be a few players looking to get out
I’d take their Ruckman Draper, I like how he goes about it.
I’d also look at Zach Merrett and 2 metre Peter.
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Those remaining out of contract:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired/retiring: Caddy, Lambert, Parker (rookie), Edwards.
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Could RCD be moving to another club, would make sense for those wonder why he didn’t get a go this year
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Could RCD be moving to another club, would make sense for those wonder why he didn’t get a go this year
Ummm...no. to your 2nd statement
For the first part yes, pretty clear based on today's signongs he's going to be put up for trade
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Could RCD be moving to another club, would make sense for those wonder why he didn’t get a go this year
Ummm...no. to your 2nd statement
For the first part yes, pretty clear based on today's signongs he's going to be put up for trade
He’ll be part of the Taranto trade 😉
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Those remaining out of contract:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired/retiring: Caddy, Lambert, Parker (rookie), Edwards.
Expecting:
Cotch & Riewoldt 1 year extensions
RCD traded or delisted
Martyn delisted
Stack delisted and re-drafted again as a rookie
Aarts delisted (possibly joins vfl program again)
Biggie 1 year cat A rookie extension
Colina 1 year cat B rookie extension
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Those remaining out of contract:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired/retiring: Caddy, Lambert, Parker (rookie), Edwards.
Expecting:
Cotch & Riewoldt 1 year extensions
RCD traded or delisted
Martyn delisted
Stack delisted and re-drafted again as a rookie
Aarts delisted (possibly joins vfl program again)
Biggie 1 year cat A rookie extension
Colina 1 year cat B rookie extension
Exactly what I'm hoping for
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Those remaining out of contract:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired/retiring: Caddy, Lambert, Parker (rookie), Edwards.
Expecting:
Cotch & Riewoldt 1 year extensions
RCD traded or delisted
Martyn delisted
Stack delisted and re-drafted again as a rookie
Aarts delisted (possibly joins vfl program again)
Biggie 1 year cat A rookie extension
Colina 1 year cat B rookie extension
Stack is already on rookie list
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Those remaining out of contract:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired/retiring: Caddy, Lambert, Parker (rookie), Edwards.
Expecting:
Cotch & Riewoldt 1 year extensions
RCD traded or delisted
Martyn delisted
Stack delisted and re-drafted again as a rookie
Aarts delisted (possibly joins vfl program again)
Biggie 1 year cat A rookie extension
Colina 1 year cat B rookie extension
Stack is already on rookie list
Yeah but it’s his 4th year now. Either he has to be promoted to the primary list or delisted and re-rookied.
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
I would find a home for George and put a big name for trade get a early pick.
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
I would find a home for George and put a big name for trade get a early pick.
Which big name??
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
I would find a home for George and put a big name for trade get a early pick.
Which big name??
Short or Graham.
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Happy to trade Graham. I think he's peaked and has less benefits than Short.
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Neither are going anywhere.
Notwithstanding what he brings to our team, short signed a 5 year contract this season. Would hate to become a team who commits long term to players only to try to farm them off not long after.
Not sure what the benefit of trading graham is either. He’s no world beater but he is a good player who plays his role. Besides we wouldn’t be getting a first rounder for him anyway.
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Neither are going anywhere.
Notwithstanding what he brings to our team, short signed a 5 year contract this season. Would hate to become a team who commits long term to players only to try to farm them off not long after.
Not sure what the benefit of trading graham is either. He’s no world beater but he is a good player who plays his role. Besides we wouldn’t be getting a first rounder for him anyway.
Spot on
Both are rated incredibly highly within the "4 walls" of the Club.
So I don't think either will be going anywhere
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
Are you talking 7 or 8 changes to this weeks team or the list.
You normally want to turn over 15-20
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Will be loosing quality picks for Taranto we need to get back in this draft what do you suggest ?.
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
Are you talking 7 or 8 changes to this weeks team or the list.
You normally want to turn over 15-20
Hmm yes i do !!!! Rather than argue lets just say i always bring up who i think are most vulnerable it is usually a pile but its not over one year. If your implying i want 15 20 players dropped in one year every year then id say your being deliberately disingenuous.
I could name close to 20 odd again who i think we should be at least looking at to value add on what they offer.
This year i think the club will cut trade retire 7 or 8 players, personally i think 9 should be a minimum..
Id be going and 4 decisions have been made for us.
Caddy, Lambert, Edwards, Parker all retired. from here its just 5 players.
Obviously Aarts, for me.
Castagna even though they just resigned him.
Martyn a big mid and can only get a kick across hb in the vfl.
RC-D Riley will be 23 5 yrs in and to date cannot even get picked for games, imo i think he will get there, but he has to be in trouble. Stack and Mansell will want out imo too good not to be getting regular games..
Dow and Nyuon must be in the spotlight as well.
Just okay players who id be looking to replace thru upgrades over time are
Soldo if a club offered something decent for him id take it.
Ross still young is never going to be a top liner hopefully he can become consistent.
Short well people know my thoughts on him and he would get us something in a trade.
McIntosh is already 28 and for the role he has played has just never been rounded enough for me.
Graham another who is servicable but lacking in areas and limited.
Then of course you have the oldies who are going to be gone in say two seasons if not earlier. Surely we have an eye on this
Cotchin playing well enough atm, But signs are there.
Riewoldt 34 at the end of the season still kicks some goals but there have been a lot of signs that he is in decline.
Tarrant is also 34 in april has to be getting close to retirement.
Grimesy is 31 and injuries are starting to come back.
Even with Lambert, Caddy, and Edwards retired, 12 of our starting 22 will be 28 years or older.
There will come a point where 5 or 6 pick changes each year will not be enough to offset the need to regenerate.
(edited to correct quote)
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Cotchin and Riewoldt are both keen to play on and the Club wants them to play on.
They would have to take a pay cut which is something they and the Club will have to work on in the coming weeks.
Source: Jon Ralph on Fox Footy last night.
(http://oneeyed-richmond.com/images/richmond/CotchJackWantToPlayOn-JonRalphreport02092022.png)
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Fine by me
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Last year the average number of delist, trade, retire was 8.7 per club. That included blokes who were cut and retaken as rookies, ie Cumberland and Nyuon with us. That still meant 7 changes to the list for us.
The least number of changes last year was 6 on two occasions.
Reckon at the least we are looking at 7 maybe 8 changes.
There is one contracted player on the list i would cut but it won't happen.
Are you talking 7 or 8 changes to this weeks team or the list.
You normally want to turn over 15-20
Hmm yes i do !!!! Rather than argue lets just say i always bring up who i think are most vulnerable it is usually a pile but its not over one year. If your implying i want 15 20 players dropped in one year every year then id say your being deliberately disingenuous.
I could name close to 20 odd again who i think we should be at least looking at to value add on what they offer.
This year i think the club will cut trade retire 7 or 8 players, personally i think 9 should be a minimum..
Id be going and 4 decisions have been made for us.
Caddy, Lambert, Edwards, Parker all retired. from here its just 5 players.
Obviously Aarts, for me.
Castagna even though they just resigned him.
Martyn a big mid and can only get a kick across hb in the vfl.
RC-D Riley will be 23 5 yrs in and to date cannot even get picked for games, imo i think he will get there, but he has to be in trouble. Stack and Mansell will want out imo too good not to be getting regular games..
Dow and Nyuon must be in the spotlight as well.
Just okay players who id be looking to replace thru upgrades over time are
Soldo if a club offered something decent for him id take it.
Ross still young is never going to be a top liner hopefully he can become consistent.
Short well people know my thoughts on him and he would get us something in a trade.
McIntosh is already 28 and for the role he has played has just never been rounded enough for me.
Graham another who is servicable but lacking in areas and limited.
Then of course you have the oldies who are going to be gone in say two seasons if not earlier. Surely we have an eye on this
Cotchin playing well enough atm, But signs are there.
Riewoldt 34 at the end of the season still kicks some goals but there have been a lot of signs that he is in decline.
Tarrant is also 34 in april has to be getting close to retirement.
Grimesy is 31 and injuries are starting to come back.
Even with Lambert, Caddy, and Edwards retired, 12 of our starting 22 will be 28 years or older.
There will come a point where 5 or 6 pick changes each year will not be enough to offset the need to regenerate.
(edited to correct quote)
Agree Claw, plus Prestia is going to struggle injury wise I think.
We have holes everywhere.
Looking forward 2024 will be a disaster with the number of likely retirements.
RCD must have run Dimmers dog over, he has been performing well over the last 2 months.
Stack needs to be in the mix. These are 2 players we will probably lose.
Personally I feel our downward spiral is going to be massive.
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I think they wait until all the aged players who are going to retire do. Prestia is so injury prone he may step away. Then and only then drop up to 7. It's not like you can find 9 kids who will make it in one year.
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Neither are going anywhere.
Notwithstanding what he brings to our team, short signed a 5 year contract this season. Would hate to become a team who commits long term to players only to try to farm them off not long after.
Not sure what the benefit of trading graham is either. He’s no world beater but he is a good player who plays his role. Besides we wouldn’t be getting a first rounder for him anyway.
Spot on
Both are rated incredibly highly within the "4 walls" of the Club.
So I don't think either will be going anywhere
Both are strong clubmen.
Trade clubmen at your peril it can sometimes derail the club.
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Good post , see how north and hawthorn went by cleaning them out
The young players need the mentoring and protection for a few years
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The decline was bound to come it's part of the industry so don't know why people are surprised and scared. Some of our champions are once in a generation players to.The rejuvenation has began through for me besides Lynch ,Prestia and Cotchin at times we have been less relied on our senior players in 2022.
Got to keep drafting and rejuvenate with kids with our senior players we got a great hand 12 ,19 and 30 I'm hesitant to use them.in Taranto.
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Fine by me
Me too.
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Good post , see how north and hawthorn went by cleaning them out
The young players need the mentoring and protection for a few years
Dont buy it about Hawthorn.
Their last flag in 2015 was aged 27yr and 303days. Sounds familiar eh.
At the end of 2019 4 years on they still had about 10 or 12 of their premieship players playing.It was not a mass exodus of senior players it has occured over 7 seasons and most who have gone actually needed to retire.
Even with stalwarts like Hodge and Mitchell going lewis Birchall i don't think they have been left bereft of experience
Your obviously refering to the players who went to other clubs wanting to go around again.
Mitchell left end of 2016 aged almost 33. and it was just one year. After that he was to take on a coaching role as part of the deal.
Lewis also left in 2016 aged 30 he still had seasons left in him imo.
Hodge left end of 2017 aged 33 they are the big names who probably wanted to stay but in no way did it leave the hawks bereft of experience they had a plethora of experienced players.
Others who probably got pushed Smith was 32 when he left end of 2020, Birchall was 31 end of 2019, Frawley was 32 end of 2020 he played just 2 games after leaving. Smith aside they were shot imo.
Did it leave em bereft of experienced players nope they still had Burgoyne, T Mitchell Shiels, McEvoy, Puopolo, Impey, Obrien, Henderson, Ceglar, Wingard, Omeara, Scully, Sicily Gunston Frost who they just got, Bruest. That is a still a decent core of mostly 26 plus year olds thru to the end of 2020.
The simple truth is as players at hawthorn have reached 30 they have mostly retired on their terms.
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I don’t thinks so, I believe your arguing with yourself by confirming a lot of those mentioned continued to play in sides that used them to mentor their kids and showed more improvement than Hawthorn , letting Hodge leave especially ,Mitchell , Lewis etc go was a mistake imo. A lot of the more highly rated players who left Hawthorn had more to give , bad mistake by Kennet and Clarkson
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Tom Browne on 7news:
Exit interviews tomorrow and Tuesday.
Taranto will obviously go to Richmond, so the big question now is can Richmond afford to keep both out of contract veterans Cotchin and Riewoldt?
Cotchin will stay on a one-year deal.
Riewoldt can stay provided he's willing to accept a lot less money.
Go to 0:50 min mark: https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/status/1566348033645654016
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Guys, just my opinion but our trade value sits with RCD (what a shame he doesn't have the grit we need has all the tools but doesn't seem to have the mental toughness), Soldo (a lot of clubs would pay for a tap ruck who can go forward especially GWS where Kingsley would value him)), Martyn (he has not cracked it and is well behind on the half back line), Ralphsmith (young and impressive one we really wouldn't want to loose but he would be a valuable get for many sides), Stack (just hasn't reached his potential and may have some appeal across in WA), Aarts (I thin k he will be part of our clean out and may end up in Qkld for very little return ) and dare I say it Short (yes I know he is a B&F winner but you have to give something to get something and he would be very appealing to many as an attacking Midfielder/Half back) ... expect some rockets coming my way on some of these!!
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I think we are placed somewhere between where the Hawks were in 2018 and where the Cats were 2 years ago.
This year has been a step change forward for younger players Ben Miller, MRJ, Sonsie, Cumberland and Gibcus who was sensational for a first year key position player.
I will get howled down but Jack Ross looked the part in the final and also vs Cats so we know he can play it’s now reducing the gap between best and worst. Think Tom Atkins and let’s watch this space.
We have Tom Brown, Sam Banks and Judson Clark cooling their heels in the 2’s so lets see what they can deliver.
The spine is still good and there’s no point worrying about ageing players - Geelong don’t and look where that has landed them. I think the forum should shift a little more optimistically toward supporting our veterans with Grimes, Jack, Cotch, Meatie, Nank, Lynch, Pickett and Tarrant all more than capable of a strong 2023. There’s 20 flags between that crop of players - it’s once a generation stuff in term of talent being matched by output.
The middle tier is solid but where I see the gap in our age profile with Graham, Baker, Balta, Bolton, Vlas, Shorty and Rioli giving us a good core group but a few within that group haven’t come on as I’d hoped - I worry players like Shorty, Vlas and Graham are a bit up and down still - not as dependant as I would have assumed
Positionally, our issue is in the midfield with Taranto, hopefully a breakthrough year from Ross and Sonsie continuing to improve helping to provide depth.
Our back up key forward and backs is a bit shallow but we have versatility with Balta and Gibcus which helps.
Overall, the list shapes up as less of an issue than our coaching which I think went backwards. For a coaching group that prided itself on learning from mistakes, there were a heap that were reoccurring with last Thursday’s finish to the game becoming a perfect example of what we are at as a team.
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I don’t thinks so, I believe your arguing with yourself by confirming a lot of those mentioned continued to play in sides that used them to mentor their kids and showed more improvement than Hawthorn , letting Hodge leave especially ,Mitchell , Lewis etc go was a mistake imo. A lot of the more highly rated players who left Hawthorn had more to give , bad mistake by Kennet and Clarkson
I think you overlook the fact they still had a lot of experienced players there to do the mentoring. Of course most sides after 2015 were going to improve more than the Hawks what did you expect it was an end of a dynasty and they had a whole pile of vets nearing the end.
They had so many experienced players they had to push some out the door who still had a little bit to offer. FFS Mitchell was 34 when he went to WCE and he had one underwhelming season, the deal was they would give him the season and he would then take on an assistent coaches role with them. It was a way to ensure they got the assistant coach they wanted.
Hodge was 33 fmd he played just two season with Brisbane and they were well down on his best. Of course Brisbane were happy to get his experience, they had made finals just once since they lost the flag in 2004 and that was 2009. They had young players coming thru who needed a mentor. The Hawks didnt they had more than enough blokes with finals and premierships just look at the plethora of experienced players on their list still in 2018 to do the mentoring.
T Mitchell, Shiels, Smith, Omeara, Henderson, Gunston,Impey Bruest, Roughead, Burgoyne, Stratton, Frawley, Puopolo, McEvoy, Duryea, O'Brien, Ceglar, Schoenmakers, Rioli.
That not enough premiership players for you.that not enough experience for you. Mate Hawthorn did what they had to do and like all clubs who spend significant time at the top and eke out the last drop from their better players they go into decline.
It will happen to us and of course we will have supporters lamenting the lack of experience.
Hawthorn was not sacking older players left right and centre as you suggest, they were eased out over a period of time 7 seasons.. Yep there was a few who thought they had something to offer still and ended up at other clubs good on em that happens all the time as well.
For mine the only one who was a mistake was Lewis.
When you say look at how Hawthorn went after cleaning them out. Well that implies they got rid of all of their experienced players real quick and it is just patently wrong. It also implies they were not having to go into rebuild.
In 2015 the end of their Dynasty after three in a row, a Dynasty that can be traced back to 2004 the average age of their premiership side was 27yrs and 303days. It was a very old team. Yet 7 yrs on they still had 4 players this year who played in that team obviously all were in their 30's.
Are we any different well lets go back 5 years to the end of 2017. It is a closer time line but the major difference is it was the start of our dynasty not the end.
we have lost 10 players from the 17 flag. a younger team by two yrs by the way. it was aged 25yrs 43 days.
Who remain Martin 31, Grimes 31, Cotchin 33, Riewoldt 34, Prestia 30, Nankervis 28, Vlastuin and McIntosh both will be 29 basically at the start of next season Broad will be in the same boat will be 30.
Rioli 25, Graham 25 and Castagna 26 could well be the only ones left in two seasons time the same time line as Hawthorn. It is not all that different to Hawthorn. Id call it natural attrition thru age..
No they did not just throw all the experience out in a rush. What has happened is they have not had the same quality coming in that went out and we are the same.
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You miss the point , age and experience as a player does not make a leader. The only players at Hawthorn that showed leadership and not at the same level were McEvoy and Roughhead
People like Hodge guided Brisbane to become the competitive side they are today, Mitchell picked to coach, Lewis helped Melbourne and is picking the coach at Essendon.
By moving them all on instead of one at a time led to them lose their a lot of soul and they are dwelling at bottom for years now as they lost true mentors
So who are the genuine leaders at Richmond, the ones who lead by actions and words, two go this year in Lambert and Edwards and I don’t believe we should push more out before others step up.
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Reckon we will have to agree to disagree.
Personally think your reading more into those departures than is warranted.
A good example is our Shaun Grigg everyone knew he had an astute footy brain when he retired. Why didn't we offer him a role"
there are several very simple reasons he needed to get outside our system and learn about other systems and there was just not a place for him.
Always a difficult situation having a player suddenly thrust into the role of coaching his mates.
Mitchell and Hodge were no different. They were not going to coach at Hawthorn and that is what Mitchell in particular wanted to do he had to do an apprenticeship.
Hodgey wanted to go around for another season he did not want to hang up the boots a bit like us with Houli he wanted to go around again.
Brisbane were happy to give him the extra years as they needed someone with his experiences. Hawthorn did not. Fob it off if you like but the list of players i named still there were part of a very successful culture its like you saying oh well we won't miss Lambert or Houli they had nothing to offer anyway. Your saying that about the players who remained.
Instead of admitting that hey maybe ive got this wrong your diverting from the facts. Hawthorn had an ABUNDANCE of experienced players still at their club who continued to mentor younger players.
As i said i think we will just have to agree to disagree.
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I will let Hawthorns results since they left and the lack of talent stepping up back my argument
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I will let Hawthorns results since they left and the lack of talent stepping up back my argument
Well will you do the same when the cotchins Riewoldts etc are all gone as well.
Will say again im shocked your expectations of them doing well and not bottoming out after so long at the top really has me dumbfounded.
Which direction did you really expect them to head having been deprived of early picks for so long with so many older players getting them to their third flag.
Their lack of talent stepping up like us comes from being near the top every year. The top quality is usually gone when it comes to the draft
. They also paid a pricefor trading good picks at the end of a dynasty for players like i suppose Tom Mitchel and in particular Wingard.
When it was clear they had to go into full on rebuild.
We are at the end of our Dynasty it looks like we are going down the same path.
Bottom line is you are in denial. You won't admit they had a shedload of experienced players at their club when Hodge mitchell lewis went back in 2016 2017
and then when you are confronted with the players who were there you fob those players off as not being any good and poor mentors.
Truth is 17 of the 22 players who played in the 2015 g/f played into their 30's for Hawthorn. They werent cutting players willy nilly they were getting as much as they could out of them for as long as they could.
Maybe there is a lesson there about hanging onto players for too long rather than getting rid of them too soon.
The 5 who did not get to 30 were
Duryea left at the end of 2018 for better opportunity i believe writing was on the wall.
B Hill had issues with wife wanting to go home Hawthorn accomodated the 23yo at the end of 2019. As soft as they come was no loss.
C Rioli had two injury years and retired at age 29 at the end of 2018. I think this came as a surprise.
Shoenmakers hung up the boots at age 27 in 2018.
Suckling went to WB 2015 aged 27 can only assume he wanted out for his own reasons.
What the above shows is players retiring with a couple being pushed as new players came in and what were premiership players starting to drop off too much. It is very much spread over 7 seasons having started from a base of a very old team.
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Hawthorn are an example of how not to do it where Geelong and Sydney on how to do it .
I hope Richmond transition and not dump our older players and give them the respect they have earnt
I’m not sure why people who don’t agree with you are delusional though , is that because people who have different opinions to you should be forced to agree to your thinking.
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Updated - Those remaining out of contract:
RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired: Caddy, Lambert, Edwards, Parker (rookie).
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Updated - Those remaining out of contract:
RCD, Martyn.
Rookies: Stack, Aarts, Biggie, Colina.
Retired: Caddy, Lambert, Edwards, Parker (rookie).
Martyn has to be cut surely. Aarts and Stack too - neither have proven to be anywhere near best 22 or consistent/committed enough.
RCD I would keep given his VFL form seems to have become consistently better. Collina still very early days. Biggie maybe keep as a depth/development option as KPD.
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I thought Stack signed a 1 year deal? I think everyone there has reason to be worried. I'd assume the giant bloke will get another year, haven't seen him play so cant comment on his progression
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I thought Stack signed a 1 year deal? I think everyone there has reason to be worried. I'd assume the giant bloke will get another year, haven't seen him play so cant comment on his progression
I'm sure they're likely to all be in doo-doos but if we are trading picks for Taranto +/- Hopper we might not draft as many kids, so IMO it's worth keeping someone like RCD and Biggie.
You'd think another club would pick up RCD quickly - high pick and showing some VFL form, good size etc. I'd rather keep him than use some sort of rookie or supp pick on the next Aarts.
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Think Jon Ralph mentioned in his article today that stack will sign a new deal. Must be a delist and rerookie type deal as I don’t think well have many spots left on the primary list of they do manage to get both TT and hopper.
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Think Jon Ralph mentioned in his article today that stack will sign a new deal. Must be a delist and rerookie type deal as I don’t think well have many spots left on the primary list of they do manage to get both TT and hopper.
I'm OK with this. Surely last chance saloon though.
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Guys, just my opinion but our trade value sits with RCD (what a shame he doesn't have the grit we need has all the tools but doesn't seem to have the mental toughness), Soldo (a lot of clubs would pay for a tap ruck who can go forward especially GWS where Kingsley would value him)), Martyn (he has not cracked it and is well behind on the half back line), Ralphsmith (young and impressive one we really wouldn't want to loose but he would be a valuable get for many sides), Stack (just hasn't reached his potential and may have some appeal across in WA), Aarts (I thin k he will be part of our clean out and may end up in Qkld for very little return ) and dare I say it Short (yes I know he is a B&F winner but you have to give something to get something and he would be very appealing to many as an attacking Midfielder/Half back) ... expect some rockets coming my way on some of these!!
RCD - agree 100% - needs to go and try and get a gig somewhere else hopefully a change of scenery can help his career I wish him the best. I don’t think he has it though.
Soldo - can go too and I also think we may get some interest for him.
Martyn - maybe keep for VFL and depth but I wouldn’t be upset if he gets traded or delisted.
Ralphsmith - keep - I think this kid could be a very handy wingman we will need Pickett is old and won’t last long in the game and I think he will be an excellent player from what I’ve seen so far.
Stack - keep - this kid could be anything. I’d hate to see him play good anywhere else. That probably sounds terrible but I think he should stay a Richmond man.
Aarts - can go - or keep him for VFL or as depth player
Short - interesting idea but can’t see it happening because of his last contract but I wouldn’t be against it But if he’s the type of clubman I think he is then probably not a great idea trading those types can destroy the glue that binds the club. Just not a great idea to trade those type of players IMO.
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Great post Tigeritis
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Hawthorn are an example of how not to do it where Geelong and Sydney on how to do it .
I hope Richmond transition and not dump our older players and give them the respect they have earnt
I’m not sure why people who don’t agree with you are delusional though , is that because people who have different opinions to you should be forced to agree to your thinking.
Nope your not big enough to admit your wrong. There are several lessons to be taken from The Hawks and dumping players is not one of them. No they did not dump players willy nilly how much evidence do you need to acknowledge that.
How the hell you came up with me wanting to dump our older players is mindboggling by the way. Of the oldies im one who has stated Edwards should go and he has but we keep Jack and Trent going around for one more. Ive been pretty consistent on that.
No one is saying dump our older players besides what we do has nothing to do with the Hawthorn debate we are having.
Somehow you believe Hawthorn just dumped all their older players and it is a fallacy.
Oh and where in this debate about the Hawks have i called you or anyone else delusuional. I suppose when you have nothing its time to fall back crap like that eh.
Transistion or succession planning well glad to see you at least acknowledge we need to do it properly. But succession planning should start well before a player or group of players have to retire ,or we have a dire need to have to hang onto them for too long.
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you really do struggle with anyone who disagrees with you don’t you and to think you have been crapping on about being too old and playing kids at the expense of a lot our more senior players all year ,which would be a dump to most people.
Now you have turned it around and your basically agreeing with a lot of us to say we should manage our senior players as we transition.
PS:Just because you jump in on a topic after most of have had a say and get the last say doesn’t make you right
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Children, please..........
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My guess.
OUT from our senior list:
Edwards (retired).
Lambert (retired).
Caddy (retired) ............................. [allowed us an extra rookie (Bauer)].
RCD (expecting him to be traded).
Martyn (expect him to be delisted/traded).
Out from our rookie list:
Parker (delisted/retired).
Aarts (delist).
IN onto our senior list:
Taranto (via trade).
Hopper (via trade).
Miller (promotion from rookie list).
Pickett (promotion from rookie list).
Pick 19.
Pick 30.
IN onto our rookie list:
Picks 12 & 30 in the Rookie draft.
If I've got this right then that would leave us with 37 senior listed players and 6 rookies. Leaves us with a spot open to grab someone either via the SPSS in March or via the midseason draft in June next year.
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MT think you have to allow a position spot for Bauer
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MT think you have to allow a position spot for Bauer
I could be wrong Gracie but doesn't Bauer next year just become classed as a normal rookie no longer tied to a senior spot?
We still have a spot free don't we if we end up with 37 senior list spots plus 6 rookies (5 Cat. A & Mate who is Cat. B)?
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Bauer was drafted onto the rookie list and is contracted on the rookie list for next season.
Miller is rookie listed and contracted until 2024. Don’t see any reason to upgrade him especially with primary list spots so tight if we do manage to land TT and Hop.
Pickett has spent 4 years on the rookie list and has been extended to next season, so he would have to be move to our primary list starting next year.
I doubt atleast one if not both of picks 19 and 30 are involved in the trades.
Does anyone know if we are able to delist and rerookie stack or can that only be done a certain number of times to a player (can’t remember if we’ve done this with him before)?
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Got a feeling Stack is on thin ice might be gone.
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Got a feeling Stack is on thin ice might be gone.
For me there is literally nothing to suggest he will make it.
Has talent and played well in 2019. That was a long time ago in footy terms.
Consistently shows up after the break out of shape and takes half the year to get fit for the top level. Not acceptable.
I'd consider a rookie spot if we end up with no draft picks but minimum wage and strict goals to reach.
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Got a feeling Stack is on thin ice might be gone.
For me there is literally nothing to suggest he will make it.
Has talent and played well in 2019. That was a long time ago in footy terms.
Consistently shows up after the break out of shape and takes half the year to get fit for the top level. Not acceptable.
I'd consider a rookie spot if we end up with no draft picks but minimum wage and strict goals to reach.
💯 spot on.
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Bauer was drafted onto the rookie list and is contracted on the rookie list for next season.
Miller is rookie listed and contracted until 2024. Don’t see any reason to upgrade him especially with primary list spots so tight if we do manage to land TT and Hop.
Pickett has spent 4 years on the rookie list and has been extended to next season, so he would have to be move to our primary list starting next year.
I doubt atleast one if not both of picks 19 and 30 are involved in the trades.
Does anyone know if we are able to delist and rerookie stack or can that only be done a certain number of times to a player (can’t remember if we’ve done this with him before)?
If we keep Miller as a rookie then my post above would have 36 senior listed players and 7 rookies. I think that's allowed.
I don't remember us delisting and re-rookie-ing Stack. Last year, Cumberland & Biggie were delisted and re-rookied. Lucky for us we didn't lose Cumberland to another club for nothing.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/684625/historic-richmond-tiger-among-four-delistings-but-lifelines-are-on-the-way
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Bauer was drafted onto the rookie list and is contracted on the rookie list for next season.
Miller is rookie listed and contracted until 2024. Don’t see any reason to upgrade him especially with primary list spots so tight if we do manage to land TT and Hop.
Pickett has spent 4 years on the rookie list and has been extended to next season, so he would have to be move to our primary list starting next year.
I doubt atleast one if not both of picks 19 and 30 are involved in the trades.
Does anyone know if we are able to delist and rerookie stack or can that only be done a certain number of times to a player (can’t remember if we’ve done this with him before)?
If we keep Miller as a rookie then my post above would have 36 senior listed players and 7 rookies. I think that's allowed.
I don't remember us delisting and re-rookie-ing Stack. Last year, Cumberland & Biggie were delisted and re-rookied. Lucky for us we didn't lose Cumberland to another club for nothing.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/684625/historic-richmond-tiger-among-four-delistings-but-lifelines-are-on-the-way
Assuming Aarts, martyn and RCD are delisted or maybe traded in RCD’s case and hopper and Taranto are successfully traded in, we’ll have 34 players on the primary list (including Pickett who must be promoted), 4 cat A rookies (assuming stack is delisted and rerookied) and 1 cat B rookie prior to the draft period. Total list size is capped at 42 (not including cat B rookies), so we’d still have 4 spots open that can be used to add 0-4 on the primary list (max. 38) and 0-2 to the cat A rookie list (max. 6). Could even add a second cat. B rookie (max. 2) as these aren’t counted in the overall list sizes.
We have to make a minimum of 3 list changes via the draft although picketts upgrade would count as one of those. So we only have to pick up a minimum of 1-2 players in the afl and pre-season drafts.
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Bauer was drafted onto the rookie list and is contracted on the rookie list for next season.
Miller is rookie listed and contracted until 2024. Don’t see any reason to upgrade him especially with primary list spots so tight if we do manage to land TT and Hop.
Pickett has spent 4 years on the rookie list and has been extended to next season, so he would have to be move to our primary list starting next year.
I doubt atleast one if not both of picks 19 and 30 are involved in the trades.
Does anyone know if we are able to delist and rerookie stack or can that only be done a certain number of times to a player (can’t remember if we’ve done this with him before)?
If we keep Miller as a rookie then my post above would have 36 senior listed players and 7 rookies. I think that's allowed.
I don't remember us delisting and re-rookie-ing Stack. Last year, Cumberland & Biggie were delisted and re-rookied. Lucky for us we didn't lose Cumberland to another club for nothing.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/684625/historic-richmond-tiger-among-four-delistings-but-lifelines-are-on-the-way
Assuming Aarts, martyn and RCD are delisted or maybe traded in RCD’s case and hopper and Taranto are successfully traded in, we’ll have 34 players on the primary list (including Pickett who must be promoted), 4 cat A rookies (assuming stack is delisted and rerookied) and 1 cat B rookie prior to the draft period. Total list size is capped at 42 (not including cat B rookies), so we’d still have 4 spots open that can be used to add 0-4 on the primary list (max. 38) and 0-2 to the cat A rookie list (max. 6). Could even add a second cat. B rookie (max. 2) as these aren’t counted in the overall list sizes.
We have to make a minimum of 3 list changes via the draft although picketts upgrade would count as one of those. So we only have to pick up a minimum of 1-2 players in the afl and pre-season drafts.
Now I get what you meant, TK. I forgot about the 42 limit for senior players plus Cat. A rookies. I was just going by the 44 total maximum which includes having two Cat. B rookies.
It will see clubs permitted to have a minimum of 37 players and a maximum of 44 players on their books.
Primary lists must have between 36 and 38 players. Category A rookies are capped at 4-6, up to a total of 42 players on a list including primary-listed players. Each club can also have two Category B rookies.
https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/837502/afl-confirms-2021-list-sizes
My original 'list' was our list after this year's upcoming drafts which I had us using 2 national draft picks and 2 rookie picks. So if Miller remains a rookie then we would have 36 senior listed players plus 6 Cat. A rookies [so 42 in total] and 1 Cat. B rookie. That would be a full primary list with only one Cat. B spot left open.
So based on all that we can keep a spot open for the SPSS (March) or the MSD (June) by drafting just one more Cat. A rookie; not the two.
OUT from our senior list: ..................... (Decreases to 31 players)
Edwards (retired).
Lambert (retired).
Caddy (retired).
RCD (expecting him to be traded).
Martyn (expect him to be delisted/traded).
Out from our Category A rookie list: ...... (Decreases to 4 players)
Parker (delisted/retired).
Aarts (delist).
Pickett (promotion to the senior list).
IN onto our senior list: ........................(Increases to 36 players)
Taranto (via trade).
Hopper (via trade).
Pickett (promotion off the rookie list).
Pick 19 (national draft).
Pick 30 (national draft) ..... the actual pick number may change after the trade period.
IN onto our Category A rookie list: ...... (Increases to 5 players)
Pick 12 (rookie draft).
Doing all that would give us 36 senior listed players plus 5 Cat. A rookies [so 41 in total] and 1 Cat. B rookie (Colina).
Hopefully, I've now got this right, TK.
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Certainly in for an interesting trade and draft period. I think it really depends on how many picks we have left after the trade period which may also dictate what we do with stack and RCD. Is it possible we promote stack to the primary list or extend RCD for another season? Given the talk about other clubs monitoring his situation I really can’t see a situation where he stays but stranger things have happened I guess.
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Certainly in for an interesting trade and draft period. I think it really depends on how many picks we have left after the trade period which may also dictate what we do with stack and RCD. Is it possible we promote stack to the primary list or extend RCD for another season? Given the talk about other clubs monitoring his situation I really can’t see a situation where he stays but stranger things have happened I guess.
The other question is what RCD wants to do even if unexpectedly we want to keep him? With Taranto and Hopper coming in, he's going to fall down the pecking order even more. If he couldn't get a game in a struggling midfield lacking depth this year, he's going to struggle even more next year unless there's a sudden massive change and improvement in what he delivers. He may want to leave himself for more opportunity at another club.
I agree Stack will depend on what we do during the trade period. I also have a feeling as a Club we'll back him as long as we feel it's worthwhile to persist.
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
This would explain why he has had less opportunities than others.
Still, I'm not overly fussed if he leaves.
He would have been well down the pecking order with Hopper and TT coming anyway.
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
Are you saying this because he has gay parents?
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My uncle taught him at high school, said he's a really nice kid.
Maybe that's his problem, too nice?
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
Are you saying this because he has gay parents?
No male role models in his life for the first 18yrs so yeah its a possibility. Nothing against his mums but the chance of a bias is real.
If that's not PC to say I don't give a poo
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
Are you saying this because he has gay parents?
No male role models in his life for the first 18yrs so yeah its a possibility. Nothing against his mums but the chance of a bias is real.
If that's not PC to say I don't give a poo
This is so stupid.
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From what I herd is doesn't work hard enough at training and doesn't take advice on board to.
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From what I herd is doesn't work hard enough at training and doesn't take advice on board to.
Sorry I have to call out the "doesn't work hard enough". That is simply not true
As for "doesn't take advice on board" I'd challenge that as well. Kid has done everything that's been asked of him by the coaches.
But whatever
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
Are you saying this because he has gay parents?
No male role models in his life for the first 18yrs so yeah its a possibility. Nothing against his mums but the chance of a bias is real.
If that's not PC to say I don't give a poo
Male role models exist beyond the family home.
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Received the dislike curse from Shane Tuck and Antony Miles.
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From what I herd is doesn't work hard enough at training and doesn't take advice on board to.
Sorry I have to call out the "doesn't work hard enough". That is simply not true
As for "doesn't take advice on board" I'd challenge that as well. Kid has done everything that's been asked of him by the coaches.
But whatever
Well even if you go by Morris comments during the year clearly there is a issue from one week to another work rate differs and form can't be both coaches wrong Dimma to. Let's be honest only the last quarter of the season this year we seen some consistency.The difference between him and Ross , Ross shows form in the vfl regularly he doesn't. I agree he should have got games compared to other's.
If he has did everything asked for by the coaches what's the issue then enlightened us ?.
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If he has did everything asked for by the coaches what's the issue then enlightened us ?.
Not at this time, no.
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Interesting that we haven’t announced any delisting when most clubs have. I know it doesn’t serve much purpose for the club to announce it before trade period in the off chance that the players might be involved in trades but it is interesting none the less.
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Interesting that we haven’t announced any delisting when most clubs have. I know it doesn’t serve much purpose for the club to announce it before trade period in the off chance that the players might be involved in trades but it is interesting none the less.
Was thinking the same thing
But I suppose we already have what 4 changes already without delistings
Caddy, Edwards, Lambert and Parker
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Interesting that we haven’t announced any delisting when most clubs have. I know it doesn’t serve much purpose for the club to announce it before trade period in the off chance that the players might be involved in trades but it is interesting none the less.
We may as well announce Martyn and Aarts. They are not going to get picked up elsewhere
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Interesting that we haven’t announced any delisting when most clubs have. I know it doesn’t serve much purpose for the club to announce it before trade period in the off chance that the players might be involved in trades but it is interesting none the less.
We may as well announce Martyn and Aarts. They are not going to get picked up elsewhere
You never know...
N0rt may trade us one of the concessional picks they've been given for Aarts :rollin
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RCD is gone… doesn’t get on with Dimma
Rejects male leadership or just a arrogant twit?
Are you saying this because he has gay parents?
No male role models in his life for the first 18yrs so yeah its a possibility. Nothing against his mums but the chance of a bias is real.
If that's not PC to say I don't give a poo
Male role models exist beyond the family home.
Fonzi is just a character man
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Tigers cap cull to trigger big move
David Zita and Catherine Healey
Fox Sports
September 26th, 2022
RICHMOND
Players that could leave
The Tigers may have bowed out in the first week of the finals, but there’s plenty of upside to Richmond and where they are going in 2023. With a host of young talent on the books and some big inclusions looming,the likes of Jack Graham could be squeezed out. While touted as a future skipper of the club, there’s not a lot of room in the Richmond engine room if the club has the busy trade period predicted. Riley Collier-Dawkins could be on his way out after failing to lock down a consistent spot in the senior line up. Ruckman Ivan Soldo could be the player to help get the GWS trade deals done as the ruck merry go-round looks set to continue this upcoming trade period. Soldo still has two years to run on his deal, but sits behind Toby Nankervis at the Tigers. Sydney Stack is also yet to sign a new deal after a controversial career so far with Richmond. He signed just a one-year deal last season but is a non-free agent.
Who's already gone
Kane Lambert (retired), Josh Caddy (retired), Shane Edwards (retired), Matthew Parker (delisted)
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-news-rumours-2022-trades-state-of-play-before-the-trade-period-every-clubs-targets-contracts-free-agents-draft-picks/news-story/1531b61b133efab01890419656a95165
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Honestly, if Soldo is what it takes to get these deals through then show me the paperwork--I'm jumping at that. He looked really poor this year to the extent that I wouldn't consider him a loss at all.
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Okay if we get Hopper and Taranto that move is very much a now move. So if we are going hard at a premiership next year then we just have to find a couple of key forwards even if they are very short term.
To be honest if anything happens to Tom Lynch then we are not winning a flag no matter how many mids we bring in.
People will scoff at this but id like to prise 30 year old Josh Bruce out of the dogs.
Id do this with 2023 solely in mind. Thing is i reckon he still has a bit to offer and he now has some serious competition for a spot from highly touted early draft picks in Ugle-Hagen and Sam Darcy, keeping in mind they have a beaut in Naughton well and truly established.
Any thoughts on this, just keep in mind it seems we are going all out for a flag in 2023 and we do need that third key forward who can play at the level to cover the bases.
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Okay if we get Hopper and Taranto that move is very much a now move. So if we are going hard at a premiership next year then we just have to find a couple of key forwards even if they are very short term.
To be honest if anything happens to Tom Lynch then we are not winning a flag no matter how many mids we bring in.
People will scoff at this but id like to prise 30 year old Josh Bruce out of the dogs.
Id do this with 2023 solely in mind. Thing is i reckon he still has a bit to offer and he now has some serious competition for a spot from highly touted early draft picks in Ugle-Hagen and Sam Darcy, keeping in mind they have a beaut in Naughton well and truly established.
Any thoughts on this, just keep in mind it seems we are going all out for a flag in 2023 and we do need that third key forward who can play at the level to cover the bases.
I wouldn't go for him. He's 31 in June and didn't show any good signs of returning to form this year after his knee unfortunately.
Any other cheap options? Honestly Casboult has been solid this year haha
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Didn’t rate Bruce highly pre-injury and on the wrong side of 30 post ACL, prob unlikely he’d get back to his best.
Also not a fan of a 3 tall forward line for us. 2 and if needed the second/resting ruck is a better structure imo.
If your moreso talking about key forward cover in the event lynch or jack get injured then yes we are very light on. I think the club know this though but have prioritised reinforcing our midfield this offseason. Wouldnt be surprised if we draft/rookie or trade for a fringe KP just to give us a body in the short term. If there is an injury rekn they’ll either go small or swing balta/Gibcus/Miller forward or maybe even give Bauer or Ryan a run.
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I think Miller could go forward
Grimes, Taz, Balta and Gibcus is plenty of tall defenders. Biggie depth/backup
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Huge no to Josh Bruce. Even allowing that you should allow 12 months post reco to judge a comeback, he seemed to have lost a yard of pace (not that he was that quick to begin with)
I'd look at Sam Weideman from the Demons. Still only 25, clearly not a Goodwin favourite as shown by not get a look in in their dysfunctional forward set up.
As a back up and long term option worth a look IMHO and would come pretty cheap
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Huge no to Josh Bruce. Even allowing that you should allow 12 months post reco to judge a comeback, he seemed to have lost a yard of pace (not that he was that quick to begin with)
I'd look at Sam Weideman from the Demons. Still only 25, clearly not a Goodwin favourite as shown by not get a look in in their dysfunctional forward set up.
As a back up and long term option worth a look IMHO and would come pretty cheap
Agreed on Weideman.
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I was thinking the same thing, Gold Coast have a couple the may be worth a look , I’m not sure on Schake but come work as a transition player
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I was thinking the same thing, Gold Coast have a couple the may be worth a look , I’m not sure on Schake but come work as a transition player
Schache? No from me
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Huge no to Josh Bruce. Even allowing that you should allow 12 months post reco to judge a comeback, he seemed to have lost a yard of pace (not that he was that quick to begin with)
I'd look at Sam Weideman from the Demons. Still only 25, clearly not a Goodwin favourite as shown by not get a look in in their dysfunctional forward set up.
As a back up and long term option worth a look IMHO and would come pretty cheap
Agreed on Weideman.
x2
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Huge no to Josh Bruce. Even allowing that you should allow 12 months post reco to judge a comeback, he seemed to have lost a yard of pace (not that he was that quick to begin with)
I'd look at Sam Weideman from the Demons. Still only 25, clearly not a Goodwin favourite as shown by not get a look in in their dysfunctional forward set up.
As a back up and long term option worth a look IMHO and would come pretty cheap
Agreed on Weideman.
No for me just has not done a lot in how many seasons if he has not clicked by now he probably never will.
Besides Melbourne don't have many tall fwds, id call it is a weakness of theirs if anything. He has not managed to get games in front of Tom McDonald who they converted from a defender and they had to go and recruit Ben Brown.
With Bruce it would be just one season and he has had some very good seasons kicking goals, he managed 48 in 2021 but only played the last 4 or 5 games of the season in 22 coming off a knee. he has kicked 36 or more goals in a season 5 times.
If its not a player like Bruce id rather we target one of the better players in the state leagues and see what they can come up with.
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Claw -
You clearly didn’t watch Bruce this year .. go and have a look
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I think Bruce is not up to it but your right, with our draft we need to pluck a back up key forward from somewhere .
It may be not be such a bad thing to miss out on Hopper, GWS are way too greedy imo as Hopper hasn’t proved he is an A grader where Toranto has
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If Soldo is traded:
OUT from our senior list: ..................... (Decreases to 30 players)
Edwards (retired).
Lambert (retired).
Caddy (retired).
RCD (expecting him to be traded/delisted).
Martyn (expecting him to be delisted).
Soldo (traded to GWS)
Out from our Category A rookie list: ...... (Decreases to 4 players)
Parker (delisted/retired).
Aarts (delist).
Pickett (promotion to the senior list).
IN onto our senior list: ........................(Increases to 33 players)
Taranto (via trade).
Hopper (via trade).
Pickett (promotion off the rookie list).
IN onto our Category A rookie list: ...... (4 players)
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So the above would leave us with 33 senior listed players plus 4 Cat. A rookies [so 37 in total] and 1 Cat. B rookie (Colina).
It will see clubs permitted to have a minimum of 37 players and a maximum of 44 players on their books.
Primary lists must have between 36 and 38 players. Category A rookies are capped at 4-6, up to a total of 42 players on a list including primary-listed players. Each club can also have two Category B rookies.
https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/837502/afl-confirms-2021-list-sizes
So we need to have at least 36 on our senior list. That's 3 needed. Two ND picks plus Miller being promoted? One pick, Miller promoted and RCD survives the cut?
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Barring any unexpected late trades I think we’ll take 1 player in the AFL draft either with our pick 31 if not traded to GWS or with their pick 42. Pickett and Miller are upgraded to the primary list and RCD gets a lifeline 1 year contract as we need to have a minimum of 36 on the primary list and we don’t have any ND picks and no other rookies warrant promotion.
Stack will have to be delisted as he’s already spent the max. 4 years on the rookie list - very much doubt they’ll promote him. Expect Aarts to be delisted and biggie to be given a new one year deal which would leave just him and Bauer on the Cat. A rookie list. Then I think we’ll pick up 3 players in the rookie draft, possibly re-rookieing stack and 2 key position players (maybe a forward and a ruck). There’s a key position defender in our vfl list, I think his name is Tyler young that iv read some good reviews on here and big footy so maybe we take him. Either way that will leave us with 5 Cat A rookies with a spot available for a player to be taken in the mid season draft.
So 36 on the primary list, 5 cat A rookies and 1 cat B rookie.
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We might look at Ethan Phillips from the VFL. Full back, won the Fothergil Medal.
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Soldo goes priority is a ruckman or we're in trouble someone that can play straight away from the wafl , sanfl or another club insurance for Nank can't rely just yet on Ryan or Colina. Soldo was good against the tall ruckman we're Nank struggled.
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We might look at Ethan Phillips from the VFL. Full back, won the Fothergil Medal.
Would prefer Tylar Young who plays with our VFL team. Our guys think he could develop into an AFL backman :shh
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Claw -
You clearly didn’t watch Bruce this year .. go and have a look
What did you expect from him coming off a serious knee injury. I actually look at it as bonus that he managed to get some games at the end of the season.
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you really do struggle with anyone who disagrees with you don’t you and to think you have been crapping on about being too old and playing kids at the expense of a lot our more senior players all year ,which would be a dump to most people.
Now you have turned it around and your basically agreeing with a lot of us to say we should manage our senior players as we transition.
PS:Just because you jump in on a topic after most of have had a say and get the last say doesn’t make you right
Lol there you go again abject failure to differentiate between poor or ordinary older players and the need to get games into kids so that the transition is smooth. Ah well one thing is true trying to have a rational debate with someone who is so blinkered is nigh on impossible.
Cmon who have i actually called for to retire or be cut of the oldies? Have never been a fan of Caddy and his role and despite playing in the flag in 2019 thought he should be delisted if he could not play a decent inside mid role for us.
Oh Castagna while blokes like you were lauding his premierships blokes like me were telling you he was lucky and very ordinary.
Edwards at the end of 2020 should have retired i was not wrong.
McIntosh i have since day one insisted we can do better and nothing has changed.
Jayden Short i cant stand i dont like soft weak players. People like you put him on a pedestal and call him a champ lol.
Jake Aarts everyone could see except blokes like you.
Of juniors have been critical of Ross not just this year either. What have i been critical of for yrs now. His inability to get his hands on the ball his pace and his inability to perform an inside role. Just ludicrous for us to play him on a wing.
Another unskilled player in Parker even questioned why we had to keep him at the end of 2021.
Insisted we play Miller last year yet alone this year. Same goes for RC-D.
Go look at my posts on Gibcus have been nothing but positive and insisted we continue to play him.
Was critical of Maurice Rioli did not believe he was doing enough and had not done enough to earn games early on in front of others.
It was correct at the time and is correct now. Am pleased we played him now though.
Wanted us to give Ryan more games instead of Soldo.
Insisted all year we should get games into Sonsie, That we should have played Stack and RC-D as well.
Players i don't rate as highly as the rabid one eyed ferals have been about them. Baker, Graham, and McIntosh along with Short.
With no third KPF ON THE LIST i still believe Balta should play fwd. Its not as if we don't have enough Key and tall defenders there.
Oh and yes ive been yelling for kids to get games in front of some pretty ordinary players for ages and well before supporters like you have ever realised they are ordinary.
If i sat back and accepted everything you and others post then i would be believing they just have not got a thing wrong.
It must be great to live in a world where the sun always shines and it never rains.
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Nope , still can’t see it, everyone is entitled to to their opinion even if I disagree ,
A couple of clarification , can you find where I said Arnts should be played ahead of the kids, pretty sure I was one of the first calling for Cumberland to get a crack!
I think I also said the kids would get a crack to cover Injuries and they did . I also think some players are role players for team balance and I don’t slag on my own club and would rather bag the opposition , sorry about that , I must be in the minority but that’s my opinion
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Nope , still can’t see it, everyone is entitled to to their opinion even if I disagree ,
A couple of clarification , can you find where I said Arnts should be played ahead of the kids, pretty sure I was one of the first calling for Cumberland to get a crack!
I think I also said the kids would get a crack to cover Injuries and they did . I also think some players are role players for team balance and I don’t slag on my own club and would rather bag the opposition , sorry about that , I must be in the minority but that’s my opinion
Lol you really do have the blinkers on don't ya.
Sheesh you asking me for clarification are you for real go have a look at your posts to me. Its easy to fling a bit of poo aint it but want clarification HHHHaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhhh its gold.
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Do you ever why you don’t have a lot of people that agree with you and in fact they are even hostile towards you and are offended by your personal attacks , it’s probably Because they are wrong and your always right even if you have to make stuff it up .
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Do you ever why you don’t have a lot of people that agree with you and in fact they are even hostile towards you and are offended by your personal attacks , it’s probably Because they are wrong and your always right even if you have to make stuff it up .
I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list. If I could bottle that secret I would do the decent thing and give it to you free of charge.
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Do you ever why you don’t have a lot of people that agree with you and in fact they are even hostile towards you and are offended by your personal attacks , it’s probably Because they are wrong and your always right even if you have to make stuff it up .
Lol you don't get it.
I dont give two hoots about what people think of me and i certainly only retaliate with like for like posts. You make it personal i will too.
What!!!!you think its all a one way street here lol. People get narky because their opinion is challenged and then play the man and like you now bitch moan and cry when you get a like post back at ya.
I don't follow the crowd opinion and have no wish to do so. I go out of my way to give the opposing view just for some balance around here.
People get hostile because im constantly coming from a neutral point of view, a point that usually allows me to look at the negatives and its one that contradicts peoples opinions and they get cut up about it..
Just an example, Lets look at the retired Caddy. When i say he is just ordinary and give my reasons back it up with stats
all i cop is abuse. Very few have the power of their convictions and are prepared to actually debate whats being said.
Nope far easier to take a shot at the poster than defend something that cannot be defended or backed up by anything.
THings like McIntosh when i say he is fumbly is not a great ball user for a winger. does not get enough ball, does not lay a lot of tackles has little offensive value, at 191cm does not take contested marks does not give us many i/50 or rebounds out of defence and certainly does not win clearances.
thats what i see and i back it all up with the only real thing left to us and thats the stats that overwhelmingly confirm what has been said.
What do i get in return. With A good measure of sarcasm, no your wrong, you don't go to games, he is not there for those things, he is a two way runner etc etc,along with the personal jibes and you have the gall to have a go at me.
The funny thing is most seem to come around to some degree of what im saying eventually. ;)
The bottom line is i have an opinion and this is a place to voice it and i dont care if people dont like my style my neutrality or if some don't even read what i say.
I will get on here and continue to voice my opinion and come from angles that people seem to avoid. If it upsets people too bad.
Some will read the posts and actually take a look at both sides of the usually lopsided debates and hero worship, that goes on around here.
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Riley Collier-Dawkins ... are we keeping him now?
It would be disappointing for we just delisted him. Surely he is worth a 4th round pick? Maybe 3rd round?
We need as many 3rd-4th round picks to MAYBE bundle for a higher pick and give to those clubs needing picks for their Father-Sons.
We need to get back into the draft as much as we can.
WE NEED KEY FORWARDS THIS DRAFT!
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Do you ever why you don’t have a lot of people that agree with you and in fact they are even hostile towards you and are offended by your personal attacks , it’s probably Because they are wrong and your always right even if you have to make stuff it up .
I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list. If I could bottle that secret I would do the decent thing and give it to you free of charge.
Good for you bud im sure you will read this lol.
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Do you ever why you don’t have a lot of people that agree with you and in fact they are even hostile towards you and are offended by your personal attacks , it’s probably Because they are wrong and your always right even if you have to make stuff it up .
I'm pretty sure I'm on his ignore list. If I could bottle that secret I would do the decent thing and give it to you free of charge.
Good for you bud im sure you will read this lol.
Hey mate. I thought you'd blacklisted me. Look forward to some hustle and bustle with you. :cheers
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Updated with Soldo staying and after Hopper trade confirmed:
OUT from our senior list: ..................... (Decreases to 31 players)
Edwards (retired).
Lambert (retired).
Caddy (retired).
RCD (expecting him to be traded/delisted).
Martyn (expecting him to be delisted).
Out from our Category A rookie list: ...... (Decreases to 4 players)
Parker (delisted/retired).
Aarts (delist).
Pickett (promotion to the senior list).
IN onto our senior list: ........................(Increases to 34 players)
Taranto (via trade).
Hopper (via trade).
Pickett (promotion off the rookie list).
IN onto our Category A rookie list: ...... (4 players)
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So the above would leave us with 34 senior listed players plus 4 Cat. A rookies [so 38 in total] and 1 Cat. B rookie (Colina).
It will see clubs permitted to have a minimum of 37 players and a maximum of 44 players on their books.
Primary lists must have between 36 and 38 players. Category A rookies are capped at 4-6, up to a total of 42 players on a list including primary-listed players. Each club can also have two Category B rookies.
https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/837502/afl-confirms-2021-list-sizes
So, we need to have at least 36 on our senior list. That's 2 needed:
* Two ND picks (53, 63)?
* One ND pick (53) and Miller promoted?
* One ND pick (53) and RCD survives the cut?
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I'd say we will pick 53 a raw tall forward and then RCD survives cut.
With 5 on bench depth in midfield will be key.
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RCD, Stack, Aarts and Martyn all cut.
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Stack probably the one that had much hope of ever getting a game in a good side.
Good luck to them all.
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Sounds like there is no intention to re-rookie any of them. Just gone.
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Richmond announces list changes
By Richmond Media - Just now
Richmond Football Club has informed players Jake Aarts, Sydney Stack, Riley Collier-Dawkins, and Will Martyn that they will not be offered contracts for the 2023 season.
Aarts was drafted to Richmond with the Club’s first pick in the 2019 AFL Rookie Draft after an impressive stint playing with the Club’s VFL team.
The small forward/midfielder played 42 games at AFL level across four seasons, booting 34 goals. Aarts featured at AFL level on seven occasions in 2022.
Richmond selected Stack as a Supplemental Signing in the 2019 pre-season, having moved across from Western Australia after missing out at the 2018 AFL National and Rookie Draft’s.
Stack played 35 games for the Tigers in his four seasons, winning the Cosgrove-Jenkins Award as the best first-year player and the VFL premiership in his first year.
Collier-Dawkins managed 11 matches across four seasons for Richmond, also featuring in the 2019 VFL premiership.
The 22-year-old, selected with pick No.20 overall at the 2018 National Draft, played two games this season.
Martyn spent three years on Richmond’s list after being selected with the Club’s third pick (No. 44 overall) at the 2019 AFL National Draft.
The midfielder/defender played all three of his career AFL games last season, a year he was also awarded the Guinane Medal as Richmond VFL best and fairest.
Richmond General Manager- Football Talent Blair Hartley thanked all players for their contributions to the Club.
“We appreciated the hard work and commitment that Jake, Sydney, Will, and Riley put in across multiple years with us,” he said.
“Each have played their part in our recent success, and we wish them all well for the future.”
https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/1237029/richmond-announces-list-changes
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For me, all had to go even Stack all the talent in the world but not commitment rocks up unfit preseason playing catchup all year club can't keep doing that. RCD had a good finish to end of year but plays half a game of footy and then unsighted next half.
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Not surprised about Aarts, Stack or Martyn.
Thought they might keep RCD on the cheap but with our new recruits probably not much point
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What's the final wash-up then? How many picks do we take to the drafts and how many do we have to use on new players?
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So how many lists spots available?
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Tough but right calls. I'd say with Grah and Soldo staying made it clearer.
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Sounds like there is no intention to re-rookie any of them. Just gone.
Yup usually they’d say they’re committed to re-listing then via the rookie draft in the announcement so agree their time with Richmond is doneskies.
Thought stack might have been a chance to be re-rookied but to be fair the club gave him so many chances and he just repeated the same mistakes off season after off season. Thought RCD might be retained just on the sheer fact that we only have 2 late picks in the draft but didn’t look like he would have played anyway if he wasn’t getting any games this season.
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I presume 5 gone with 3 on primary list so it’s 2 picks national draft and 4 rookies?
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I think we all knew these would be the de-listings for a while now.
Interesting if RCD or Stacky get a lifeline.
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Primary List: 34
Cat A Rookies: 3
Cat B Rookies: 1
Think we’ll use both picks in the national draft to bring us up to 36 on the primary list and then take either 2 or 3 players in the pre-season draft depending on whether we upgrade Miller to bring our cat A rookie list up to 5. This will leave one rookie spot open for the mid-season draft.
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I'm disappointed that Stack's gone. WIll probably get his attitude together now and do a Stengle.
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Disappointed Stack has gone as well.
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People realise that between the time Stengle played for us and Geelong that he spent 2 seasons on the crows list before being delisted after being pulled over by the cops in possession of cocaine and spent a further season playing in the state leagues. Hardly a poor list decision from us especially since he asked to be traded home to South Australia.
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Freo won't be picking up Stack - at least not this year. They want him to get fit and committed to playing footy and prove it by having a good season next year in the WAFL.
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Meanwhile, Richmond’s delisting of Sydney Stack prompted the suggestion Fremantle could use his services.
Stack – a West Australian – wasn’t offered a new contract for 2023 after just two games in 2022. But despite the talent that made him Richmond’s best first-year player in 2019, Walls said the club won’t pursue the 22-year-old.
“I’d say no,” Walls responded when asked about the possibility of recruiting Stack.
“We’ve looked at Sydney previously and through the draft, he’s probably got to show that he can get himself fit and he’s dedicated and come back through the WAFL and have a really good season.
“If he can do that we’d definitely have a look at him.”
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/13/fremantle-really-disappointed-to-miss-out-on-trade-target-wont-pursue/
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No surprise about Aarts and Martyn. Sadly, VFL standard footballers at best.
RCD if he had remained would've only been moved further down our midfield pecking order now that Taranto & Hopper have arrived. In hindsight, he never seemed to be in Dimma's plans despite claims otherwise he was being set for Cotch's role. Another club that plays a different way to us may give him another go.
The Club clearly lost patience after 4 years waiting for Stack to mature. Sounds like other clubs will be like Freo and hope Stack does a Stengle in year or two's time.
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Primary List: 34
Cat A Rookies: 3
Cat B Rookies: 1
Think we’ll use both picks in the national draft to bring us up to 36 on the primary list and then take either 2 or 3 players in the pre-season draft depending on whether we upgrade Miller to bring our cat A rookie list up to 5. This will leave one rookie spot open for the mid-season draft.
I think that's the way we will go too, TK.
Going by what Blair Hartley said about being excited by what will be around later in the draft, it sounds like we will use both picks 53 & 63 in the National Draft.
From a salary cap point of view, I think Miller will remain as a rookie. That then allows us two picks (#12 & #30) in the rookie draft keeping a rookie spot open for either the SPSS or MSD.
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I think we should’ve kept Stack.
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I think stack and RCD will get a crack on a Rookie list, and I hope it works out well if they get another chance
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Not surprised by any of the delistings TBBH
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Can't believe anyone would be surprised or disappointed by Stack being delisted.
He literally had one good year, about 4 years ago, and has been crap and unfit/unprofessional ever since.
Time to move on. We've given him multiple chances.
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Primary List: 34
Cat A Rookies: 3
Cat B Rookies: 1
Think we’ll use both picks in the national draft to bring us up to 36 on the primary list and then take either 2 or 3 players in the pre-season draft depending on whether we upgrade Miller to bring our cat A rookie list up to 5. This will leave one rookie spot open for the mid-season draft.
I think that's the way we will go too, TK.
Going by what Blair Hartley said about being excited by what will be around later in the draft, it sounds like we will use both picks 53 & 63 in the National Draft.
From a salary cap point of view, I think Miller will remain as a rookie. That then allows us two picks (#12 & #30) in the rookie draft keeping a rookie spot open for either the SPSS or MSD.
Agree re Miller. There’s really no benefit from a list perspective other than rewarding the player for their improvements.
Do we normally take a player through the SPSS? I know that’s how we got stack but can’t think of any others. In which case I think we take 2 each in the national and preseason draft leaving one rookie spot open in the mid-season draft.
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what has Ross produced during that time. SFA apart from a few games this year.
Stack should be re-rookied and as for RCD well if given a chance i think he would have produced something. Clearly not liked and I don’t agree with either decision.
Would hope at least goes on to kill it at another club.
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what has Ross produced during that time. SFA apart from a few games this year.
Stack should be re-rookied and as for RCD well if given a chance i think he would have produced something. Clearly not liked and I don’t agree with either decision.
Would hope at least goes on to kill it at another club.
Commitment, professionalism and improvement.
Stack has been lazy, unfit, non-committal and gone backwards in form because of it.
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improvement? Well i havent seen anything other than a few games. I know which player I would rather rookie for another year.
so on that note RCD is also lazy and unprofessional as well cause he didnt get 30 possys in the vfl only to stink it up in the limited games he played (compared to others) :shh
Agree with the others delistings.
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improvement? Well i havent seen anything other than a few games. I know which player I would rather rookie for another year.
so on that note RCD is also lazy and unprofessional as well cause he didnt get 30 possys in the vfl only to stink it up in the limited games he played (compared to others) :shh
Agree with the others delistings.
Eh? You said what has Ross done rah rah rah and Stack should be listed again.
Not talking about RCD.
Improvement on Ross you can debate but the rest of it? I see you conveniently ignored.
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Good luck to RCD, Aarts, WM, & Stacky.
Papers were probably stamped when Jack and Soldo decided to stay. Says a lot about the club that we have players go to visit other clubs who rollout the red carpet and give them the sales pitch and they still want to stay at the RFC. Our culture and environment is excellent.
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improvement? Well i havent seen anything other than a few games. I know which player I would rather rookie for another year.
so on that note RCD is also lazy and unprofessional as well cause he didnt get 30 possys in the vfl only to stink it up in the limited games he played (compared to others) :shh
Agree with the others delistings.
Eh? You said what has Ross done rah rah rah and Stack should be listed again.
Not talking about RCD.
Improvement on Ross you can debate but the rest of it? I see you conveniently ignored.
Well maybe he wasn’t professional but so what. Was Stengel? De goey? Many players came back from the offseason in poor shape. For a rookie spot I don’t care about being professional. I am willing to give it him another go based on talent alone.
According to Clarke he had improved and he was one his coaches. Perhaps the odd is is we have gone tight on our football admin and it’s impacted him. Get Betts down to punt road and maybe we will see him at his best.
Let’s face it though you have wanted him gone for some time now and that’s your right. I don’t agree just like I don’t agree about RCD.
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Does anyone know the list status of the King brothers?
I can’t see at least one of them staying at those shocking clubs. I’d be watching the pies with the cap space cleared in making a big play in the coming 1-2 years.
Jack out. King in. That would be nice and at the same send the afl into meltdown territory…again.
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Does anyone know the list status of the King brothers?
Both are contracted
GC one until at least the end of 2024
And rabble Club one is longer
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improvement? Well i havent seen anything other than a few games. I know which player I would rather rookie for another year.
so on that note RCD is also lazy and unprofessional as well cause he didnt get 30 possys in the vfl only to stink it up in the limited games he played (compared to others) :shh
Agree with the others delistings.
Eh? You said what has Ross done rah rah rah and Stack should be listed again.
Not talking about RCD.
Improvement on Ross you can debate but the rest of it? I see you conveniently ignored.
Well maybe he wasn’t professional but so what. Was Stengel? De goey? Many players came back from the offseason in poor shape. For a rookie spot I don’t care about being professional. I am willing to give it him another go based on talent alone.
According to Clarke he had improved and he was one his coaches. Perhaps the odd is is we have gone tight on our football admin and it’s impacted him. Get Betts down to punt road and maybe we will see him at his best.
Let’s face it though you have wanted him gone for some time now and that’s your right. I don’t agree just like I don’t agree about RCD.
FJ that is a terrible precedent to set to give players more leeway in terms of their commitment, dedication and professionalism just because they happen to be more talented than others. The club gave him 4 years and if nothing has changed you can’t blame them for finally cutting their ties.
You use stengle as an example. I don’t think there were any questions on his professionalism in his time with us, he wasn’t cracking our team at the height of our dynasty and was homesick so we facilitated a trade for him back to the crows. He had off-field issues at the crows and they responded by delisting him. It seems it took all of that for the penny to finally drop for him as he went back to the state leagues, worked his backside off and got another crack at it with Geelong and we all know how it went for him there. Maybe a similar thing will happen with stack but if it does I won’t be lamenting the club for cutting him loose as you can’t just keep waiting for the penny to drop. As they say, hard work beats talent every single day of the week.
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Does anyone know the list status of the King brothers?
Both are contracted
GC one until at least the end of 2024
And rabble Club one is longer
Seems our list team talent players for a couple of years before they become available. Probably why we didn’t take more mids in last years draft when we were crying out for them as the club knew they were well placed to get one/both of TT and Hopper.
Probably a similar thing happening with a few key position forwards. As well as the king brothers, I hope they are looking at Larkey from the Roos although with all this bang on about top teams pillaging the bottom teams it wouldn’t surprise me if the AFL came up with a new rule to block that. Next season will be his 7th so he would be a free agent I think?
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improvement? Well i havent seen anything other than a few games. I know which player I would rather rookie for another year.
so on that note RCD is also lazy and unprofessional as well cause he didnt get 30 possys in the vfl only to stink it up in the limited games he played (compared to others) :shh
Agree with the others delistings.
Eh? You said what has Ross done rah rah rah and Stack should be listed again.
Not talking about RCD.
Improvement on Ross you can debate but the rest of it? I see you conveniently ignored.
Well maybe he wasn’t professional but so what. Was Stengel? De goey? Many players came back from the offseason in poor shape. For a rookie spot I don’t care about being professional. I am willing to give it him another go based on talent alone.
According to Clarke he had improved and he was one his coaches. Perhaps the odd is is we have gone tight on our football admin and it’s impacted him. Get Betts down to punt road and maybe we will see him at his best.
Let’s face it though you have wanted him gone for some time now and that’s your right. I don’t agree just like I don’t agree about RCD.
I've said that I'd be prepared to rookie RCD and Stack again but I'm not surprised they've been cut and I think it's hard to make a strong case for keeping them.
Comparing to JDG seems a bit silly. Unprofessional at times yes but he's also an all Australian - stack not fit to polish his boots by comparison surely.
Otherwise I'm sure some blokes have come back under done but not 3 years in a row...
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We don’t play footy for the games we’ll never quite remember but for the teammates we’ll never forget. #alwaysrichmondmen
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfFLJWOUYAEu9vf?format=jpg&name=small)
https://twitter.com/hardwick_damien/status/1581127573911633920
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So,
We currently have 38 on our list, 34 senior list and 4 rookie list.
Is the minimum number of players still 42 players combine on the list and maximum 44?
If it is 42, do we think we will draft 4 players from:
2 players form National Draft/PSD and 2 players form Rookie Draft?
3/1?
4/0?
1/3?
0/4?
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Save a spot for msd imo
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2 from national draft and 2 from rookie draft. Will bring us to 36 primary list and 5 cat A rookie list which leaves one spot open for the mid season draft.
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Here is a graphic to help people make sense of our available list spots:
(https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/attachments/richmond-list-changes-jpg.1536964/)
Source: Bigfooty (https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2022-draft-pool.1289666/post-77127317)
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Mitch Wallis just quit the Dogs.
Is he worth picking up for a year or two? Would cost nothing. Probably a better option that our pick 88 or whatever it is.
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Honestly haven't seen enough of him but clearly he wants to play senior football every week. He wouldn't be a chance of that here with our midfield surely.
Solid depth though. Can battle it out with Jack Graham in the 2s to see who gets to be emergency
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Honestly haven't seen enough of him but clearly he wants to play senior football every week. He wouldn't be a chance of that here with our midfield surely.
Solid depth though. Can battle it out with Jack Graham in the 2s to see who gets to be emergency
Think he's struggled a lot after his injury issues. Was clearly behind guys like Macrae, Dunkley etc.
Dunno if he's cooked or not personally but he's apparently a great clubman.
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Mitch Wallis just quit the Dogs.
Is he worth picking up for a year or two? Would cost nothing. Probably a better option that our pick 88 or whatever it is.
Andy I think he would turn into an inadvertent list clogger in so much as he would be taking the position of a younger type that we should be giving game time too.
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Mitch Wallis just quit the Dogs.
Is he worth picking up for a year or two? Would cost nothing. Probably a better option that our pick 88 or whatever it is.
Andy I think he would turn into an inadvertent list clogger in so much as he would be taking the position of a younger type that we should be giving game time too.
Good chance of that happening but there's also a very high chance that both Prestia and Cotchin will do hammies and miss games.
No idea if Dusty will be fit and firing in 2023.
So we'd be hoping our midfield of Taranto, Hopper, Sonsie, Graham, Bolton, Short all stay fit and play well. Bolton playing more midfield time hurts our forward line too so I could see Wallis being a useful rotating mid/injury insurance player.
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Our 2 national draft picks will end up being in the 40-50 range so pretty sure they’ll use those on a couple of kids.
Maybe with one of our rookie picks. I’d probably pass though and pick up some untried talent. None of the delisted players by clubs so far look super enticing.
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Richmond look most likely to use only two picks.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/858808/how-many-picks-your-club-is-set-to-use-at-the-2022-afl-draft
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How the hell we extended Castagna's contract still has me shaking my head.
Still think the likes of Graham, Baker, Short could have got us back into the nd if we were just bold enough.
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Blair Hartley says we'll have two picks in the national draft.
He also said we have three picks available in the rookie draft but we might keep one or two of those free for guys who miss out on the draft to train with us over the preseason. We're excited by that as well.
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I hope one of the kids we recruit makes it. With the odds suggesting about 1 in 4 will play more than 50 games at the picks we have in the national draft and the Rookie is pot luck
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Our chief recruiter Matt Clarke also said he likes the idea of keeping a rookie spot open for an end of preseason SSPS pick in March.
Clarke also said we could get some of our guys we delisted back as part of this preseason training group we will look at but he thinks they will get opportunities at other clubs.
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Richmond look most likely to use only two picks.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/858808/how-many-picks-your-club-is-set-to-use-at-the-2022-afl-draft
This is both a reward and a punishment for a good game :)
I think this pick is good enough. But the game will be seen.
And yes, I agree that the contract with Castagna looks unnecessary...
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Both Hartley and Clarke mentioned that we need a “developing key forward”.
Clarke said to find one around our 2 picks is going to be tricky.
He said we have our eyes on some boys (tall forwards) in the SA? or WAFL? and we hope they fall to our picks.
Source: Talking Tigers Podcast
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Am i wrong here we have 38 players listed with Hopper and Taranto and retirements and delistings.
Arent list sizes usually around 44? So how in hell are we only going to use two nd picks and thats it.
Reckon people are missing a trick here especially when it comes to mids.
Yes we have a good amount of mids for seniors, but FMD the second team is really wanting for them.
Key forwards are in the same boat it is laughable.
If 44 players on teams lists is the average then id be scouring the whole country for at least two mids to replace RC-D and Martyn, FFS WE HAVE SO FEW KEY FWDS LETS GET A KID AND LETS SCOUR THE FREAKIN STATE LEAGUES FOR THE OTHER.
That alone would take us to 42 players. Still leaving openings for two others.
Heres a look at what i think we need to do in the reserves.
b: Mansell - State League player - ####
HB:Brown - Nyuon - Short. No Guarantees with Nyuon hence the even greater need to get a tall defender into the system. YES SHORT.
C: Banks - Baker - Ralphsmith. Yeah people will raise their arms at Baker playing two's.
R: Soldo - Ross - Graham . Geez all three are now not best 22.
HF: Clarke - Bauer - Dow. Bauer is hardly a key fwd more a third tall type.
FF: Castagna - XXXX - Ryan. Ryan is a ruckman but we will be forced to play him kpf
Int: Colina _xxxx - xxxx - xxxx
They know there is a problem yet they continue to sit on their hands and pretend it will be alright.
For Geez sakes the holes are there for everyone to see. No Key fwds few mids even with Baker, Graham Ross and Short named down there.
A real lack of experienced players a real lack of tall defenders with just Nyuon especially if Miller players second ruck and Gibcus plays seniors as well.
Why are we never trying to do the simple expedient of mirroring what we do in the seniors in the two's.
Pretty clear where the list short comings are you only need look at the seconds.
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I do agree with a lot of that. A bloke like Garthwaite obviously wasn't going to cut the mustard in the AFL but you notice that it can hurt the 2's when fellas like him are desisted and not really replaced with a young player/state leaguer that plays the same role.
Definitely need a couple of talls at a minimum
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44 spot max list size includes 2 category b rookies. Within the ‘main’ list for lack of a proper term (primary + category a rookies) you are only allowed a maximum of 42 players. Atm we have 34 on the primary list and 3 cat a rookies so I would expect them to take 2 players in each of the national and rookie drafts to bring those numbers to 36 and 5 for a total of 41. That leaves one cat a rookie spot for either the spp period or the mid season draft. They could theoretically also add another cat b rookie as we only have 1 of the maximum 2 in colina but I don’t think they’ll do so personally.
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Simple from here. Draft tall forwards. Take a punt on a couple.
I see Mitch Lewis and have hope that it's possible to find one late in the draft.
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Tigers’ big list calls: Every player’s contract status
Richmond has added two star recruits on long-term deals but where does the rest of the list sit?
HeraldSun
25 October 2022
Richmond bounced back into the finals after a year outside the eight but lost a thriller to Brisbane at the first hurdle.
On the back of the retirements of premiership trio Shane Edwards, Kane Lambert and Josh Caddy, the Tigers have reloaded by adding GWS midfielders Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper during the trade period.
Do the moves jam the flag window open? Where does Richmond’s list sit entering the 2023 campaign? Here’s the contract status of every player on the list.
1. Nick Vlastuin. Age: 28 | Games: 190 | Status: Signed to 2026
The defender benefited from the retirement of Bachar Houli, averaging a career-high 21.19 possessions in an impressive season. Inked a five-year deal last year.
2. Dylan Grimes. Age: 31 | Games: 207 | Status: Signed to 2023
Named co-captain before the start of the season and had another consistent campaign before sustaining tendon damage to his hamstring that required surgery in the lead-up to the finals.
3. Dion Prestia. Age: 30 | Games: 192 | Status: Signed to 2024
One of Richmond’s most important players, Prestia has another two seasons left on a deal he agreed to last year. After playing just nine games the previous two campaigns, the midfielder featured in 19 in 2022 before he was injured during the elimination final loss.
4. Dustin Martin. Age: 31 | Games: 269 | Status: Signed to 2024
Rumours suggested the superstar would leave at season’s end, but he stayed. Martin played just nine games in 2022, taking personal leave early in the campaign after his dad Shane’s death then later sustaining a hamstring injury. Still has two years to run on the massive seven-year deal he signed in 2017. How he returns next year will have a big impact on the club’s fortunes.
5. Jack Ross. Age: 22 | Games: 44 | Status: Signed to 2024
The midfielder had been without a deal for next season before re-signing for two years leading up to the finals. Looms as an important player in coming campaigns as the older guard retires.
6. Robbie Tarrant. Age: 33 | Games: 193 | Status: Signed to 2023
The veteran defender played 20 games in his first season at the club after arriving from North Melbourne. Tarrant has a year to run on his contract.
7. Liam Baker. Age: 24 | Games: 87 | Status: Signed to 2024
Baker’s signature was much sought-after and the WA product rebuffed interest from West Coast to ink a two-year deal with the Tigers. He has been an important player in a variety of roles.
8. Jack Riewoldt. Age: 33 | Games: 326 | Status: Signed to 2023
The long-time Richmond star signed a one-year extension in early September. Riewoldt, who sits second all-time second for games at the Tigers and fourth for goals, is coming off a 40-major campaign. He missed just two matches in 2022.
9. Trent Cotchin. Age: 32 | Games: 287 | Status Signed to 2023
The former captain inked a one-season extension after the club’s elimination final loss to Brisbane. Cotchin played well enough this year to continue. The 300-game milestone is on the horizon.
10. Shane Edwards. Age: 33 | Games: 303 | Status: Retired
The three-time premiership player bowed out at the end of the season. A brilliant player who was instrumental to Richmond’s success, Edwards was the medical substitute in his swan song, the elimination final loss to Brisbane.
11. Jason Castagna. Age: 26 | Games: 134 | Status: Signed to 2023
The small forward has another season to run on a deal signed 12 months ago. He was the medical substitute in each of the last three minor rounds and did not feature in the elimination final.
15. Jayden Short. Age: 26 | Games: 137 | Status: Signed to 2027
The Tigers’ 2020 best-and-fairest agreed to a five-year contract extension in May, a deal that should make him a one-club player. Spent more time in the midfield this past season.
16. Jake Aarts. Age: 27 | Games: 42 | Status: Delisted
Aarts was the medical substitute in five of his seven matches this year, unable to regularly crack into the team. The mature-age recruit was delisted this month.
17. Daniel Rioli. Age: 25 | Games: 137 | Status: Signed to 2027
Rioli became a hot commodity in his contract year after an impressive shift from the forward line to half-back. Inked a five-season extension and also made the All-Australian squad of 40.
19. Tom Lynch. Age: 29 | Games: 212 | Status: Signed to 2025
His 63 goals from 19 games gave him the best average of his career yet he could only make the 44-man All-Australian squad, not the team. Lynch has plenty of good football left and is contracted for three more years.
20. Ivan Soldo. Age: 26 | Games: 49 | Status: Signed to 2024
Was linked with a trade to GWS but ultimately Richmond did not part with him. The Tigers re-signed the ruckman on a three-year deal in late 2021 after he had sidelined all season with a serious knee injury. Featured in 13 minor-round games this past campaign as Richmond moved away from playing two specialist rucks, but that could change again if the interchange is expanded next season.
21. Noah Balta. Age: 22 | Games: 62 | Status: Signed to 2023
Looms as a re-signing priority heading into next season. Hamstring issues sidelined the versatile big man earlier in the campaign but he returned in round 18 and went on to help the Tigers secure another finals berth.
22. Josh Caddy. Age: 29 | Games: 174 | Status: Retired
Hung up his boots in May while battling a hamstring problem, opening a list spot for the Tigers ahead of the mid-season draft. Played in two Richmond flags after stints at Gold Coast and Geelong.
23. Kane Lambert. Age: 30 | Games: 135 | Status: Retired
The three-time flag winner pulled the pin, effective immediately, in July because of a nagging hip issue. His injury restricted him to just seven games in 2022. Had been a very important member of the Tigers’ premiership teams.
25. Toby Nankervis. Age: 28 | Games: 121 | Status: Signed to 2023
Awarded the co-captaincy at the start of the season and was a warrior again, playing every match. A crucial member of the side, Nankervis has a year to run on a deal he inked in late 2020.
26. Riley Collier-Dawkins. Age: 22 | Games: 11 | Status: Delisted
The 20th pick in the 2018 draft featured just twice at AFL level this year. Richmond re-signed a heap of its younger players late in the campaign but axed the tall midfielder this month.
27. Thomson Dow. Age: 21 | Games: 13 | Status: Signed to 2023
Played five matches in a row early in the season but could not force his way into the team for the run into the finals, aside from one game in round 17. Has another year left on his deal.
28. Josh Gibcus. Age: 19 | Games: 18 | Status: Signed to 2025
The first-year swingman added two seasons to his initial contract ahead of the finals. Taken at pick 9 in last year’s draft, Gibcus missed just five matches and showed plenty of promise.
29. Shai Bolton. Age: 23 | Games: 90 | Status: Signed to 2023
The West Australian has become one of the best and most watchable players in the competition, so coach Damien Hardwick is hopeful he will be tied down to a longer deal soon. Kicked 43.41 for the year, including 4.5 against Port Adelaide.
30. Tom Brown. Age: 19 | Games: 0 | Status: Signed to 2025
The son of former Geelong player Paul Brown was taken at pick 17 in last year’s draft. A rebounding defender, Brown is yet to debut but signed a two-year contract extension last week.
31. Rhyan Mansell. Age: 22 | Games: 15 | Status: Signed to 2023
Extended his contract in August last year by two seasons. The rugged defender’s two games this campaign came in rounds 6 and 8, including a run-in with Jack Ginnivan that led to a one-match suspension.
32. Samson Ryan. Age: 21 | Games: 1 | Status: Signed to 2024
The ruck/forward inked a two-year contract extension in January. Debuted against St Kilda in round 15, 2021, his sole game to date, and has been progressing in the VFL.
33. Kamdyn McIntosh. Age: 28 | Games: 146 | Status: Signed to 2023
Re-signed on a two-year deal late in 2021. McIntosh had another reliable campaign, featuring in all bar five matches.
34. Jack Graham. Age: 24 | Games: 97 | Status: Signed to 2023
Set to enter the last season of a three-year deal he signed late in 2020. Toured Port Adelaide during this month’s trade period but stayed at Tigerland. Was an emergency for the elimination final after being sidelined with a foot injury.
35. Nathan Broad. Age: 29 | Games: 107 | Status: Signed to 2023
Was reported to have quietly triggered an extension earlier this year. Did not miss a game, again proving very reliable in defence.
36. Will Martyn. Age: 21 | Games: 3 | Status: Delisted
The midfielder did not play a game this year after three in 2021. He was axed this month.
37. Matt Parker. Age: 26 | Games: 30 | Status: Delisted
Mutually agreed to part ways with the Tigers in July so he could return home to WA for family reasons. He, his partner and three children reportedly struggled with life in Melbourne. The former Saint played 11 games for Richmond.
38. Noah Cumberland. Age: 21 | Games: 9 | Status: Signed to 2024
The forward was a livewire after debuting as an unused medical substitute in round 11, kicking 19.13 from his next eight games. Signed a two-year extension in early August.
39. Mate Colina. Age: 23 | Games: 0 | Status: Out of contract
The former basketballer made his VFL debut mid-season and went on to feature in seven state-league games in total. At 213cm, he would be the tallest AFL player if he ever lines up at the top level.
40. Tyler Sonsie. Age: 19 | Games: 7 | Status: Signed to 2025
The Tigers have clearly been impressed with what Sonsie has shown since being drafted with pick 28 last year. He added two more seasons to his deal in early August and played the last seven games of the season, including the elimination final.
41. Sam Banks. Age: 19 | Games: 0 | Status: Signed to 2025
One of Richmond’s five top-30 picks in last year’s draft, the Tasmanian has impressed at VFL level. He gathered a season-high 26 disposals in the club’s final state-league match of the campaign. One of three youngsters to sign two-year extensions last week.
42. Judson Clarke. Age: 18 | Games: 3 | Status: Signed to 2025
Booted two goals on debut against Port Adelaide then played the next two games before falling out of the side. Taken with pick 30 in November, he was the third of the trio of Tiger cubs to add two years to the contracts in recent days.
43. Jacob Bauer. Age: 20 | Games: 0 | Status: Signed to 2023
The mid-season draftee arrived at Tigerland from SANFL club North Adelaide on an 18-month contract, giving him extra security. He is a marking forward who kicked 16.12 from nine VFL games.
44. Sydney Stack. Age: 22 | Games: 35 | Status: Delisted
Featured just twice at AFL level this year – once as an unused medical substitute – and not at all after round 8. He had been sidelined with a fractured cheekbone. Was delisted this month.
45. Hugo Ralphsmith. Age: 20 | Games: 19 | Status: Signed to 2023
The dashing half-back was a regular for the bulk of the campaign before falling out of the side for the run into finals. Has another year left on his contract.
46. Ben Miller. Age: 23 | Games: 12 | Status: Signed to 2024
Like Cumberland and Sonsie, the big man re-signed in early August. Miller, who played 11 games this year in defence and back-up ruckman, including the elimination final, added two years to his deal.
47. Bigoa Nyuon. Age: 21 | Games: 1 | Status: Out of contract
Made his AFL debut in the round 9 win over Hawthorn but could not force his way back into the side afterwards. Faces an anxious wait.
49. Maurice Rioli. Age: 20 | Games: 17 | Status: Signed to 2024
Inked a new, two-year deal leading into the finals. The pressure forward’s second season featured 14 goals from 16 games while taking another step in his development.
50. Marlion Pickett. Age: 30 | Games: 57 | Status: Signed to 2023
The West Australian’s brilliant AFL story will continue next season after agreeing a one-year extension in mid-August. After famously debuting in the 2019 grand final, Pickett has barely missed a game during the past three campaigns.
RECRUITS
Jacob Hopper. Age: 25 | Games: 114 | Status: Signed to 2028
The midfielder arrived from GWS during the trade period, along with ex-Giants teammate Tim Taranto. In 2021, he finished third in the best-and-fairest and was in the All-Australian squad, but injury restricted him to seven games this past season.
Tim Taranto. Age: 24 | Games: 114 | Status: Signed to 2028
Featured 16 times for the Giants this season before requesting a trade to Richmond. Like Hopper, Taranto inked a seven-year deal at the Tigers.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/richmond-2022-list-analysis-every-tigers-contract-status/news-story/27c724262222b79f1e4dd7746987c97e
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Going by that there is 18 players out of contract at the end of 2023. Including Nyuon and Colina who currently don't have a contract and could even be gone this year depending on what we do.
Can see three retirements Riewoldt, Cotchin and Tarrant for sure imo. Depending on the season and injuries Grimes may even pull the pin and if Pickett has a poor year who knows. All are 31 plus at the start of 2023.
All of Nyuon, Colina, Castagna, Dow and Mansell must be in the gun playing for their careers. If we had cut all of them this year no one would probably have batted an eye.
Imo players like McIntosh Graham Short and Baker could also be in trouble but are probably safe Short and Baker have multiple yrs left on their contacts but the first two are only signed till the end of 2023 and have others looking down their necks.
Gunna be interesting next yr.
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Graham has a trigger clause in his contract
Plays a certain number of games in 2023 and it triggers for 2024
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He would get a contract for 2024 regardless of whether or not he plays enough games to trigger the clause. Can never have enough depth
His (and others) future is reliant on if he steps up and goes to another level to stay in the 22 every week or if they can't and decide to seek employment elsewhere
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He would get a contract for 2024 regardless of whether or not he plays enough games to trigger the clause. Can never have enough depth
His (and others) future is reliant on if he steps up and goes to another level to stay in the 22 every week or if they can't and decide to seek employment elsewhere
I get your point but if he hits that trigger it becomes a mute point on whether he gets offered another contract or not.
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He would get a contract for 2024 regardless of whether or not he plays enough games to trigger the clause. Can never have enough depth
His (and others) future is reliant on if he steps up and goes to another level to stay in the 22 every week or if they can't and decide to seek employment elsewhere
I get your point but if he hits that trigger it becomes a mute point on whether he gets offered another contract or not.
Moot point is the correct phrase and I agree
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Former AFL recruiter Matt Rendell:
Sydney Stack
“He could be on anyone’s list. He’s a really good player at his best, for him to get delisted by Richmond worries me because their culture is great.
“Is he just too loose? That’s up to him.”
Jake Aarts
“I reckon he should have a lot of suitors here.
“North Melbourne would be great for him, they haven’t really got a decent small forward. He’s tough, he kicks goals and he’s come out of a great system.
“Essendon should be (interested) too… certainly Aarts and (possibly) Anthony McDonald-Tipungwuti in the forward line, that puts some speed and defence into their forward line.
“West Coast should be looking as well, Bulldogs if they don’t get Rowe, and certainly the Hawks.
“People say they’ve got Dylan Moore, but I think they’ll want to play Dylan Moore more in the midfield, so they’d be looking for a small forward.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/10/28/the-13-delisted-players-former-recruiter-expects-to-receive-afl-lifelines/
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How your club is placed ahead of the list lodgement deadline and upcoming AFL draft
Marc McGowan
Nca Newswire
November 2nd, 2022
The first of the AFL’s second chance windows opens for a week from Thursday, when delisted free agents can officially sign with a new club.
That period is followed by the list lodgement deadline on November 10 for players to retire and out-of-contract players to nominate for the drafts, which run between November 28 and 30.
Delisted free agents can also sign with teams from November 11 to 15.
Here is the list state of play for every club only weeks out from the national draft.
RICHMOND
Arrivals: Jacob Hopper (traded/GWS Giants), Tim Taranto (traded/GWS Giants)
Departures: Jake Aarts (delisted), Josh Caddy (retired), Riley Collier-Dawkins (delisted), Shane Edwards (retired), Kane Lambert (retired), Will Martyn (delisted), Matthew Parker (delisted), Sydney Stack (delisted)
Uncontracted: None
Contracted: 38 (one category B rookie)
Draft picks: 53, 63
The Tigers made their big splash in the trade period, trading for Giants midfielders Hopper and Taranto, so they will use only two late draft picks this year. They will upgrade Marlion Pickett to the primary list to meet the AFL’s list requirements. There is a chance Richmond will leave a rookie spot open for a pre-season or mid-season draft recruit.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/how-your-club-is-placed-ahead-of-the-list-lodgement-deadline-and-upcoming-afl-draft/news-story/2059a30b5208a9e155f659c597f868a8
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Richmond's List Needs
Jack Jovanovski
zerohanger.com
9 November 2022
Key Position Power:
It's hard to see the Tigers not opting to at least consider selecting one or more key position players of some sort at the draft, whether it be a tall forward to help ease along Riewoldt's imminent transition to retirement, a ruckman to aid co-captain Toby Nankervis, or another tall defender to slot in alongside Dylan Grimes, Nick Vlastuin, Robbie Tarrant, Noah Balta, Gibcus, and the emerging and versatile Miller.
Despite modest early returns on the 2021 Tarrant trade, the ex-Roo noticeably improved as the season progressed, eventually becoming a cornerstone member of Richmond's backline, especially after a number of injuries to key Tigers defenders threatened to derail their 2022 season.
Therefore, with the Richmond backline appearing considerably set, for the time being, the attention turns back to the future of the yellow-and-black forward line, and the matter of finding another power forward to partner with spearhead goalkicker Tom Lynch.
It's fairly clear to most that Riewoldt's 2023 campaign will be the last of his successful and storied career, and with the lack of depth after himself and Lynch, considering a key forward with one of Richmond's three picks should be at the front of list boss Blair Hartley's mind.
Among the Tigers' current tall-forward crop: swingman Noah Balta, who is objectively better-suited as a defender; Jacob Bauer, whom the Tigers nabbed at this year's Mid-Season Draft; raw ruck-forward Samson Ryan, who has looked like a deer in headlights during his limited time in the spotlight; and back-up ruckman Ivan Soldo, who does not possess the requisite physical traits to be a leading key forward, and who was the subject of trade speculation when the Tigers were dealing with the Giants a month ago.
https://www.zerohanger.com/afl-draft-focus-richmond-tigers-129730/
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The key forward we bid on in 2020 and Essendon matched has been delisted.
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How'd he go in the VFL this year?
Not surprised he didn't flourish at that cesspool despite them having no key forwards of note
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The key forward we bid on in 2020 and Essendon matched has been delisted.
But they intend to rookie him or something
How'd he go in the VFL this year?
Not surprised he didn't flourish at that cesspool despite them having no key forwards of note
Well I suppose it depends. Not getting a game in 2 years would suggest not very well. But as we know good VFL form doesn't always mean senior AFL games. (Just had to throw that in ;D)
I think that the fact they intend to hafe him train with them and rookie him means he went ok
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Could offer him a rookie spot.
Chance to flee that excuse for a club and come to a real industry leader.
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I'm surprised Mansell is still on the list
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I'm surprised Mansell is still on the list
No surprise
He's contracted and is a good back up (depth) player. Plus the coaches love him ;D
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I'm surprised Mansell is still on the list
No surprise
He's contracted and is a good back up (depth) player. Plus the coaches love him ;D
Never mind what the coaches say - I love him!
He won me over when he smacked Ginnivan .... :clapping ;D
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Back to 8 West Australians on our list. Green and Smith replacing Parker and Stack.
Liam Baker
Shai Bolton
Nathan Broad
Kamdyn McIntosh
Ben Miller
Marlion Pickett
Kaleb Smith
Steely Green
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The AFL confirmed on Monday that Collingwood, Fremantle, Geelong, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond and the Western Bulldogs all had a list spot available, while Gold Coast and St Kilda had two.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2022-list-spots-rookie-draft-trade-period-train-on-players-former-players/news-story/0b5dd212e22119f90b325adda75f03e1
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With the glorious news of Bolton’s resigning. Next big one for the list management team to work on is surely Balta. Has had some hiccups with form/fitness in 2021-22 after his ripping 2020 breakout season but still a key cog in our future.
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This is our list break down as far as primary roles goes imo.
Mids inside/out
Taranto, Prestia, Martin, Cotchin, Hopper, Bolton, Sonsie, Baker, Ross, Graham, Dow, Green.
Mids running/outside
Pickett, McIntosh, Ralphsmith, Banks, Short. The latter two obviously give us a hb option.
Thats 17 mids all up numbers are good. Imo dependent on form and injury there is a good chance that at least one of Cotchin, Martin or Pickett could retire. Dow needs a significant improvement year to keep his spot or should be delisted. Imo to get back into the 2023 draft Trading one or two of Graham, Short or Baker would allow us to do this.
Rucks
Nankervis, Soldo, Colina, imo are all primarily ruckmen
Ruck/fwd
Ryan primarily a ruckman looks the most likely of them to play a reasonable fwd role.
stuff
Miller who is a genuine utility looks more like a kpp than a ruck hence the distinction between him and Ryan.
Imo if Colina and Ryan improve as ruckmen i think we could again offer Soldo up as a trade to get into the nd. Imo he is in competition with Nankervis for the first ruck spot but he is bloody hopeless in any other role imo.
Tall and kpd
We have 6 who can play KPD with another two in Broad and particularly Grimes who can also play kpd but they regularly get other roles in the back half. The six others are Nyuon, Young, Gibcus, Tarrant with Balta and Miller as potential swingmen.
We clearly have no need for more KPD's but id say a tall defender say 189 - 192cm like Broad or Grimes would not go astray. Tarrant could retire at seasons end and i thing Biggy could be in real trouble if he has a poor year.
Small/Medium defenders
Smith, Rioli, Mansell, Short are all smalls. Leaving Banks and Brown with the big bodied Vlastuin as tallish mediums.
Banks is being played on a wing but he got drafted because of his play as a hb. I think Short has been squeezed out of the back line in particular by Rioli and is imo not best back 6. Reckon we could do with another Vlastuin type and size.
Kpf/tall forwards
Lynch Riewoldt and Bauer as a tall fwd rather than a genuine sized kpf. Depth here is dire and crazy imo that it continues yr after yr to not be addressed.
Options here are of course Balta and Miller but Balta will play KPD and Miller should play second ruck/fwd. Imo Miller should be starting games where it is viable as a fwd and giving Nankervis a chop out. I also think to date Millers best games for us has been as a defender.
small/medium forwards
Campbell, Clarke, Cumberland, Rioli and Castagna. we dont have a taller fwd like say Gary Rohan at 189cm and could do with one around that height the tallest we have is Cumberland at 183cm.
Imo Castagna should be delisted at seasons end creating a spot for either a bigger medium fwd or a key fwd as we have enough small/medium forwards especially with mids like Bolton Dusty Taranto and Sonsie who can go thru there.
Next year The following scenario could be on the cards
Retire - Cotchin, Riewoldt, Tarrant.
Delist - Castagna, Mansell, Dow, Nyuon
Some Trade options - Soldo, Short, Graham, Baker and Ross. why well Soldo may not get many games and the squeeze is certainly on Graham and Ross and i think Baker and Short are no longer the best options for a mid game or defensive game.