One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on April 17, 2007, 04:16:48 AM
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Hawks fly, Tigers flounder
17 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Garry Lyon
THE popular perception is that Terry Wallace had his choice of either the Richmond or Hawthorn job at the end of the 2004 season and elected to go with the Tigers, Garry Lyon writes.
The thought being that their list may have been a little further advanced. Fair enough, for at the time it would have been a pretty subjective call.
The Hawks appointed the untried Alistair Clarkson. Both coaches remain in the position today.
Two seasons and three games down the track there would be few in the football world who would share Wallace's opinion of the respective lists right now.
One sits on the precipice of an exciting new era, buoyed by the continued development of an ultra-exciting combination of young, tall, powerful, athletic key position players and hard-running, ball-winning midfielders. The other is staring down the barrel of having to rebuild all over again.
It reflects a brave, totally transparent recruiting philosophy implemented by Clarkson on his arrival.
Trade those who don't figure in the long-term future of the club for the highest draft selections they can deliver, and then take the best young kids.
Start with the spine of the team, then build around them.
Pick players on what they can deliver over a 10-year period, not what they can deliver now, be prepared to suffer some short-term pain and don't deviate from the stated goal.
The Tigers appear to be in a state of flux. Richmond has a smattering of talented youngsters, an ageing goal-to-goal line and carries some expensive investments whose return has not matched expectation.
The gap between the two has widened markedly in a relatively short space of time, in terms of quality, succession planning and balance.
The Tigers have no one to compare with Buddy Franklin, arguably the most exciting talent in the game and a player they overlooked in favour of Richard Tambling.
There is some irony in the fact that he is as close to a mirror image of a young Matthew Richardson as you could hope for, with one important exception. Kicking goals for him is as natural and exciting as it is laborious and excruciating for Richo.
Brett Deledio has been a success, and at selection No. 1 you would expect nothing less. But is he any further advanced than Jordan Lewis or Grant Birchall or even the rapidly emerging Clinton Young?
That trio have gone past Tambling, and the Tigers' number No. 4 selection in the 2005 draft needs to start having a greater impact on games.
Jarryd Roughead is going to be a very good player. Along with Simon Taylor, Xavier Ellis, Stephen Gilham and Ben McGlynn, they have all played roles in the Hawks' past two wins. Comparatively, Dean Polo and Nathan Foley would get a tick from Richmond supporters. Adam Pattison, Luke McGuane and Cameron Howat seem some way off it.
Tiger fans want to know where Danny Meyer (No. 12 in the '05 draft) is at. They want to know if Jarrod Oakley-Nicholls (No. 8 in '06) is going to be a 10-year player. They want to know if Cleve Hughes (No. 24 in '06) will hold down a key position within a couple of years.
With Matthew Richardson 32, Darren Gaspar turning 31 and Kane Johnson, Nathan Brown, Joel Bowden and Troy Simmonds turning 29, these questions become more pressing and the answers more important.
The Hawks can still look forward to introducing blue-chip youngsters like Beau Dowler, Beau Muston, Matt Little, Thomas Murphy and big Max Bailey, while their young veterans Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell and Trent Croad have plenty of football ahead.
Clarkson's attitude to list development is even more obvious when it comes to recycled players. In his time he has added just two players from other AFL clubs. Brent Guerra remains, while Bo Nixon was delisted in 2005.
At the same time he moved on Mark Graham, Jon Hay, Nathan Lonie, Lance Picioane and Peter Everitt.
Wallace would appear to have more of an open mind.
Over time he has added Mark Graham, Trent Knobel, Troy Simmonds, Patrick Bowden, Kent Kingsley and Graham Polak. Some have succeeded, some are still grappling with their baggage.
Aaron Fiora, Brad Ottens and David Rodan have all moved on and continued their careers with other AFL clubs.
The result is that one club has been unwavering in its commitment to stack its list with the best kids it can get. It was never better illustrated than at the 2005 national draft, with Hawthorn having five of the first 22 picks.
They selected, among others, Xavier Ellis, who they knew was going to play the following year with Melbourne Grammar, Dowler, who was recovering from a broken pelvis and not expected to play much footy at all and Muston, who was still recovering from a knee reconstruction.
The Hawks are in good shape for years to come on the back of their steadfast approach to their list development. The Tigers' future is far less certain. They have had a bit of a dabble everywhere: elite kids, high-profile trades, high-risk trades and now talk of a 2011 timeline.
If the senior job at these two clubs came up now, I know where most aspiring coaches would send their applications.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21569184%255E19771,00.html
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lyon is so fos and just goes which ever way the wind is blowing!
the hawks have won this yr but have played pathetic footy and have not been tested yet.
lets see what this thing head lyon rights in rnd 22. im going to save this article and let him read in in 19 weeks time
lyon is just a monkey
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Hawks fly, Tigers flounder
17 April 2007 Herald-Sun
Garry Lyon
THE popular perception is that Terry Wallace had his choice of either the Richmond or Hawthorn job at the end of the 2004 season and elected to go with the Tigers, Garry Lyon writes.
The thought being that their list may have been a little further advanced. Fair enough, for at the time it would have been a pretty subjective call.
The Hawks appointed the untried Alistair Clarkson. Both coaches remain in the position today.
Two seasons and three games down the track there would be few in the football world who would share Wallace's opinion of the respective lists right now.
One sits on the precipice of an exciting new era, buoyed by the continued development of an ultra-exciting combination of young, tall, powerful, athletic key position players and hard-running, ball-winning midfielders. The other is staring down the barrel of having to rebuild all over again.
It reflects a brave, totally transparent recruiting philosophy implemented by Clarkson on his arrival.
Trade those who don't figure in the long-term future of the club for the highest draft selections they can deliver, and then take the best young kids.
Start with the spine of the team, then build around them.
Pick players on what they can deliver over a 10-year period, not what they can deliver now, be prepared to suffer some short-term pain and don't deviate from the stated goal.
The Tigers appear to be in a state of flux. Richmond has a smattering of talented youngsters, an ageing goal-to-goal line and carries some expensive investments whose return has not matched expectation.
The gap between the two has widened markedly in a relatively short space of time, in terms of quality, succession planning and balance.
The Tigers have no one to compare with Buddy Franklin, arguably the most exciting talent in the game and a player they overlooked in favour of Richard Tambling.
There is some irony in the fact that he is as close to a mirror image of a young Matthew Richardson as you could hope for, with one important exception. Kicking goals for him is as natural and exciting as it is laborious and excruciating for Richo.
Brett Deledio has been a success, and at selection No. 1 you would expect nothing less. But is he any further advanced than Jordan Lewis or Grant Birchall or even the rapidly emerging Clinton Young?
That trio have gone past Tambling, and the Tigers' number No. 4 selection in the 2005 draft needs to start having a greater impact on games.
Jarryd Roughead is going to be a very good player. Along with Simon Taylor, Xavier Ellis, Stephen Gilham and Ben McGlynn, they have all played roles in the Hawks' past two wins. Comparatively, Dean Polo and Nathan Foley would get a tick from Richmond supporters. Adam Pattison, Luke McGuane and Cameron Howat seem some way off it.
Tiger fans want to know where Danny Meyer (No. 12 in the '05 draft) is at. They want to know if Jarrod Oakley-Nicholls (No. 8 in '06) is going to be a 10-year player. They want to know if Cleve Hughes (No. 24 in '06) will hold down a key position within a couple of years.
With Matthew Richardson 32, Darren Gaspar turning 31 and Kane Johnson, Nathan Brown, Joel Bowden and Troy Simmonds turning 29, these questions become more pressing and the answers more important.
The Hawks can still look forward to introducing blue-chip youngsters like Beau Dowler, Beau Muston, Matt Little, Thomas Murphy and big Max Bailey, while their young veterans Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell and Trent Croad have plenty of football ahead.
Clarkson's attitude to list development is even more obvious when it comes to recycled players. In his time he has added just two players from other AFL clubs. Brent Guerra remains, while Bo Nixon was delisted in 2005.
At the same time he moved on Mark Graham, Jon Hay, Nathan Lonie, Lance Picioane and Peter Everitt.
Wallace would appear to have more of an open mind.
Over time he has added Mark Graham, Trent Knobel, Troy Simmonds, Patrick Bowden, Kent Kingsley and Graham Polak. Some have succeeded, some are still grappling with their baggage.
Aaron Fiora, Brad Ottens and David Rodan have all moved on and continued their careers with other AFL clubs.
The result is that one club has been unwavering in its commitment to stack its list with the best kids it can get. It was never better illustrated than at the 2005 national draft, with Hawthorn having five of the first 22 picks.
They selected, among others, Xavier Ellis, who they knew was going to play the following year with Melbourne Grammar, Dowler, who was recovering from a broken pelvis and not expected to play much footy at all and Muston, who was still recovering from a knee reconstruction.
The Hawks are in good shape for years to come on the back of their steadfast approach to their list development. The Tigers' future is far less certain. They have had a bit of a dabble everywhere: elite kids, high-profile trades, high-risk trades and now talk of a 2011 timeline.
If the senior job at these two clubs came up now, I know where most aspiring coaches would send their applications.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21569184%255E19771,00.html
Would totally agree with what Gary has written
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the hawks are not flying, we have played better than them 4 no result.
hawks have been lucky and will fall
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Unfotunately I to have to agree with the article. The hawks did much better at the draft than what we did. Thats why if we finish bottom this year it should be seen as an opportunity to recorrect the balance and we must clean out the players who wont make it. I can see 8 or 9 changes again to the list.
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Unfotunately I to have to agree with the article. The hawks did much better at the draft than what we did. Thats why if we finish bottom this year it should be seen as an opportunity to recorrect the balance and we must clean out the players who wont make it. I can see 8 or 9 changes again to the list.
I think there would be a few surprising changes if there was a clean out.
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The Hawks have just got over 2 sides who haven't won a game yet and were flogged by Brisbane. The Hawks won 4 of their first 5 games last year against what turned out to be bottom sides then lost 12 of their next 13. Let's wait until round 22 to judge.
Also Roughead had been playing VFL before a late call up last week yet he doesn't cop the bagging Tambo does even though he was picked up earlier ::).
I think there would be a few surprising changes if there was a clean out.
Agree wayne on top of the obvious ones.
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Also Roughead had been playing VFL before a late call up last week yet he doesn't cop the bagging Tambo does even though he was picked up earlier ::).
But KP always take longer.......... ::)
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I think the trouble is most people read Lyon's article post here is that they ' can't see the wood for the trees"
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Also Roughead had been playing VFL before a late call up last week yet he doesn't cop the bagging Tambo does even though he was picked up earlier ::).
But KP always take longer.......... ::)
lol
Yet Lyon brings up Hughes who was taken the year after Roughead. He also mentions JON who has missed most of preseason training with a stress fracture yet Muston and co who have also had long-term injuries and haven't played a game will be champions. The funny thing is if we were 3-0 or even 2-1 which we could've been (I know we're not), we would still be in the exact same position list wise with the same deficiencies yet articles like this wouldn't be written. Footy is a results business.
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Andy Collins hit back at Garry Lyon's article:
Coburg has won three straight to charge to top place, perhaps temporarily with five Round 4 games left.
"We wouldn't have anticipated that with such a young group, but our young guys are coming along a lot quicker," Collins said.'
"And you know that article about Richmond youth and Hawthorn youth, well it was on display today, wasn't it?
"These are guys that Terry is looking at to step up and they are developing really nicely as footballers at the moment."
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21622318%255E19771,00.html
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as i said b4, garry lyon is fos, and has no idea
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Hawthorn are currently peroforming better than us because they have donw what we appear to be starting to do.
That is give the older guys the stuff and bring in the kids. Either way it appears we will finish on the bottom so you give the kids the experience of senior footy this year and add another pre-season on top of that and you are in a much better position.
Add to that some more top draft picks and Bob's your uncle :thumbsup
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While Lyon drools over Buddy and Lewis it is their middle-age breacket players - Hodge, Mitchell, Williams, Brown, Bateman, Campbell, Sewell, Osbourne, Clarke along - who are the Hawks core. Still too early in the season yet to get too excited about them. They started like this last year too before falling in a whole.
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Pick the list that lacks 22-27 year olds Garry Lyon ::). That's the difference. Hawthorn 16 compared to our 9 plus two rookies.
Hawthorn - players used: 25
32: Crawford
30: J.Smith, Vandenberg
29: Dixon
27: Croad
26: Jacobs
25: Bateman, Clarke
24: Campbell, Guerra, Mitchell, Osbourne, Taylor, Williams
23: Boyle, C.Brown, Ladson, Sewell
22: Gilham, Hodge
21: Dawson, Lewis, Little, McGlynn, Thurgood, Young, Gibson#
20: Bailey, Franklin, Roughead, McEntee#
19: Birchall, Dowler, Ellis, T.Tuck
18: J.P.Kennedy, Morton, Renouf, Thorp, B.Collins#, Suckling#
Richmond - players used: 25
32: Richo
31: Gaspar
29: N.Brown, K.Johnson
28: J.Bowden, Kingsley, Simmonds, Tivendale
27: Knobel
26: Hall
25: P.Bowden, Coughlan, Newman, Pettifer, S.Tuck
24: Hyde, Krakouer
23: Moore, King#
22: Hartigan, Polak, Schulz, Howat#
21: Foley, Jackson, Pattison, Raines, Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio, Hughes, McGuane, Meyer, Polo, Tambling, White, Graham#
19: Oakley-Nicholls, Peterson
18: A.Collins, Connors, Edwards, Riewoldt, Clingan#
# - rookies
bold - played this year
red - long-term injured
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the hawks bad luck is about to start
williams out for 6-8 weeks with a broken bone in his foot
there goes their no1 goalkicker
lets see buddy stand up :lol :lol :lol ;D :rollin :rollin :rollin :wallywink
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lets see buddy stand up :lol :lol :lol ;D :rollin :rollin :rollin :wallywink
:rollin
Jacobs is out too apparently.
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lets see buddy stand up :lol :lol :lol ;D :rollin :rollin :rollin :wallywink
:rollin
Jacobs is out too apparently.
yep he is, not sure if i heard right , but i think he has a knee injury
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Andy Collins hit back at Garry Lyon's article:
Coburg has won three straight to charge to top place, perhaps temporarily with five Round 4 games left.
"We wouldn't have anticipated that with such a young group, but our young guys are coming along a lot quicker," Collins said.'
"And you know that article about Richmond youth and Hawthorn youth, well it was on display today, wasn't it?
"These are guys that Terry is looking at to step up and they are developing really nicely as footballers at the moment."
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,21622318%255E19771,00.html
Love your work Andy ;D
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the hawks bad luck is about to start
williams out for 6-8 weeks with a broken bone in his foot
there goes their no1 goalkicker
lets see buddy stand up :lol :lol :lol ;D :rollin :rollin :rollin :wallywink
Buddy did today but not the rest of Lyon's so-called blue-chippers ;). I would say we're still level pegging with the Hawks with more true youngsters playing in our senior line-up. Lyon included Hawks who are 22+ years old in his "analysis" :yawn
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buddy did do ok today v an overrated an short defence
cant believe we lost to the dogs, i dont rate them, st kilda likewise
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Playing only one and half quarters like we did won't beat anyone let alone the dogs.
A Hawk supporter is getting stuck into Clarkson's coaching today on SEN because he reckons they should have beaten the dogs today lol. A caller followed saying the Hawks have a very thin second tier once they get a couple of injuries, Buddy will go home to WA and all their kids that the media are talking up haven't done anything and all Hawthorn can do is hope they do :lol.
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Playing only one and half quarters like we did won't beat anyone let alone the dogs.
A Hawk supporter is getting stuck into Clarkson's coaching today on SEN because he reckons they should have beaten the dogs today lol. A caller followed saying the Hawks have a very thin second tier once they get a couple of injuries, Buddy will go home to WA and all their kids that the media are talking up haven't done anything and all Hawthorn can do is hope they do :lol.
i heard him, he said that he has watched their reseves team box hill and they are shocking! lmao
how much did the dawks overuse and butcher the ball today lol
and ppl say we are the clanger kings lmao!
hawks are deluding themselves
and if we played our first 4 games as good as we played teh eagles we would be 4-1 by now
only if
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If we were 4-1 we'd probably be deluding ourselves too. Our unforced skill level is still well below par even if we had won the games we could have. At least we aren't getting ahead of ourselves like the Hawks and a number of other Vic clubs are.
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If we were 4-1 we'd probably be deluding ourselves too. Our unforced skill level is still well below par even if we had won the games we could have. At least we aren't getting ahead of ourselves like the Hawks and a number of other Vic clubs are.
true , but the more kids we play, the less skill errors we will make cos they are better skilled than the senior mob we have. foley at times stuffs up but he canh be excused cos he is still young and under the pump alot doing it alone in teh midfield
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If we were 4-1 we'd probably be deluding ourselves too. Our unforced skill level is still well below par even if we had won the games we could have. At least we aren't getting ahead of ourselves like the Hawks and a number of other Vic clubs are.
true , but the more kids we play, the less skill errors we will make cos they are better skilled than the senior mob we have. foley at times stuffs up but he canh be excused cos he is still young and under the pump alot doing it alone in teh midfield
Yep. You can at least understand some skill errors under heavy physically pressure. It's the unforced skill errors and obvious bad decision making that is unforgivable because every teammate has ran off their opponent so on the turnover the opposition have free players everywhere.
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Interesting Dunstall today says the Hawks need to add pace to their midfield which is the path we we've gone down since Plough took over. We of course need to add a classy inside ballwinning midfielder or two to help out Foley which the Hawks already have a few of. Both clubs need another key defender and we need another quality ruckman as well.
Hawthorn was in need of midfield pace and a key defender as it tried to build a premiership team. Dunstall said "another pacy midfielder" and a key defender were needed, but said: "I don't think you have to have every position filled to win a premiership … it's pretty hard to tick all those boxes."
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/were-on-right-track-says-dunstall/2007/06/14/1181414462793.html
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Also Roughead had been playing VFL before a late call up last week yet he doesn't cop the bagging Tambo does even though he was picked up earlier ::).
But KP always take longer.......... ::)
Tell that to Jono Brown ::)
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Fairly handy performance by the Hawkers tonight!!!!
They had about 4 top ten draft picks out of their team tonight.
Gee, Wallace must be rapt to be at Richmond :o :o :shh
Hawks are certainly a huge chance for a top 4 spot now
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Fairly handy performance by the Hawkers tonight!!!!
They had about 4 top ten draft picks out of their team tonight.
Gee, Wallace must be rapt to be at Richmond :o :o :shh
Hawks are certainly a huge chance for a top 4 spot now
Why is this fascination with Hawthorn - don't understand it
WGAF
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Fairly handy performance by the Hawkers tonight!!!!
They had about 4 top ten draft picks out of their team tonight.
Gee, Wallace must be rapt to be at Richmond :o :o :shh
Hawks are certainly a huge chance for a top 4 spot now
Why is this fascination with Hawthorn - don't understand it
WGAF
Well the topic is about RichvHawks, dont know why i would be talking about the hawks in this thread.
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Well, I wonder why Lyon would compare us - who cares?
Gonna compare us with the Bombers, Carlton etc
Pointless exercise
Just interested in how the Tiges are going and I think we're on track!
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Well, I wonder why Lyon would compare us - who cares?
Gonna compare us with the Bombers, Carlton etc
Pointless exercise
Just interested in how the Tiges are going and I think we're on track!
Yeah on track for our worst season in over a decade.
Can tell you that we will be making wholesale changes to our list again this year.
Players like JON who are meant to be coming through are struggling big time, and on the verge of player Coburg 2nd's.
I can see why you think we are on the right track.
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Can tell you that we will be making wholesale changes to our list again this year.
Isn't this what RFC people wanted and are getting?
Too lazy to look up the name of players that have been delisted, moved on since Wallace has taken over - but he's doing exactly what we wanted. The fact he has to decimate a team before he can start rebuilding and you expect the results you do is just in lalaville!
Have another look at Essendon's draft picks circa 2001-2 and see how many are still there. Is this just a Wallace phenomenon again, that only he can pick players that can't make it ::)
I haven't given up on JON yet as you have!
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Can tell you that we will be making wholesale changes to our list again this year.
Isn't this what RFC people wanted and are getting?
Too lazy to look up the name of players that have been delisted, moved on since Wallace has taken over - but he's doing exactly what we wanted. The fact he has to decimate a team before he can start rebuilding and you expect the results you do is just in lalaville!
Have another look at Essendon's draft picks circa 2001-2 and see how many are still there. Is this just a Wallace phenomenon again, that only he can pick players that can't make it ::)
I haven't given up on JON yet as you have!
I have, cant play.
Look at the picks that went after him in the draft.
Eg Higgins, Birchall. Varcoe, Swallow, etc.
No wonder tiger supporters are spewing.
Go and watch JON play, he runs to the wrong spots, cant kick and is timid. ::)
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I haven't given up on JON yet as you have!
I have, cant play.
Look at the picks that went after him in the draft.
Eg Higgins, Birchall. Varcoe, Swallow, etc.
No wonder tiger supporters are spewing.
Go and watch JON play, he runs to the wrong spots, cant kick and is timid. ::)
I watch him every bloody week and I reckon......
He can play and will be a player of us.
Struth - hello he didn't have a full pre-season because he was injured. He's been in the system 2 years and has had injuries - not excuses just the away it is.
Yes he is struggling for form at the moment and down on confidence - so are a lot of players.
It happens, it is part and parcel of the game
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I think a few Hawkers and some Richmond supporters who love them are getting a touch ahead of themselves. Where was all this flag talk last week when the Swans strangled them after giving the Hawks a 3 goal start :whistle. Whitnall and Saddington were Carlton's key defenders and O'hAilpin was in the ruck last night with Ackland off the ground. Last night was brilliant footy but they were allowed to since the "competition" was shocking and soft. The Hawks had 35 marks inside 50 and got 20 goals from them :o. If they had Franklin and Williams they would have won by 200 points.
I still don't see why we are compared to the Hawks anyway. The Hawks had only 3 players under 21 last night and their older players are in career best form because they don't have to carry the side since they have a 22-26 year old core now. Joel Smith had his best game in his career last night.
32: Crawford
30: J.Smith, Vandenberg
29: Dixon
27: Croad
26: Jacobs
25: Bateman, Clarke
24: Campbell, Guerra, Mitchell, Osbourne, Taylor, Williams
23: Boyle, C.Brown, Ladson, Sewell
22: Gilham, Hodge
21: Dawson, Lewis, Little, McGlynn, Thurgood, Young, Gibson#
20: Bailey, Franklin, Roughead, McEntee#
19: Birchall, Dowler, Ellis, T.Tuck
18: J.P.Kennedy, Morton, Renouf, Thorp, B.Collins#, Suckling#
Bold - 22 last night.
ps. If you're going to bag Wallace at least bag him for com
ments he actually said. Not what Garry Lyon claims he said :wallywink.
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Difference between us and Hawthorn is simply this. We have gone midfield first, they have gone KPP first.
Deledio, Tambling, Casserley, JON Polo, Meyer, White, King, Howat, Edwards, Collins, Peterson, Clingan,Connors. Then McGuane, Thursfield, Hughes, Graham, Reiwoldt, Pattison, Polak.
This draft we need to 'catch up' to Hawthorn by picking 3 blokes 194-196 and 3 blokes 200cm or more.
I reckon we are not that far behind personally. But if we choose mids over KPP's again :banghead
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Yes do we really need any more midfielders?
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In a way I have allways agreed with pick the best on offer first, no matter who or what they are.
But have to agree now, that we have a dearth of midsize and despartely need some bigger bodies out on the field.
So pick the best KPP first .... :thumbsup
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Hawthorn may have focused on drafting talls in recent years, but that's not why they are winning games now. It's all the guys on their list that are that magical age and experience level that we hear Terry go on about all the time, they have all stepped up and are the ones contributing to them winning. Out of their recent draftees only really Franklin, Lewis and Birchall are making regular contributions.
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Hawthorn may have focused on drafting talls in recent years, but that's not why they are winning games now. It's all the guys on their list that are that magical age and experience level that we hear Terry go on about all the time, they have all stepped up and are the ones contributing to them winning. Out of their recent draftees only really Franklin, Lewis and Birchall are making regular contributions.
:clapping excellent post :thumbsup
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plus i think we may have made mistakes with JON and Meyer as 1st round picks. hope to be proven wrong, but i don't see much there i'm afraid.
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plus i think we may have made mistakes with JON and Meyer as 1st round picks. hope to be proven wrong, but i don't see much there i'm afraid.
JON has a heap of potential but it just seems that he has gone down hill since being drafted
Meyer just won't pull his head out of his arse
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plus i think we may have made mistakes with JON and Meyer as 1st round picks. hope to be proven wrong, but i don't see much there i'm afraid.
JON has a heap of potential but it just seems that he has gone down hill since being drafted
He didn't do a preseason due to shin splints so that's why he hasn't done anything this year. His fitness base would be well done.
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plus i think we may have made mistakes with JON and Meyer as 1st round picks. hope to be proven wrong, but i don't see much there i'm afraid.
JON has a heap of potential but it just seems that he has gone down hill since being drafted
He didn't do a preseason due to shin splints so that's why he hasn't done anything this year. His fitness base would be well done.
but that really doesn't explain a massive decline in skills, decision making and awareness :banghead
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We'll draft big this year. ;) :clapping
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Walls has an article about our 2004 drafting in the Age tomorrow once again comparing us to Hawthorn saying we wrongly took dime a dozen smalls instead of picking up talls like they did.
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Walls has an article about our 2004 drafting in the Age tomorrow once again comparing us to Hawthorn saying we wrongly took dime a dozen smalls instead of picking up talls like they did.
:sleep :sleep
DOne to death Wallsy - build a bridge sir and get over it :banghead
:rollin
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Walls has an article about our 2004 drafting in the Age tomorrow once again comparing us to Hawthorn saying we wrongly took dime a dozen smalls instead of picking up talls like they did.
:sleep :sleep
DOne to death Wallsy - build a bridge sir and get over it :banghead
:rollin
Yep and the stack of Hawk 23-26 year olds drafted pre-Nov 2004 had nothing to do with where they are at now :sleep.
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Must be strapped for something to write about. ::)
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Cambo was on SEN this arvo and they asked him about Richo and whether he's seen anyone else with Richo's athleticism, size and running ability. Cambo goes he saw him on the weekend playing against Richmond - Buddy.
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Cambo was on SEN this arvo and they asked him about Richo and whether he's seen anyone else with Richo's athleticism, size and running ability. Cambo goes he saw him on the weekend playing against Richmond - Buddy.
he's on the money...except Buddy can kick consitently
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Lyons should stick to paying his taxes and stop making stupid remark on team he knows nothing about. He is just a puppet to Eddie and does what he is told by him. He's an absaloute moron. If he is so goos then why hasn't he thrown his hat in the circle. I know, he too scared to make a fool of himself. He and Wall's both should take a walk down the same path. And leave football alone as they both are fools. :wallywink
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Cambo was on SEN this arvo and they asked him about Richo and whether he's seen anyone else with Richo's athleticism, size and running ability. Cambo goes he saw him on the weekend playing against Richmond - Buddy.
he's on the money...except Buddy can kick consitently
Buddy has been off-target this year compared to his first 2 years. 44.35 in 2007. He's done a few "Richo's" too. 1.4 against Freo followed by 1.5 against the Saints.
http://www.finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1526
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Hawk recruiter Chris Pelchen's rating of the Hawks' list. Yeah it's Hawthorn and biased but still a good read IMO.
He started with a few simple stats showing that we (Hawks) are the youngest list. Matches played we average 48.1 (total games of 2116) compared to Fremantle 76.5 (tg 3364). Geelong had an average of 55.8 (tg 2456). He noted that none of the top 5 (Freo, Mel, St k, WB and Ess) played finals.
He then proceeded to explain how the evaluate. Every AFL player on every list are rated as follows:
1 - Elite player (outstanding player of the AFL)
2 - Highly talented (very good player)
3 - Core player (likely to play mostly senior footy)
4A - improving player but not yet at AFL standard eg a well performed 1st yr draftee that hasn't played senior footy
4B - A below std player or declining or aging player.
5 - developing player eg rookie
in 2005 he rated our list as only having 2*1's and 4*2's. He thought we had 8 in the 4B category.
In 2007 mid season he rated our list as follows:
1 2 3 4A 4B 5
3 5 20 4 2 6
He rated Geelong's list as follows
5 6 20 4 1 3
His average talent ratings were as follows (lower the number the better):
Hawks 3.12 vs Geelong 2.87 vs WCE 2.97 vs Carlton 3.38
He rated the Saints to have the most talented list in 05 and 06 and said their window is now closed. He then rated the premiership teams from 05 and 06. He rated them as follows:
1 2 3 4A 4B 5
WCE 06 4 7 10 0 1 0
Syd 05 2 8 12 0 0 0
The averages of premiers since he has been keeping records were as follows:
1 2 3 4A 4B 5
4.6 8.2 8.4 0.6 0.2 0
He then also stated that he thought the Bris 01-04 lists were better than Geelongs but they were able to obtain this through players sacrificing the money for the team.
He then went on and spoke about how poor our kicking efficiency was when he arrived in 05 (76.2% rank 16th). This combined with our low average height and weight meant we needed a list overhaul. In 2007 we were in the top 4.
Our drafting and trading has been to address the kicking efficiency and size of the squad.
Our other issue was our TPP in 05. We were paying 24.9% of our salary to players ranked 4 compared to Brisbane who were paying 8.1% to their 4's. Our average player payment to the 4's was 137000 compared to Brisbanes 72000. In 2007 our 4's are receiving only 5.9% of TPP.
In 2005, he rated only 10 players (Roughead, Ladson, Brown, Mitchell, Franklin, Williams, Croad, Hodge and Lewis - I missed one sorry) as being capable of playing in our next premiership. This list has obviously changed since then.
Key targets of our recruiting where then discussed with a view to fielding a side on mainly 1's, 2's and 3's with the spine being mainly 1's. He has specifically targetted the deficiencies that he identified in 05 and stressed that we are not finished yet. I did get the impression though that this year we will be more selective in targetting specific positions rather than the best available. Did not mention which type we still required (eg crumber).
He concluded by saying that all players recruited must fit the following criteria which brought us back to the culture issue which he started off with.
1 Character - intelligence, leadership, and a team first attitude;
2 kicking - must be rated at least good or better; and
3 competitiveness - must have a high level of determination.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=381518