One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Ramps on October 12, 2007, 01:13:48 PM
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Looks like we have finished with Trade Week at RFC. Seems like no more trades. What have you thought of the effort, give it a grade out of 10.
My view is that it is a fail. A 3/10 maybe a 4/10 at best. Seems we had a crack but couldnt get anyone really good to come to us. We overpaid for McMahon but should be hopeful on Morton. We have failed to address some key needs, those needs were espoused by the club itself. There is no key defender and no ruckman. Im sure they tried but unless theres a miracle in the next 45 minutes its
4/10 from me. Its a failing grade unfortunately.
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3/10
Failed to have the effect we wanted and shouldve played more hardball with Dogs over McMahon.
The Saints have got to be the number 1 performers. Unbelievable.
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5/10 for me.
We've done a big upgrade in terms of footskills.
My big hope was for a ruckman in the trade week and I'm disappointed we didn't get Moran. I'm left with the ugly feeling that we'll end up with another stop-gap reject ruckman as insurance when we could have got the same immediate output from someone like Moran, who also has the potential to go on and be a good player.
In addition we didn't bolster our KPP stocks at all, although there was very little on offer that was worth going after. I'll reserve my judgement until after draft time, if we pick up at least 2 talls then it'll be ok. I'm glad we kept Schulz in the end, I think we need the insurance and would have been far too exposed for depth.
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mcmahon for pick 19 ( first round pick ) is way over the top, these trades below are what you call great trades. what is miller thinking, 2/10 for me. are these two in mcmahon and morton in our best 22 anyway, if so only just and we gave a first and third round selections. what a joke.
St Kilda receives: Steven King and Charlie Gardiner.
Geelong receives: St Kilda's round six selection (currently No.90).
St Kilda receives: Adam Schneider and Sean Dempster.
Sydney Swans receive: St Kilda's round two selection (currently No.26).
Adelaide receives: Brad Moran.
Kangaroos receive: Adelaide's round three selection (currently No.37).
Adelaide receives: Melbourne’s round three selection (currently No.37).
MelbourneFC receives: John Meesen.
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here is food 4 thought
lets assess this weeks trade wek next yr after rnd 11, give the boys at least half a yr . then we can assess
what if jorny and mitch turn out to be dynamite, what would u guys rate our trade week then?
if its true that we keep jay and he kkicks 60 goals, then we have won again
its too early to judge anything
and btw , for all th eppl who think we need a ruckman, think again, in a yr that we had no ruck stock, tuck and foley creamed in the clearances and centre breaks.
we need more running power and midfeilders. mitch will start in our midfeild and maybe joel also that jordy can slip down back
too early to judge this week now, so i guess miller and terry are off the hook for 6 months or so
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I'd give it a 6.5
Pretty happy that we didn't blow our important picks once Judd left. I think Morton will be very good and so will McMahon. As far as any backline deficiecies go, Polak will be even better next season and I also expect big things of McGuane & Thirsty with McMahon buzzing around them and picking up any crumbs.
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here is food 4 thought
lets assess this weeks trade wek next yr after rnd 11, give the boys at least half a yr . then we can assess
what if jorny and mitch turn out to be dynamite, what would u guys rate our trade week then?
if its true that we keep jay and he kkicks 60 goals, then we have won again
its too early to judge anything
and btw , for all th eppl who think we need a ruckman, think again, in a yr that we had no ruck stock, tuck and foley creamed in the clearances and centre breaks.
we need more running power and midfeilders. mitch will start in our midfeild and maybe joel also that jordy can slip down back
too early to judge this week now, so i guess miller and terry are off the hook for 6 months or so
Schulz kicking 60 goals lol
Morton was good at 35 but is a HFF essentially
McMahon was over the odds at 19 and is a HBF/Wing
We didnt get any key midfielders from what I can see and hoping that Sarge kicks 60 goals- and I hope he does- is a very very big ask considering what hes done till now.
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Adelaide receives: Brad Moran.
Kangaroos receive: Adelaide's round three selection (currently No.37).
Moran is the only one on that list that I regret us not getting.
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Given the draft is the main way to improve a clubs list i give it a 3/10..
The fact we got a talented 20 year old for 35 saves it from 1/10...
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we didn't get a ruckman = failed for me
If we can entice adcock into the PSD that will tie me over though :gotigers
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3/10
* We're left with only 2 draft picks in the top 50. Drafting just 2 kids is poor for a club who should be in full rebuild mode.
* McMahon for pick 19 is paying way over the odds for a type of player we already have plenty of.
* Morton for 35 is a decent trade in a weak draft.
* We didn't gain a player that would've filled a need of ours on our list.
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So many weakness's in our side where do you start
1 inside mid
two many flankers
Not enough talls
Not enough ruckmen.
Too many grayhounds.
I think that Wallace just went with what he knows best, skills and pace.
Morton :- Only 20 years old? this is a good pick up for 35, could have easily been pick 19
McMahon :- 24 years old probably a year or 2 older than I would have liked went 19 could have easily been 35
If you don't like the numbers on the picks that these two went for, just swap them around and you may feel better, slightly.
I think Wallace has got more confidence in our backs than we first thought or that we just have so many problems that we just can't cover all of them at once.
We need to find another ruckman if simmonds is going to miss a lot of games next year.
For now I will give it a 5 out of 10. The draft, PSD and natural development of existing group all play a part in the determination of good trading.
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Age trade summary...
RICHMOND
2007: 16th 3 wins, 18 losses, 1 draw
TRADED: nil
RECRUITED: Jordan McMahon, Mitch Morton
NATIONAL DRAFT PICKS: 2, 18, 51, 67, 83, 99, 115
THE WASH-UP:
Carlton aside, the most active participant, and it was clear the Tigers were trying to improve immediately without sacrifi cing much future. They did “only” two deals — McMahon acquired at reasonable cost, Morton picked up very cheap — but had a crack at several players, including Judd, and with the pre-season draft ahead, Greg Miller isn’t finished yet.
WHAT THE CLUB SAYS:
"We've improved our list, adding Jordan McMahon and Mitch Morton two great kicks and young guys. Choice two will be a beauty for us ... Jay Schulz wasn't moved the offer from Port Adelaide was unacceptable ..." GREG MILLER (football director)
http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/trades-in-full/2007/10/12/1191696179568.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
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3/10
* We're left with only 2 draft picks in the top 50. Drafting just 2 kids is poor for a club who should be in full rebuild mode.
* McMahon for pick 19 is paying way over the odds for a type of player we already have plenty of.
* Morton for 35 is a decent trade in a weak draft.
* We didn't gain a player that would've filled a need of ours on our list.
Jackstar and Mighytiges agreeing( thats a worry) :thumbsup
We didnt get a player that we needed.
Mightiges, you are correct.
I give Richmond efforts 2 out 10 and that being generous.
Would of let Schultz go for any pick, he cant get a game on a regular basis. Geelong did the right thing getting rid of players they didint want eg King and Gardiner for one low pick
RFC still doesnt realise we need youth and size at the club.
I still cant get over picking up Jordon McMahon ? Perhaps he has some photos of Plough in the solarium :gobdrop :gobdrop :gobdrop :gobdrop
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Going to give it 5/10
Shattered we didn't address KPP players, but I'm told this draft is only 20 deep, so I think losing those draft picks has evened out with the players we got.
And we have the pre-season draft to get the best out of that lot.
And when I look at other clubs I don't think there was much in the market this year apart from Judd.
I think we're developing quite a good depth of runners, and that excites me.
:gotigers
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beggers cant be chosers
but how can ppl say we didnt get what we need
common think about , we are teh clanger and turnover kings in the afl and every yr cry for a better skilled team
we now have added to very skilled and fast footballers to our list
we cont what we needed and as for kpp, well, we have a fb - thursty, we have a chb - polak we have a chf (plenty of them) we have ff ( see chf) and we have 3 rucks
i think too many supporters freak out too quickly
we need more skill more skill and more onballers
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Generally we require a taller type player.
We dont need anymore"" Jake King"" type or players who are lean.
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the game is changing, its a running skilled base game, height is only needed at the bookends
and we are not that short, we have enough talls.
our lack of height did not cost us games this yr, our lack of skill did
jake king or no jake king, thats not the issue, but jake king was finding the ball and has explosive pace, thats what matters, its the skill thats the issue not the height. its not footy in the 60's 70's 80's .... anymore.
and if height was the issue, then our pick 2 shoukld be gourdis or a kpp, but thats not how it works, u get teh best player possivble and cale morton has much more height than trent and is just as highly skilled so thats why we will get cale imo.
height and stregnth can be overcome with speed and skill, but we are not as short as many think
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btwm peter bell , foley etc are as short as king. dosnt seem to effect the way they played/play
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Generally we require a taller type player.
We dont need anymore"" Jake King"" type or players who are lean.
thats right we dont need anymore small "Jake King" but he has has woken some players up & gives 100%
he stands tall his skills are better than some 10 year players & King may turn out to be a Havery or Bell Type player
l like to see him left down back he can read the game nicely & is far more direct with his play his kicks hit 90% target & he makes few mistakes but every player will make a few in every game there not perfect
His got that nasty streak & is not worried about belting a player & niggling them
if anything this year his the player who stood out the most because of his size
But the Tigers do need the taller players ones who have stuffin skills
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Generally we require a taller type player.
We dont need anymore"" Jake King"" type or players who are lean.
who is we?
you are not a supporter of richmond
you have proven that plenty of times
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You goose!
I have been a paid up supporter for 40 years, FACT!
You are goose!
Mate I am allowed my opinion.
Thats right the RFC is travelling fanastic. aiming for back to back spoons.
Before slagging me,you should look at the clowns running the place. $330K a year for McMahon :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
Wallet will be unemployed!
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
Wallet will be unemployed!
Too easy :lol
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I have been a paid up supporter for 40 years, FACT!
...and that's not bad for a 39 year old ;D
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when Miller said "Pick 2 is gonna be a beauty for us" or something like that, he suspiciously sounded like he knew exactly who he was thinking of.
I suppose it all depends on who Carlton actually take.
It seems we will only judge how good our pick is depending on how the alternative pick3 goes at his new club.
Either way you look at it Kruezer, Cotchin or Morton will be beauty pick for us indeed :thumbsup
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Re Trade week debrief - some people on here (and elsewhere) need to check themselves into therapy, because they need to take a good hard look at themselves after some of the disgraceful and extreme behaviour they displayed this last week.In particular, going ballistic before they even knew the facts and outcomes. They cetainly have a right to their opinion, but they also are in dire need of the psychiatrist's couch.
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Re Trade week debrief - some people on here (and elsewhere) need to check themselves into therapy, because they need to take a good hard look at themselves after some of the disgraceful and extreme behaviour they displayed this last week.In particular, going ballistic before they even knew the facts and outcomes. They cetainly have a right to their opinion, but they also are in dire need of the psychiatrist's couch.
name names
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Re Trade week debrief - some people on here (and elsewhere) need to check themselves into therapy, because they need to take a good hard look at themselves after some of the disgraceful and extreme behaviour they displayed this last week.In particular, going ballistic before they even knew the facts and outcomes. They cetainly have a right to their opinion, but they also are in dire need of the psychiatrist's couch.
name names
xXx needs a shrink, well many think so anyway lol
i name myself ;D
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HAHAHAHAHAHA
Name Names Gordy boy
We're waiting ;D
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xXx needs a shrink, well many think so anyway lol
i name myself ;D
You actually made sense a couple of times this week.
Definite cognitive changes happening and an expensive consultation is recommended.
:cheers
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
lol
As much as this was a touch tongue in cheek it's right. Plough's 5-year contract was to rebuild our list (basically from scratch) for the long-term.
ps. A belated happy birthday Gracie for last week btw :) :thumbsup
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beggers cant be chosers
but how can ppl say we didnt get what we need
common think about , we are teh clanger and turnover kings in the afl and every yr cry for a better skilled team
we now have added to very skilled and fast footballers to our list
we cont what we needed and as for kpp, well, we have a fb - thursty, we have a chb - polak we have a chf (plenty of them) we have ff ( see chf) and we have 3 rucks
i think too many supporters freak out too quickly
we need more skill more skill and more onballers
No disputing X we need skilled players but what happens if Simmo, Foley or Thursty cop an injury next year - we're stuffed just like this year with Simmo doing his ankle preseason. We need skill and depth down the spine and onball where games especially finals are won.
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we only got passed trade week we still got the drafts yet we can get what we need there plenty of talent out there ;D
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A curious stat is we haven't traded away a player since Ottens and Fiora in 2004.
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A curious stat is we haven't traded away a player since Ottens and Fiora in 2004.
maybe cause our skill level is not upto standard
our players are poo & come from bad culture no-one wants them unless there been delisted & clubs know they can get them for free because we are known to just give up easy :rollin
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
lol
As much as this was a touch tongue in cheek it's right. Plough's 5-year contract was to rebuild our list (basically from scratch) for the long-term.
ps. A belated happy birthday Gracie for last week btw :) :thumbsup
Thanks for the birthday wishes MT
Yes the comment was tongue in cheek designed to get a predictable response from Jack - only took 6 minutes :thumbsup
I get a laugh out of Jack's obession that we will sack Wallace next year.
Wallace was given 5 years to rebuild the list from disaster. Lids for example has just complete 3 full years and at 62 games he will now need to deliver - more will be expected of him. In comparison Edwards 16 games, Connors 4 games and Riewoldt 8 games are still 2 years from the same point. Whoever we get at #2 this year will be three years away.
Regardless of results next year I really cant see the sense in changing the long term plan and sacking Wallace. The idea when Wallace was appointed was to give him 5 years and then reassess the list at that point. The decision then is who is the best person to take us forward from 2010.
Wallace has been laughed at for his 2011 comment but this is exactly the plan.
And to help with the rebuilding how would picks #1 and # 2 be in next years draft go??
I don't know the predictions for the strength of next years draft but No 1 and 2 would deliver a quality tall or two one would think.
Does anyone think we will be in the 8 in the next two years regardless of who is coaching?
Look I would rather win games but realistically where will we be next year? 5 to 10 wins. What will that achieve?
Play the kids to get games into them - which will mean not many wins anyway - play Edwards, Connors, Graham, King, Jackson, McGuane, Peterson, Casserly, Riewoldt, #2 and #18. Play Schulz, Hughes, Meyer and JON for extended periods and find out about them for sure
Carlton have used the system so should we.
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back to back spoons is exactly what we need at Richmond. One more year at the bottom. The first 2 picks in next years national draft. We need more talent, we havent got enough of it at Richmond to win a flag.
And if that happens then Wallace will have met the requirements of his contract.. ;D
lol
As much as this was a touch tongue in cheek it's right. Plough's 5-year contract was to rebuild our list (basically from scratch) for the long-term.
ps. A belated happy birthday Gracie for last week btw :) :thumbsup
Thanks for the birthday wishes MT
Yes the comment was tongue in cheek designed to get a predictable response from Jack - only took 6 minutes :thumbsup
I get a laugh out of Jack's obession that we will sack Wallace next year.
Wallace was given 5 years to rebuild the list from disaster. Lids for example has just complete 3 full years and at 62 games he will now need to deliver - more will be expected of him. In comparison Edwards 16 games, Connors 4 games and Riewoldt 8 games are still 2 years from the same point. Whoever we get at #2 this year will be three years away.
Regardless of results next year I really cant see the sense in changing the long term plan and sacking Wallace. The idea when Wallace was appointed was to give him 5 years and then reassess the list at that point. The decision then is who is the best person to take us forward from 2010.
Wallace has been laughed at for his 2011 comment but this is exactly the plan.
And to help with the rebuilding how would picks #1 and # 2 be in next years draft go??
I don't know the predictions for the strength of next years draft but No 1 and 2 would deliver a quality tall or two one would think.
Does anyone think we will be in the 8 in the next two years regardless of who is coaching?
Look I would rather win games but realistically where will we be next year? 5 to 10 wins. What will that achieve?
Play the kids to get games into them - which will mean not many wins anyway - play Edwards, Connors, Graham, King, Jackson, McGuane, Peterson, Casserly, Riewoldt, #2 and #18. Play Schulz, Hughes, Meyer and JON for extended periods and find out about them for sure
Carlton have used the system so should we.
Agree with all that Gracie. You either play kids and accept there'll be short-term pain for long-term gain or you don't. Whether the Club is that patient is another matter under pressure. On Plough, one thing I want from him is to add more pressure at training and be more hands on.
Next year's draft is rated pretty highly already. Some of the kids would've been good enough to be picked up first round this year if they were eligible.
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wallace will not be around in 2011. his dreaming.
as for the draft next year being strong well another spoon will get us the kids but can we handle yet another dismal year.
i certainly cant..
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Agree with all that Gracie. You either play kids and accept there'll be short-term pain for long-term gain or you don't. Whether the Club is that patient is another matter under pressure. On Plough, one thing I want from him is to add more pressure at training and be more hands on.
Next year's draft is rated pretty highly already. Some of the kids would've been good enough to be picked up first round this year if they were eligible.
And exactly where is the pressure coming from ? Impatient success starved supporters?
At the end of 2009 Lids will at best have only played 106 games and all the other kids will have 30 to 100 games. Only then we will have a base to develop into a consistent finals performer.
More pain to come
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l dont know where some of you get the idea it takes 3 years for players to learn how to play to AFL standard football thats pure rubbish it only happens at Richmond
Go around watch other clubs train & then go watch some TAC U18s clubs train & you see them spend more time on the track they do most of there other stuff on the side cause thats what is required if you want to be drafted & they do hard training camps like AFL clubs
these draftees that come in are the crop of scouted Australian talented footballers picked by some of the best knowledged legends of the sport
they are mostly coached by highly regarded Coaches some legends of the game & most decorated players from AFL
They are prepared by clubs at very high standard to the quality of what AFL clubs train its the same training program
some clubs train harder than AFL clubs on the track & most of them train harder than Richmonds AFL team
the only thing going on at Richmond is the club holds back the youngsters
Look at Collingwood draftees for example; Thomas, Goldsack, Pendlebury from the day they arrived there been in the system how long & there standing out it didnot take them 3 years to get crowds excited well anything gets Skunks fans excited they all look up to wacko Joffa
Collingwood had some hard injuries this year yet still was 5 points off a Grand Final
thats what happens when you play names like Buckley when his injured & takes the place of a youngster it cost them dearly & he knows it thats why he was told to move on his career was costing them hard
Wallace has a problem of playing unfit players & even admitted it this year
thats holding the club back of playing youngsters & they start to lose interest at being at Richmond & want to move on
& thats damaging the club because Wallace will play Johnson Tuck Richardson Tambling Newman Brown Simmonds Krakouer l can go on & his not putting fit players on the field & that damages moral within the playing group cause players cant understand why they aint getting game time when they can give a bigger effort & injuries cooldown at halftime & Richmond lose the close games end of story would you not think
But if any of you think it takes time for young men to play bigtime football you should get out more have a look outside your own club
These kids are playing senior football against bigger rougher men at 15 -16 & there playing against the elite footballers of there age groups 17 -18 in carnivals & are dropped back to thier own clubs into seniors sometimes if injured back to the thirds to run out injuries & to dominate to get thier confidence soaring & will chuck them back to the elite level again
They have many coaches at one time cause when your breeding players at a elite level your also breeding elite coaches & trainers & umpires & it goes on & on thats why you see players like Hird & Gary Ablett Jnr give away precious medals & jumpers to people who help make them champions & will listen to them
Any player drafted is fit & ready to play league football from day 1 its the clubs that hold them back & Richmond hold the club back by drafting the weak lambs instead of getting the rams
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l dont know where some of you get the idea it takes 3 years for players to learn how to play to AFL standard football thats pure rubbish it only happens at Richmond
Go around watch other clubs train & then go watch some TAC U18s clubs train & you see them spend more time on the track they do most of there other stuff on the side cause thats what is required if you want to be drafted & they do hard training camps like AFL clubs
these draftees that come in are the crop of scouted Australian talented footballers picked by some of the best knowledged legends of the sport
they are mostly coached by highly regarded Coaches some legends of the game & most decorated players from AFL
They are prepared by clubs at very high standard to the quality of what AFL clubs train its the same training program
some clubs train harder than AFL clubs on the track & most of them train harder than Richmonds AFL team
the only thing going on at Richmond is the club holds back the youngsters
Look at Collingwood draftees for example; Thomas, Goldsack, Pendlebury from the day they arrived there been in the system how long & there standing out it didnot take them 3 years to get crowds excited well anything gets Skunks fans excited they all look up to fooled Joffa
Collingwood had some hard injuries this year yet still was 5 points off a Grand Final
thats what happens when you play names like Buckley when his injured & takes the place of a youngster it cost them dearly & he knows it thats why he was told to move on his career was costing them hard
Wallace has a problem of playing unfit players & even admitted it this year
thats holding the club back of playing youngsters & they start to lose interest at being at Richmond & want to move on
& thats damaging the club because Wallace will play Johnson Tuck Richardson Tambling Newman Brown Simmonds Krakouer l can go on & his not putting fit players on the field & that damages moral within the playing group cause players cant understand why they aint getting game time when they can give a bigger effort & injuries cooldown at halftime & Richmond lose the close games end of story would you not think
But if any of you think it takes time for young men to play bigtime football you should get out more have a look outside your own club
These kids are playing senior football against bigger rougher men at 15 -16 & there playing against the elite footballers of there age groups 17 -18 in carnivals & are dropped back to thier own clubs into seniors sometimes if injured back to the thirds to run out injuries & to dominate to get thier confidence soaring & will chuck them back to the elite level again
They have many coaches at one time cause when your breeding players at a elite level your also breeding elite coaches & trainers & umpires & it goes on & on thats why you see players like Hird & Gary Ablett Jnr give away precious medals & jumpers to people who help make them champions & will listen to them
Any player drafted is fit & ready to play league football from day 1 its the clubs that hold them back & Richmond hold the club back by drafting the weak lambs instead of getting the rams
i agree 100%
3 years to develop only happens at punt Road. i hear that line with talls but only at punt road you hear that with talls and now midfielders too..
come on guys be serious pies perfect example. goldsack, clarke and pendelbury...3 guns. how long have they needed to develop???
i can go on to the hawks as well but i wont cause that just hurts.
wallace needs 5 years, well maybe but frawley had how man years too?? and look where that got us.
im not saying dump in because i believe it doesnt matter who is coaching this list is sub-standard and someone should take the fall from this crap that gets dished up every year. why dont we hire more in development. are they effing stupid or what
There is no way this list will get us into the 8 in the near future.
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3 years to develop only happens at punt Road.
not true.In fact, utter nonsense.
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3 years to develop only happens at punt Road.
not true.In fact, utter nonsense.
only my opinion...u must admit it seems to happen more and more at punt road
we dont spend enough in this area..FACT!!
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3 years to develop only happens at punt Road.
not true.In fact, utter nonsense.
only my opinion...u must admit it seems to happen more and more at punt road
we dont spend enough in this area..FACT!!
Because we cant! FACT!
If you followed the news we have slowly been building up fund and making RFC a place for smarter business than the old shambles.
Once again our income to distribute will rise next year as said a few weeks ago by Gary March.
Money doesnt grow on trees at RFC , last time we went made with money we stuffed up and had a save our skins campaign and then in 2002 we couldnt even afford to draft kids, we had to draft recycled so they only 1 year contracts.
Remember that? Want to get back there again? I sure as hell dont. :( :-X
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l dont know where some of you get the idea it takes 3 years for players to learn how to play to AFL standard football thats pure rubbish it only happens at Richmond
Go around watch other clubs train & then go watch some TAC U18s clubs train & you see them spend more time on the track they do most of there other stuff on the side cause thats what is required if you want to be drafted & they do hard training camps like AFL clubs
these draftees that come in are the crop of scouted Australian talented footballers picked by some of the best knowledged legends of the sport
they are mostly coached by highly regarded Coaches some legends of the game & most decorated players from AFL
They are prepared by clubs at very high standard to the quality of what AFL clubs train its the same training program
some clubs train harder than AFL clubs on the track & most of them train harder than Richmonds AFL team
the only thing going on at Richmond is the club holds back the youngsters
Look at Collingwood draftees for example; Thomas, Goldsack, Pendlebury from the day they arrived there been in the system how long & there standing out it didnot take them 3 years to get crowds excited well anything gets Skunks fans excited they all look up to fooled Joffa
Collingwood had some hard injuries this year yet still was 5 points off a Grand Final
thats what happens when you play names like Buckley when his injured & takes the place of a youngster it cost them dearly & he knows it thats why he was told to move on his career was costing them hard
Wallace has a problem of playing unfit players & even admitted it this year
thats holding the club back of playing youngsters & they start to lose interest at being at Richmond & want to move on
& thats damaging the club because Wallace will play Johnson Tuck Richardson Tambling Newman Brown Simmonds Krakouer l can go on & his not putting fit players on the field & that damages moral within the playing group cause players cant understand why they aint getting game time when they can give a bigger effort & injuries cooldown at halftime & Richmond lose the close games end of story would you not think
But if any of you think it takes time for young men to play bigtime football you should get out more have a look outside your own club
These kids are playing senior football against bigger rougher men at 15 -16 & there playing against the elite footballers of there age groups 17 -18 in carnivals & are dropped back to thier own clubs into seniors sometimes if injured back to the thirds to run out injuries & to dominate to get thier confidence soaring & will chuck them back to the elite level again
They have many coaches at one time cause when your breeding players at a elite level your also breeding elite coaches & trainers & umpires & it goes on & on thats why you see players like Hird & Gary Ablett Jnr give away precious medals & jumpers to people who help make them champions & will listen to them
Any player drafted is fit & ready to play league football from day 1 its the clubs that hold them back & Richmond hold the club back by drafting the weak lambs instead of getting the rams
i agree 100%
3 years to develop only happens at punt Road. i hear that line with talls but only at punt road you hear that with talls and now midfielders too..
come on guys be serious pies perfect example. goldsack, clarke and pendelbury...3 guns. how long have they needed to develop???
i can go on to the hawks as well but i wont cause that just hurts.
wallace needs 5 years, well maybe but frawley had how man years too?? and look where that got us.
im not saying dump in because i believe it doesnt matter who is coaching this list is sub-standard and someone should take the fall from this crap that gets dished up every year. why dont we hire more in development. are they effing stupid or what
There is no way this list will get us into the 8 in the near future.
Goldsack was drafted as a 19-year old. He turned 20 in May. Hardly a typical 17/18-year old draftee. Thomas and Pendlebury were top 5 draft picks. They are also playing in a team with a solid senior core. 17 of the Pies best 22 are 23 or over. Young talls like Ried, Brown, Dawes played at Willy all year.
Same with the Hawks. Their finals sides also had 17 of their 22 aged 23 or over. They've got one of the youngest lists but their best 22 isn't young. Renouf, Dowler, Thorp, etc hardly played a game and played at Box Hill. That's why they are rated as such a threat. Because these youngsters will only start to come into a already top 6 side next year and beyond. Losing Vandenberg, Smith and Dixon won't effect their solid senior 23-27 y.o. core to any great detail.
Most weeks we had half our side 21 or younger which was the 2nd youngest 22. Brisbane was the only side who played more Under 22 players than we did most weeks.
I'm not saying this to justify or excuse us coming last and we definitely need to generate and pump more money into recruiting (lowest spending club) and development that's for sure. However there's a lot of crap said about clubs by the media and their supporters about how young they are.
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Goldsack was drafted as a 19-year old. He turned 20 in May. Hardly a typical 17/18-year old draftee. Thomas and Pendlebury were top 5 draft picks. They are also playing in a team with a solid senior core. 17 of the Pies best 22 are 23 or over. Young talls like Ried, Brown, Dawes played at Willy all year.
Same with the Hawks. Their finals sides also had 17 of their 22 aged 23 or over. They've got one of the youngest lists but their best 22 isn't young. Renouf, Dowler, Hislop, etc hardly played a game and played at Box Hill. That's why they are rated as such a threat. Because these youngsters will only start to come into a already top 6 side next year and beyond. Losing Vandenberg, Smith and Dixon won't effect their solid senior 23-27 y.o. core to any great detail.
Most weeks we had half our side 21 or younger which was the 2nd youngest 22. Brisbane was the only side who played more Under 22 players than we did most weeks.
I'm not saying this to justify or excuse us coming last and we definitely need to generate and pump more money into recruiting (lowest spending club) and development that's for sure. However there's a lot of crap said about clubs by the media and their supporters about how young they are.
didnot take him 3 years to make a name for himself (Goldsack)
age has got nothing to do with it everyone goes back to age
l seen young sides smash hot premiership favorites
and all them sides you talk about went in as a fit sides
Richmond go in with paper sides get smashed cause there players cant give 100% & the coach is a total effwit
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Goldsack was drafted as a 19-year old. He turned 20 in May. Hardly a typical 17/18-year old draftee. Thomas and Pendlebury were top 5 draft picks. They are also playing in a team with a solid senior core. 17 of the Pies best 22 are 23 or over. Young talls like Ried, Brown, Dawes played at Willy all year.
Same with the Hawks. Their finals sides also had 17 of their 22 aged 23 or over. They've got one of the youngest lists but their best 22 isn't young. Renouf, Dowler, Hislop, etc hardly played a game and played at Box Hill. That's why they are rated as such a threat. Because these youngsters will only start to come into a already top 6 side next year and beyond. Losing Vandenberg, Smith and Dixon won't effect their solid senior 23-27 y.o. core to any great detail.
Most weeks we had half our side 21 or younger which was the 2nd youngest 22. Brisbane was the only side who played more Under 22 players than we did most weeks.
I'm not saying this to justify or excuse us coming last and we definitely need to generate and pump more money into recruiting (lowest spending club) and development that's for sure. However there's a lot of crap said about clubs by the media and their supporters about how young they are.
didnot take him 3 years to make a name for himself (Goldsack)
age has got nothing to do with it everyone goes back to age
l seen young sides smash hot premiership favorites
and all them sides you talk about went in as a fit sides
Richmond go in with paper sides get smashed cause there players cant give 100% & the coach is a total effwit
Goldsack can't win a game off his own boot yet.
We can't expect that our #2 this year will walk into our side and be a match winner in 2008 or in 2009. Three years before he will have the strength in body and mind to be a match winner we need. Lids has had his three years is at 62 games there are no more excuses for him - time to deliver.
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Goldsack was drafted as a 19-year old. He turned 20 in May. Hardly a typical 17/18-year old draftee. Thomas and Pendlebury were top 5 draft picks. They are also playing in a team with a solid senior core. 17 of the Pies best 22 are 23 or over. Young talls like Ried, Brown, Dawes played at Willy all year.
Same with the Hawks. Their finals sides also had 17 of their 22 aged 23 or over. They've got one of the youngest lists but their best 22 isn't young. Renouf, Dowler, Hislop, etc hardly played a game and played at Box Hill. That's why they are rated as such a threat. Because these youngsters will only start to come into a already top 6 side next year and beyond. Losing Vandenberg, Smith and Dixon won't effect their solid senior 23-27 y.o. core to any great detail.
Most weeks we had half our side 21 or younger which was the 2nd youngest 22. Brisbane was the only side who played more Under 22 players than we did most weeks.
I'm not saying this to justify or excuse us coming last and we definitely need to generate and pump more money into recruiting (lowest spending club) and development that's for sure. However there's a lot of crap said about clubs by the media and their supporters about how young they are.
didnot take him 3 years to make a name for himself (Goldsack)
age has got nothing to do with it everyone goes back to age
l seen young sides smash hot premiership favorites
and all them sides you talk about went in as a fit sides
Richmond go in with paper sides get smashed cause there players cant give 100% & the coach is a total effwit
Disagree on age/experience. Geelong showed that against Port in the GF. It was men against boys. Geelong had 17 of their 22 premiership players by 2004 when they finally made the finals. Most of that core were recruited from 2001 or earlier. Same goes for the Eagles.
It's more than individual development too. It's also team development. Bringing a group of kids through together so they jell as a unit over time. Geelong's team skills were so far above anyone else this year it wasn't funny.
This is something our younger players need to learn. For instance a run and carry gameplan doesn't mean 18 blokes running and carrying the footy as far as they can go individually like it's NFL or NRL. How many times did Rainesy do this and stuff up :P. It's run and carry as a team. Moving the ball forward quickly as a team, as a unit. Everyone understanding and knowing what each of their teammates will do. Offering options and supporting each other in numbers as a team. Doing the 1%ers - tackling, shepharding and blocking - as a team. No matter how quick a player is he can't outrun a kick or attacking handpass. You've got to work as a team to break down opposition defences and get the ball forward quickly to score.
Bartel, Corey, Ling, etc aren't superquick but they annihlated sides this year because they finally woke up how footy is meant to be played. Last year they were a slow chip-chip sideways rabble yet had the same 21 of the 22 who dominated 2007. In 2005 they choked against the Swans with the same 21. What was the difference? It certainly wasn't personnel. They finally all got superfit, matured at the same time and became the best team. Sam Newman is an idiot most of the time but he was right about Geelong all along.
When you have that strong team structure then young players find it easier to slot into the side. They can just focus on the job they need to do without needing to worry about carrying the side to victory. Without needing to worry about too much attention from the opposition trying to blunt their influence. Once again that comes down to the strength and quality of your senior core. Sure there are exceptions (Shane Edwards showed something this year btw) but generally most footballers and football teams take time to develop. In the AFL with the draft it can take even 7-8 years if the quality senior core structure isn't there and you need to build a new core basically from scratch. No guarantees either that the coach who starts and oversees this process will still be around to see the end of it. Mark Thompson is a rarity and even he only just survived last year.
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laughable
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laughable
Why?
We have not a single draftee left from the 1999 or earlier drafts. Richo and Joel were Father-Sons (both fell into our lap) and Tivs was a promoted-rookie. We also don't have any draftees left from the 2001 superdraft ::) and only one (Schulz) from the 2002 draft and he was only a whisker away from being offloaded. These drafts would now have made up our 5, 6 and 8+ year players on our list. In other words our senior core. That's right just 1 player from 33 selections and trades still on our list from that period. Now that's laughable!
No point bagging our current 18-20 year olds because morons off-field at our club paid/pay no respect to the draft and recruiting both in time and money. We have been and are the lowest spending club on recruiting in the AFL and it shows. Finally now that we have some financial and boardroom stability we are trying to address it by putting more $$$ into recruiting but that can't instantly fix the damage already done from the period above.
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laughable
Why?
We have not a single draftee left from the 1999 or earlier drafts. Richo and Joel were Father-Sons (both fell into our lap) and Tivs was a promoted-rookie. We also don't have any draftees left from the 2001 superdraft ::) and only one (Schulz) from the 2002 draft and he was only a whisker away from being offloaded. These drafts would now have made up our 5, 6 and 8+ year players on our list. In other words our senior core. That's right just 1 player from 33 selections and trades still on our list from that period. Now that's laughable!
No point bagging our current 18-20 year olds because morons off-field at our club paid/pay no respect to the draft and recruiting both in time and money. We have been and are the lowest spending club on recruiting in the AFL and it shows. Finally now that we have some financial and boardroom stability we are trying to address it by putting more $$$ into recruiting but that can't instantly fix the damage already done from the period above.
:clapping :clapping :clapping Now that is spot on the money.
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laughable
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My response to some of this is that even though RFC has probably had the funds over the years, for whatever reason, the Club wouldn’t spend money on the footy department back then and it just seemed content to rely on the ability of its coach to get the best out of players. That’s the way it seemed to me at least.
Needless to say none of our players ever seemed to get out of the second stage of their development, and so it continues.
Even though the funds have probably been there over the past decade, it wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t have any idea what other resources were made available at other clubs and that this lack at RFC was holding the players and the club back.
Each club and coach does it their own way, and as long as the coach has others around him to compensate for their areas of weakness (for want of a better expression) then it should all be fine. Somehow, I don’t think it’s ever been fine at RFC.
Even though David Rodan seemed to have the commitment and work ethic while he was at Richmond, they still couldn’t get the sort of form out of him that Port was able to this year, so their solution was to let him go. Perhaps they let the wrong person go. You have to wonder sometimes.
Now we get told that the club is in a position to add more resources to the football department. But are they just putting money into this area just so it looks as though they’re doing something, or are they genuinely doing something to drag the club into the AFL? As always, we just have to wait and see and hope they know what they are doing.
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laughable
Try and debate the point like an adult.
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laughable
Try and debate the point like an adult.
laughable :lol
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laughable
MT: 1
TM: 0
;)
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My response to some of this is that even though RFC has probably had the funds over the years, for whatever reason, the Club wouldn’t spend money on the footy department back then and it just seemed content to rely on the ability of its coach to get the best out of players. That’s the way it seemed to me at least.
To me the club was still frightened in the late 90's of the bad old SOS days even though it had got itself back on its feet and back in the black. So spending was kept to a bare minimum at the detriment of resources needed to compete as an AFL club in the 21st century.
Now we get told that the club is in a position to add more resources to the football department. But are they just putting money into this area just so it looks as though they’re doing something, or are they genuinely doing something to drag the club into the AFL? As always, we just have to wait and see and hope they know what they are doing.
True. The proof will be in the results to come on-field. The redevelopment is a badly needed step in the right direction to get our player facilities up to the level of the wealthy clubs.
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Even though David Rodan seemed to have the commitment and work ethic while he was at Richmond, they still couldn’t get the sort of form out of him that Port was able to this year, so their solution was to let him go. Perhaps they let the wrong person go. You have to wonder sometimes.
we just have to wait and see and hope they know what they are doing.
your damm right there. krak was the guy who we ahould've let go.
he has been a big disapointment that guy and a complete waste of time in my book.
family problems yeah maybe he does but i dont get paid 250k-300k to produce what he has this year and even last
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laughable
Try and debate the point like an adult.
that is laughable :lol
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laughable
Try and debate the point like an adult.
that is laughable :lol
Yeah you're right. We'll probably never get that from you. :rollin
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l explained it before
age got nothing to do with being successful
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l explained it before
age got nothing to do with being successful
If that was true clubs would delist most of their players each year and draft 18 year olds as they are a far cheaper option.
Jake King was overlooked when he was 18 years old yet at 23 after going via the cape to work his way onto an AFL list he plays virtually every game. Maturity and experience (as well as talent and hard work) have everything to do with success in the AFL.
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Totally agree MT. Everything you have said makes perfect sense. :clapping
If you look at the Bombers now..That was us a few years ago. Poor recruiting decisions and an ageing list. At least we have seen the light and realised we need a mixture of talented youth and experience and it will take time to get this balanced. Once we do get it right we need to ensure that smart recruiting continues to feed our club in an almost factory line precision from rookie to veteran. It will be players like Lids and Foley that the kids at our club will be looking up to now. This is where it has to start.
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Too true tiga.
It will be players like Lids and Foley that the kids at our club will be looking up to now. This is where it has to start.
We all may have to get our head around the idea that the repair job may take longer than we would like it to whether Plough is around or not in the future with Lids, Foley and co. becoming the core that the rest of the side is built around. We must keep bringing more and more kids through via the draft each and every year no matter where we finish.
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If you look at the Bombers now..That was us a few years ago. Poor recruiting decisions and an ageing list.
Here's the Essendon 2007 list out of curiosity (red means retired, traded or delisted since the end of the season). They had 11 players 28+ y.o. making up half their best 22. 5 have gone since the end of the season including their B&F and best player of a generation. There's one massive hole in the middle-age bracket which will be exposed fully now.
34: Hird
32: Camporeale, Fletcher
30: Michael
29: J.Johnson, M.Johnson, Lloyd, Lucas
28: Bolton, Heffernan, Peverill
----------------------------------
27: -
26: Hille, McVeigh, Ramanauskus#
25: -
24: Cole, Lovett, Lovett-Murray, McPhee, Welsh
23: Davey
----------------------------------
22: Dyson, Johns, Laycock, Watson, Winderlich
21: Bradley, Lee, Nash, Slattery, Stanton, Chartres#
20: Dempsey, Lonergan, Monfries, McKinnon#
19: Gumbleton, Hislop, Houli, Jetta, Neagle, Ryder, Hocking#
18: Reimers, Dick#
Oldies: 11 (6)
Mids: 9 (8 )
Youth: 24 (22)
Rucks (>198cm): 5 (3) - Bradley, Fletcher, Hille, Laycock, McKinnon#
Big Talls (194-198cm): 6 (5) - Bolton, Gumbleton, Johns, Lee, Ryder, Chartres#
Talls (190-193cm): 7 (7) - Lloyd, Lovett-Murray, Lucas, Michael, Neagle, Watson, Dick#
Tall Mids (186-189cm): 9 (6) - Cole, Heffernan, Hird, Hislop, McPhee, Nash, Welsh, Winderlich, Hocking#
Mids (180-185cm): 15 (13) - Camporeale, Dempsey, Dyson, Houli,J.Johnson, M.Johnson, Lonergan, Lovett, McVeigh, Monfries, Peverill, Reimers, Slattery, Stanton, Ramanauskus#
Smalls (<179cm): 2 (2) - Davey, Jetta
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The Pies were also mentioned in this thread. Their list isn't as strong as Geelong with a gap in the 22-23 age range but 16 of their 23+ aged players are in their best 22 and they've formed the core of their side. The Pies also have got a good balance of talls vs smalls.
35: Buckley
33: Wakelin
32: Burns
31: Clement
30: Rocca
29: Licuria, Prestigiacomo
28: O'Bree
----------------------------------
27: Holland, Lockyer
26: Davis, Johnson
25: Bryan, Fraser, Medhurst, R.Shaw
24: Didak, Lonie, Maxwell, Richards
23: Swan
----------------------------------
22: -
21: Cox, Davies, H.Shaw
20: Cloke, Egan, Goldsack, Iles, O'Brien, Rusling, Thomas, Toovey, Wood, Nicholls#
19: Anthony, Cook, Dick, Dawes, Pendlebury, Stanley, Clarke#, Macaffer#, Wellingham#
18: Brown, Reid
Oldies: 8 (4)
Mids: 13 (12)
Youth: 23 (22)
Rucks (>198cm): 2 (2) - Fraser, Richards, Wood
Big Talls (194-198cm): 6 (6) Brown, Bryan, Cloke, Dawes, Reid, Rocca
Talls (190-193cm): 9 (7) Anthony, Clement, Cox, Goldsack, Maxwell, Pendlebury, Prestigiacomo, Rusling, Wakelin
Tall Mids (186-189cm): 8 (6) Buckley, Cook, Davies, Egan, Lonie, O'Brien, Stanley, Toovey
Mids (180-185cm): 14 (13) Burns, Dick, Didak, Holland, Iles, Johnson, O'Bree, H.Shaw, R.Shaw, Swan, Thomas, Clarke#, Macaffer#, Wellingham#
Smalls (<179cm): 5 (4) Davis, Licuria, Lockyer, Medhurst, Nicholls#
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Too true tiga.
It will be players like Lids and Foley that the kids at our club will be looking up to now. This is where it has to start.
We all may have to get our head around the idea that the repair job may take longer than we would like it to whether Plough is around or not in the future with Lids, Foley and co. becoming the core that the rest of the side is built around. We must keep bringing more and more kids through via the draft each and every year no matter where we finish.
agreed. its all up to lids, foley, kings because our senior core aint gonna win u a flag thats for sure.
i cant wait till they put sugar out of misery and take the captaincy off him and give it to foley or someone.
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The Pies were also mentioned in this thread. Their list isn't as strong as Geelong with a gap in the 22-23 age range but 16 of their 23+ aged players are in their best 22 and they've formed the core of their side. The Pies also have got a good balance of talls vs smalls.
35: Buckley
33: Wakelin
32: Burns
31: Clement
30: Rocca
29: Licuria, Prestigiacomo
28: O'Bree
----------------------------------
27: Holland, Lockyer
26: Davis, Johnson
25: Bryan, Fraser, Medhurst, R.Shaw
24: Didak, Lonie, Maxwell, Richards
23: Swan
----------------------------------
22: -
21: Cox, Davies, H.Shaw
20: Cloke, Egan, Goldsack, Iles, O'Brien, Rusling, Thomas, Toovey, Wood, Nicholls#
19: Anthony, Cook, Dick, Dawes, Pendlebury, Stanley, Clarke#, Macaffer#, Wellingham#
18: Brown, Reid
Oldies: 8 (4)
Mids: 13 (12)
Youth: 23 (22)
Rucks (>198cm): 2 (2) - Fraser, Richards, Wood
Big Talls (194-198cm): 6 (6) Brown, Bryan, Cloke, Dawes, Reid, Rocca
Talls (190-193cm): 9 (7) Anthony, Clement, Cox, Goldsack, Maxwell, Pendlebury, Prestigiacomo, Rusling, Wakelin
Tall Mids (186-189cm): 8 (6) Buckley, Cook, Davies, Egan, Lonie, O'Brien, Stanley, Toovey
Mids (180-185cm): 14 (13) Burns, Dick, Didak, Holland, Iles, Johnson, O'Bree, H.Shaw, R.Shaw, Swan, Thomas, Clarke#, Macaffer#, Wellingham#
Smalls (<179cm): 5 (4) Davis, Licuria, Lockyer, Medhurst, Nicholls#
& it was the younger players who got Collingwood to the finals not the top 22 players
l know l go to most of there games they were a broken side this year & malthouse dumped players like Lica & Holland something Wallace dont do is dump named players
so you see a young side as l was pointing out just lost to Geelong by 5 pts just goes to show what l was talking about
so again its shows Richmond are nowhere near Collingwood even that we were 1 all this year & should have been 2-0 to us
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Disagree, it was only 4 or 5 of the under 23's for the Pies that made any meaningful contribution. It was still the Burns's, Rocca's, Lockyer's, Maxwell's etc that got them there. I would put money on us having plenty more games played by our under 23's than theirs. I think the Pies will go backwards next season because of the amount of experience they have lost.
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& it was the younger players who got Collingwood to the finals not the top 22 players
l know l go to most of there games they were a broken side this year & malthouse dumped players like Lica & Holland something Wallace dont do is dump named players
so you see a young side as l was pointing out just lost to Geelong by 5 pts just goes to show what l was talking about
so again its shows Richmond are nowhere near Collingwood even that we were 1 all this year & should have been 2-0 to us
11 U23 Tigers to just 6 U23 Magpies in each's respective 22 most games played this year.
Collingwood
25 - Burns, Lockyer, Swan, Maxwell, Cloke, H.Shaw, Thomas
24 - O'Bree, Davis
23 - Rocca, O'Brien, Pendlebury
20 - Fraser
19 - Johnson
18 - Didak
17 - Medhurst, Wakelin, Goldsack
16 - Richards
14 - R.Shaw, Presitgiacomo
13 - Clement
------------------- 22
12 - Bryan, Clarke
11 - Licuria
10 - Toovey
8 - Cox
7 - Holland
6 - Dick
5 - Rusling, Buckley
4 - Lonie
3 - Iles, Cook, Reid
2 - Stanley
1 - Egan, Nicholls
Richmond
22 - J.Bowden, Foley, Tuck, Johnson, Raines, Polak, Pettifer, Newman, Richo
20 - Tambling
19 - Deledio, Tivendale, King
18 - Pattison
16 - Edwards
15 - Howat, Jackson, Thursfield
14 - McGuane
13 - Hyde
12 - Schulz
11 - Brown
----------------- 22
10 - Simmonds
9 - Krakouer
8 - Polo, Riewoldt
7 - Moore, White, Hughes
5 - Gaspar
4 - Connors
3 - Oakley-Nicholls, Meyer, P.Bowden
2 - Graham, Kingsley
1 - Hartigan