One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on January 14, 2008, 02:03:02 PM
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
I completely agree with Robbo.
Winning wooden spoons in his 3rd and 4th year was not part of Wallace's pitch.
Heat is on IMO. Terry is paid to get results.
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Robbo is starting fires already and we now have the choice of two things, we can either breath life into them by continuing to dramatise doom and gloom which this arshole is counting on or we can douse them out by making nothing of them. He actually hasn't told us anything that we probably haven't already quietly considered, he's playing to the strings of the gullable.
It's idiots like him that light the fires and it's the gullable that turn the spark into the inferno.
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This is the first week back for most of the main journos. They're obviously starting early on Plough. Bringing March into it as well is a further tactic to fan the flames as you say RR.
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
I completely agree with Robbo.
Winning wooden spoons in his 3rd and 4th year was not part of Wallace's pitch.
Heat is on IMO. Terry is paid to get results.
Correct!
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So.... what's the benchmark?
Results? What does that mean exactly? No more big losses? Okay - but a this stage I'd rather a 6 goal loss with a bunch of kids than a 2 goal loss with a bunch of seasoned players.
Win-loss ratio? A 15-7 season would be great but the same principle applies - 7-15 isn't so bad if you've just pumped 22 games into a group of young fellers.
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So.... what's the benchmark?
Results? What does that mean exactly? No more big losses? Okay - but a this stage I'd rather a 6 goal loss with a bunch of kids than a 2 goal loss with a bunch of seasoned players.
Win-loss ratio? A 15-7 season would be great but the same principle applies - 7-15 isn't so bad if you've just pumped 22 games into a group of young fellers.
Arghhh logic... Sadly Robbo wouldn't get it
Mark Robinson is a fool - his columns over the years have proved that. What did he say about his beloved Bummers I wonder ??? Knowing Robbo absolutely nothing would be my guess :wallywink
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Mark Robinson is a fool - his columns over the years have proved that. What did he say about his beloved Bummers I wonder ??? Knowing Robbo absolutely nothing would be my guess :wallywink
He didn't say much ;). Just that he couldn't see them making the finals IIRC. Ox had them 15th.
Just on his multiple 100 point loss theory. Last year we had one 100 point loss (make that a 157 point loss :P ) and we finished last. The year before we had four 100 point losses yet finished 9th. So 2006 was worse than 2007 according to Robbo's theory ???.
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Ox had them 15th.
Let me guess, we were 16th according to Ox?
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Ox had them 15th.
Let me guess, we were 16th according to Ox?
Aren't we everyone's :-\. Ox tipped us for the wooden spoon last year too.
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Mark Robinson is a fool - his columns over the years have proved that. What did he say about his beloved Bummers I wonder ??? Knowing Robbo absolutely nothing would be my guess :wallywink
He didn't say much ;). Just that he couldn't see them making the finals IIRC. Ox had them 15th.
Just on his multiple 100 point loss theory. Last year we had one 100 point loss (make that a 157 point loss :P ) and we finished last. The year before we had four 100 point losses yet finished 9th. So 2006 was worse than 2007 according to Robbo's theory ???.
he is just trying to justify his job. tosser.
in any case we shouldnt be involved in any 100 point loss, its so damaging to our club.
i put this down to the players mentality. when push comes to shove they go hiding. 50 point deficit turns into a 100 point loss. its gotta stop and they must learn to be tougher
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So.... what's the benchmark?
Results? What does that mean exactly? No more big losses? Okay - but a this stage I'd rather a 6 goal loss with a bunch of kids than a 2 goal loss with a bunch of seasoned players.
Win-loss ratio? A 15-7 season would be great but the same principle applies - 7-15 isn't so bad if you've just pumped 22 games into a group of young fellers.
if the season is a write off before the mid season break like in 07 then i would think questions will be asked and the heat turned on by the media
but we as fans will just be hoping that some of the kids show genuine improvement and tw can get the best out of them, if he can then i would think the board will give him a bit more time
will the rfc self destruct like always or will we fight back for once
its going to be an interesting season to say the least
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I thought Journalists were "morally obliged" to report the facts and the truth.
Sure we are a struggling side but it is derelict of that Essendon fool to put up a smokescreen when his own footy club have a sacrificial lamb as a coach and spine that would make a chiropractor cringe. Its a pity sensationalist journalism has become the norm nowadays, yet if indeed the blow torch is on Terry after a 1-6 start (which indeed it should be) and the ferals start lining up along the players race similar to when Spud was coaching who will be blamed for the ensuing riot that ensues? Journos like Robbo or the fans who have been starved for 26 years? What if we are 6-1 and look every bit a finals bound side will that moron take credit? When you are in a precarious position on field as we are you just have to hope that the team ignores outside influences like that and have a steely resolve to prove the buggers wrong.
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
Someone has already replied to this thread re: we only had 1 loss last season by more than 100 points. Here are some more interesting stats:
3 games were lost by more than 100 points - 2 by Carlton, 1 by us. Collingwood and West Coast both lost games by more than 90 points.
We only lost 3 games by 10 goals or more. Carlton lost 7, Bulldogs lost 4, Melbourne lost 3, 12 teams in total lost at least 1 game by 10 goals or more.
Makes a mockery of this type of unresearched bullsh*t 'reporting'. I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face - we are going to surprise a lot of people this year with our sudden and 'unannounced' improvement. The only ones who will see it are the ones today who are looking through the trees and seeing a stack of wood. We are not nearly as bad as the doomsayers would have you believe.
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Anyone coach can get games into kids. Not just any coach can get results.
Wallace is not doing a grand job of rebuilding the list re the youngsters we pick up. That's the recruiting department's responsibility. Terry is however responsible for the likes of Knobel, P Bowden, Kingsley, McMahon etc.
Realistically we should be showing dramatic improvement under Wallace in his 4th season. In fact when he was signed I would have thought finals in year 4 was a real possibility and far from an unrealistic expectation.
Five years is no guarantee if it starts to again go seriously pear shaped.
Yet another coach can try and get the most out of our list.
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3 games were lost by more than 100 points - 2 by Carlton, 1 by us.
Don't forget Port Pathetic in the big one and the Kangaroos in the Qualifying final.
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North's year was very much like ours in 2001. Our two hidings came in the finals as well.
When you look back at last year, as crap as we were, 10 of our losses were by 25 points or less and in most of those we were in the game for 3 1/2 quarters. It was Geelong, Port, Hawthorn and Sydney that smashed us. I'm not saying we shouldn't have finished last but 4 goals is nothing in modern footy. Just shows most AFL sides are mediocre each year with the top few the actual quality sides. We were just worse than mediocre though :-\.
Round 6 Geelong 157
Round 18 Geelong 70
Round 17 Sydney 66
Round 16 Port Adelaide 55
Round 15 Hawthorn 53
Round 7 Port Adelaide 40
Round 4 W.Bulldogs 32
Round 20 West Coast 31
Round 3 Collingwood 25
Round 14 Kangaroos 25
Round 5 West Coast 23
Round 11 Fremantle 21
Round 1 Carlton 17
Round 13 St Kilda 17
Round 2 Sydney 16
Round 22 St Kilda 10
Round 8 Adelaide 9
Round 9 Essendon 8
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thats all good and well and i agree with on the fact that we had some good honourable losses but what i want to find out is why when we lose we lose bad.
Its an ongoing theing at punt road. Are we weak at Punt Road?
Why is it when the chips are down i see so many with the heads buried into the ground.
We need to be tougher and if you arent tough in the mind and body then in my opinion get fu....
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Daniel, we role over and die.
Basically give up, especially under Wallace
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
Someone has already replied to this thread re: we only had 1 loss last season by more than 100 points. Here are some more interesting stats:
3 games were lost by more than 100 points - 2 by Carlton, 1 by us. Collingwood and West Coast both lost games by more than 90 points.
We only lost 3 games by 10 goals or more. Carlton lost 7, Bulldogs lost 4, Melbourne lost 3, 12 teams in total lost at least 1 game by 10 goals or more.
Makes a mockery of this type of unresearched bullsh*t 'reporting'. I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face - we are going to surprise a lot of people this year with our sudden and 'unannounced' improvement. The only ones who will see it are the ones today who are looking through the trees and seeing a stack of wood. We are not nearly as bad as the doomsayers would have you believe.
trust me mate its not just the doomsayers :rollin
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Mark Robinson on SEN just said it would be negligent of Gary March not to sack Wallace if 2007 is repeated. Not just in terms of wins/losses but in terms of performance. Something would be wrong if we see multiple 100 point losses again.
Someone has already replied to this thread re: we only had 1 loss last season by more than 100 points. Here are some more interesting stats:
3 games were lost by more than 100 points - 2 by Carlton, 1 by us. Collingwood and West Coast both lost games by more than 90 points.
We only lost 3 games by 10 goals or more. Carlton lost 7, Bulldogs lost 4, Melbourne lost 3, 12 teams in total lost at least 1 game by 10 goals or more.
Makes a mockery of this type of unresearched bullsh*t 'reporting'. I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face - we are going to surprise a lot of people this year with our sudden and 'unannounced' improvement. The only ones who will see it are the ones today who are looking through the trees and seeing a stack of wood. We are not nearly as bad as the doomsayers would have you believe.
Its Terry who""cant see the forest through the trees""
Thats the problem at punt road
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Daniel, we role over and die.
Basically give up, especially under Wallace
We have been seen as mentally frail not only under Wallace but under previous tenures as Frawleys Gieschens and Walls. Hence the fact we have a very very poor record against top 8 teams in that time and that is who you need to beat in order to crack the top 8.
Statistics since 1996 results against teams who finished in top 8
Robert Walls 1996 4 from 13. Two wins were against Hawthorn who fell in at our expence.
Robert Walls / Jeff Gieschen 1997 . Overall 5 from 12 with Gieschen 2 from 2.
Ovreall 7 from 23 30.43%
Jeff Gieschen 1998 5 from 11
Jeff Gieschen 1999 4 from 13
Overall 11 from 24 including 1997 results when he took over 45.83%
Danny Frawley 2000 5 from 12
Danny Frawley 2001 5 from 12 including 1 win from 3 finals
An easier draw saw us only play 9 times against top 8 opposition in the 22 rounds.b
Danny Frawley 2002 4 from 12
Danny Frawley 2003 2 from 12
Danny Frawley 2004 1 from 12
Overall 19 from 60 31.66%
Terry Wallace 2005 2 from 11
Terry Wallace 2006 2 from 12
Terry Wallace 2007 1 from 13
Overall 5 from 36 13.88%
Overall since 1996 42 from 143 29.37%
Pretty damning statistic and one not applicable only to the TW tenure when rebuilding as he was last year. Gieschen and Frawley topped up and although Giesch was forced to jump after poor performances he is the only coach that statisitcs will look kindly on as he had an overall coaching record of over 50%. Pretty tragic that the now coaches of umpiring :lol has a better coaching record than some of the clubs legends and other misfits and Messiahs as well as the falling away of the list in the last couple of years in Frawleys tenure.
Plough's results are similar to Frawleys circa 2003/04. Difference is list is on the way up now Spud had it when was derailing the train and then walking away from the train wreck. Hopefully the fruits of Spud's labours ::) are now behind us.
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thats all good and well and i agree with on the fact that we had some good honourable losses but what i want to find out is why when we lose we lose bad.
Probably the same reason as most of the other clubs. You're letting your blind hatred of everything Wallace cloud reality. We had more "good honourable losses" than most teams. We were one of the most reliable, consistent and honest teams last season. We lost MOST of our games because of a major physical deficiency (age) that is nigh on impossible to overcome in the short term (unless you subscribe to the 'one small forward from a premiership' theory. In almost every single game we showed that on ability we are more than competitive and in many cases, already better, than our opposition. The one area we had no chance of competing was boy's bodies v men's, hence the totally predictable results. ONLY time can fix that - NOTHING else.
Its an ongoing theing at punt road. Are we weak at Punt Road?
Why is it when the chips are down i see so many with the heads buried into the ground.
I've gotta say - from your incessant bagging of Wallace and the football department I think the one with his head buried deepest is the one who can't see things for what they are.
We need to be tougher and if you arent tough in the mind and body then in my opinion get fu....
And you believe that this comes to 18-22 year old kids naturally and immediately do you? Its amazing how differently you see things when you grow up and learn about life.
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Its Terry who""cant see the forest through the trees""
Thats the problem at punt road
Sad as this is going to sound to you Jackie, there is no problem at Punt Rd. For the 2nd time in 25 years we have a coach and a football department with a sound plan, the 1st time that its actually going according to script. For the 1st time in 25 years we have a board and club that is 100% supportive, both financially and emotionally. For the umpteenth time in 25 years we have a supporter fringe that craves instant success and believes that the coach is the be all and end all of this success. The club copped a fairly decent hammering from many quarters last season but the most silent and notable absentee of any of this was from within the club itself. This from a club that has a strong history of demanding instant gratification, a passage of right to be a top 4 power club, and a tendency to eat it's own at the first sign of failure. Where do you go from here? What do you do when the bleeding obvious (to those with open eyes) happens and we are successful over the next few years? Who will be your target then? Or will become one of those loud-mouths that proclaim "I pride myself in sticking to the club through the tough times so I deserve this success"? Your Wallace bashing is getting soooo boring.
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trust me mate its not just the doomsayers :rollin
Trust me T2 - yes it is.
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Its Terry who""cant see the forest through the trees""
Thats the problem at punt road
Sad as this is going to sound to you Jackie, there is no problem at Punt Rd. For the 2nd time in 25 years we have a coach and a football department with a sound plan, the 1st time that its actually going according to script. For the 1st time in 25 years we have a board and club that is 100% supportive, both financially and emotionally. For the umpteenth time in 25 years we have a supporter fringe that craves instant success and believes that the coach is the be all and end all of this success. The club copped a fairly decent hammering from many quarters last season but the most silent and notable absentee of any of this was from within the club itself. This from a club that has a strong history of demanding instant gratification, a passage of right to be a top 4 power club, and a tendency to eat it's own at the first sign of failure. Where do you go from here? What do you do when the bleeding obvious (to those with open eyes) happens and we are successful over the next few years? Who will be your target then? Or will become one of those loud-mouths that proclaim "I pride myself in sticking to the club through the tough times so I deserve this success"? Your Wallace bashing is getting soooo boring.
i think u r the one is becoming boring pal. some things u say i believe, such as we have a stable club financially and the board is very sound and i am grateful for that.
however, until i see some hard tackling, chasing and a mentally stronger attitude im affraid to say ur comments are wrong.
Dont tell me you have to be in the game for 4-5 years to put on size and stop being a boy playing against a man cause i can reel off 20 players who are 2-3 players who are real tough competitors.
Our development at Punt Road did not change from what i saw and unless this area gets better we will fail.
Im not sure if its our development coaches, maybe they are the ones who need to go.
We can rack up a great profit thats all good and well then why the hell cant we spend that money on development and the footy department.
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however, until i see some hard tackling, chasing and a mentally stronger attitude im affraid to say ur comments are wrong.
crap. we have a young list and it aint gonna happen overnight.
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Your Wallace bashing is getting soooo boring.
He's a wooden spoon winning coach FFS!
You seem to suggest he's immune from any criticism whatsover.
Your last few posts are as if you are spaced out on heavy pain killers.
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yeah it is crap. like primus, harry miller and co are all skinny 2nd year players arent they.
come on mate open ur eyes. i even spoke to Gm one day and asked him about Will's body and when we can expect to see him bulk up.
he said within the next 5 years he should bulk up. i mean what the hell 5 years.
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expect more of this, im sure terry is fully aware of where his position sits... :shh
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expect more of this, im sure terry is fully aware of where his position sits... :shh
As he should be.
For those that say it's all going to plan, I would bet my left one that last season did not go anywhere near to plan.
We are getting some extremely talented young players to Richmond at the moment. Some by default(coming last helps) and thanks to FJ but iS Terry Wallace the guy to lead us to the Holy Grail??
After all that's what this is all about isn't it?!
I seriously have my doubts.
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Your Wallace bashing is getting soooo boring.
He's a wooden spoon winning coach FFS!
You seem to suggest he's immune from any criticism whatsover.
Your last few posts are as if you are spaced out on heavy pain killers.
No pain here, all good actually. In no way am I suggesting Wallace should be immune from criticism. I believe he should get all the criticism that his performance as coach deserves. It's just that at the moment I have no problems with his performance thus far and I have a lot of confidence going forward. I'm happy to be the first to put my hand up if he fails to deliver on what he promised and on what the club hired him to do. So far, he is right on track and the club appear extremely happy. I fear it might be the fringe supporter element I mentioned that are either on, or in need of, the pain killers. Patience is a virtue and foresight is essential for those who are really interested in the long term success and stability of our club. Its a long overdue journey that we have finally embarked on and I am enjoying the ride already.
And if you think I can't or won't be critical of the club then you certainly weren't a part of the forums I posted to when Casey was President!
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Your Wallace bashing is getting soooo boring.
He's a wooden spoon winning coach FFS!
You seem to suggest he's immune from any criticism whatsover.
Your last few posts are as if you are spaced out on heavy pain killers.
No pain here, all good actually. In no way am I suggesting Wallace should be immune from criticism. I believe he should get all the criticism that his performance as coach deserves. It's just that at the moment I have no problems with his performance thus far and I have a lot of confidence going forward. I'm happy to be the first to put my hand up if he fails to deliver on what he promised and on what the club hired him to do. So far, he is right on track and the club appear extremely happy. I fear it might be the fringe supporter element I mentioned that are either on, or in need of, the pain killers. Patience is a virtue and foresight is essential for those who are really interested in the long term success and stability of our club. Its a long overdue journey that we have finally embarked on and I am enjoying the ride already.
And if you think I can't or won't be critical of the club then you certainly weren't a part of the forums I posted to when Casey was President!
i just hope u werent referring to me as a fringe supporter pal because i bet ill find u in the stands bagging richo at some stage this year.
Im a member and have been for 12 years. I am very patient dont worry about that and every single richmond supporter is patient as well cause we have been put through the rigours for the last 20 years.
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trust me mate its not just the doomsayers :rollin
Trust me T2 - yes it is.
then i guess someone needs to open their eyes
there are plenty who dont rate us and its not just from the ferals
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I'm happy to be the first to put my hand up if he fails to deliver on what he promised and on what the club hired him to do.
Terry's pitch was that we didn't have to bottom out to rebuild.
The goal posts have now shifted and we are basically into a full rebuild in the wake of last season's debacle which was effectively over by round 6.
The club did not hire Wallace on the premise of winning wooden spoons in his third season and sure as heckfire not in his 4th.
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The club did not hire Wallace on the premise of winning wooden spoons in his third season and sure as heckfire not in his 4th.
Agree, however the list faces significant structural issues after years of neglect from Walls, Geisch & Spud (2 first round draft picks in 10 years).
The medium term performance of the player group requires more than a cultural change which maybe impacted in the short term by a new coach.
Surely, RFC is more professional now with Steve Wright pulling some major strings and solidifying Richmond's long term commercial base.
It just needs to be reflected at the footy end.
To quote Douglas Adams "Don't Panic" .... yet
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Agree, however the list faces significant structural issues after years of neglect from Walls, Geisch & Spud (2 first round draft picks in 10 years).
To quote Douglas Adams "Don't Panic" .... yet
I'm not.
Despite my negative angle I still have great hope that Terry can turn us around.
However the Honeymoon is over..
this year cannot be blamed on the likes of 'Walls, Geisch & Spud'.
Wallace is accountable for our performances in '08.
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we did not bottom out , we just had a really stuffed up yr. a whole lot of factors influenced the results. we just were not good enough in the end with our depth . bottoming out suggests tanking and we didnt tank, we were just plain poo
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Dont tell me you have to be in the game for 4-5 years to put on size and stop being a boy playing against a man cause i can reel off 20 players who are 2-3 players who are real tough competitors.
Please do. I'll be very interested in looking at your list.
Our development at Punt Road did not change from what i saw and unless this area gets better we will fail.
Im not sure if its our development coaches, maybe they are the ones who need to go.
How long do you consider the development coaches (in effect, most of the football department) should get to completely rebuild one of the worst lists in the history of the VFL/AFL and get the replacement kids up and running and playing competitive footy? Remember, it's taken them 5 years just to turn the list over.
We can rack up a great profit thats all good and well then why the hell cant we spend that money on development and the footy department.
And that's exactly what we have done over the past 4 years. Not a bad plan either when you think about it - getting the club back on it's feet financially first before increasing the spending in the football department (almost all of which initially was just to play catch up for the 30+ years of neglect and mismanagement).
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i just hope u werent referring to me as a fringe supporter pal because i bet ill find u in the stands bagging richo at some stage this year.
Im a member and have been for 12 years. I am very patient dont worry about that and every single richmond supporter is patient as well cause we have been put through the rigours for the last 20 years.
No, I most certainly wasn't. You misunderstood the intent of my meaning and that's probably my bad choice of words. By fringe supporters I meant small group of vocal supporters who tend to complain about everything being wrong because success isn't instantly forthcoming with every new change we make.
As for bagging Richo, I haven't done that for quite a few years now. I used to be one of his sternest critics for his attitude and on-field demeanour and I was all for getting rid of him after the disgraceful performance he put on that night to David Rodan. To his credit (and dare I utter it - since Miller & Wallace have taken over) his on-field manner has completely turned around and he can now rightly be classed as one of the respected leaders at our club. If had received the guidance and benefit of the current football department in his earlier days then he would be the current club captain but that is another story.
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bbbbbbDaniel, we role over and die.
Basically give up, especially under Wallace
We have been seen as mentally frail not only under Wallace but under previous tenures as Frawleys Gieschens and Walls. Hence the fact we have a very very poor record against top 8 teams in that time and that is who you need to beat in order to crack the top 8.
Statistics since 1996 results against teams who finished in top 8
Overall since 1996 42 from 143 29.37%
Pretty damning statistic and one not applicable only to the TW tenure when rebuilding as he was last year.
Those stats aren't surprising but sheesh :P.
The last game in 98 against Melbourne probably tops the mentally fragility stakes although even in 3 of our past 6 finals in 95, 2001 we were on the end of hidings too where the game was over by halfway through the second quarter.
Agree it's mostly above the shoulders in terms of a lack of fight but we've fallen away in the second half of many seasons over the past decade due to a lack of class and us relying on too few to carry the rest of side. That's fine early on in the season when everyone is fresh and injury-free but eventually something has got to give as those few players start to tire and suffer injuries from the workload. It's always been the way that the top sides hit their straps in the second half of any year while the mediocre ones fall away. That's why now we are bringing through lots of youngsters so that when they eventually reach their prime age we'll no longer just be relying on just a few good players.