One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Ramps on April 04, 2009, 05:58:42 PM
-
With the impending retirement in the next 2 or 3 years of Richo, Simmonds, Johnson, Bowden, Cousins ... we will need to rebuild the side, for mine the core of the next side will come primarily from those I have listed below, particularly those players that are in bold.
2. Will Thursfield
3. Brett Deledio
4. Andrew Raines
8. Jack Riewoldt
9. Trent Cotchin
14. Dean Polo
17. Chris Newman
18. Alex Rance
19. Dean Putt
20. Mitch Morton
23. Daniel Jackson
27. Tom Hislop
29. Tyrone Vickery
30. Richard Tambling
31. Adam Thomson
35. Matthew White
37. Jayden Post
39. Daniel Connors
40. Kelvin Moore
41. Nathan Foley
42. Andrew Collins
Its not that we dont have any players, Its just that IMHO we will need to go for more youth, and to rebuild the side.
-
Moore Thursfeild Polo
Newman Rance Connors
Tambling Deledio Thomson
White Reiwoldt Hislop
Morton Post Collins
Vickery Cotchin Foley
-
Pattison is an intersting one
-
You've said this in the past Ramps and I agree with you - you need two phases of rebuilding if you are starting from scratch like we were. Right now we have a young core to build around which we didn't have in 2004 but there are still a couple of gaps and there's still more time needed before a few of those above are ready to take over. This upcoming draft is very important to us and we need to be smart when GC17 comes in and trade for one of their concession picks.
I would also add Browne to our future core. He's only 18 but he's got something there to end up an AFL ruckman. He's just not ready yet.
Any reason why Thursty is on that list while McGuane isn't? I wouldn't say Thursty is anymore guaranteed a future compare to Luke based on current form. Rance will keep his spot in the side ahead of Thursty.
-
You've said this in the past Ramps and I agree with you - you need two phases of rebuilding if you are starting from scratch like we were. Right now we have a young core to build around which we didn't have in 2004 but there are still a couple of gaps and there's still more time needed before a few of those above are ready to take over. This upcoming draft is very important to us and we need to be smart when GC17 comes in and trade for one of their concession picks.
I would also add Browne to our future core. He's only 18 but he's got something there to end up an AFL ruckman. He's just not ready yet.
Any reason why Thursty is on that list while McGuane isn't? I wouldn't say Thursty is anymore guaranteed a future compare to Luke based on current form. Rance will keep his spot in the side ahead of Thursty.
Ive always thought that Thursty was a better player than McGuane. McGuane I also see as a player we could swap with Gold Coast to get a pick.
-
Ive always thought that Thursty was a better player than McGuane. McGuane I also see as a player we could swap with Gold Coast to get a pick.
Fair enough Ramps. I would trade Rainesy (a small) to GC17 if it came down to a choice out of the two. The media too seem to rate Rainesy more than McGuane so we may get more for him (age + experience) and smalls are easier to replace.
-
I agree with your assessment overall but for a few exceptions.
McGuane I think would have to be our No 2 backman and is still young. He may be traded to the GC but he is an important part of our defensive future (even though his punch of the ball behind the goal coast us a goal today... :banghead)
You have Thomson in there but we have barely seen him play. The same with Putt, Collins and Post. I would agree with you with Vickery but he too could be put in this category as well.
Connors has shown glimpses of brilliance but needs to become more consistent, remain injury free and become more team orientated before he is assured of a place in our future team.
It was great to see players such as Hislop, Polo and Rance shown some physicality and fight today. We need more of it!
Stripes
-
I decided to give the young blokes the benefit of the doubt, they may in time become key figures in our team or they may fall by the wayside. We will have to wait and see.
-
With the impending retirement in the next 2 or 3 years of Richo, Simmonds, Johnson, Bowden, Cousins ... we will need to rebuild the side, for mine the core of the next side will come primarily from those I have listed below, particularly those players that are in bold.
2. Will Thursfield
Don't agree that Thursfield will be part of the core Ramps. I made the comment during the off-season that unless he gets more strings to his bow then he will struggle for a regular game as he gets older and I haven't seen anything yet to make me change my mind. He is a one-trick pony with the capacity to spoil and not much else. Moore and McGuane are both way ahead of him and after watching Rance today he is going to pass him very quickly too. Throw in Post and I think Thursfield's spot is under severe threat.
-
With the impending retirement in the next 2 or 3 years of Richo, Simmonds, Johnson, Bowden, Cousins ... we will need to rebuild the side, for mine the core of the next side will come primarily from those I have listed below, particularly those players that are in bold.
2. Will Thursfield
Don't agree that Thursfield will be part of the core Ramps. I made the comment during the off-season that unless he gets more strings to his bow then he will struggle for a regular game as he gets older and I haven't seen anything yet to make me change my mind. He is a one-trick pony with the capacity to spoil and not much else. Moore and McGuane are both way ahead of him and after watching Rance today he is going to pass him very quickly too. Throw in Post and I think Thursfield's spot is under severe threat.
Thursty is definitely struggling at the minute which has created an opening in our backline for Rance. Not sure if Thursty is carrying some injury as he's still playing but he was training on and off during the preseason.
-
Would you be prepared to put Will Thursfield for trade at years end? And if so what could we get for him?
-
Would you be prepared to put Will Thursfield for trade at years end? And if so what could we get for him?
everyone is tradeable, but as you suggest, at what price?
-
Would you be prepared to put Will Thursfield for trade at years end? And if so what could we get for him?
everyone is tradeable
Deledio & Cotchin are not tradeable
-
Would you be prepared to put Will Thursfield for trade at years end? And if so what could we get for him?
everyone is tradeable
Deledio & Cotchin are not tradeable
for the right price they are
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.Now after one bad game where he was hardly Robin Caruso he is now on the outer.
I predict "musical chairs" this year with Thursfield,McGuane,Moore and Rance this year.
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.Now after one bad game where he was hardly Robin Caruso he is now on the outer.
:lol
It's tough talk on tiger forums, and lucky the club doesn't have to walk it.
-
Would you be prepared to put Will Thursfield for trade at years end? And if so what could we get for him?
everyone is tradeable
Deledio & Cotchin are not tradeable
for the right price they are
If Lids and Cotch are traded then we might as well board up and shut down Punt Rd for good :help.
-
so if carlton say said we will give you gibbs and kruezer for deledio , i say no problem at all
i know it will never ever happen, but for a price everyone is tradeable, as long as we win in the outcome
no one player should be made feel untouchable, thats when they get lazy and complacent
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.
Not from me Mat. I don't have enough confidence that he has sufficient skills and talent for AFL - I hope I'm wrong but my opinion is well documented.
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.
Not from me Mat. I don't have enough confidence that he has sufficient skills and talent for AFL - I hope I'm wrong but my opinion is well documented.
that says a lot.
Will will be a good player dont worry about that just needs muscle.
streets ahead of that Mcguane
-
So if the club "HYPOTHETICALLY" put up Willy T. at years end, what do you guys reckon we could get for him in terms of draft pick or player swap. Just interested to see all your views on this, coz Ive thought that Thursty was pretty safe list wise.
-
So if the club "HYPOTHETICALLY" put up Willy T. at years end, what do you guys reckon we could get for him in terms of draft pick or player swap. Just interested to see all your views on this, coz Ive thought that Thursty was pretty safe list wise.
In your wildest dreams you 'might' get a 3rd round for him - more likely 4-5th.
-
So if the club "HYPOTHETICALLY" put up Willy T. at years end, what do you guys reckon we could get for him in terms of draft pick or player swap. Just interested to see all your views on this, coz Ive thought that Thursty was pretty safe list wise.
In your wildest dreams you 'might' get a 3rd round for him - more likely 4-5th.
Hes not that bad surely!
-
So if the club "HYPOTHETICALLY" put up Willy T. at years end, what do you guys reckon we could get for him in terms of draft pick or player swap. Just interested to see all your views on this, coz Ive thought that Thursty was pretty safe list wise.
In your wildest dreams you 'might' get a 3rd round for him - more likely 4-5th.
Hes not that bad surely!
It's what the draft picks will be worth over the next couple of years. Anyone taking Thursfield is still taking 'potential' - his record so far is only average at best but he does present with possible upside and given the higher premium of draft picks in 09/10/11 it will be really stretching the bounds to think he will command anything like a 2-3rd round pick. And I believe that many others see Thursfield as I do - a player in need of serious development if he is to take the next step to good AFL player.
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.
Not from me Mat. I don't have enough confidence that he has sufficient skills and talent for AFL - I hope I'm wrong but my opinion is well documented.
that says a lot.
Will will be a good player dont worry about that just needs muscle.
streets ahead of that Mcguane
Not that I normally waste my time replying to your tripe, for the sake of other interested posters here are some career high stats as a comparison between your "streets ahead" man and McGuane:
Thursfield McGuane
Age 22 21
Games 41 34
Disposals 18 22
Kicks 10 13
Marks 7 9
Handballs 13 11
Tackles 5 8
Cont Marks 2 3
1st Poss 2 2
Clearances 1 2
Cont Poss 4 3
Unc Poss 19 24
Long Kicks 6 7
1%ers 11 14
Bounces 4 8
Errors 8 12
I used career high stats instead of totals or averages to demonstrate potential because of the small number of games each has played.
McGuane leads Thursfield in all but 3 areas - handballs (-2), contested possessions (-1) and errors (-4). Seems to me the stats say that McGuane - at a year younger and less games - is already better performed (and thus has more upside) than Thursfield.
-
GAME SET MATCH to Smokey....atleast there is competition for spots in that backline.Now if we can only find someone who can keep a dominant small forward quiet.
-
Who played on Chapman last week, from what I seen he had been carving it up until our game.
I hardly noticed him during the game and was just curious if anyone noticed who was playing on him for the main part of the game.
-
A few weeks ago we had an "Untouchable" list on this forum of which Thursfield was a very common choice.
Not from me Mat. I don't have enough confidence that he has sufficient skills and talent for AFL - I hope I'm wrong but my opinion is well documented.
that says a lot.
Will will be a good player dont worry about that just needs muscle.
streets ahead of that Mcguane
Not that I normally waste my time replying to your tripe, for the sake of other interested posters here are some career high stats as a comparison between your "streets ahead" man and McGuane:
Thursfield McGuane
Age 22 21
Games 41 34
Disposals 18 22
Kicks 10 13
Marks 7 9
Handballs 13 11
Tackles 5 8
Cont Marks 2 3
1st Poss 2 2
Clearances 1 2
Cont Poss 4 3
Unc Poss 19 24
Long Kicks 6 7
1%ers 11 14
Bounces 4 8
Errors 8 12
I used career high stats instead of totals or averages to demonstrate potential because of the small number of games each has played.
McGuane leads Thursfield in all but 3 areas - handballs (-2), contested possessions (-1) and errors (-4). Seems to me the stats say that McGuane - at a year younger and less games - is already better performed (and thus has more upside) than Thursfield.
thanks you just provided me with the information that proves i am right.
More errors probably is the most important stat especially in defence.
Anyone see mcguane against the blues. Anyone see mcguane last week. Rubbish.
All you lot were singing a different tune about Will last year, now all of a sudden he is a dud.
-
thanks you just provided me with the information that proves i am right.
More errors probably is the most important stat especially in defence.
Anyone see mcguane against the blues. Anyone see mcguane last week. Rubbish.
All you lot were singing a different tune about Will last year, now all of a sudden he is a dud.
One stat taken in isolation is meaningless, thats why I included them all. Only a fool or someone with no point would isolate or take notice of one stat. If you want to look at their respective averages for the above then Thursfield is in front in handballs (5.7 to 5.1) and errors (2.2 to 3.9). In every other facet of the game McGuane shows a better return than Thursfield - especially the critical ones like tackles, contested possessions, contested marks and 1%ers). Only choosing one stat to try and prove your point would be like you telling your mates "I had sex" in an effort to prove to them your point that you are a great lover. Not incorrect and can't be refuted using that one stat. If you added the other items of interest though - "it was with another man" and "I paid for it" and "he was related to me", then the whole picture changes and the stat becomes misleading and incorrect to the main point. So it is with your point about Thursfield.
-
thanks you just provided me with the information that proves i am right.
More errors probably is the most important stat especially in defence.
Anyone see mcguane against the blues. Anyone see mcguane last week. Rubbish.
All you lot were singing a different tune about Will last year, now all of a sudden he is a dud.
One stat taken in isolation is meaningless, thats why I included them all. Only a fool or someone with no point would isolate or take notice of one stat. If you want to look at their respective averages for the above then Thursfield is in front in handballs (5.7 to 5.1) and errors (2.2 to 3.9). In every other facet of the game McGuane shows a better return than Thursfield - especially the critical ones like tackles, contested possessions, contested marks and 1%ers). Only choosing one stat to try and prove your point would be like you telling your mates "I had sex" in an effort to prove to them your point that you are a great lover. Not incorrect and can't be refuted using that one stat. If you added the other items of interest though - "it was with another man" and "I paid for it" and "he was related to me", then the whole picture changes and the stat becomes misleading and incorrect to the main point. So it is with your point about Thursfield.
im happy to let Will do the talking.
he will better than Luke but i cant expect someone of your intelligence to understand that
-
So if the club "HYPOTHETICALLY" put up Willy T. at years end, what do you guys reckon we could get for him in terms of draft pick or player swap. Just interested to see all your views on this, coz Ive thought that Thursty was pretty safe list wise.
In your wildest dreams you 'might' get a 3rd round for him - more likely 4-5th.
Hes not that bad surely!
With it being the last draft before GC17 and West Sydney hog the next three years worth of kids it's going to be hard to get a high pick in return for anyone. I think Thursty would be worth a 2nd rounder in an open market if he was put on the trade table and there was no new teams coming in. In saying that I don't think he will be traded because he's going through a rough patch of form of lack of it and if he was traded you'd be better off trading him to GC17 who will pay up higher in terms of a pick than any of the existing clubs.
-
I'm not sure why we would trade either of them - 21 and 22 yo, our club has been addicted to trading for much of the Miller era - this continued last year and in my view, should now be wound right back.
Our problem is the chase for the quick fix, when there are no quick fixes.
Let these young, key position players develop until such time as we feel their potential has been exhausted or the coaches ability to develop them has been exhausted.
When Terry Wallace joined the club, he announced that our club would be about "developing our own" and paraded 5 top 20 draft picks in the 2004 draft.
While that group are not looking nearly as good as the Hawks trio of the same draft, he had the right idea.
He just needs to follow through on the development piece.
The talent is there, it is both the level and speed of development which has to be questioned.
This is why one club names 4 debutants and the other clubs name 1 in the 1st round.
-
I'm not sure why we would trade either of them - 21 and 22 yo, our club has been addicted to trading for much of the Miller era - this continued last year and in my view, should now be wound right back.
Our problem is the chase for the quick fix, when there are no quick fixes.
Let these young, key position players develop until such time as we feel their potential has been exhausted or the coaches ability to develop them has been exhausted.
When Terry Wallace joined the club, he announced that our club would be about "developing our own" and paraded 5 top 20 draft picks in the 2004 draft.
While that group are not looking nearly as good as the Hawks trio of the same draft, he had the right idea.
He just needs to follow through on the development piece.
The talent is there, it is both the level and speed of development which has to be questioned.
This is why one club names 4 debutants and the other clubs name 1 in the 1st round.
I agree Y&B about us needing to develop and give time to our own cubs especially our talls.
Although I wouldn't trade Thursty either at this stage, the problem with our trading in the past though is we have given up picks for opposition rejects rather than what other clubs do which is trade players who you don't think are/will be up to it for more picks. We picked up only 2 kids last year and 3 the year before ignoring rookies. That's why we have had only two AFL debutants in Rance and rookie Browne. We really need to go for 5 or 6 kids in this year's draft to carry us through the upcoming draft dark ages. Also GC17 will be poaching uncontracted players next year. We really need to be smart about our list management and if we are forced to let someone go we let who we want to go go. We don't want another Maxfield situation :scream.