One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on February 19, 2019, 09:11:02 PM
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Why 6-6-6 rule could force Tigers into a radical shake-up
AFL.com.au
Marc McGowan
Feb 19, 2019
IS THIS the set of numbers that might convince Richmond to risk sending prized recruit Tom Lynch into the ruck?
Statistics from the 2019 AFL Prospectus reveal no team will need to adapt more to the compulsory 6-6-6 centre-bounce set-up than the Tigers, who used that formation just 3.4 per cent of the time last year.
Richmond's 2017 Grand Final opponent, Adelaide (4.4 per cent), was the only other club below 10 per cent.
Brisbane (67.9 per cent), Collingwood (64.9), Gold Coast (64.9), Western Bulldogs (64.8 ) and Essendon (60.5) led the way in using 6-6-6, with the Pies the sole finalist among them.
Lynch serving as a centre-bounce back-up would be the Tigers waving the white flag on the Shaun Grigg experiment, accepting the undersized route won't work under the new conditions.
Another Richmond option, according to a rival AFL club's opposition scout, would be for the 2017 premier to hand Toby Nankervis a monopoly on the centre bounce.
"If the knee Lynch's got the (injury) issue with is his jumping knee, you'd have to be wary of that," the opposition analyst told AFL.com.au.
"But you'd have to consider it, because Grigg in there with no protection off the back of the square is a recipe for disaster.
"Can you imagine Max Gawn against Shaun Grigg? That's going in Melbourne's forward 50 straight away. They were worried enough to put two off the back of the square last year.
"They could keep Nankervis out there for as long as possible.
"So Nankervis rucks, then goes forward, and Grigg replaces him as their around-the-ground ruckman – you'd do that – but that's still a big workload for Grigg and Nankervis."
'The Nank' already contested the fourth-most centre bounces last year (557), behind only Brodie Grundy (625), Gawn (612) and Todd Goldstein (563).
However, Nankervis ranked only 14th in the competition for average hitouts among players with double-digit appearances – and his value takes a slight hit with the rule changes, too.
There are even repercussions for Brownlow medallist Dustin Martin, whose tendency to 'cheat' forward, knowing he had protection the other way, may not be a worthwhile risk now.
Champion Data analysed 2800 centre bounces from last season and found that four formations accounted for 88 per cent of set-ups from that sample, with 6-6-6 the most common (42 per cent).
The other three popular formations, in order of defenders-midfielders-forwards, were 7-6-5 (39 per cent), 6-7-5 (4 per cent) and 8-6-4 (3 per cent).
How did your club set up at centre bounces in 2018?
CLUB 8-6-4 7-6-5 6-7-5 6-6-6 OTHER
Adelaide 29.2% 48.7% 0.7% 4.4% 17.0%
Brisbane 0.3% 7.6% 3.3% 67.9% 20.9%
Carlton 2.4% 30.7% 5.1% 43.9% 17.8%
Collingwood 0.6% 27.6% 2.1% 64.9% 4.9%
Essendon 0.3% 27.0% 3.6% 60.5% 8.7%
Fremantle 1.1% 48.4% 9.0% 25.8% 15.8%
Geelong 0.7% 33.1% 1.8% 53.7% 10.7%
Gold Coast 0.0% 20.1% 2.8% 64.9% 12.2%
GWS Giants 6.3% 51.1% 2.8% 36.4% 3.4%
Hawthorn 1.4% 38.3% 5.9% 43.9% 10.5%
Melbourne 1.3% 62.5% 1.6% 24.3% 10.2%
North Melbourne 1.6% 60.6% 1.6% 10.6% 25.7%
Port Adelaide 3.4% 48.5% 5.1% 30.8% 12.2%
Richmond 11.5% 71.1% 1.3% 3.4% 12.8%
St Kilda 1.9% 35.6% 7.7% 48.7% 6.1%
Sydney 1.1% 49.3% 4.3% 35.5% 9.8%
West Coast 0.8% 30.8% 10.5% 53.2% 4.6%
Western Bulldogs 0.9% 20.5% 0.9% 64.8% 12.8%
Competition ave. 3.1% 38.5% 4.1% 42.1% 12.2%
Statistics courtesy 2019 AFL Prospectus
The Tigers, on the other hand, preferred the 7-6-5 approach at a whopping 71 per cent of centre bounces – the highest percentage in any formation – while devoting 11.5 per cent to 8-6-4.
They weren't an offensive juggernaut in the latter set-up from pure clearances (scoring just 13 per cent of the time), but that doesn't tell the full story.
Richmond won more than half those centre clearances, which typically involved two players stampeding off the back of the square, and did not concede a single point in Champion Data's sample.
Kane Lambert was the Tigers' go-to man for that role, along with Shane Edwards, Daniel Rioli and Jason Castagna.
The Tigers also become a turnover-forcing menace in this mode, punishing opposition giveaways with a score 18 per cent of the time – triple the competition average.
This tactic won't be available for coach Damien Hardwick this year.
"It will have an impact on them and they will have to adjust some of their game strategies, but they still have (Trent) Cotchin, Martin, Edwards and those guys at the centre bounce," the scout said.
"It's probably not quite as big a change as putting Tom Lynch in, but that's still two big changes – two things that impact the way they play.
"They can't roll out what they did in 2017 and expect to win a flag in 2019, because their list is a little different and their depth is completely gone, to get Tom Lynch in."
Anyone interested in buying a copy of this year's AFL Prospectus can go to shop.championdata.com.au or find it at selected newsagents
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-19/why-666-rule-could-force-tigers-into-a-radical-shakeup
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5. Starting positions
The rule which has been most discussed will have the least impact on the game. Put simply, there are only 30-odd centre bounces in a game, and once the ball is bounced starting positions mean nothing.
There will be times where a team would like to stack its defensive 50; a bottom four team getting trounced by a premiership contender, or a team being up by less than a goal with 30 seconds to play.
The former could be considered collateral damage – games which were previously decided by eight goals might look more like ten or 12 goal losses because the weaker team can’t park the bus at centre bounces. The latter could be considered the regulation of uncertainty and chaos, and most will be fine with that.
You can see why this one will have a muted impact. It will certainly impact those teams which ran with an extra man or two off the back of the square more frequently. That same AFL Media piece linked above suggested Adelaide and Richmond went with the new regulated set up just 4.4 per cent and 3.4 per cent of the time in 2018, preferring instead 7-6-5 at their standard look.
Note: the Crows and Tigers are coached by two of the best coaches in the league, and I know from experience Adelaide has an outstanding back office team looking at game analysis. They’ll be fine.
https://www.theroar.com.au/2019/02/21/how-2019s-afl-rule-changes-will-play-out-on-the-field/
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If the 6-6-6 rule forces us into a radical shake-up, it could be a great thing for us.
We won a flag with a radical shake-up that gave us a clear edge over the competition.
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Reported as if it’s a surprise and we haven’t been planning and training for it all preseason :lol :shh ::)
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Stick with gameplans despite new rules, Rance urges
AFL.com.au
Feb 22, 2019
THE NEW rules are on the minds of many in the AFL, but champion Richmond defender Alex Rance wants to ensure his side doesn't "throw the baby out with the bathwater".
There's been plenty of winning for the Tigers since the start of 2017, having gone 33-11 in that time, including a flag.
They used the 6-6-6 formation that will now be compulsory at centre bounces just 3.4 per cent of the time last year, however Rance doesn't want to see an overhaul of the gameplan.
"We know that the season we had last year and the last couple of seasons have been based around football in general, not so much just umpiring decisions and things like that," Rance said on Friday.
"When these rules come in, I think it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and rejig gameplans, because at the end of day, I think football always regresses back to that point of just playing the game."
The 29-year-old is enjoying the new rules, particularly allowing hands in the back.
"I really like what they've done. They make sense, especially the hands in the back, being able to place your hands in the back to hold your ground," Rance said.
"(Forearm in the back) was an awkward way to get into a contest. Now it's far more natural."
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-22/stick-with-gameplan-despite-new-rules-rance-urges
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Tigers weigh up transforming premiership game plan
Jon Pierik
The Age
23 Feb 2019
The new 6-6-6 ruling, which requires teams to have six players in both their forward and defensive arcs and six in the midfield at centre bounces, means teams will be at a disadvantage if they are regularly beaten out of the middle. Therefore, the need for a back-up specialist ruck has heightened, meaning the Tigers could field two more big men.
Justin Leppitsch, a premiership assistant coach with the Tigers, said on Saturday the coaches were considering all options.
"There will almost be another one again to our original structure, if we have a second ruckman, as well as Tom Lynch," he said.
"It will be a challenge but we will look at everything. We will look at any possibilities to get the result on the weekend – if it works. If it doesn't, we will, obviously, keep our small system."
That system was built on having Josh Caddy as a medium-sized marking target beside Riewoldt, and surrounding that pair with smaller, hard-running and high-pressure types who could kick goals or at least lock the ball inside 50.
After completing an intra-club clash at Punt Rd, Leppitsch said playing four talls would have an impact on selection and positions, particularly in terms of the four-man bench.
"What it will effect more than anything if you have four talls, if you go from two to four, is your bench – how much run you get through your team," he said.
"It will affect how many minutes Caddy plays forward or mid, it will affect [Jack] Higgins [as a] forward or mid, it will affect things like that. Do you carry a seventh defender or do you play another mid? All those things, questions get asked.
"It does affect the on-ground a little bit but it also affects your flexibility in your team and what you can do on the day. It has to be a week-to-week call but, like anything, if it's a dominant big man forward, it might change your philosophy. If there is no dominant big man, what's the point of having him? We have all sorts of those conversations all the time."
The Tigers are confident Lynch, who did not play in the intra-club match but ran laps beforehand, will be that dominant big man alongside Riewoldt when he has fully recovered from knee surgery, which restricted him to 10 games last year and has him in doubt for round one next month.
He could pinch-hit in the ruck but Ivan Saldo will be Nankervis' specialist back-up, if the Tigers head down that path.
Saldo and Nankervis were on the same side in the intra-club clash, and alternated between the centre square and forward line.
Leppitsch said the 6-6-6 ruling almost certainly meant a specialist ruck would be needed for centre bounces.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/tall-order-tigers-consider-game-plan-switch-20190223-p50zsk.html
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"If the ball is going to come out the front, it's not going to help if you have a shorter ruckman unless there are other mechanisms [and] we try to clog it up again. There is more than just one coming off the back of the square that you can do.
"There are a lot of adjustments because there are more forwards in your forward 50 but there is less congestion around the stoppage but more congestion when you actually get it in there, so the congestion is just moving from one side of the ground to the other. The backs – it's probably as not a bad a thing because you have more numbers around, more support.
"Forwards, there is more numbers in there to pressure. It's going to be interesting to see how it develops, whether it's going to be a better goal-scoring source or it's just going to create more stoppages in the front half. We'll wait and see."
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tall-order-tigers-consider-game-plan-switch-20190223-p50zsk.html
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More flow, less clutter: who will benefit from new AFL rules
Daniel Cherny
The Age
24 Feb 2019
The "6-6-6" rule for centre bounces
Our take on the new rule
The 6-6-6 rule is probably the most dramatic of the changes. It means players are placed into zones at the start of every quarter and every goal. Notwithstanding the rules preventing more than four players from starting in the second square, one of the most distinctive elements of football has been that players are allowed to roam the field, in contrast to other codes.
It must be stressed that once the ball has been bounced, players can run around freely so there is nothing stopping teams from putting a player behind the ball as soon as they are allowed to.
The rationale behind the rule is to open up forward lines, and maximise the chances of old-fashioned one-on-one battles inside forward 50.
One AFL club’s assistant coach suggested that scores from centre bounces would increase, and that the rule would make it harder to defend.
Who could benefit?
This should, in theory, benefit players who are strong contested marks in one-on-ones. St Kilda’s Paddy McCartin looms as the type of forward who could be helped by the rule as he is more likely to be afforded space.
Read more: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/more-flow-less-clutter-who-will-benefit-from-new-afl-rules-20190220-p50z4h.html
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
Made little difference to be honest
What I did notice was one of our wingers didn't start on the centre wing, one started at the near the back corner of the square
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
Made little difference to be honest
What I did notice was one of our wingers didn't start on the centre wing, one started at the near the back corner of the square
That makes sense. It would enable us to still have an extra behind the ball. Effectively playing a 7-5-6.
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
Made little difference to be honest
What I did notice was one of our wingers didn't start on the centre wing, one started at the near the back corner of the square
Yeah, the wingers positioning basically off HB made it seem like little had changed.
I thought the rules might have actually helped us a bit. Hard to be really certain in a preseason game, but I thought our forward line pace inside 50 looked more potent. I have often wondered why the opposition, when they know how we thrive on creating turnovers and winning the contest I50 for goals, play extra players back. It is kind of counterintuitive, because more defenders makes the creation of contests easier and limits options up the ground making turnovers coming out of defence more likely.
But watching today's game made me understand why teams like extra defenders against us. Because the alternative is getting cut apart by the pace of our small forwards with our players up the ground simply kicking to space rather than a contest. What is really scary for the opposition is how well our talls move in the forward half as well. Riewoldt and Balta move very nicely for big guys, and Lynch does too.
One other thing I thought stood out in todays game was the way Broad played and how important he might be for us this season. He has his detractors, but he plays that space filling role by constantly gut running to fill holes very well. He was superb in that regard today, and I thought he had quite an influence on the game.
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
Made little difference to be honest
What I did notice was one of our wingers didn't start on the centre wing, one started at the near the back corner of the square
Yeah, the wingers positioning basically off HB made it seem like little had changed.
I thought the rules might have actually helped us a bit. Hard to be really certain in a preseason game, but I thought our forward line pace inside 50 looked more potent. I have often wondered why the opposition, when they know how we thrive on creating turnovers and winning the contest I50 for goals, play extra players back. It is kind of counterintuitive, because more defenders makes the creation of contests easier and limits options up the ground making turnovers coming out of defence more likely.
But watching today's game made me understand why teams like extra defenders against us. Because the alternative is getting cut apart by the pace of our small forwards with our players up the ground simply kicking to space rather than a contest. What is really scary for the opposition is how well our talls move in the forward half as well. Riewoldt and Balta move very nicely for big guys, and Lynch does too.
One other thing I thought stood out in todays game was the way Broad played and how important he might be for us this season. He has his detractors, but he plays that space filling role by constantly gut running to fill holes very well. He was superb in that regard today, and I thought he had quite an influence on the game.
Really disagree regarding broad although he definitely improved in the 4th quarter. There was one play where he broke from half back and had an easy kick to a number of our players at half forward and he split it between them and killed the momentum. I think once Lynch comes into the forward line balta may find himself taking broads spot as he is already showing to be a much better kick and stronger mark.
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For those who saw the game, how noticeable were the new rules on our game?
33 scoring shots to just 21 and around 60 inside 50s suggests they didn't affect us detrimentally.
Made little difference to be honest
What I did notice was one of our wingers didn't start on the centre wing, one started at the near the back corner of the square
Yeah, the wingers positioning basically off HB made it seem like little had changed.
I thought the rules might have actually helped us a bit. Hard to be really certain in a preseason game, but I thought our forward line pace inside 50 looked more potent. I have often wondered why the opposition, when they know how we thrive on creating turnovers and winning the contest I50 for goals, play extra players back. It is kind of counterintuitive, because more defenders makes the creation of contests easier and limits options up the ground making turnovers coming out of defence more likely.
But watching today's game made me understand why teams like extra defenders against us. Because the alternative is getting cut apart by the pace of our small forwards with our players up the ground simply kicking to space rather than a contest. What is really scary for the opposition is how well our talls move in the forward half as well. Riewoldt and Balta move very nicely for big guys, and Lynch does too.
One other thing I thought stood out in todays game was the way Broad played and how important he might be for us this season. He has his detractors, but he plays that space filling role by constantly gut running to fill holes very well. He was superb in that regard today, and I thought he had quite an influence on the game.
Really disagree regarding broad although he definitely improved in the 4th quarter. There was one play where he broke from half back and had an easy kick to a number of our players at half forward and he split it between them and killed the momentum. I think once Lynch comes into the forward line balta may find himself taking broads spot as he is already showing to be a much better kick and stronger mark.
He made some pretty glaring mistakes for sure and his skills aren't the greatest. My focus was on his positional play. When we were on a roll and Melbourne were having a lot of trouble moving the ball forward, Broad played a big part cutting down options by reading the play well and filling gaps. Our pressure game revolves around that.
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Stupid & unnecessary window dressing...as someone said elsewhere- could you imagine the EPL changing the rules of football on the say so of some wanker pissant journalist like Whately? Amateur hour in Clown World. :shh
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Stupid & unnecessary window dressing...as someone said elsewhere- could you imagine the EPL changing the rules of football on the say so of some wanker peeant journalist like Whately? Amateur hour in Clown World. :shh
Pretty average look with the application of the new rule in the West Coast V Geelong game.
Umpires did not notice the Cats didn't have players in the right positions. Hurn alerts umpire, who kills the play. No one knows what is going on. Game stops for 30 seconds or so. West Coast finally take a free kick from the middle, thump it long to their forward line and get a contested mark and I think Allen then kicked a goal. Pretty high price to pay.
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I think a free kick is pretty reasonable penalty for breaking the rules. What do you suggest?
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I think a free kick is pretty reasonable penalty for breaking the rules. What do you suggest?
5 laps of the oval after training
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Nick Vlastuin: New rule could help Tigers improve
Peter Ryan
The Age
5 March 2019
The new six-six-six rule could be an advantage for Richmond as they look to atone for last year's preliminary final loss to Collingwood, according to premiership defender Nick Vlastuin.
The Tigers showed their ability against Melbourne in Shepparton on Sunday to rebound quickly off half-back once they intercepted the ball, with Bachar Houli and Jayden Short using their speed to break the game open in the second and third quarters.
Nick Vlastuin likes one-on-one contests, which the six-six-six rule is expected to highlight.Credit:Jason South
Richmond had 16 running bounces compared to Melbourne's two and Vlastuin said the Tigers had the confidence and ability to turn defence into attack and they were also prepared to surge forward quickly from stoppages.
"This six-six-six might actually help us because we have got a lot of strong runners who can carry [the ball up] the ground," Vlastuin said.
The Tigers also have explosive midfielders Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin, Dion Prestia and Shane Edwards, who are likely to benefit from space the rule creates at centre bounces.
Champion Data has predicted that Richmond might be the team that needs to adjust their style of play the most under the new rule as the Tigers commonly set up two spare players behind the ball at centre bounces, which not only stopped the opposition from scoring but helped the Tigers surge the ball forward if they won first possession.
However Vlastuin said defenders also enjoyed the challenge of one-on-one contests and it made the game easier for players in some regards.
"I like the one-on-ones. It's when you are playing spare and you don't get to either contest ... that is when you feel like a goose," Vlastuin said.
"At least with one-on-one contests you are always kind of in it."
Richmond conceded the second fewest points last season and were the second most prolific scorers. The AFL hopes the new rule can help clubs score more.
The Tigers' defender said Richmond were still experimenting with what style of play to adopt under the new rules and he expected that to continue, with Sunday's game having thrown up some surprises.
"We're not really sure what it will look like at the end of the year," Vlastuin said.
"Maybe some coach will turn around and introduce something and everyone will be doing that."
Despite losing last year's preliminary final, the Tigers have dominated for most of the past two seasons, winning 37 of their past 49 games.
They also won their first JLT Community Series match against Melbourne - who also played in a preliminary final last year - on Sunday by 12 points.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/nick-vlastuin-new-rule-could-help-tigers-improve-20190305-p511ru.html
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I think a free kick is pretty reasonable penalty for breaking the rules. What do you suggest?
For breaking a stupid rule - an Order of Australia for services to football.... :shh
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I think a free kick is pretty reasonable penalty for breaking the rules. What do you suggest?
My point merely was that it seems a harsh penalty (a goal from the chance to drive the ball deep into the forward line kept artifically open by keeping players in assigned positions) for a simple infraction.
Have you seen the footage I was referring to?
Sure, we have the centre square and an infringement there attracts a similar penalty, I get that and the fact that the centre square (or diamond as it orignally was) has helped football evolve into a more watchable game.
I just think it was a harsh penalty.
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I think a free kick is pretty reasonable penalty for breaking the rules. What do you suggest?
My point merely was that it seems a harsh penalty (a goal from the chance to drive the ball deep into the forward line kept artifically open by keeping players in assigned positions) for a simple infraction.
Have you seen the footage I was referring to?
Sure, we have the centre square and an infringement there attracts a similar penalty, I get that and the fact that the centre square (or diamond as it orignally was) has helped football evolve into a more watchable game.
I just think it was a harsh penalty.
I take your point but to suggest that the penalty was a goal is a stretch. They still had to mark inside 50 then kick truly to get the goal. Not every free kick in the centre leads to a goal.
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RETRO RUCKS
Michael Gleeson
The Age
12 March 2019
What the new rules look to have done is kill off the pseudo-ruck. It is doubtful Damien Hardwick would choose to use Shaun Grigg in the ruck again with the new rules allowing rucks to grab the ball out of the ruck without it being deemed prior opportunity, and the six-six-six rule opening space at centre bounces and making the ruck and onballers more damaging.
These two rules have made rucks more effective and with that the risk of not having a specialist ruckman to compete is too great. Most teams are now looking to use two rucks and to have them be able to rotate forward - how very retro.
Max Gawn might win the Brownlow this year with these new rules, but the query is what the Demons do with their other talls. As impressive as Braydon Preuss was in a couple of early practice matches, the Demons' best set up still looks to be Gawn, Tom McDonald and Sam Weideman.
Likewise at Richmond - and this one has not been tested in the pre-season because we haven't seen Tom Lynch yet - but what do the Tigers do for second ruck? They are unlikely to use Lynch, who is coming off a PCL injury. So who do they use as their second ruck without becoming too top heavy forward of the ball?
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/what-we-learnt-from-the-afl-pre-season-20190311-p513b6.html
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What did everyone think about the new 6-6-6 rule? Did it affect the way we played?
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Little to no impact.
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What did everyone think about the new 6-6-6 rule? Did it affect the way we played?
We will find out next week when Rance is unavailable. I reckon not having his leadership and direction will hurt us down there more so than his physical impact.
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We were beaten in the centre clearances after 1/4 time. It didn't matter as we still racked up 60 inside 50s and outscored Carlton heavily from defensive midfield chains once we intercepted the ball. We can't rely on that however against the top sides as they will make it harder to break out and score from attacks starting in our defence.
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What did everyone think about the new 6-6-6 rule? Did it affect the way we played?
Last night proved that like the new kick in rule it was a change for change sake.
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Even worse was the no runners being allowed.
Does the afl really think it looks better having guys hold up numbers up on the sideline to let players know who needs to come off. Also leaves players off for longer than they need to.
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The stupidest thing tonight was the Geelong bench holding up a plain red board to tell their players it was red-time and late in the quarter. Ummm that's what the clock on the scoreboard is for fellows!
One thing about the 6-6-6 rule from the two games so far is it creates a couple of over the top out the back goals from a long clean centre clearance. The tall forwards push up under the incoming ball to let it get over the back and someone waits behind or runs past the pack to anticipate it. Nank got at least one of his goals last night from this.