Author Topic: Essendon face AFL probe/Players found Guilty by CAS  (Read 557999 times)

Offline Yeahright

  • Moderator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9394
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #930 on: July 19, 2013, 02:41:44 PM »
I spoke to a man today who is right in the know, he's saying the worst possible senario for the Bombers is Hird will be suspended for 12 months and the club will cop a fine! He said that that's what the AFL have outed to the club.
If at the end of the day they have been found guilty of any thing and that's the lame ass penalty they cop then more than a Truck load of chicken poo will be dumped somwhere!!!!

Who's he in the know with? Remember WADA can over turn whatever ASADA hand down if they see fit

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58096
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #931 on: July 19, 2013, 09:45:09 PM »
Appears Jimmy Hird has got a bit emotional at his presser this morning:
====================================================
James Hird lashes 'half-truths, rhetoric and lies'
Date: July 19, 2013 - 10:40AM (0)


Essendon coach James Hird has hit out at what he calls innuendo, half-truths and lies spread about him and his AFL club over the supplements saga.

Hird has played a straight bat throughout the ongoing five-month ASADA investigation into his club's suspect supplements program in 2012.

But after a week of having sand kicked in his face - being described as the architect of the program, among the claims - an emotional Hird went on a measured defensive on Friday.

"There's been some truth put out there, but the constant innuendo, rhetoric, half-truths and probably lies that have been spun about the club, the players, the great people that work here, and the half-truths, rhetoric and lies that have been spun about myself have been very hurtful and very damaging," Hird said.

"It's very hard when you keep looking at the hurtful and damaging nature of those comments."

The club issued a strongly worded statement this week refuting Fairfax Media allegations that the AFL warned Hird against looking into the use of peptides.

The Bombers have also denied that Hird was the main architect of the club’s controversial 2012 supplements program.

As he has throughout the process, Hird urged people not to rush to judgment and wait for ASADA to deliver its findings, which are expected next month.

But he also admitted frustration at not being able to fully respond to claims publicly - the Bombers maintaining they cannot make full and frank comment on the issue until after the investigation is completed.

‘‘It’s hard when you can’t respond either. It’s hard when you want to talk about the facts, when you want to explain to people what has happened here,’’ Hird said.

‘‘But the club has committed to a process and we’ll follow the process through.

‘‘But I would say to people ... if you are sitting in judgment, if you’ve made your judgment, please wait until the facts are on the table.

‘‘The facts will come out on the table very soon.

‘‘To my peers, to the players at other clubs, to the people at other clubs, if you can reserve your judgment until all the facts are on the table and we get a chance to see the report, put our version of events across, that would be much appreciated.

‘‘There’s no person out there more than myself than wants the truth, that is trying to find the truth, that wants it out on the table.’’

AAP

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/james-hird-lashes-halftruths-rhetoric-and-lies-20130719-2q8dr.html#ixzz2ZRqE5V68
==============

Boo whoooo

My heart bleeds ....NOT  :banghead
Once again another press conference where Essendon comment that they can't comment and it's just everyone picking on them  :nopity.

Jimmy cries but there's still no denial from him about the 2011 meeting with the AFL over AOD-9604  :whistle.

All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline (•))(©™

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 8410
  • Dimalaka
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #932 on: July 20, 2013, 02:42:18 AM »
Re the half truths claim.

If even half of what has been reported is true, they're as guilty as sin itself
Caracella and Balmey.

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58096
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #933 on: July 20, 2013, 04:11:47 AM »
Re the half truths claim.

If even half of what has been reported is true, they're as guilty as sin itself
True Ox. It seems everyone except those delusional at Essendon get that.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Online one-eyed

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 95747
    • One-Eyed Richmond
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #934 on: July 20, 2013, 04:55:48 AM »
Stick with code, says WADA

   Samantha Lane
    The Age
    July 20, 2013


World Anti-Doping Agency president John Fahey has underlined that the global code is the ''only document that matters'' in doping cases.

Fahey resisted interpreting events in which the Australian Anti-Doping Authority provided the Australian Crime Commission with incomplete advice on AOD-9604, but his message was clear: the substance is prohibited and an athlete found to have used it should face the consequences.

''I don't know what the chain of information was to be able to conclusively explain anything. And I'm certainly not going to guess,'' Fahey said of the communication that led the ACC to publish information about AOD-9604 in its report on crime, corruption and drugs in Australian sport that was incomplete, though not incorrect.

While ASADA advised the ACC, correctly, that AOD-9604 did not fall into the S2 category of WADA's prohibited list, it has acknowledged it did not reference the substance's categorisation in the S-O ''non-approved substances''. ASADA would not acknowledge that as an error this week but, crucially, it has stated previously that it has ''not advised any party that AOD-9604 is permitted in sport''.

AFL boss Andrew Demetriou last week referred to a ''classification issue'' around AOD-9604, but Fahey said on Friday: ''I know what is clear, and I'll say it again, the substance known as AOD-9604 has never been approved, to my knowledge, by any health or regulatory authority anywhere in the world for human consumption, and therefore it is prohibited under the S-O provision … All that matters for an anti-doping violation, an ADV, is the WADA code. The simple facts here are there's a code, the athlete is bound by that code, the athlete is liable if there's a breach of that code or a violation under that code. Full stop.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stick-with-code-says-wada-20130719-2qa08.html#ixzz2ZWFQ0dDn

Offline Tigeritis™©®

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9443
  • Richmond, Premiers 2017.2019
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #935 on: July 20, 2013, 10:46:05 AM »
The "golden boy" Hird annoys me with his constant "facts" rhetoric.

What's the big deal if he states some facts?
If they are so certain of there innocence why was Dank, Robinson & the footy manager sacked?
Why did the President & the CEO resign?
It's not as if they'll be in breach of law if they state some "facts" that possibly clear them of any wrongdoing?
Isn't the smartest thing to do is get the "facts" into the public arena so as to instill reasonable doubt about there guilt?
If ASADA stuffed up then prove it. Then ASADA will have to explain themselves.

This whole thing including the secrecy smacks of a backroom deal being finalized between the ASADA and Essendank with the AFL facilitating the whole thing to resolve it into a very very neat package.

If "golden boy" Hird gets off or with just a wrist slap, footy won't be the same for me. I might even give up on the whole competition.
The club that keeps giving.

Gigantor

  • Guest
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #936 on: July 20, 2013, 10:49:35 AM »
Mr T did the dons president resign too?I thought it was just their CEO.

Offline Tigeritis™©®

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9443
  • Richmond, Premiers 2017.2019
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #937 on: July 20, 2013, 10:55:08 AM »
Mr T did the dons president resign too?I thought it was just their CEO.
Sorry mate he hasn't. I was mistaken.
Waiting for a members vote at seasons end to seal his fate. 
The club that keeps giving.

Online one-eyed

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 95747
    • One-Eyed Richmond
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #938 on: July 20, 2013, 12:16:56 PM »
As debate rages, a former external lawyer for the AFL Players Association said Essendon's players could avoid sanctions from allegedly using AOD-9604 if the anti-obesity drug was deemed a supplement rather than a substance.

Andrew Scott, a principal of Moores Legal, also said the Australian Crime Commission's report that the drug was not prohibited, and the fact the ASADA online ''check your substances'' search tool gives an ''all clear'' print-out for AOD-9604 ''gives players a real chance of demonstrating that they were not at fault at all and thus not liable to be disqualified''.

Scott said the significance of whether the drug was a supplement or a substance under the WADA code, and where its catch-all SO clause sat within this had not been publicly raised before.

''There is a new legal argument available to Essendon and its players that SO does not apply to AOD-9604 because it is a supplement rather than a substance and, accordingly, not prohibited after all,'' he said.

''If AOD-9604 is in fact a supplement and not a substance then ASADA has a serious problem because the only basis on which AOD-9604 is prohibited is SO of the prohibited list. SO states that it is pharmacological substances which are prohibited if not approved for human therapeutic use. It does not refer to pharmacological supplements.

''This might be seen as a small point, except for one thing: ASADA says on its own website that substances are different from supplements.''

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wait-for-the-facts-says-hird-20130719-2qa0a.html#ixzz2ZXIWczTk

Offline Judge Roughneck

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11132
  • Sir
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #939 on: July 20, 2013, 01:19:36 PM »
Put the dogs injail

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58096
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #940 on: July 20, 2013, 03:46:50 PM »
I had to laugh at Robbo with his Bomber beanie on today on SEN claiming Ted Richards receiving 15 injections on Grand Final day was not that different to Essendon players receiving 35 injections over the course of a year  :wallywink.

Ummm Robbo ..... painkillers are permitted in sports, they are given on-site and by a club doctor and they aren't given for systematic performance enhancing reasons over the course of a year  :wallywink


Quote
''This might be seen as a small point, except for one thing: ASADA says on its own website that substances are different from supplements.''

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/wait-for-the-facts-says-hird-20130719-2qa0a.html#ixzz2ZXIWczTk
The ASADA website states that supplements may contain prohibited substances so the above claim by that lawyer is untrue.

http://www.asada.gov.au/substances/supplements.html
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Penelope

  • Internet nuffer and sooky jellyfish
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12777
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #941 on: July 20, 2013, 04:46:38 PM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Judge Roughneck

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 11132
  • Sir
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #942 on: July 20, 2013, 05:22:59 PM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.

The difference is one is allowed by wada one is not

There is nae valid point.

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58096
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #943 on: July 20, 2013, 06:07:27 PM »
while painkillers are permitted, Blobbo has a point.

They are performance enhancing and should be banned.

If a player has an injury and could not play without the pain being masked, then that substance is enhancing his performance, as well as doing untold damage to the injury.

It is one of the greatest inconsistencies that a player cannot get a legal (to the rest of us) substance to help then recover from an injury, but can legally make an injury worse by numbing the pain it causes.

The difference is one is allowed by wada one is not
Precisely in this Essendon context. Nor can prescribing medication that is well understood medically (including side effects) and that has undergone strict clinical trials on humans be compared to substances that have not been tested on humans and where these substances were secretly experimented on ill-informed footballers. 

al, painkillers don't enhance a footballer's performance beyond his previous normal/uninjured levels.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Online one-eyed

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 95747
    • One-Eyed Richmond
Re: Essendon face AFL probe
« Reply #944 on: July 21, 2013, 02:35:49 AM »
Dear Bomber fans...

    Jake Niall
    The Age
    July 21, 2013


Bombers fans, you're entitled to be peeed off. This season should be like 1981, when Sheeds first came over and they won 15 in a row. It's one of those breakout seasons, when a team suddenly jumps up and becomes a contender. A few of the comeback wins - the Fremantle one, the Carlton game - have been goosebump stuff.

That Hirdy and Bomber are coaching the club - your greatest living icon and your 1993 premiership captain - should just add to that feeling. It should be a special, joyous time, with Joey Daniher and Jake Carlisle set to be the bookends for the next 10 years.

But, as even someone with zero interest in footy knows, what's happening on the field has been marred - if not completely ruined. For every happy story about Carlisle, Daniher or Michael Hibberd, there's about 10 on Stephen Dank and AOD-9604, or some other weird substance that the boys supposedly have been given.

Football is usually a chance to escape from life's challenges, to forget about paying bills, work or a problem in your relationship. But the media won't let you get away, nor will the fans of the other teams. That you've been winning only intensifies the accusations that you've cheated. They wouldn't know, of course. They aren't objective observers, any more than you are. They're barracking for an outcome - which is to see Essendon rubbed out and barred from the finals, draft picks removed, the players rubbed out and Hird sacked. You're correct in identifying a tall poppy syndrome at work here. Opposition clubs and their fans don't like Essendon, and they've started to see this scandal as football's Watergate, with Hirdy cast as Richard Nixon.

I'm not presuming to know what you're feeling, but I hope I have the imagination - as someone who loves football and grew up in more innocent times - to see that how this makes you angry. Your team is just emerging from darkness and then you cop this ASADA crap.

You have emotion invested in this outcome; I don't. What I'll try to do is lay out some of the awful situation, as I see it.

I don't think the players should be punished. I've investigated this subject quite rigorously and, regardless of what the WADA code says about ''strict liability'', the players did what they were told. Some did, in fact, question what was going on - credit to them. But the AFL is pretty totalitarian - virtually fascist - in terms of players following their coaches and officials. It's not like Asafa Powell, a track and field runner, taking a banned substance, because that athlete employs the coach/supplement expert. The players are more like soldiers following a chain of command.

But prepare yourselves for the club to cop a pretty big whack. I can't see it escaping major sanctions and that doesn't simply mean a fine. Fines are meaningless - they don't hurt rich clubs and the poor clubs don't really pay them. I foresee premiership points removed - hopefully this year only - and draft picks taken away. This wouldn't be a terrible outcome, given that the team peaks next year and in 2015-16. Again, educated reading of the tea leaves.

Some of this stuff is like the debate about climate change. It's highly technical and complex, and few people understand it, but that doesn't stop them from holding strong opinions - for and against. Unfortunately, some of you fall into the denialist camp - and can't accept that the club did much wrong, when it's clear from the club's own Ziggy Switkowski report that this is an appalling scandal on multiple levels. The chief executive and Dank have been shoved, the previous football manager went last year, The Weapon is under suspension but will never work for Essendon again.

Hirdy will be very fortunate to keep his job. He might get away with a suspension only. You are the coach's greatest asset - your love of Hird. You are certainly a factor in the club's deliberations, but the rest of the football public - yep, all the Essendon haters and plenty of footy agnostics - will see it as farcical if the coach isn't at least suspended. For what it's worth, I'd like to see a mea culpa from Hird, for failing in his duty of care. Don't blame the media for raising questions about what was taken by whom - it's our job. You'd expect the same if this was Carlton or any other club.

AOD-9604 has received more publicity than it should have, in my opinion. In large part, this is because a) we know it's deemed banned under the provisions of WADA, b) the players signed consent forms in which it is listed, and c) Jobe admitted he took it. It looks like the players were more or less guinea pigs with this drug.

But don't kid yourselves that this whole investigation rests on the status of AOD-9604, the anti-obesity drug, which is what you call a ''specified substance'' under WADA rules.

It is banned, contrary to the confusion created - some of it deliberate - by vested interests. But as a specified substance, the players can be found guilty and still receive a reprimand. There's no evidence it's performance-enhancing, but it isn't approved for human use anywhere. My view is that they will, indeed, get off without suspension for using AOD-9604 (which sounds like a planet from the Alien franchise).

More worrisome is the fact that there were all sorts of more serious substances at the club. One substance that the players appear to have taken is Thymosin, which is on the consent forms. Thymosin Alpha - used for AIDS patients - is kosher. Thymosin Beta 4, is not - it's deemed performance-enhancing. There is strong circumstantial evidence that it was Beta 4, not Alpha, that was administered to players. The players haven't been able to tell ASADA which one they took. The club doesn't talk much about this. It didn't comment when The Age put forward quite a detailed story about Beta 4 and the probability that it was given to players. The club will stick to legalistic-type arguments on this score - that it can't be definitely proved that they took it.

Hexarelin - which is performance-enhancing and banned - was at the club and Dank claims he gave it coaches, including Hirdy. You should only really worry if was given to players, who matter far more than the coaches.

There's some ugliness ahead. But better to pull the tooth out now, rather than letting it fester. One day soon, you'll be able to go to the footy without thinking about anything other than Jobe and Joey.

Yours, Jake.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dear-bomber-fans-20130720-2qbkc.html#ixzz2ZbWkzdml