Can i get your thoughts on this?

[big tone]

Can I get your thoughts on this?
Yesterday was the first time in a long time that I had a chance to go watch my beloved Tigers and I chose to do something else. I really enjoy going to the footy and even go interstate sometimes to do so.
I seriously think the AFL has a massive problem regarding the draft and the way the picks are worked out. Teams are rewarded for finishing near the bottom and with the priority selections even rewarded for finishing near the bottom in successive years.
I realise that is designed to even up the comp but really what it is doing is jeopardising the integrity of the competition.
Whether you are for or against ‘tanking’ the realisation is that it happens and will continue to happen until something is done to fix the problem. Personally I don’t blame teams for doing it because if the ‘powers that be of clubs’ didn’t take into account the future of the club they surely would be seen as negligent. Winning meaningless games when you are out of finals contention is just plain stupid imo when the system rewards losing.
Which brings me back to why I chose to do something else yesterday (get drunk) instead of going to the footy- it was round 13 and for me the season is well and truly over and all I can hope is we keep losing so we get better picks come draft day. Going to the footy and hoping your team looses is just not enjoyable to me and maybe others. The AFL must open up their eyes and see that this is hurting the game and people not turning up is not good for our game also.
This year more than ever with the new teams coming in, is vital to the lower clubs to try and get the best possible players to their clubs before the drafts are compromised.
The AFL need to work out a system so that all teams endeavour to win all games they play whether it’s round 1 or round 22, they need to still help the lower teams try and get more competitive but the game of AFL has to come first.
I personally think we should get rid of the priority picks, this would straight away take away a lot of the problems and clubs would have to maybe work a little harder to try and improve their lists. Also as some have talked about maybe have a raffle of the bottom 8 sides to determine the draft picking order. This would alleviate the temptation to try and finish last. So finishing ‘middle of the road’ is not a disadvantage also. (Tigers)
The AFL change rules every year for game day decisions but IMO have let this problem get worse and worse. It’s time the AFL has a real good look at the system in place or people like me will just decide to do other things on game day instead of going and barracking for our clubs if winning is hurting the club long term! 

[DallasCrane]

Tone I think they have already pretty much sounded the death knell for priority picks before the 1st round. Melbourne will be the last team to qualify for it and it looks like they will get it too.

I agree with what you say, about a year ago we had a discussion about this on here, I am a fan of an NBA style lottery myself, except put the bottom 8 teams in a hat and give them all an equal chance to get the no.1 pick- Yes a side on the cusp of finals could get a no.1 pick but you would never see tanking again.

[crannyvegas]

Tone I think they have already pretty much sounded the death knell for priority picks before the 1st round. Melbourne will be the last team to qualify for it and it looks like they will get it too.

I agree with what you say, about a year ago we had a discussion about this on here, I am a fan of an NBA style lottery myself, except put the bottom 8 teams in a hat and give them all an equal chance to get the no.1 pick- Yes a side on the cusp of finals could get a no.1 pick but you would never see tanking again.

Really good idea!! I have thought that the NBA style is unfair to the bottom team but by stopping the idea of "tanking" it makes every game interesting for the right reasons. the draft is luck of the draw anyway and i think what the club does with the kid when it walks through the doors is more important than the difference of the first and the eight pick

[Stripes]

I agree completely that the draft system is flawed and that the NBA system, or a varient on it, who be a much better option to use. I would use a lottery system but a slanted one with the bottom team getting  16 (or 18 when the new teams come in) lottery balls, the next team 15 all the way up to the top team which gets one. This gives the bottom teams the best chance of getting the first pick but the difference between finishing last and 9th is not as significant to the draft as it is now.

This system just seems logical and while it would probably be done using a computer (though the lottery still isn't) it would stop clubs designing losses and supporters hoping for defeats. I am guilty of avocating the 'tank' this season but I would much prefer to get rid of the whole draft debate and change the system to reward success rather than failure.

Stripes

[big tone]

I agree completely that the draft system is flawed and that the NBA system, or a varient on it, who be a much better option to use. I would use a lottery system but a slanted one with the bottom team getting  16 (or 18 when the new teams come in) lottery balls, the next team 15 all the way up to the top team which gets one. This gives the bottom teams the best chance of getting the first pick but the difference between finishing last and 9th is not as significant to the draft as it is now.

This system just seems logical and while it would probably be done using a computer (though the lottery still isn't) it would stop clubs designing losses and supporters hoping for defeats. I am guilty of avocating the 'tank' this season but I would much prefer to get rid of the whole draft debate and change the system to reward success rather than failure.

Stripes

Even that way Stripes would not completely outlaw tanking, imo. It has to be regardless of where you finish (bottom you have the same chance of getting pick 1 etc. or teams will still try to finish bottom to get that 'little' bit better chance of getting that pick 1.

[big tone]

Tone I think they have already pretty much sounded the death knell for priority picks before the 1st round. Melbourne will be the last team to qualify for it and it looks like they will get it too.

I agree with what you say, about a year ago we had a discussion about this on here, I am a fan of an NBA style lottery myself, except put the bottom 8 teams in a hat and give them all an equal chance to get the no.1 pick- Yes a side on the cusp of finals could get a no.1 pick but you would never see tanking again.

Really good idea!! I have thought that the NBA style is unfair to the bottom team but by stopping the idea of "tanking" it makes every game interesting for the right reasons. the draft is luck of the draw anyway and i think what the club does with the kid when it walks through the doors is more important than the difference of the first and the eight pick

I agree to a point DC but you cannot tell me that getting pick 1 isn't better than pick 8? Even if you look at the top 10 draft picks from last year as appossed to picks 11 to 20, the amount of games played is quite different in only 13 rounds. So imo draft pick numbers do count alot. But as you say, what you do to them when they arrive counts too.

[the_boy_jake]

I like DC's idea of the bottom 8 having equal choice as opposed to a weighted 16 team draft.

Two reasons:

It encourages fighting for 8th.

If you finish last and get at worst pick 8 you can still build your squad if you finish last and have bad luck in the 16 team lottery for a few years then it might take you a while.

I hadn't thought of DC's idea. My preferred one was to pair up picks in consecutive rounds

e.g.

1 & 32
2 & 31
3& 30
.
.
.
16&17

and let the clubs choose which picks they want, starting with the club who finished last. It would make different clubs' strategies interesting to see.

[Stripes]

I agree completely that the draft system is flawed and that the NBA system, or a varient on it, who be a much better option to use. I would use a lottery system but a slanted one with the bottom team getting  16 (or 18 when the new teams come in) lottery balls, the next team 15 all the way up to the top team which gets one. This gives the bottom teams the best chance of getting the first pick but the difference between finishing last and 9th is not as significant to the draft as it is now.

This system just seems logical and while it would probably be done using a computer (though the lottery still isn't) it would stop clubs designing losses and supporters hoping for defeats. I am guilty of avocating the 'tank' this season but I would much prefer to get rid of the whole draft debate and change the system to reward success rather than failure.

Stripes

Even that way Stripes would not completely outlaw tanking, imo. It has to be regardless of where you finish (bottom you have the same chance of getting pick 1 etc. or teams will still try to finish bottom to get that 'little' bit better chance of getting that pick 1.

I also like the lottery for the last 8 but I guess throwing in the top 8 as well would reward those teams fighting for success (even if their chances are radically reduced).

I don't think clubs would 'tank' to increase their chances in the draft if it only by a small percentage. The difference between 16 (or 8 if just using the bottom 8 model) 'lottery balls' and 13(4) would not be worth all the pain of the losses.

The system at the moment, with the priority picks, is just too enticing for clubs who are struggling to make the finals.

Stripes

[Infamy]

The difference between the NBA and AFL is that in basketball a number 1 pick is 20% of your starting side, 2 years down the bottom gets half your team as the best college basketballers in the country. They are more developed and more of a sure thing by the age they are picked for an NBA team.
Compare that with an AFL #1 pick being 5.5% of their side, there's a big difference there, they are also only 18 years old and are less likely to make it.

[Judge Roughneck]

No doubt the current AFL draft system of come last -> best picks, reward lack of wins etc. is a joke.

NBA has a good set up.

AFL crap is a load of crap and has been for 10 years. It makes the sport a much, much worse overall package.

I will never forget Melb vs Carlton.


That said our club are morons for not taking advantage of the system the last 5-8 years, choosing to top up / come 9th etc. instead.

[Beren]

I went to the football to see my Tiges play. I knew it wouldn't be pretty. But I went.
End of story.

[Ekto]

I cut a productive fishing trip short on Sunday to ensure I was home to watch the Tigers on TV. ( I am not in Melbourne)

I cried into several stubbies while watching the game.

I am going to the Gold Coast game to watch the Tigers and if we perform badly I will be disappointed.

But I will still support the Tigers and go or watch whenever I can.

Stop whinging and get on board ALL THE TIME, not just during the good times.

 

[big tone]

I cut a productive fishing trip short on Sunday to ensure I was home to watch the Tigers on TV. ( I am not in Melbourne)

I cried into several stubbies while watching the game.

I am going to the Gold Coast game to watch the Tigers and if we perform badly I will be disappointed.

But I will still support the Tigers and go or watch whenever I can.

Stop whinging and get on board ALL THE TIME, not just during the good times.

 

You fisherman nerd!  pathetic- 'if we perform badly i will be disappionted'
I was not whinging, simplely stating my thoughts on the draft system.
Go and read about fish


Edit: No need for the namecalling and avoiding the swear filter

[Go Richo 12]

I agree with nba draft style in that everyone has a chance of a number one draft pick but the bottom team has a greater chance of recieving it! I am also a fan of trading future draft picks as a means of avoiding tanking. eg. Judd is up for trade and melbourne offer their following years first draft choice. Melbourne therefore is cutting its nose off to spite its face if it plays bad enough to get the number one pick and then have to give it to the club that traded Judd. It can only work without the current priority pick laws.

[mightytiges]

I like the NBA lottery draft system as well. IIRC it was only a year or two ago that the team that would be equivalent to our "9th" scored the 1st pick in the draft. Under the current AFL system finishing 9th is a mediocre trap where clubs are penalised.

The priority picks are what makes tanking too tempting in the AFL. It's no coincidence that teams never finish with one more win than the cut-off win number. PPs would need to be scrapped.

Perhaps if ladder positions throughout the year were used to determine the final draft order then clubs wouldn't need to tank the second half of the season. Say add ladder positions at rounds 6, 11, 16, 22 then divide by 4. Basically you're weighting the final draft order across the whole season rather than just round 22. At least it's someway to not penalise a club so greatly that has a few wins towards the end of the year to rise from 15th to 12th and likewise doesn't reward a Carltank that deliberately loses it's final 8 games to drop from 11th to 15th.

R6   R11  R16  R22              Draft
15 + 15 + 14 + 12 = 56/4 = 14 (pick 3)
11 + 12 + 14 + 15 = 52/4 = 13 (pick 4)

The way things are now with about 5 clubs already in playing the kids mode there'll be plenty of blowouts in scores which isn't good for the game. With the uneven fixture we have it's unfair on sides vying for the finals. If you're Collingwood playing these bottom clubs more often than other clubs then their draw is even softer than it usually is and they're being gifted a top 4 spot .