11th December 2005/ Cronulla Beach!

[Puntroadroar]

Further proof about how people have become way too soft, just learnt today that my young kids cant even sing ba ba black sheep have you any wool anymore, they have to sing ba ba pink sheep have you any spots? 

[Razorblade]

Moi, overreacting about how the PC folk behave was what i meant! 

Yep i saw that, she said how she thought it was simply a party, walked outside and got smashed by a lebo with a baseball bat!

stuffing disgraceful!

Also the girls being told they were going to be raped, can anyone justify that?

These aren't small groups either, we are talking about entire communities here, who have been allowed to do whatever they want without being pulled into line, well the government and the police have had their chance and have done NOTHING to fix the problems, they just made it worse!

[julzqld]

Too wrongs don't make a right Razor.  People shouldn't take the law into their own hands.  Otherwise we become as bad as America.

And as for politcally correcting Christmas - what a load of rubbish!  This point I don't agree with.  We allow people from other countries to practice their religion and we respect them for that so please do not try to phase out our religious holidays/practices etc.  And those poor Santas!  Santa has to have a blue card (in Queensland at least), children are not allowed to sit on his knee, both of Santa's hands must be visible at all times, no giving lollies or patting children on the head (the later offends some religions).  The world is going mad!!!

[Ethel Merman]

Hi all, first time poster here, interesting topic this...how come to some when it's surfer type Aussies making absolute dicks of themselves it understandable because their standing up for their rights and when it's Mid-Eastern type Aussies making absolute dicks of themselves it's because their criminal bastards who don't know their place? After what I saw broadcast from Cronulla I'll never look at overseas news footage of riotous louts again and think well, we're better off than lot.  The lids off this thing now and nobody knows how it will play out.  Will it step up from fists and feet to knives and guns?  However it goes you can bet that that prick Howard will play it for all he's worth if means increasing his standing in opinion polls and his grip on power.

[Moi]

Until Johnny acknowledges that we have a racial problem and it's not just mob violence, we'll have continuing problems.  How can we stop it if we have our head in the sand and deny it exists.  Methinks by denying it he's condoning it, and going on his past doings with Asians, Tampa, and everything else, how could you not think he is loving it.  I despise that man  ???

[tiga]

WP - Go talk to some women who have been gangraped, or even sexually harassed by Lebo's over the past decade and tell them there isn't a problem!

How about Anita Cobby, All of Ivan Milat's victims, All of John Glover's victims, Peter Falconio, Lyndsay Van Blanken (the girl in the cricket bag). Need I go on?? All these horrendous crimes commited by so called 'red blodded' Aussies. When it all boils down, it is the human psyche that makes people dangerous, not our skin colour.

[Razorblade]

Then what do you make of these statistics?

+ 40% of Organized Adult Crime is Middle Eastern (with Lebanese representing 26%)
+ 26% of Youth Gangs in Australia are Lebanese.
+ Lebanese are convicted of crime three more times than any Australian.
+ Thus, immigrants from Lebanon have a higher rate of imprisonment.
+ Lebanese rape at double the rate of Australian Citizens.

I'm happy to get more statistics if you want!

[WilliamPowell]

No need for my Stats Razor just the source of the stats please 

[Razorblade]

No need for my Stats Razor just the source of the stats please 

The stats are taken from:
http://www.uts.edu.au/new/releases/2002/September/pdfs/f_section5.pdf
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/ethnicity-crime/ethnic-ch4.pdf

Also some more stats:

+ 5 out of every 100 Lebanese will commit a crime.
+ 6 out of every 100 Vietnamese will commit a crime
+ 2 out of every 100 Vietnamese will be a drug dealer
+ 4.5 out of every 100 Turkish will commit a crime
+ Only 3 out of every 100 Australian citizens will commit a crime, and only 0.3 out of 100 will be a drug dealer.

[mightytiges]

LOL. It's those bloody Romanians and Russians we've really got to watch out for . 

The first link is hard to take seriously as it's based on surveys which are highly subjective and not recorded crime statistics plus the number of respondents to each survey is low so statistically a poor sample IMHO. Any sample well below 1000 gives you dubious stats as the error margin is too high. Statistical errors go as the 1/Sqrt{N} where N is the sample size. So a sample size of only around 100 will have a 10% error whereas a sample of 1000 only has around a 2-3% error.

The second link is stats for foreign-born vs Australian born. Youths born hear with either Lebanese Vietnamese parents or decent would come under the Australian-born stats. There would be a large number of Aussie-born "Vietnamese" now either children and even grandchildren of Vietnamese migrants as the Vietnam War finished over 30 years ago.

In any case 5/100 vs 3/100 is hardly a major discrepancy. If you take a glass half-full view of your stats Razor:

+ 95 out of every 100 Lebanese will NOT commit a crime.
+ 94 out of every 100 Vietnamese will NOT commit a crime
+ 98 out of every 100 Vietnamese will NOT be a drug dealer
+ 95.5 out of every 100 Turkish will NOT commit a crime
+ Only 97 out of every 100 Australian citizens will NOT commit a crime, and only 99.7 out of 100 will NOT be a drug dealer*.

So much for the majority of these groups being a problem :rolleyes.

You've played with the stats Razor to get "Lebanese rape at double the rate of Australian Citizens.". When calibrated out to a 100,000 population yes that's true but in terms of actual attacks, 0.01% were committed by Lebanese-born while the overwhelming majority (70% - 345 attacks) were committed by Aussie-born in Victoria. The Lebanese data (4 attacks) is too small to get a reliable percentage. One more or less attack would significantly change the results by as much as 25%. 

Overall these stats prove nothing in terms of race except to say every group has a small minority of human scum and that poor socio-economic issues are the main contributors to crime; not race.

Quotes from the A.I.C.

"There is no way of knowing the background, including the country of birth, of every one who commits a crime in Australia. A comparatively large number of offences, as research and surveys over the last 25 years have revealed, is never reported to the authorities and as such generate no records of their occurrence. This number is close to 60 per cent of all offences that occur in a community."

"The crime rate of foreign-born population is lower than that of the nativeborn

(Dr Morris, in his written comments to the Committee added an interesting qualification - crime rate amongst recent immigrants was lower than the “Old Australians” in similar financial and living conditions)"

"The crime rate of second generation of migrants is higher than that of their parents’ generation and this rate approximates the crime rates of the native-born population"

Over the five year period arrest rate of no migrant group show a consistently increasing trend. Data also show that migrant groups who display higher arrest and imprisonment rate than the Australian-born come from different regions of the world.

[mightytiges]

Just on Sydney, it's amazing how when authorities finally enforce the law even on so-called petty crime and provide a visible presence these cowardly thugs on both sides are nowhere to be seen.

[tiga]

Razor, In you plethora of stats, where do Collingwood supporters come in? Did they make the Eight?? 

Well we all know there are 3 types of lies....Lies, Damn lies and statistics!


A report on the radio suggested that there are 30 cars and 3 bus loads of thugs heading up from Melbourne for another clash. Probably a bunch of Collingwood supporters wanting to get rid of their frustrations early for the upcoming season. 
Imagine the queues at the toilets when they stop for a pee break. It would give them fond memories of the old Victoria Park days, especially the last half a dozen or so in the queue when they finally get in and see the state of the loo's after 150+ fellow supporters have been through.
Oooops....I shouldn't single out one particular club! Not very PC! 

[Razorblade]

Just on Sydney, it's amazing how when authorities finally enforce the law even on so-called petty crime and provide a visible presence these cowardly thugs on both sides are nowhere to be seen.

Cowardly thugs on both sides?

From what i saw all the aussies rocked up in the daytime, in clear view, if any Lebs wanted to have a crack they didn't have to look very far, IMO thats not cowardly!

What IS cowardly is waiting until nighttime, going around in large groups and destroying cars, bashing and stabbing innocent people and threatening to rape girls!

YET, where are the mass arrests of the Lebanese?

All im seeing is Aussies being arrested, and these new laws are to target australian "rioters", not the Lebanese scum who came out in the dark and commited mass acts of vandalism.

It's also come out that the Police were told to AVOID the Lebanese either Sunday or Monday night (i forget which one, but it was in a news article) and focus their attention on any Aussie's causing trouble!

Where does the problem lie? Ask the NSW opposition leader, who has finally stood up and said that Iemma is being soft on the Leb youth gangs, because his indeded (sp?) to the Lebs because they all vote for him caus he protects them! 

Tiga - LOL! 

That report said hoew greeks, serbs, italians were going up there to join the Lebs, i find that very hard to believe!

MT - In regard to that long ass post about the statistics, i'll reply to that later, kinda busy now!

[Fishfinger]

Where does the problem lie? Ask the NSW opposition leader, who has finally stood up and said that Iemma is being soft on the Leb youth gangs, because his indeded (sp?) to the Lebs because they all vote for him caus he protects them! 

When did the NSW Opposition Leader stand up and say that?
Iemma has been Premier since August 2005. The last NSW state election was in 2003. When did "all" of the "Lebs" vote for him?

[Moi]

This is probably what Raz's getting at, Fish.  Debnam said this stuff in parliament, with not much to back up his comments it seems. 

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,17575445%255E1702,00.html

Opposition MPs accused the government of being soft on ethnic crime gangs, which they said were involved in Labor Party branch stacking.

"The problem is the government has had a softly, softly strategy for 10 years," opposition leader Peter Debnam told parliament.

"Why? Because you're indebted to some ethnic groups. That's the problem."

NSW Police Minister Carl Scully later defended a decision by police not to confront young men who gathered at Punchbowl in Sydney's west on Monday night.

Mr Scully said police had watched the men gathering around cars and talking but had not seen them commit any crime.