Author Topic: Stopping the boats  (Read 65349 times)

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #255 on: September 25, 2013, 08:52:56 AM »

No need for me to comment on this, just read it for yourselves.

Indonesia voices concerns about Coalition's boats policy 'loud and clear'
 
September 25, 2013 - 8:02AM

Ellen Connolly, New York

Could it have been a case of lost in translation when Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop met with her Indonesian counterpart Dr Marty Natalegawa in New York on Monday – or simply falling on deaf ears?

As far as Ms Bishop is concerned her meeting earlier this week with Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Minister to discuss the Coalition's controversial asylum-seeker policy was "very cordial", "positive and very productive".

Yet Dr Natalegawa clearly saw – and heard - it differently, and said he warned the Australian minister against implementing the policy, which he strongly rejects.

Fairfax Media has previously confirmed that the Coalition's plans to turn around asylum boats was unpopular with the Indonesian government.

"We have reiterated that Indonesia cannot accept any Australian policy that would, in nature, violate Indonesia's sovereignty," Dr Natalegawa told Indonesia news agency Antara News following the New York meeting.

''I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," Dr Natalegawa added.

But the message it seems was not heard by Ms Bishop who told Australian media 24 hours after the meeting in New York that they were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling.


"I put to Foreign Minister Natalegawa that Australia will be making changes to the laws in Australia so that we take away the product that the people smugglers are currently selling and that is permanent residency in Australia."

Asked on three occasions to respond to reports that Dr Natalegawa warned Australia not to introduce such a policy, Ms Bishop refused to answer, instead she repeatedly described the meeting as "positive and productive".

"I'm not going into the operational details of our policy but I had a very broad ranging discussion with Mr Natalegawa and I'm confident we will be able to implement our policies."


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/indonesia-voices-concerns-about-coalitions-boats-policy-loud-and-clear-20130925-2ucuz.html#ixzz2fqyA1xBc


Offline tigs2011

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #256 on: September 25, 2013, 09:20:11 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.

The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.

 :cheers
I'm an elitist, should suit me fine.  :clapping

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #257 on: September 25, 2013, 09:21:25 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

You could always just not read what is written.

Rather than resort to veiled insults.

Play the ball not the man.

 :cheers

Please tell me where did I "play the man" exactly ?

And BTW I read the papers, follow the news but at the end of the day we are 3 weeks into a new government. A government that the majority of people voted for so being a democracy we have got exactly what we as a country voted for, just like we did last time with a minority govt. People vote and we get what we vote for

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #258 on: September 25, 2013, 09:33:36 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

Here

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #259 on: September 25, 2013, 09:34:37 AM »

All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.

Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.

 :lol

Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it  :whistle  ;D

Too true.

In this case it is Scott Morrison who is the moron.

 :lol

Wrong again

and here

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #260 on: September 25, 2013, 09:35:08 AM »

All the Tony Abbott lovers have gone quiet.

Starting to realise a few home truths no doubt.

 :lol

Don't know how to bereak this to you but I don't think Abbott has anything to do with it  :whistle  ;D

and here

Rampstar

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #261 on: September 25, 2013, 09:41:02 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

It has only been three weeks and the stuff-ups are starting to mount.

The latest is from Christopher Pyne who is trying to take Tertiary Education back to the elitist pre-Whitlam days.

 :cheers

And so he should every bum gets to go to uni these days which means that Australia doesnt have enough people in the trades. they should bring back the old style technical schools and slash university places and that includes the international students half of whom are complete dimwits.

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #262 on: September 25, 2013, 09:55:38 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

Here

You've got to be kidding! That's playing the man?

Did I verbally attack you? Call you names? Call you a fool? Abuse you?

Don't think I did, actually I clearly didn't, I know I didn't

And if I did they yeah I'd put my hand up and say I played the man but I played the ball because I stuck to the topic and replied to your posts and gave an opinion.
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #263 on: September 25, 2013, 10:05:32 AM »

Maybe the Abbott lovers are just starting to realise what they have done.

 :lol

Err no maybe folks are just wanting to get on with life rather than wallowing in pointless political discussions when a new govt is only just 3 weeks old into a 3 year term

Here

You've got to be kidding! That's playing the man?

Did I verbally attack you? Call you names? Call you a fool? Abuse you?

Don't think I did, actually I clearly didn't, I know I didn't

And if I did they yeah I'd put my hand up and say I played the man but I played the ball because I stuck to the topic and replied to your posts and gave an opinion.

"wallowing in pointless political discussions" is sticking to the topic?

And what about the other two?

One you implied that everyone had gone quiet was because of me.

and in the other you quite clearly called me a moron.

Not that I mind any of this but I find it hard to believe that you weren't playing the man.

 :cheers

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #264 on: September 25, 2013, 10:19:54 AM »
"wallowing in pointless political discussions" is sticking to the topic?


yes I would think it is. I gave an opinion as to why people have gone quiet and that is IMHO people are getting on with things rather wallowing in pointless political discussion when we have a new govt that's 3 weeks into a 3 year term and because most people are simply over it and want to get on with the more important things in life

Quote
And what about the other two?

One you implied that everyone had gone quiet was because of me.


No you have made the assumption - see above

Quote
and in the other you quite clearly called me a moron.

No I did not. You said Scott Morrision was a moron. I said wrong again meaning he isn't a moron

Again you've made an assumption

If I was going to call you a moron I would come out and call you a moron

Quote
Not that I mind any of this but I find it hard to believe that you weren't playing the man.

 :cheers

As I said I wasn't playing the man. That's not how I do things
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Smokey

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #265 on: September 25, 2013, 11:15:56 AM »
How typical of 'reporting' (and I use that term in it's loosest possible sense) by The Age.  This is an abject lesson in how to turn words from something they were into something they weren't, just to get across an opinion.

"As far as Ms Bishop is concerned her meeting earlier this week with Indonesia's Foreign Affairs Minister to discuss the Coalition's controversial asylum-seeker policy was "very cordial", "positive and very productive"."

Nothing about what she took from the meeting, any possible actions or change of policy - nothing - just  "very cordial", "positive and very productive".  And the Indonesian Minister's reply was just as simple after giving his view: ''I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," Dr Natalegawa added.

Later in the interview she (Bishop) denied there was any tension between the two at the meeting. "We spoke very warmly. We know each other well." but that wan't sufficient for our scribe who pushed on.  From all that, the 'reporter' (again, used in it's loosest sense) surmised/observed/interpreted that:  But the message it seems was not heard by Ms Bishop who told Australian media 24 hours after the meeting in New York that they were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling.

Bishop said nothing at all about the contentious (to Indonesia) part of the policy except to say "There can be some misunderstanding as to what our policy is and it is certainly not to in any way show disrespect for Indonesian sovereignty and for anyone to think that that was our policy that would be a mistake.

"Our policy respects Indonesia's sovereignty, respects Indonesia's territorial borders, just as Indonesia respects ours."


and what she also did say was that both parties were in agreeance to put an end to people smuggling (remember the "very cordial", "positive and very productive", and "has been understood well" bits) but no, our intrepid 'reporter' 'reports' that the message wasn't heard by Bishop.  Here's a possibility the 'reporter' didn't consider - it is just as possible or likely that from all the discussions that have already and are about to take place between the 2 countries then it will be modified or dropped as part of a solution satisfactory to all concerned - but I suppose when the 'reporting' becomes 'opining' then all care with facts can be thrown out the window.

Bishop then goes on to say "I put to Foreign Minister Natalegawa that Australia will be making changes to the laws in Australia so that we take away the product that the people smugglers are currently selling and that is permanent residency in Australia." and after 3 unsuccessful attempts to get Bishop to reveal details of the talks, even her explanation of "I'm not going into the operational details of our policy but I had a very broad ranging discussion with Mr Natalegawa and I'm confident we will be able to implement our policies." wasn't enough to deter our reporter from her quest to paint the talks in a bad light.

And if you think my opinion on the quality of her reporting is askew then take a minute to read the article in the Indonesian press regarding the meeting and point out anywhere, even once in the article where it states or indicates Natalegawa "clearly saw – and heard - it differently" what Bishop said:

New York (ANTARA News) - Indonesia has issued a warning against Australia`s plan to implement its policy on boat people, which violates Indonesia`s sovereignty.

Foreign minister Marty Natalegawa reiterated the country`s stance at a bilateral meeting with his Australian counterpart Julie Bishop at the U.N. Headquarters here on Monday.

Natalegawa and Bishop met a day before the opening of the 68th U.N. General Assembly.

"We have reiterated that Indonesia cannot accept any Australian policy that would, in nature, violate Indonesia`s sovereignty," he told reporters after holding a series of multilateral and bilateral meetings.

"I think, the message has been conveyed loud and clear and has been understood well," he added.

The two countries` foreign ministers had met to discuss preparations for the planned visit of new Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbot to Jakarta on September 30.

Natalegawa further revealed that during the meeting Bishop had explained again the efforts that Australia would take to prevent the arrival of boat people to Indonesia.

"He also emphasized that measures should be adopted so that Indonesia`s sovereignty is not violated," the minister stated.

Meanwhile, Natalegawa also reminded that Indonesia and Australia were jointly chairing the Bali Process--a vehicle set up for countering human trafficking.

"There are steps that we can take, but they should be orderly and respect the two countries` sovereignty," he said.

He added that the boat people issue would be part of the agenda during talks between Abbot and President Yudhoyono.

Efforts to prevent the arrival of the boat people and human trafficking are one of the priorities spelt out by the new Australian prime minister at the beginning of his leadership.

As has been reported by the media, Operation Sovereign Borders Australia will carry out various action plans, including sending back boats ferrying asylum seekers to Indonesia before they reach Australia`s shores.

Abbot has said Australia will respect Indonesia`s sovereignty with regards to the implementation of the policy.


http://www.antara.co.id/en/news/90847/indonesia-issues-warningagainst-australias-boat-people-policy

The good old Age, right up there with unbiased and factual reporting.  Any wonder their circulation is dropping abysmally, with crap like that spewing forth they won't be around in another 10 years.


Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #266 on: September 25, 2013, 11:24:13 AM »

We shall see what happens.

I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.

Perhaps you think differently.

Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.

 :cheers

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #267 on: September 25, 2013, 01:01:44 PM »
Hearld sun will be always be around

The unwashed began racist right require some reading

Offline Smokey

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #268 on: September 25, 2013, 01:34:14 PM »

We shall see what happens.

I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.

Perhaps you think differently.

Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.

 :cheers

Do you mean Bishop or Abbott?   Or both?   ;D

Offline 1965

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Re: Stopping the boats
« Reply #269 on: September 25, 2013, 03:32:34 PM »

We shall see what happens.

I for one think it is appalling that such a high profile job goes to such an intellectual lightweight.

Perhaps you think differently.

Mark my words. This is an appalling government the likes of which we haven't seen since the Whitlam era.

 :cheers

Do you mean Bishop or Abbott?   Or both?   ;D

Bishop.

Not sure we have seen much vision from Tony though.

see  http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=12416.msg397147#msg397147

 :thumbsup