Chris Yarran [merged]

[Penelope]

there is though a difference between a player (particularily a lumbering one) not chasing down a player as he runs away from him (not that im excusing it though), and dishing off a handball to a team mate, then literally stop as he tries to find a way through the congestion. no shepards, no running on to take a handball,nothing. just stop and observe as the play unfolds around him like a water carrier caught in the wrong position.

i was flabbergasted and had to rewind the play to confirm what i saw

[Diocletian]

Yes that's also big factor al....though we risk being accused of espousing eugenics....

[Diocletian]

Yeah Grigg use to do exactly that al....hell I've also seen Grigg on more than one occasion run virtually shoulder to shoulder with an opposition ball carrier and point to a team mate 10 metres away to pick him up...fortunately he seems to have eliminated that crap from his game in this final year of his current contract....

[RedanTiger]

Would you notice much difference though if he was in the team instead of Lloyd or Newman?

Not really the right comparison.
Yarran off the backline.

Yarran           180cm     83kg     19/12/90
Houli             180cm     84kg     12/5/88
Hunt             184cm     78kg      5/11/90
Drummond    182cm     86kg     19/1/95
Ellis C            184cm    75kg      9/10/96
McDonough    180cm    82kg      26/1/94
Castagna       181cm    78kg      12/7/96
Arnot             180cm    86kg     21/10/93

All bar Houli and Hunt are younger, McDonough and Arnot probably won't be there next year, Ellis will probably spend his first couple of years off HBF.
And that's only for the two possible small back positions while these take the medium defender spot. 

Vlastuin         187cm    86kg      19/4/94
Morris            185cm    83kg     31/12/88
Conca            185cm    83kg     12/8/92
Petterd          185cm    85kg     24/7/88
Dea               186cm    86kg     13/10/91 
Menadue        187cm    69kg     19/9/96
Batchelor       188cm    88kg     13/2/92

Don't think that a Yarran type - small rebounding defender - is a priority ATM with that much cover although I must admit that he is an attractive option when at his best.
His attitude to me is the biggest problem. After years we seem to have finally gotten rid of the style of only going when you feel like it. Why invite it back inside?

Same applies to Motlop IMO.

[Yeahright]

Would you notice much difference though if he was in the team instead of Lloyd or Newman?

Not really the right comparison.
Yarran off the backline.

Yarran           180cm     83kg     19/12/90
Houli             180cm     84kg     12/5/88
Hunt             184cm     78kg      5/11/90
Drummond    182cm     86kg     19/1/95
Ellis C            184cm    75kg      9/10/96
McDonough    180cm    82kg      26/1/94
Castagna       181cm    78kg      12/7/96
Arnot             180cm    86kg     21/10/93

All bar Houli and Hunt are younger, McDonough and Arnot probably won't be there next year, Ellis will probably spend his first couple of years off HBF.
And that's only for the two possible small back positions while these take the medium defender spot. 

Vlastuin         187cm    86kg      19/4/94
Morris            185cm    83kg     31/12/88
Conca            185cm    83kg     12/8/92
Petterd          185cm    85kg     24/7/88
Dea               186cm    86kg     13/10/91 
Menadue        187cm    69kg     19/9/96
Batchelor       188cm    88kg     13/2/92

Don't think that a Yarran type - small rebounding defender - is a priority ATM with that much cover although I must admit that he is an attractive option when at his best.
His attitude to me is the biggest problem. After years we seem to have finally gotten rid of the style of only going when you feel like it. Why invite it back inside?

Same applies to Motlop IMO.

I was talking about Motlop filling that small forward role instead of Lloyd or Newman.

Motlop   1.85m   79kg   12/3/91 (24)
Lloyd      1.80m   83kg   3/3/90 (25)
Newman 1.83m   81kg   18/5/82 (33)

Age obviously not much difference than Lloyd but an eternity younger than Newman. Newman obviously can go back and play a defensive role (his usefulness can be argued somewhere else) which I don't think Motlop or Lloyd can and probably provides more F50 pressure. Saying that Motlop has them all covered for speed and finding the ball and I reckon you have a better chance of ingraining a defensive mindset in someone like Motlop than trying to turn someone like Lloyd into a fast player.

[Penelope]

yeah as i typed i wondered if someone would twist it into something it isnt.

[RedanTiger]

I was talking about Motlop filling that small forward role instead of Lloyd or Newman.

Motlop   1.85m   79kg   12/3/91 (24)
Lloyd      1.80m   83kg   3/3/90 (25)
Newman 1.83m   81kg   18/5/82 (33)

Age obviously not much difference than Lloyd but an eternity younger than Newman. Newman obviously can go back and play a defensive role (his usefulness can be argued somewhere else) which I don't think Motlop or Lloyd can and probably provides more F50 pressure. Saying that Motlop has them all covered for speed and finding the ball and I reckon you have a better chance of ingraining a defensive mindset in someone like Motlop than trying to turn someone like Lloyd into a fast player.

Sorry about my misread but I still think it's similar in terms of options.

Lennon           188cm    77kg     5/7/95
Ellis C            184cm    75kg      9/10/96
Morris            185cm    83kg     31/12/88
Knights          184cm    84kg     25/9/86
Gordon          186cm    86kg     12/2/90
Conca            185cm    83kg     12/8/92
Petterd          185cm    85kg     24/7/88
Menadue        187cm    69kg     19/9/96

and that doesn't include the others like
Deledio          188cm     89kg     18/4/87
Martin           187cm     90kg     26/6/91
Cotchin          185cm     85kg     7/4/90
Edwards         182cm    81kg     25/10/88
who rest forward.

Paying a high cost - both in trade and salary terms - for an inconsistent small forward who you admit doesn't defend well is not IMO good list management.
When you look at it there is a fair chance that by the end of next year both Ellis and Menadue could be better players than Motlop and Gordon, Knights, Petterd can fill the hole in the interim.

[Penelope]

except for the comment on gordon knights and pettard, i agree with redan.

initially i found the idea of getting motlop tantalising, but I've gone cold on the idea.

theres an good article on the cats website about what scott is trying to install in his game.

if we got him cheap and more importantly on a short term contract fine, but thats about it.

[big tone]

I'd have Motlop in our side in a heartbeat.
He can play forward but more importantly he can play on ball and IMO we are still a couple of first class on ballers short.
He is still young and it means we have 1 less of our average small forwards in our side. (Lloyd, Donuts or Gordon)
The most important thing for us to improve is our small forward spot and he can do that comfortably.
We need to improve our final 5 players picked in our side each week as we are lucky and have 6 A graders that dominate most weeks and get us over the line.
IMO $450k over 5 years is reasonable but I'd really like it if we could swap say maybe Griff and keep our first rounder for another player.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

We don't need a small forward
We have Lids

[big tone]

We don't need a small forward
We have Lids

You don't think we could have Lids continue to play his current roll and have a crumbing forward like Betts play in the same forwardline?

[Yeahright]

except for the comment on gordon knights and pettard, i agree with redan.

initially i found the idea of getting motlop tantalising, but I've gone cold on the idea.

theres an good article on the cats website about what scott is trying to install in his game.

if we got him cheap and more importantly on a short term contract fine, but thats about it.

I think price is the biggest factor as you said. If we could do something like Donuts and a second rounder for Motlop I'd do it. I think small forward is one of our more pressing needs. I don't agree with $450k over 5 years though

[Stalin]

Its scientifically proven black muscle fibers twitch faster hence run faster. But please give me more of the PC goodness

-------------------------
if we are talking about people coming from slave stock, we also have a form of accelerated natural selection and selective breeding

A little from column a

A little from columa b

[big tone]

except for the comment on gordon knights and pettard, i agree with redan.

initially i found the idea of getting motlop tantalising, but I've gone cold on the idea.

theres an good article on the cats website about what scott is trying to install in his game.

if we got him cheap and more importantly on a short term contract fine, but thats about it.

I think price is the biggest factor as you said. If we could do something like Donuts and a second rounder for Motlop I'd do it. I think small forward is one of our more pressing needs. I don't agree with $450k over 5 years though

$450k isn't unreasonable but 5 years is a long time and it's a gamble, but he is only 24. You need to be bold to win premierships and sometime you just have to take that risk.
Hawthorn play 3 small forwards all with real pace that rotate through the midfield. The extra speed would be a great help too.. Motlop would be a great fit IMO. 

[Stalin]

Jack Riewoldt.   Brett Deledio.   Shane Edwards
 Liam McBean.   Tyrone Vickery  . Ben Lennon   

We don't need a small forward
We have Lids

You don't think we could have Lids continue to play his current roll and have a crumbing forward like Betts play in the same forwardline?