One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: 🏅Dooks on November 30, 2014, 08:28:36 AM
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Why are our draft selections after our first selection usually so poor? So many failures or players who look like they may not cut it.
Seriously, do our recruiters not know what they are doing in terms of identifying talent after our first pick?
Here are a generation of picks (28 no less) who today would mostly range in age from 20-28 who you'd hope maybe a third would be able to add some permanent ongoing depth in the senior list at minimum, as well perhaps 2 or 3 would become very handy players:-
2012:-
Pick 31 Kamdyn Mcintosh
Pick 42 Matthew Mcdonough
2011:-
Pick 26 Todd Elton
Pick 55 Matthew Arnot
2010:-
Pick 47 Bradley Helbig
Pick 51. Dean MacDonald
Pick 63 Tom Derickx
Pick 94 David Gourdis
2009:-
Pick 44 Matthew Dea
Pick 51 Troy Taylor
pick 67 Jeromey Webberley
pick 74 Ben Nason
Pick 91 Andrew Browne
2008:-
Pick 26 Jayden Post
Pick 58. Tom Hislop
2007:-
Pick 51 Dean Putt
2006:-
Pick 58 Daniel Connors
Pick 60 Carl Peterson
Pick 73 Andrew Collins
2005:-
Pick 24 Cleve Hughes
Pick 40 Travis Casserly
2004:-
Pick 4 Richard Tambling
Pick 12 Danny Meyer
Pick 16 Adam Pattison
Pick 20 Dean Polo
Pick 52 Dean Limbach
Pick 65. Mark Graham
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Because the bed recruiters find talent deeper than the first round.
Most can nail their first pick.
And omg look at that '04 list of draftees ewww
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It's a massive issue!
You would want you 2nd round pick to be at least a 100-200 game player.
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That's a really bad track record isn't it. Lets hope this year is different.
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Part of that is the compromised drafts
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How's Melbourne going
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Put some other teams up
It won't alll be fairy floss and magic dust
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The Blues are doing ordinary
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Dooks you forgot McBean - The Salmon-Matera hybrid.
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Love how the op trying to corrupt the forum with deception, cleverly leaving out anyone that's actually playing seniors that was a late draft pick.....um Astbury, Batchelor, Newman , Edwards ...where where they all selected ....but hey don't let the truth get in the way of a good yarn :shh
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How's Melbourne going
The issue we have is that club recruiters aren't listening to the REAL club scouts - Diocletian, Craw, ramps, HampspudedAngus. It's amazing what can be detected on you tube ::)
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How's Melbourne going
The issue we have is that club recruiters aren't listening to the REAL club scouts - Diocletian, Craw, ramps, HampspudedAngus. It's amazing what can be detected on you tube ::)
Na the real issue is the recruiters arent doing their job. Why have a go at the posters who merley point this out.
How do you rate the recruiters after the first round in the above time frame, good or bad??
Plus the op was being very lenient imo. eg
04 Mcguane 36
05 Jon 8
06 Edwards 26. imo his record is poor.
08 Vickery is poor for a pick 8 and been largely disappointing, Gourdis was a junior psd pick and thus went straight to the list proper,
09 Griffiths has been mostly horrid, people praising up improvement this yr but his best games have largely still been pretty ordinary. Astbury shown glimpses taken forever and is still establishing himself due to injuries. .
10 Conca at 6 is disappointing and been mostly ordinary. Batchelor very ordinary.
12 Add Ohanlon as a junior taken in the psd,
Mate just because they are still on the list it doesnt automatically make them success stories.
Now go and do the rookie. You would think it impossible to get worse but it does.
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It's all relative, bottom line is we rebuilt during compromised drafts and have made finals in the last two years with a core of stars that are still young.
We could have done better and we could have done worse.
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Give the man a cigar :thumbsup
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Love how the op trying to corrupt the forum with deception, cleverly leaving out anyone that's actually playing seniors that was a late draft pick.....um Astbury, Batchelor, Newman , Edwards ...where where they all selected ....but hey don't let the truth get in the way of a good yarn :shh
Exception to the rule aren't they. Just a small handful of depth players. Love that success rate
Wait til we do the rookie draft it does get worse!
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It's all relative, bottom line is we rebuilt during compromised drafts and have made finals in the last two years with a core of stars that are still young.
We could have done better and we could have done worse.
we could and should have done much better. and no it cant get much worse even the first round picks are over rated or failures.
in the ops time frame from 04 to this draft our 1st round picks have gone.
deledio #1, pass couldnt really get it wrong could ya.
tambling #4 an utter failure.
meyer #12 another utter failure
pattison #16 geezus h Geez.
jon #8 utter failure
riewoldt #13 pass and a good pick
cotchin #2 pass but if he got this one wrong he would have been sacked on the spot one of two standouts.
rance #18 pass .
vickery #8 imo not worthy of a top 10 pick and is borderline as to weather he will even make it, fail.
martin #3 pass was one of 4 outstanding players melbourne took 2 which left jackson to pick between 2 players.
conca #6 not a top 10 player and looks quite average.for such an early pick and for overlooking the obvious fail.
ellis #15 pass though i have issues with the way he plays but thats just me.
vlastuin #9 pass atm but would not want the 2nd yr blues to continue. too early to call atm.
lennon #12 just one season hasnt shown a hell of a lot but way too early to call
ellis #12 too early to call.
thats 15 first rounders and to date i can only give em a tick on 7 of em.
people wonder why have gone the retread path so much well we are forced to because we just dont find enough good players in the nd.
finally there is absolutely nothing to hang the hat on by scraping into finals and getting belted or capitulating. 7th thru 12th means you are a middling team weather you scrape into finals or not.
its not a huge step to go from middling to bottom side just look at us over the yrs.
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Claw, I'm not sure why you're looking back to 2004 or 2005.
FJ joined in 2006 and so let's look from then.
We go from 15 picks to 10.
Now let's remove this years draft and last years due to unproven time frame (your logic not mine).
That's 8 picks and 6 ticks with the other 2 not broken yet.
I'd also like to add that there are 2 AA reps with another 2 who made the final 40 and Rance, Cotchin, Dusty have been prominent in our B&F with Ellis and Rance featuring this year.
Not bad in a comp with 800 players.
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http://www.theage.com.au/afl/late-picks-more-important-than-first-rounders-in-longterm-success-says-draft-data-20141129-11v9ea.html
The real test of a recruiter is the 2nd and 3rd rounds up to pick 40 or so.
We didnt take a second rnd pick last year thats a worry.
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Claw, I'm not sure why you're looking back to 2004 or 2005.
FJ joined in 2006 and so let's look from then.
We go from 15 picks to 10.
Now let's remove this years draft and last years due to unproven time frame (your logic not mine).
That's 8 picks and 6 ticks with the other 2 not broken yet.
I'd also like to add that there are 2 AA reps with another 2 who made the final 40 and Rance, Cotchin, Dusty have been prominent in our B&F with Ellis and Rance featuring this year.
Not bad in a comp with 800 players.
your not sure why i went back to 04. you only need read the opening paragraph. the op set out the time frame i just commented on it.
oh fj joined in 05 by the way. he may have only done the job part time but was one of the two in charge. he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say. but hey jackson was only doing the job part time so it doesnt really count eh. i wonder, one of just two tecruiters but no responsibility eh. greg miller was dalso doing the job part time amongst the many other roles he was doing yet he cops the whole blame.
by the way i reckon this reporter has taken my thunder.
ive argued long and hard for many yrs that jacksons record is pee poor when it comes to 2nd and 3 rd rounders. not so long ago on here i even used the cats and its 2nd 3rd rnd picks as an example of why we fail and clubs like geelong have been so successful.
percentages or no percentages the next best place to find good to very good and even sometimes elite players is in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
if of the top of my head i remember correctly geelongs premiership sides had something like 12 or 14 players taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
we have traded away some 2nd and 3rd rnd picks. 42 a few times on houli and thompson. 37 for maric worked ouit, 28 for hampson but in the main we have kept em and got em wrong.
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2008 ---->. Taylor Hunt.
:shh
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
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Part of that is the compromised drafts
please
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
MYTH BUSTED!
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
MYTH BUSTED!
End of story
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Part of that is the compromised drafts
please
Do the expansion clubs not exist?
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
Someone is wrong and it's time to put up or shut up about how you "know the facts"
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1 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls East Perth Richmond
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1 13 Shannon Hurn Central District West Coast
1 14 Grant Birchall Tassie Mariners Hawthorn
1 15 Travis Varcoe Central District Geelong
thats the facts
is someone fault and certainly not mine
i almost had a heart attack they didnt take hurn. i spose why would we need someone that can hit a dime 70 meters away
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Actually JON is a stand out in that draft, it must have been all about the X factor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_draft
1 Marc Murphy Oakleigh Chargers Carlton
Priority 2 Dale Thomas Gippsland Power Collingwood
Priority 3 Xavier Ellis Gippsland Power Hawthorn
1 4 Josh Kennedy East Fremantle Carlton
1 5 Scott Pendlebury Gippsland Power Collingwood
1 6 Beau Dowler Oakleigh Chargers Hawthorn
1 7 Patrick Ryder East Fremantle Essendon
1 8 Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls East Perth Richmond
1 9 Mitchell Clark East Fremantle Brisbane Lions
1 10 Marcus Drum Murray Bushrangers Fremantle
1 11 Shaun Higgins Geelong Falcons Western Bulldogs
1 12 Nathan Jones Dandenong Stingrays Melbourne
1 13 Shannon Hurn Central District West Coast
1 14 Grant Birchall Tassie Mariners Hawthorn
1 15 Travis Varcoe Central District Geelong
1 16 Richard Douglas Calder Cannons Adelaide
1 17 Darren Pfeiffer Norwood Adelaide
1 18 Max Bailey West Perth Hawthorn
1 19 Courtenay Dempsey Morningside Essendon
2 20 Paul Bower Peel Thunder Carlton
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There was a worse player taken before JON in that draft. Didn't think that was possible. :lol
The team that made that pick hasn't been hindered by it and have made great use of later picks. Without looking probably nailed later picks that very draft.
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Just goes to show that your recruiters are the most important people in a club and that everyone is 100% correct in hindsight
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
Maybe it was Blair Hartly's fault WP. :thumbsup
Everything else seems to be his fault according to you. :whistle
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8 Is Great but 9 is Fine!
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Well somebody's wrong on the JON matter.
Who is it?
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
Maybe it was Blair Hartly's fault WP. :thumbsup
Everything else seems to be his fault according to you. :whistle
Blair wasnt there so can't blame him here
Blair has far too much say on a lot of things that he shouldn't and I stand by my views on him but he is innocent on this one
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Well somebody's wrong on the JON matter.
Who is it?
Agree, how can we be well informed posters with this hanging over our heads
Needs to be sorted ASAP
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Well somebody's wrong on the JON matter.
Who is it?
Agree, how can we be well informed posters with this hanging over our heads
Needs to be sorted ASAP
Something needs to be done. People can't just go around loosely dispensing with the word 'fact' like it's going out of fashion.
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he was bought in to give miller a hand and i know for fact jon was taken over varcoe on jacksons say.
And I know for fact that the above FACT is absolutely incorrect
So I think it is fair to say that someone's "FACT" is wrong ;D
that would be yours. ;)
my info comes from a person on our table . miller really wanted varcoe. he went as far to walk over to the geelong table and talk to them about the selection at the end of the draft.
i mean to say to even have jon in the top 20 was a joke and weather im right or youir right with just two in charge jackson and miller they both need to share the blame. they both would have spoken about jon and both would have had him up there. yet wacko jacko is excused ant involvement because he was only doing the job part time.
it was a horrid effort and a horrid draft.
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Well I guess that's that then
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But is it final?
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Well I guess that's that then
the talk was wallace wanted a rebounding hb flanker so our boys went and got jon and totally ignored a proven performer in shannon hurn.
i had him top 5 that yr. people went off him because they thought he had no upside because of his size. nowdays clubs are looking for the size to go with his kicking skills.
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But is it final?
I have a hunch we will hear more on this from WP. :shh
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Claw is reliably incorrect , my mail was miller watched a Colts game in WA that actually involved paddy Ryder which miller understood to be JON, the rest is history. Claw will deceive and misinform to suit his own argument but thems the facts :shh
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But is it final?
I have a hunch we will hear more on this from WP. :shh
I hope so
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Claw will deceive and misinform to suit his own argument but thems the facts :shh
That's a pretty harsh call Bojo
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that would be yours. ;)
my info comes from a person on our table
:lol :lol
"Our table"
Which table would that be?
And I am very confident in what I know and know we didn't take Jon on Jackson's say
Have heard the same story on how we went about selecting him from 3 different people who would definitely know
So I'll leave it at that
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that would be yours. ;)
my info comes from a person on our table
:lol :lol
"Our table"
Which table would that be?
And I am very confident in what I know and know we didn't take Jon on Jackson's say
Have heard the same story on how we went about selecting him from 3 different people who would definitely know
So I'll leave it at that
yes "Our table" so your happy with your source im more than happy with mine. my source is reliable and he was there.
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yes "Our table" so your happy with your source im more than happy with mine. my source is reliable and he was there.
Thanks for not answering the question about which table. I'll assume you're talking about the RFC table on draft day
Good to know your source was there and is reliable
Mine are reliable too, extremely or so I thought.
Unfortunately not all of them can say they were there so I suppose that makes them totally useless in the reliability stakes ;D
:rollin
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All of this aside I'd be interested in how we came to take JON, WP.
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Well, that's that then
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It's a police matter now.
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that would be yours. ;)
my info comes from a person on our table
:lol :lol
"Our table"
Which table would that be?
And I am very confident in what I know and know we didn't take Jon on Jackson's say
Have heard the same story on how we went about selecting him from 3 different people who would definitely know
So I'll leave it at that
You're both wrong
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You're both wrong
Really?
What a relief :groucho
:rollin
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This is ridiculous. Shut your mouth if you don't know the facts.
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LOL hullo Big Fellow. You don't happen to have rat traps for hands and horses hooves for feet do you? :shh
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"Popcorn, Hot Dogs, Cold Drinks!!!"
Mans gotta make a living.... ;D
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LOL hullo Big Fellow. You don't happen to have rat traps for hands and horses hooves for feet do you? :shh
Are you talking to me? lol :lol
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Why are our draft selections after our first selection usually so poor? So many failures or players who look like they may not cut it.
Seriously, do our recruiters not know what they are doing in terms of identifying talent after our first pick?
Here are a generation of picks (28 no less) who today would mostly range in age from 20-28 who you'd hope maybe a third would be able to add some permanent ongoing depth in the senior list at minimum, as well perhaps 2 or 3 would become very handy players:-
2012:-
Pick 31 Kamdyn Mcintosh
Pick 42 Matthew Mcdonough
2011:-
Pick 26 Todd Elton
Pick 55 Matthew Arnot
2010:-
Pick 47 Bradley Helbig
Pick 51. Dean MacDonald
Pick 63 Tom Derickx
Pick 94 David Gourdis
2009:-
Pick 44 Matthew Dea
Pick 51 Troy Taylor
pick 67 Jeromey Webberley
pick 74 Ben Nason
Pick 91 Andrew Browne
2008:-
Pick 26 Jayden Post
Pick 58. Tom Hislop
2007:-
Pick 51 Dean Putt
2006:-
Pick 58 Daniel Connors
Pick 60 Carl Peterson
Pick 73 Andrew Collins
2005:-
Pick 24 Cleve Hughes
Pick 40 Travis Casserly
2004:-
Pick 4 Richard Tambling
Pick 12 Danny Meyer
Pick 16 Adam Pattison
Pick 20 Dean Polo
Pick 52 Dean Limbach
Pick 65. Mark Graham
Great post
I think, maybe if you gave Lennon, donut, elton, helbig a shot they might show something
Sometimes people play better with good players around them instead of vfl listed spuds
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Why are our draft selections after our first selection usually so poor? So many failures or players who look like they may not cut it.
Seriously, do our recruiters not know what they are doing in terms of identifying talent after our first pick?
Here are a generation of picks (28 no less) who today would mostly range in age from 20-28 who you'd hope maybe a third would be able to add some permanent ongoing depth in the senior list at minimum, as well perhaps 2 or 3 would become very handy players:-
2012:-
Pick 31 Kamdyn Mcintosh
Pick 42 Matthew Mcdonough
2011:-
Pick 26 Todd Elton
Pick 55 Matthew Arnot
2010:-
Pick 47 Bradley Helbig
Pick 51. Dean MacDonald
Pick 63 Tom Derickx
Pick 94 David Gourdis
2009:-
Pick 44 Matthew Dea
Pick 51 Troy Taylor
pick 67 Jeromey Webberley
pick 74 Ben Nason
Pick 91 Andrew Browne
2008:-
Pick 26 Jayden Post
Pick 58. Tom Hislop
2007:-
Pick 51 Dean Putt
2006:-
Pick 58 Daniel Connors
Pick 60 Carl Peterson
Pick 73 Andrew Collins
2005:-
Pick 24 Cleve Hughes
Pick 40 Travis Casserly
2004:-
Pick 4 Richard Tambling
Pick 12 Danny Meyer
Pick 16 Adam Pattison
Pick 20 Dean Polo
Pick 52 Dean Limbach
Pick 65. Mark Graham
Great post
I think, maybe if you gave Lennon, donut, elton, helbig a shot they might show something
Sometimes people play better with good players around them instead of vfl listed spuds
l agree some players just need to be given a chance on the ground. Not this sub thing which is the most stupid thing in football ever. Give the players a go before they lose interest.
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Both McKintosh and McDonuts are turning into fringe thereabouts players. Which probably indicates were getting better at development. Which is a truly great thing fo
r the club. Neitger may make it long term still but McKintosh in particular looks better than when this thread started.
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Would it be fair to say, that whilst JO-N was a complete debacle the Tiges learnt their lesson with regards to player development and acclimatizing; which is to say that D.Martin may not have been looked after the way he has been if not for the earlier failings with J-ON?
Also, I'd say 2 of our best 5 are 2nd/3rd rounders in Edwards and Rance. Still overall agree with the sentiment; just look at Geelong's effort in 2001.
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Rance wasn't really a second rounder?
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He was an end of first round Priority pick. Interpret that how you will. What's really going to bake your noddle is we traded our next pick; 19, to the dogs for Jordan McMahon. Guess who they took?? #GWSskipper
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Word is we would've taken Scott Selwood at pick 19, not Callum Ward.
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Would it be fair to say, that whilst JO-N was a complete debacle the Tiges learnt their lesson with regards to player development and acclimatizing; which is to say that D.Martin may not have been looked after the way he has been if not for the earlier failings with J-ON?
Sorry but I have to ask with regard to JON what are you talking about re "acclimatizing"?
there was no I repeat no issue regaridng him settling into Melb, none at all so I am not sure what you are talking about or alluding too?
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Word is we would've taken Scott Selwood at pick 19, not Callum Ward.
You are 100% correct
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Would it be fair to say, that whilst JO-N was a complete debacle the Tiges learnt their lesson with regards to player development and acclimatizing; which is to say that D.Martin may not have been looked after the way he has been if not for the earlier failings with J-ON?
Sorry but I have to ask with regard to JON what are you talking about re "acclimatizing"?
there was no I repeat no issue regaridng him settling into Melb, none at all so I am not sure what you are talking about or alluding too?
Okay, well I asked the question and you comprehensively answered. Was it unreasonable to query that a Western Australian whom had talent worthy of his high draft pick but never made it in Victoria might have struggled with a lifestyle acclimatization to AFL football? And that maybe the development team have grown since then and given greater credence in acknowledging this as a barrier that needs to be addressed when drafting footballers - hence why they took such care of Martin off field?