One-Eyed Richmond Forum

Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 07:00:51 AM

Title: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 07:00:51 AM
When you look at it, when injury free we should be a contender - at least as a side to be pushing into a Grand Final.
We have genuine quality across all lines - Rance and Vlas across the back 6, Cotchin, Miles and Dusty through the guts and Jack, Lids & Titch up forward.
That top end quality is as good as any other team - these players would be key players in all teams.
It's the best since our last flag.
While it does fall away after that, what clubs doesn't? - apart perhaps from the Hawks
We have shown that we are highly competitive against the best in the competition- beating Hawks, Freo, Sydney and while we have our bogey sides - who doesn't?
My question here is what is missing?
Our ability to stand up in finals and start the season strongly are the missing elements.
While some might argue its list talent, why can't  the same players perform at those key times of the year?
We seem to nail say 16 weeks of the year but struggle in the other 6-8 weeks.
On finals, why can our top end talent rise to the occasion collectively in finals?
Am I over rating them?
Is it the coach?
Is it our culture?
 Logically we should play finals and go deep into 2016 (barring injury to our key players)
Why am I nervous that the opposite will happen ?  :-\
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 29, 2015, 09:32:56 AM
There are many factors.

What i will say is that for every name we say from our list (cotchin deledio martin) nearly every other team in contention could do the same from there team who are arguably better, and who perform when it counts.

I'll add to the list:-

Lack of leadership
Average coach. One dimensional game plan, slow to make changes
Average recruitment. Particularly recruiting solid contesters rather than highly skilled/game turners.
Selection table - reluctance to give games to more quickly develop talent and instead play older top up players (who generally end up being delisted in 1-3 years).
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 10:17:51 AM
There are many factors.

What i will say is that for every name we say from our list (cotchin deledio martin) nearly every other team in contention could do the same from there team who are arguably better, and who perform when it counts.

I'll add to the list:-

Lack of leadership
Average coach. One dimensional game plan, slow to make changes
Average recruitment. Particularly recruiting solid contesters rather than highly skilled/game turners.
Selection table - reluctance to give games to more quickly develop talent and instead play older top up players (who generally end up being delisted in 1-3 years).

The problem that I have with your first paragraph is we continue to perform well in H&A seasons - 3 years has to be a trend and we've beaten top 4 sides and had tougher draws the last 2 years.
So based purely on your first paragraph, surely our star factor is as good as the best, not as bad as the rest?
Of the rest of your post - strong leadership (in finals) - makes sense, coaching - is it being one dimensional or preparation that game plan to withstand finals pressure? I reckon his coaching has improved in the H&A - Hawks win as one example.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 29, 2015, 10:51:36 AM
I don't think it can be assumed that because we beat some top teams during the home and away season that our top 4-6 players are better than the oppositions top 4-6 players for that team over the season, or couple of seasons.

We fall into the habit of reeling names off cotchin deledio martin as if it's some sort of ticket to brag but really history has shown they are par for the course against other contesting teams top few, and seldom win games of their own boots

There are also other factors why we beat top teams which fall outside the top players performing well.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 11:47:50 AM
Perhaps but they play well and generally speaking we end up winning.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 29, 2015, 11:54:26 AM
We are good enough - but we are chokers,  plain and simple
. The pressure of sudden death is too much for this team.

In cricketing terms - we are South Africa at the World Cup.

But we are not Robinson Crusoe....plenty of other teams ( like Port & West Coast ) had similar problems before going on to inherent the earth.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: MintOnLamb on December 29, 2015, 12:50:06 PM
The most telling reason I think is that the players are fed up with team selections, massive case in point the team we selected to play in our 2015 final.

This causes a flow on effect, players are confused when nufties are gifted games.

It also causes disunity within the team and disbelief in coaching staff and selectors.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 29, 2015, 01:35:45 PM
The most telling reason I think is that the players are fed up with team selections, massive case in point the team we selected to play in our 2015 final.

This causes a flow on effect, players are confused when nufties are gifted games.

It also causes disunity within the team and disbelief in coaching staff and selectors.

Griffiths and Conca were gifted that final. North couldnt believe their luck.

Hardwick sees Conca as a Stewie Dew. Fact is, he's younger, slower and plain poo.

Has there ever been a Richmond player with worse skin folds than Conca? I think not
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: MintOnLamb on December 29, 2015, 01:41:40 PM
The most telling reason I think is that the players are fed up with team selections, massive case in point the team we selected to play in our 2015 final.

This causes a flow on effect, players are confused when nufties are gifted games.

It also causes disunity within the team and disbelief in coaching staff and selectors.

Griffiths and Conca were gifted that final. Hardwick sees Conca as a Stewie Dew. Fact is, he's younger, slower and plain poo.

Has there ever been a Richmond player with worse skin folds than Conca? I think not
Newman was a shocking selection as well
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 29, 2015, 01:43:45 PM
oh look...
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 02:14:00 PM
The most telling reason I think is that the players are fed up with team selections, massive case in point the team we selected to play in our 2015 final.

This causes a flow on effect, players are confused when nufties are gifted games.

It also causes disunity within the team and disbelief in coaching staff and selectors.

Griffiths and Conca were gifted that final. Hardwick sees Conca as a Stewie Dew. Fact is, he's younger, slower and plain poo.

Has there ever been a Richmond player with worse skin folds than Conca? I think not
Newman was a shocking selection as well

Selections are an issue, that makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Andyy on December 29, 2015, 06:16:30 PM
Not hard enough between the ears

Not enough leadership
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Chuck17 on December 29, 2015, 06:40:30 PM
Ordinary supporters
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 29, 2015, 07:04:51 PM
Agree Chucky....far too many who accept mediocrity and would be far more suited to following pathetic minnow clubs with low expectations like Footscray, North & St.Kilda than a large & grand club with high expectations a proud history like ours......really are dragging us down those types...
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 29, 2015, 07:14:54 PM
Agree Chucky....far too many who accept mediocrity and would be far more suited to following pathetic minnow clubs with low expectations like Footscray, North & St.Kilda than a large & grand club with high expectations a proud history like ours......really are dragging us down those types...

Exactly
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 29, 2015, 08:07:50 PM
What about the impatient supporters who have an immense dislike of stability ?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 29, 2015, 08:20:12 PM
An absence of leadership and the right attitude to be led.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 29, 2015, 08:53:02 PM
Agree Chucky....far too many who accept mediocrity and would be far more suited to following pathetic minnow clubs with low expectations like Footscray, North & St.Kilda than a large & grand club with high expectations a proud history like ours......really are dragging us down those types...

How would that make any difference
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Francois Jackson on December 29, 2015, 10:28:10 PM
Agree Chucky....far too many who accept mediocrity and would be far more suited to following pathetic minnow clubs with low expectations like Footscray, North & St.Kilda than a large & grand club with high expectations a proud history like ours......really are dragging us down those types...

Exactly

Correct. Chuckster as us usual caught in no mans land.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 29, 2015, 11:17:49 PM
What about the impatient supporters who have an immense dislike of stability ?


Lol
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Rodgerramjet on December 30, 2015, 06:43:58 AM
Mentally weak.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: bojangles17 on December 30, 2015, 10:26:04 AM
There are many factors.

What i will say is that for every name we say from our list (cotchin deledio martin) nearly every other team in contention could do the same from there team who are arguably better, and who perform when it counts.

I'll add to the list:-

Lack of leadership
Average coach. One dimensional game plan, slow to make changes
Average recruitment. Particularly recruiting solid contesters rather than highly skilled/game turners.
Selection table - reluctance to give games to more quickly develop talent and instead play older top up players (who generally end up being delisted in 1-3 years).
if that were on the money we would have failed to even make the finals , our results in terms of games won put paid to nay of that nonsense

its a good question coz with the group we have we should have won a flag or two by the now, half our squad was in contention for AA honours , we chalked up more brownlow votes than all but FREO, whats that say
that our playing list is bang on :clapping , our recruitment is bang on :clapping , our coaching and development is bang on :clapping . our game style is bang on  :clapping
our leadership on finals day was pathetic and requires some forensic analysis :shh
we played a diabolical game yet only just lost :o

Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 30, 2015, 12:46:38 PM


its a good question coz with the group we have we should have won a flag or two by the now

Delusional.

Quote
, half our squad was in contention for AA honours 

Yeah about 6 -7 players were at the most -" half the squad" would be 22 players,moron.

Quote
we chalked up more brownlow votes than all but FREO, whats that say

 That umpires have even less idea about football than you? Haha stuffing Brownlow votes.....

Quote
that our playing list is bang on :clapping

Bullshyte and you know it, stop trolling.

Quote
our recruitment is bang on :clapping

Bullshyte and you know it, stop trolling.

Quote
our coaching and development is bang on :clapping


Bullshyte and you know it, stop trolling.

Quote
our game style is bang on  :clapping

Bullshyte and you know it, stop trolling.

Quote
our leadership on finals day was pathetic and requires some forensic analysis :shh

No shyte Sherlock. Only for the third year running - but hey you keep telling us how all is well.... :shh

Quote
we played a diabolical game yet only just lost :o

Flattered by North's crap goal kicking....still lost 3 goals, not exactly a bee's dick....but you know that too, troll.




Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 12:54:42 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 30, 2015, 01:09:00 PM
If I wasn't in carefree holiday mode I'd be hitting the report button for trolling.

At least Mat073 is constructive. 

Bojo lift your game.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 30, 2015, 01:30:36 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 01:35:55 PM
Yeah only lost 24 games in three years - enviable record....did they give us a trophy for it? Do you seriously think bo's post is on the money? Are you really that thick?

I did enjoy reading Bojangles post ( as apposed to the negative trollop that consumes this forum ) but don't agree that we should of won a couple of flags by now.
I believe we have had the squad to at least make it to a preliminary final - but have choked on the big stage.

The recent Elimination final looked like North kept us in the game with inaccurate kicking ( and it did to an extent ) but no one mentions the fact that a third ( 5) of Norths behinds were rushed.

We blew it this year when we failed to beat Fremantle at the MCG . That game potentially cost us top 4.
We should of won that game.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 01:42:58 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

Let me revise

42 out of 66 - H & A
0 - 3 in Elimination finals.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 02:01:19 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

I would rather we get the trophy for losing 27 games in 3 years ( hawthorn have lost 15 and won a three peat )
Than getting the Newman Silvia cup - an award for sucking the most - I believe Richmond is a leading candidate for playing in only two finals series in 31 years ( in an era of equalisation )
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 30, 2015, 02:05:56 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

In a Home and Away season, what do you think would constitute a good season?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: cub on December 30, 2015, 02:09:46 PM
Above the shoulders, need more of die for the cause 'dustin martin' types.
Unfortunately the afl is going a bit Nancy making it a fine line between pleasure and pain!
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 30, 2015, 02:57:03 PM
Franchised leadership never works.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 30, 2015, 03:07:23 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

In a Home and Away season, what do you think would constitute a good season?

Finishing Top 4 is a good H&A season - plenty of mediocre sides have won enough matches to make the bottom 4 of the top 8 over the years  - it's not really the Everest of Football we make it out to be, regardless if you can't win a final, it's irrelevant......hell, Geelong won two finals in 2008 and only lost one H&A match - you reckon they and their supporters look back on that season with any fondness or sense of pride? What about the year we won 14 matches and missed the finals altogether? Was that a good season?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 30, 2015, 03:32:28 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

I would rather we get the trophy for losing 27 games in 3 years ( hawthorn have lost 15 and won a three peat )
Than getting the Newman Silvia cup - an award for sucking the most - I believe Richmond is a leading candidate for playing in only two finals series in 31 years ( in an era of equalisation )

I would hope people are aspiring to more than just being better than crappy Richmond sides of the past -because if that's all the standard is, we'll never get anywhere....and the reality is that after 6 years, Hardwick and this group, though more consistent, are still yet to have as good a season as Frawley's best season...
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
Diocletian - what year did we win 14 games and miss out ? 

Was it back in the VFL days ?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 04:07:23 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

I would rather we get the trophy for losing 27 games in 3 years ( hawthorn have lost 15 and won a three peat )
Than getting the Newman Silvia cup - an award for sucking the most - I believe Richmond is a leading candidate for playing in only two finals series in 31 years ( in an era of equalisation )

I would hope people are aspiring to more than just being better than crappy Richmond sides of the past -because if that's all the standard is, we'll never get anywhere....and the reality is that after 6 years, Hardwick and this group, though more consistent, are still yet to have as good a season as Frawley's best season...

Disagree . 2015 Richmond is superior to Frawleys 2001 team and has far more upside .
Some people ( like Mick Malthouse) subscribe to the theory that wins ( and ladder position) are not true indicators of a teams ability because of the inequalities of the draw . Percentage is a more reliable measure of a teams worth.

2015 Richmond had the best percentage since 1982.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Diocletian on December 30, 2015, 04:15:27 PM
Diocletian - what year did we win 14 games and miss out ? 

Was it back in the VFL days ?

Sorry - I was thinking it was either '98 or '94 when a we had the same wins as both 7th & 8th but it was only 12 wins...though I swear there was a graphic on Fox Footy months ago of an AFL ladder with us on 14 wins one year but still finishing 9th.....the hosts were even cracking the usual jokes about it...must've been wrong.....though we did win 13 matches 1981 VFL but finished 7th under the old final 5 system....


Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

I would rather we get the trophy for losing 27 games in 3 years ( hawthorn have lost 15 and won a three peat )
Than getting the Newman Silvia cup - an award for sucking the most - I believe Richmond is a leading candidate for playing in only two finals series in 31 years ( in an era of equalisation )

I would hope people are aspiring to more than just being better than crappy Richmond sides of the past -because if that's all the standard is, we'll never get anywhere....and the reality is that after 6 years, Hardwick and this group, though more consistent, are still yet to have as good a season as Frawley's best season...

Disagree . 2015 Richmond is superior to Frawleys 2001 team and has far more upside .
Some people ( like Mick Malthouse) subscribe to the theory that wins ( and ladder position) are not true indicators of a teams ability because of the inequalities of the draw . Percentage is a more reliable measure of a teams worth.

2015 Richmond had the best percentage since 1982.

Of course they are superior to Frawey's side....which is why it's an indictement that they still haven't reached the heights of 2001 in terms of ladder position or finals performance....we are yet to even achieve, let alone over achieve....
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 04:37:14 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

42 out of 69 actually.....but I eagerly await the trophy the AFL will surely be presenting us for only losing 27 matches in three years...have they had one struck yet? When do we get it? Before the round one match? Do you think KB or Richo will do the honours?

In a Home and Away season, what do you think would constitute a good season?

Radical notion - how bout top 4
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 30, 2015, 05:02:43 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

It more so proves that you can't afford to get away to crappy starts at the beginning of your tenure as coach.

You never catch up.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 30, 2015, 05:03:38 PM
He should have been replaced after the first final loss.
That was the accumulation of his best work.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 05:04:00 PM
It proves other sides have attempted a proper rebuild

Rather than topping up a middling list
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 05:06:10 PM
Yes it's dumb luck Richmond have won 42 out of the past 66 games .  ::) ::)

It more so proves that you can't afford to get away to pooty starts at the beginning of your tenure as coach.

You never catch up.

What if you are clearly the worst team in the competition at the start of your tenure ?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 05:07:57 PM
There you have a free pass to lose as many elimination finals as you like

And give your list blocking limp goat mates long term deals
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 05:15:26 PM
It proves other sides have attempted a proper rebuild

Rather than topping up a middling list

Been an impressive rebuild when you take into account it was done during an era of compromised drafts where we were denied the usual access to the cream of the crop.

Gone from "worst team since Fitzroy" to statically the fifth best team over the past 3 years.
Our stars are still easily in their prime , unlike a North who will have 5 players over 32 next year.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 30, 2015, 05:16:36 PM
Why is it always someone else's fault at RIchmond??

Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 05:21:57 PM
There you have a free pass to lose as many elimination finals as you like

And give your list blocking limp goat mates long term deals

Me thinks if Dimma loses another Elimination ....it's bye bye. I even think he would walk.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 05:22:59 PM
Why is it always someone else's fault at RIchmond??

What are you on about ?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 05:23:49 PM
There you have a free pass to lose as many elimination finals as you like

And give your list blocking limp goat mates long term deals

Me thinks if Dimma loses another Elimination ....it's bye bye. I even think he would walk.

That's nice dear.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 05:28:28 PM
It proves other sides have attempted a proper rebuild

Rather than topping up a middling list

Been an impressive rebuild when you take into account it was done during an era of compromised drafts where we were denied the usual access to the cream of the crop.

Gone from "worst team since Fitzroy" to statically the fifth best team over the past 3 years.
Our stars are still easily in their prime , unlike a North who will have 5 players over 32 next year.

Won zero finals
Finished top 4 zero times

Impressive is defined as:  evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill; grand, imposing, or awesome.

One could argue

 - Norf are better than us, the proof is in the pudding
 - they have old players but tey are good at football; unlike your newmans Griggs Chaplins.
 - Maric and lids are critical and will not be around forever with no obvious replacements


There is no prize for being the 5th best, in a game of drafts and salary caps.

Most would say Dimmas first few years were ok.  It's the latter part of his tenure that's the worry
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: (•))(©™ on December 30, 2015, 06:14:29 PM
Success to the RFC is to be mediocre on the field but comparatively successful in finances.

Clearly.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 30, 2015, 06:15:59 PM
Why is it always someone else's fault at RIchmond??

Because Richmond.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 07:51:10 PM
Success to the RFC is to be mediocre on the field but comparatively successful in finances.

Clearly.

Disagree , think that reality only exists in the OER universe.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 30, 2015, 08:12:28 PM
It proves other sides have attempted a proper rebuild

Rather than topping up a middling list

Been an impressive rebuild when you take into account it was done during an era of compromised drafts where we were denied the usual access to the cream of the crop.

Gone from "worst team since Fitzroy" to statically the fifth best team over the past 3 years.
Our stars are still easily in their prime , unlike a North who will have 5 players over 32 next year.

Won zero finals
Finished top 4 zero times

Impressive is defined as:  evoking admiration through size, quality, or skill; grand, imposing, or awesome.

One could argue

 - Norf are better than us, the proof is in the pudding
 - they have old players but tey are good at football; unlike your newmans Griggs Chaplins.
 - Maric and lids are critical and will not be around forever with no obvious replacements


There is no prize for being the 5th best, in a game of drafts and salary caps.

Most would say Dimmas first few years were ok.  It's the latter part of his tenure that's the worry

I think most would say 2015 was the best part of his tenure - beating the Dockers in Perth and Swans in Sydney plus conquering the unbeatable Hawthorn.
He just stuffed it up big time at the 11th hour selecting Conca and Griffiths in that final. He rolled the dice and lost.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 30, 2015, 08:40:17 PM
2015 was another wasted year

2 from the first six including getting rolled by melbourne, doggies

Struggled big time round six vs Norf    Another typical display by the plodders
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 30, 2015, 08:47:04 PM
I enjoyed 2015 for the most part - Demons and Roos x 2 - aside.
These brain fades - selection of Conca and Griffith, kicking into the wind etc are baffling because they are SO unnecessary.
Isn't the game already hard enough lads?
I question Richmonds savvy - we appear naïve as to when is the right time to take risks and then what risk is worth taking.
I'm not as concerned at the list as some are on the forum.
The right talent surrounded by the right leadership and the best development would make a difference
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 30, 2015, 08:52:24 PM
Savvy or professionalism?

Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: cub on December 30, 2015, 09:09:58 PM
Maybe get the membership up even more, worked for the Dawks
Maybe some "supporters" that like to rant on forums and the lurkers etc  put their money where their mouths are, might help?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 30, 2015, 10:26:04 PM
Savvy or professionalism?

I reckon it's more the ability to make a call based on "gut" and get it right.
Stewie Dew to the Hawks in 2008 as one example.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: tony_montana on December 30, 2015, 10:29:59 PM
I enjoyed 2015 for the most part - Demons and Roos x 2 - aside.
These brain fades - selection of Conca and Griffith, kicking into the wind etc are baffling because they are SO unnecessary.
Isn't the game already hard enough lads?
I question Richmonds savvy - we appear naïve as to when is the right time to take risks and then what risk is worth taking.
I'm not as concerned at the list as some are on the forum.
The right talent surrounded by the right leadership and the best development would make a difference

X2 good post
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Andyy on December 30, 2015, 11:40:58 PM
I enjoyed 2015 for the most part - Demons and Roos x 2 - aside.
These brain fades - selection of Conca and Griffith, kicking into the wind etc are baffling because they are SO unnecessary.
Isn't the game already hard enough lads?
I question Richmonds savvy - we appear naïve as to when is the right time to take risks and then what risk is worth taking.
I'm not as concerned at the list as some are on the forum.
The right talent surrounded by the right leadership and the best development would make a difference

Some good points...

Thoughts on our key position & ruck stocks?

Forwards:
Jack - check
Vickery - 50/50 for me
Griffiths - doesn't look likely to me anymore
McBean - who knows? Bloke can't get a game
McKenzie - unknown

Defenders:
Rance - check
Chaplin - slow, bit of a jib one-out (think Nahas) and getting old
Grimes - check, but at 193/88 he's hardly a KPD better as a mid/small
Elton - dunno if he'll make it
Astbury - dunno if his body will hold out/he'll make it
Batchelor - not a KPD despite being used as one

Ruck stocks?
Maric - check, but getting old and less mobile
Vickery - pinch-hitter and looking more forward
Griffiths - pinch-hitter
Soldo - developing
Hampson - knee buggered but can tap well when fit
New black dude - developing


As for leadership, well I like the idea of Rance or Jack being captain followed by Vlastuin. Don't think Cotchin and Lids are hard enough. Martin not right for it.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: WilliamPowell on December 31, 2015, 09:01:33 AM
I enjoyed 2015 for the most part - Demons and Roos x 2 - aside.
These brain fades - selection of Conca and Griffith, kicking into the wind etc are baffling because they are SO unnecessary.
Isn't the game already hard enough lads?
I question Richmonds savvy - we appear naïve as to when is the right time to take risks and then what risk is worth taking.
I'm not as concerned at the list as some are on the forum.
The right talent surrounded by the right leadership and the best development would make a difference

Can't argue with any of that

Though I think our development is a lot better than it was, certainly room for improvement but it has improved thanks to Choco Williams

But for me a lot of it comes down to leadership on field.... disappears too quickly in finals. People can say what about the Sydney game, what about the Hawthorn game in the H&A season but they mean little when you fall apart like we did in the EF.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 31, 2015, 10:08:11 AM
It's not that one team was fresh while the other played the previous week...

It's not that Norf are better than us or have a more even side...

It's da 'leadership' lol
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: tony_montana on December 31, 2015, 10:38:38 AM
More than anything else the EF debacle was lost at the selection table imo.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 31, 2015, 11:31:59 AM
The selection table, the previous week
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 31, 2015, 11:52:47 AM
The selection table, the previous week

Maybe but we'd play Adelaide over there instead.
I reckon that was a 50:50 call although they did run over us in the 2nd half.
BTW, if Norf are so good then how'd the GC smash em by 9 goals last season?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 31, 2015, 11:56:08 AM
Norf are in "no mans land", "middling" side like us, thàt happen to spank RFC regularly

Can't find anyone saying they are so good
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: tony_montana on December 31, 2015, 12:44:25 PM
The selection table, the previous week

No conca no griffiths = win, very confident about that, we were 3 short Ffs and still should have pinched it at the death
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: yandb on December 31, 2015, 12:53:57 PM
The selection table, the previous week

No conca no griffiths = win, very confident about that, we were 3 short Ffs and still should have pinched it at the death

Thirty shots to twenty we should have been belted on the scoreboard but our unusually accurate kicking kept us in the game.

Lets not delude ourselves unless we change our gameplan the next result will be the same against North.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 31, 2015, 01:18:13 PM
The selection table, the previous week

No conca no griffiths = win, very confident about that, we were 3 short Ffs and still should have pinched it at the death

Thirty shots to twenty we should have been belted on the scoreboard but our unusually accurate kicking kept us in the game.

Lets not delude ourselves unless we change our gameplan the next result will be the same against North.

North were the better team on the day but included in their 30 "shots" were 5 rushed behinds .
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 31, 2015, 01:25:06 PM
Norf are in "no mans land", "middling" side like us, thàt happen to spank RFC regularly

Can't find anyone saying they are so good

At least we are not an ageing " middling " team that has peaked .

Age at the start of the 2016 season.

Ivan  30              Harvey  37
Lids.  28              Petrie. 33
                          Del santo 32
                           Firrito  32
                           Waite.  33
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 31, 2015, 01:59:58 PM
Add Wells 31 next year, McMahon 30 and Sam Gibson also 30.
They also rookied Farren Ray lulz
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 31, 2015, 02:08:34 PM
Most of who would walk into our best side
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: mat073 on December 31, 2015, 02:21:02 PM
Most of who would walk into our best side

And by the end of 2017 all will be gone

Meanwhile Jack , Rance , Dusty , Vickery , Cotchin , Vlaustin , Grimes , Miles etc all still in their prime.
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: tony_montana on December 31, 2015, 05:42:33 PM
The selection table, the previous week

No conca no griffiths = win, very confident about that, we were 3 short Ffs and still should have pinched it at the death

Thirty shots to twenty we should have been belted on the scoreboard but our unusually accurate kicking kept us in the game.

Lets not delude ourselves unless we change our gameplan the next result will be the same against North.

Not the point, the game as it stood we were in it up to our eyeballs with a few mins remaining and should have pinched it bc we had momentum. Better selection would have got us over the line as the game stood -  imo of course
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Stalin on December 31, 2015, 05:59:06 PM
Shoulda
Coulda
Didn't
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on December 31, 2015, 07:29:41 PM
The selection table, the previous week
BTW, if Norf are so good then how'd the GC smash em by 9 goals last season?
BTW if Richmond are so good, how'd Melbourne roger us by 6 goals whilst holding us to 6 goals for the day?
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on December 31, 2015, 10:39:49 PM
The selection table, the previous week
BTW, if Norf are so good then how'd the GC smash em by 9 goals last season?
BTW if Richmond are so good, how'd Melbourne roger us by 6 goals whilst holding us to 6 goals for the day?
If you read my OP, I'm actually saying we should be better Kangaroo apologiser !
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: 🏅Dooks on January 01, 2016, 05:37:00 AM
Oh?!
Title: Re: Why aren't we better?
Post by: Hard Roar Tiger on January 01, 2016, 07:48:54 AM
 
Oh?!
:huh