Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 754934 times)

Offline TigerRocket

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5475 on: September 28, 2020, 11:43:05 AM »
Here we are Monday morning, the lies were flowing at the enquire, the avoidance of responsibility continued, and our premier releases restrictions with a possible earlier week flight to freedom. The wonderful news that 127,000 extra workers returning will be from the unionised construction industry, with big sites allowed up to 85 per cent of the normal workforce, and eased restrictions for workers on small projects and at land developments. There can can no longer be any doubt now that this government has no qualms about the 760+ dead and only act in the interests of their Union Directors. They send a deputation of public servants to NSW to seek ways to fix contact tracing and yet almost 4 weeks later no action to resolve the failings. Again I remind you 760+ dead and these collection of incompetents stroke away and hide the truth ..... Daniel Andrews and Chris Eccles Memoirs will be interesting reading when they come out .... let’s hope the Royal Commission puts paid to their careers and places them in Prison where they deserve to be for their Workplace Manslaughter of 760+ people on their watch.

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5476 on: September 28, 2020, 11:47:59 AM »
it would be interesting to know the Vic deaths per capita vs any other developed western country

how do you get workplace manslaughter out of this?

Offline TigerRocket

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5477 on: September 28, 2020, 01:34:34 PM »
You don’t need to go overseas, simply compare it within Australia ... Dans record speaks for itself.

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5478 on: September 30, 2020, 09:17:07 PM »
the turk has spoken.

Adem Somyurek: Why power is deep in Daniel Andrews’ DNA

The fact that Victoria has suffered the worst public policy disaster in Australian history and still no one knows who made key decisions that caused the disaster proves backroom political operators should not be put in party leadership ever again, writes Adem Somyurek.

Adem Somyurek, Herald Sun

September 30, 2020 6:36pm

Premier Daniel Andrews and Special Minister for State Gavin Jennings. Picture: AABeing a minister at the time of the now infamous “creeping assumption” decision to use private security guards in hotel quarantine, I share responsibility for the death of 780 Victorians, the cratering of our once strong economy and the locking down of the entire state.

Not because I was part of a collective cabinet decision-making process, but because I failed to insist the Premier comply with a proper cabinet process.

As the only former minister not constrained by party discipline, it is in the public interest that I attempt to shed light on how we got into such a mess, with so much pain and destruction for so many Victorians.

What is not in evidence before the inquiry is the decision-making processes of the executive and the potential intermediary role played by their staff (particularly the Premier’s staff). Therefore, it is assumed that the executive is captured by the bureaucracy whereas, in reality, the bureaucracy is docile and subservient to the micromanaging and commanding style of the Premier.

Daniel Andrews and I go back a long way, some 23 years to when we were rivals in opposing warring factional camps in the south east. Andrews was a key operator in one of the most brutal factional operations in the party — the southeastern Socialist Left. He was rewarded for his service with an elevation to assistant state secretary and then to a seat in parliament.
 Premier Daniel Andrews and Special Minister for State Gavin Jennings. Picture: AAP
Andrews may be the only hard-core factional apparatchik to have ever become the Premier of a state government in Australia. The fact that Victoria has suffered the worst public policy disaster in Australian history, and still no one knows who made key decisions that caused the disaster, will affirm that backroom political operators should not be put in party leadership ever again.

Until hotel quarantine, Andrews had been lucky — he appeared to be pulling it off. There is good reason why factional apparatchik are not premiers.

They operate within informal, opaque processes, where scrutiny and transparency is non-existent and where written communication is discouraged. Factional operators are more interested in outcomes than procedural niceties. Andrews cut his teeth in this political milieu.

There is a certain degree of leeway that is afforded to reforming leaders with regard to due process in the belief that the ends justify the means. Therefore, Andrews’ crash-through style was mostly accepted as strong leadership — but those in the know always understood the dangers.

These learned reflexes were largely kept in check by former leader of the government in the Legislative Council, Gavin Jennings. He was both Andrews’ mentor and protector.
Jennings believed in the institution of parliament and cabinet government. Jennings understood that due process and collective decision making was there to provide good governance and protection. Andrews on the other hand believed due process was a waste of time and an unnecessary obstruction.

The retirement of Jennings from parliament in mid-March, removed any constraint left on Andrews. Within weeks, by April 3, Andrews had killed off cabinet government with the introduction of a “Crisis Cabinet.”

On March 27, he publicly decreed the use of private security guards in hotel quarantine without any cabinet decision at all.
Given Andrews’ penchant for informal processes, we do not have a definitive answer to the important question of who made the decision to use private security guards — but through deductive reasoning we can come up with a strong probability.
The fact is the hotel quarantine should have come before cabinet, and then the cabinet decision should have been operationalised by agencies and departments. This never happened. It is custom and practice for government policy decisions, legislation and spending decisions to go to cabinet, where 22 ministers, their staff and departments apply a rigorous level of scrutiny to proposals from ministers so that weaknesses or flaws can be identified.

A routine cabinet proposal requires among other things objectives, key issues, risks associated with the proposal, consultation, and stakeholder feedback. A minister taking to cabinet a hotel quarantine proposal with compliance managed by private security would have been questioned relentlessly given the industry’s sleazy reputation.
Ministers and public servants are intrinsically risk-averse, therefore there is very little likelihood that a minister would have taken such a risky proposal to cabinet unless prompted to do so by the leader.

Furthermore, quarantine is a federal matter, therefore portfolio responsibility falls to the Premier unless he allocates it to another minister. Andrews seems not to have done this before the announcement was made to use private security guards which means the ministerial responsibility buck stops with him.
Within government, that Andrews made the decision to use private security guards is not a matter of conjecture. Why he chose to make such a risky decision is a matter of much speculation.
For the first time in his leadership of 10 years, Andrews found himself without the calming guidance of Gavin Jennings. The result is the biggest public policy disaster in Australian history.
In Andrews’ government, everything is centralised and micromanaged, even the most talented ministers lack autonomy and the bureaucracy is cowered by central control. Take it from me, nothing happens by “creeping assumption” in this tightly controlled government

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/adem-somyurek-why-power-is-deep-in-daniel-andrews-dna/news-story/f49d9ad69099ba2cb8bbd5ec88e9e25e
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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5479 on: October 04, 2020, 07:07:05 AM »

Even after a royal commission.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-04/aged-care-royal-commission-covid-government-cop-blame/12725246


Whether the criticism is from the counsel assisting or the royal commissioners themselves, the Government is refusing to accept criticism. Morrison has repeatedly expressed sorrow at the more than 650 COVID-related deaths in aged care, but he won't cop the blame.

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5480 on: October 07, 2020, 06:07:20 AM »

The budget smells like an election budget to me.
Why else cut the jobseeker allowance in favour of income taxes for the well off.


https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/the-whole-budget-in-five-minutes-20201002-p561kv.html




Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5481 on: October 07, 2020, 09:43:30 AM »
I think....I agree with 65 here :shh
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
"Living the dream ,not as a slave to the system. If that makes me a tosser, then I'm a proud tosser... I have plenty of time to toss"

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5482 on: October 07, 2020, 11:15:56 AM »
I think....I agree with 65 here


To quote Scotty from Marketing...


I believe in miracles.

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5483 on: October 08, 2020, 06:15:19 AM »
Dan Andrews' daily press conferences could be deemed as electioneering.

He has shown a calmness and a sense of being in control that has won a lot of supporters.

It has been an opportunity to showcase some of the talent he has in his cabinet. As opposed to the Victorian opposition that is struggling for air time and relevance.

Each day he has to answer a barrage of aggressive questions from reporters. It seems they are intent on making him look bad/incompetent. It has however had the opposite effect. The calm way he handles the daily onslaught shows that he is well suited to the high pressure job that he has as Premier.


Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5484 on: October 08, 2020, 11:01:43 AM »
Ok, normal service has resumed
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
"Living the dream ,not as a slave to the system. If that makes me a tosser, then I'm a proud tosser... I have plenty of time to toss"

Offline Rampsation

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5485 on: October 08, 2020, 11:15:30 AM »

The budget smells like an election budget to me.
Why else cut the jobseeker allowance in favour of income taxes for the well off.


https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/the-whole-budget-in-five-minutes-20201002-p561kv.html

To get people incentivised to get back to work and get a job. I know you lefties support dole bludgers staying on dole bludging off tax payers forever and a day but some of us dont want to fund the lifestyles of the surfy bludgers and socialist hangers on who love just scamming free money from governments. Go get a job you bludgers.

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5486 on: October 08, 2020, 12:20:04 PM »

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5488 on: October 09, 2020, 11:16:47 AM »
There is an old saying dont mess with the wogs. Well done Mikakos :clapping

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hotel-inquiry-releases-mikakos-final-evidence-20201009-p563i0.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0tI9JW9gtVGhSPRDhjph-A4kZwIfMTDRjg_3jVgUOO6CPfRcljT4SJyzk#Echobox=1602195403

Treat with caution': Mikakos turns on Premier in parting shot over hotel quarantine failures

We should be counting years of life lost or savedAdd to shortlist
Ex-health minister Jenny Mikakos says Premier Daniel Andrews' evidence about private security in Victoria's hotel quarantine program should be "treated with caution" in a stinging rebuke to her former boss.

In an explosive final submission to the hotel quarantine inquiry published on Friday, Ms Mikakos says Mr Andrews' decision to "subvert" the usual Cabinet processes may have contributed to the errors made in the ill-fated program and says it is "nonsense" for her alone to be held accountable.

Ms Mikakos resigned last month, just a day after Mr Andrews told the inquiry he held her "accountable" for the botched program that sparked the state's disastrous second coronavirus wave, which has claimed the lives of more than 750 people, cost the economy $12 billion and forced Melburnians into the strictest lockdown in the country.

She said her resignation should not be understood as an "admission of responsibility" for the quarantine program and accountability was shared with Jobs Minister Martin Pakula.

Her claims have reignited calls from the opposition for the Premier to resign and a royal commission to be held, with shadow attorney-general Edward O'Donohue saying: "What it shows is we have a government that is at war with itself."

It would be nonsense ... for the DHHS, and through it, Ms Mikakos, to be considered to be solely responsible and solely accountable for the hotel quarantine program.

Jenny Mikakos' final submission
Ms Mikakos has told the inquiry it is "implausible" to suggest no one made the decision to use private security to guard returned travellers in Melbourne's quarantine hotels.

Lawyers for the inquiry submitted last week that the decision to use private security guards "[was] not really a decision at all" but a "creeping assumption" among top bureaucrats that was not questioned by anyone.

"With respect, such a submission has insufficient regard to the realities of governmental operation and decision-making," Ms Mikakos' submission reads.

"It is respectfully submitted that the Board ought to treat with caution the Premier's evidence where he sought to explain the reference to the use of private security in the hotel quarantine program."

Mr Andrews told the inquiry he could not recall why he made mention of private security in a press conference on March 27 when he announced that international arrivals would be subjected to mandatory quarantine.

But Ms Mikakos said the Premier would not have announced the use of private security if a decision had not already been made.

"In this regard, it is observed that no evidence was led about what briefings were provided to the Premier by his office in advance of that media conference," her submission reads.

Ms Mikakos said the weight of evidence points to an actual decision being made during the course of, or soon after, the meeting of National Cabinet about midday on March 27.

"This decision had substantial cost and resource implications for the state and it is inherently
unlikely, if not implausible, that such a decision would be the result of a 'creeping assumption' rather than a considered choice at an elevated level of government," she said.

Coronavirus: Jenny Mikakos resigns following hotel quarantine failure
Victorian Health Minister Jenny Mikakos has resigned following the state’s failed hotel quarantine failure.

The former minister said that was the only "cogent explanation" for the contemporaneous text message sent soon after the National Cabinet meeting by former Chief Police Commissioner Graham Ashton to his federal counterpart that "our DPC (Department of Premier and Cabinet)" had set up a deal for private security.

Ms Mikakos said the decision not to use Defence Force personnel was inextricably linked to the decision to use private security. She added that Emergency Management Commissioner Andrew Crisp's view that troops weren't needed was "presumably because a decision had been taken to use private security guards".

Ms Mikakos and Health Department Secretary Kym Peake have consistently maintained the hotel quarantine program was a "multi-agency operation with shared accountability".

Jobs Minister 'jointly responsible, accountable', Mikakos says
Jobs Minister Martin Pakula did not escape criticism, with Ms Mikakos maintaining that he shared the responsibility for the program.


Her submission urges the inquiry to find that both the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Jobs, Precincts and Regions were "jointly responsible".

"It would be a [sic] nonsense, it is submitted, for the DHHS, and through it, Ms Mikakos, to be
considered to be solely responsible and solely accountable for the hotel quarantine program," the submission says.

Mikakos blames subversion of Cabinet process
Ms Mikakos said the decision to subvert normal state Cabinet procedures was "the root cause of some of the issues", including differing views about who had overall responsibility and the "cause of the obscurity as to the identity of the decision-maker for important elements".

She also said she and other ministers did not cross-examine the Premier during the inquiry, despite having separate legal representation, as it might be considered "politically disadvantageous" or "improper".

The former minister maintained she first became aware private security were being used in hotel quarantine following the outbreak at the Rydges on Swanston in late May.

She said revelations that she attended a press conference with Mr Pakula on March 29, where he mentioned security arrangements, did not contradict her evidence to the inquiry.

Ms Mikakos maintained she told the inquiry she first became aware and "first had reason to turn her mind" to the use of security guards following the outbreaks.

She was "disappointed" that her department, via Secretary Kym Peake, did not brief her on "significant issues" in the hotels program. But the former minister said those failures occurred in "extraordinary circumstances" where ordinary decision-making mechanism and lines of accountability had been replaced the Premier's creation of the Crisis Council of Cabinet.

The submission says Ms Mikakos had "many responsibilities" for the COVID-19 response, but she played "no role in the critical decision to use private security in the front line, or the terms on which they were contracted. Nor did her department".

"For those decisions, others must take responsibility," the submission ends.

The inquiry, led by former judge Jennifer Coate, is due to deliver its final report on November 6.
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Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5489 on: October 11, 2020, 10:33:43 AM »

The News corporation's campaign against Andrews  is failing.


https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/one-hundred-days-of-andrews-press-conferences-what-do-they-tell-us-about-journalism-20201009-p563lt.html


That said, let me get one thing out of the way. Much of the criticism has focused on News Corporation and in particular the Victorian political reporter for The Australian, Rachel Baxendale, whose questioning of Andrews has been among the most aggressive. This is in the context of a persistent News Corporation campaign against Andrews.
But there is a larger point: The campaign against Andrews isn’t working.

The polls show consistently high levels of support for Andrews’ handling of the pandemic. Baxendale’s questioning may even be working for Andrews. He handles it calmly, so she makes him look good. If this wasn’t the case, Andrews would surely stop the encounters.