One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: big tone on March 12, 2009, 06:19:42 PM
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Have we at Tigerland drafted/invited down to the club (as in before the draft) and developed a decent true ruckman in the last 25 years? Not including recycled ruckmen from other AFL sides. The only one i can think of is Ottens but he seems to have gotten better after leaving us. Do we have a problem in the way we draft and develop ruckmen??
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Have we at Tigerland drafted/invited down to the club (as in before the draft) and developed a decent true ruckman in the last 25 years? Not including recycled ruckmen from other AFL sides. The only one i can think of is Ottens but he seems to have gotten better after leaving us. Do we have a problem in the way we draft and develop ruckmen??
yes but ruckman is one of many issues we have had at our club.
proof is in the pudding re: finals appearances
Benny Gale is our best ruckman by the length of MXMLXV's nose.
Dont ever mention Brad Ottens name again. The weakest player i have seen in my time when he played for us.
He didn't give a stuff about our club and it showed every time he went on the ground
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Do you mean tone like Strawbs O'Dwyer, Ty Elser, Simon Eastaugh, Matthew Clarke, Robert Schaefer, Wayne Thornborrow, Paddy Steinfort, Steven McKee, Ben Marsh and Trent Knobel :help ;D. We sure have had our list of failed ruckmen of the years whether drafted or grabbed from other clubs.
Decent ones like Greg Dear, Justin Charles, Stafford and Simmo all came from other clubs. Benny Gale is probably our only successful homegrown ruckman and he was more decent than a star ruckman. Otto really only had one top year with us. In fact he's probably only had one good year at Geelong also but because that one was their premiership year it's seen as a great trade for them while Meyer is gone and Patto's future is still up in the air.
I think our lack of producing top ruckmen in recent times it's more due to a lack of drafting ruckmen in the first place than poor development. Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman. If you then jump to Putt/Vickery it becomes a 10-11 year gap :P. We've overrelied on Staff and Simmo to carry the load since Benny Gale retired.
At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.
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Benny Gale is our best ruckman by the length of MXMLXV's nose.
It's MCMLXV as in 1965 (long sad story behind the name, RIP Les)
and being part italian I have a fine aquiline nose thank you very much.
8)
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At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.
Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by
How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???
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Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.
MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).
With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.
But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.
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Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by
How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???
Good point while you wouldn't knock back a top class one I don't think they are essential to modern day football. A half decent ruck that can push forward and be a tall option in the forward line is probably sufficient.
An elite midfield will always make any ruckman look half decent.
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Apart from Cox, Sandilands and Hill, the rest of the Ruckman going around are really not much better than our lot so we are not the only ones struggling in their search for an elite Ruckman. A few of the younger guys going around may surprise this season but as a rule I think that the league overall is struggling to find high quality Ruckman. This may not be the case in 2 or 3 years though...Kruezer, Naitanui, Vickery, Warnock, Bellchambers etc...
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With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.
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With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.
Whats new Ramps??
Since i have been supporting this team i am yet to find a player who kicks like a Nathan Buckley from 50 metres out, both sides of the feet.
Closest is Lids and he is a gun.
Our biggest problem is our disposal.
Ill keep reverting back to an interview i heard a few years with Al Clarkson. "If you cant kick you ill not be in our team" Whilst they dumped average duds like Vandeburg and Zac Dawson we continually allow players who cant kick or hold a tackle senior gigs.
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With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.
Whats new Ramps??
Since i have been supporting this team i am yet to find a player who kicks like a Nathan Buckley from 50 metres out, both sides of the feet.
Closest is Lids and he is a gun.
Our biggest problem is our disposal.
Ill keep reverting back to an interview i heard a few years with Al Clarkson. "If you cant kick you ill not be in our team" Whilst they dumped average duds like Vandeburg and Zac Dawson we continually allow players who cant kick or hold a tackle senior gigs.
:sleep
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Apart from Cox, Sandilands and Hill, the rest of the Ruckman going around are really not much better than our lot so we are not the only ones struggling in their search for an elite Ruckman.
Not sure about that Tiga, here's a quick list of other clubs ruckmen i think are better than our back-up ruckmen (at the moment) like them or not-
Fraser, Jolly, Ottens, Lade, Brogan, Paul Johnson, McIntosh, King, Charman, Campbell, Blake, Minson, Hudson, Jamar, Wood, Seaby, Gardiner, Simon Taylor, Renouf and on and on.
Lets not kid ourselves!
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At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.
Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by
How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???
Brisbane had Mr September Clark Keating plus MacDonald (sp?) and Charman, while Sydney had Ball, Jolly with Goodes pinchhitting. The Swans missed Ball in their losing 2006 GF after he retired. Port had Brogan and Lade, West Coast had Cox and Geelong had King and Ottens in 2007 but were weaker last year with Blake instead of King. I guess it depends what you mean by better than average. IMO the first ruck has to be quality and the second better than average. Grant Thomas cost the Saints a flag with his stubborn "I don't rate ruckman" dogma. Of course you do need a top class and deep midfield as well as you say Gracie.
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Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.
MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).
With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.
But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.
That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time :scream. Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.
Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby :help.
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Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.
MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).
With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.
But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.
That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time :scream. Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.
Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby :help.
Its getting to the stage, where you almost have to decide that what we have in terms of ruck is what we have and that we should wait 2 or 3 years so the young blokes we have develop rather than wasting a seriously high pick on another clubs ruckman in the trade period.
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Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.
MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).
With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.
But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.
That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time :scream. Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.
Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby :help.
Its getting to the stage, where you almost have to decide that what we have in terms of ruck is what we have and that we should wait 2 or 3 years so the young blokes we have develop rather than wasting a seriously high pick on another clubs ruckman in the trade period.
Agree Ramps although I won't be surprised if we have another look at Seaby at the end of the year (he'll be out of contract) if our young blokes prove to be not ready yet. Now that's not what I want us to do but the club may still look out for a cheap mature 2nd ruckman if they think we still need one temporarily until the ruck cubs develop. Best scenario of course is Browne and/or Gus showing enough this year as 2nd ruck to help out Simmo then that would solve the ruck problem instantly :pray.
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Ok, most people have answeed one part of my question about recruiting ruckmen, now it's time to hear your thoughts on the other part. Do we as a club develope our ruckmen well enough?
Weather it be recycled guys or young guys. It seems to me over a long period of time we get these guys in but they don't make it for one reason or another. Is it our ruck coaches? Are they good enough? Do we need to look elsewhere for other, more educated people? Do we need to spend more time and money to become better at this part of our coaching? Maybe it's time to stop getting overweight old ruckmen that were not even that good in there day, coaching our future ruckmen. I think it's time to stop hoping and start doing everything in the clubs powers to get our ruckmen to where the other teams are at.
To me, the answer is simple!
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Too early to judge on the development issue for mine as far as our young ruckmen go.
Patto 23
Gus 21 going on 22
Putt 19
Vickery 18
Browne 18
Most rucks don't hit their peak until their mid-late 20s.
The problem at Richmond IMHO has been a lack of young developing ruckmen plus a too thin (crap) midfield at the feet of the older ones we've had over the years. You can't really fault Simmo while he's been at Punt Rd. He's no great tap ruckman but he's been worth that 5 year contract we gave him.
Not a fan of Monkhurst BT?
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Jeff White in today's Herald-Sun praises Simmo as a ruckman who has adapted as footy has become more a running game....
"You've got to be able to run. You've got to become an extra midfielder when you're not doing the ruck work," he said.
"It's a running game. That's why Cox has been so successful. He averages 19 possessions (22 in 2008). He's the stand-out among the current ruckmen."
White ... warned that those who did not adapt would flounder.
He said Hille, Ottens, Brendon Lade and Darren Jolly had stepped up their work rate in the past couple of years.
" .....Troy Simmonds is still up there, too."
Full article at:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25197367-19742,00.html
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Too early to judge on the development issue for mine as far as our young ruckmen go.
Patto 23
Gus 21 going on 22
Putt 19
Vickery 18
Browne 18
Most rucks don't hit their peak until their mid-late 20s.
The problem at Richmond IMHO has been a lack of young developing ruckmen plus a too thin (crap) midfield at the feet of the older ones we've had over the years. You can't really fault Simmo while he's been at Punt Rd. He's no great tap ruckman but he's been worth that 5 year contract we gave him.
Not a fan of Monkhurst BT?
Must admit i don't really know anything about Monky's coaching, but we don't really have ruckmen lining up for spots in our side. He has about 1 million dollars of our product in his hands i and i just can't help but think a part time position coaching our young up-and- coming stars a little light on.
Also about your point about ruckmen peaking in their mid to late 20s, do we give our guys 7 to 10 years on our list before they become any good? Maybe this is why we have drafted recycled guys in the past, but once again i think it comes back to our development of these guys. No easy answer but something has to happen soon to help poor old Simmo.
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Must admit i don't really know anything about Monky's coaching, but we don't really have ruckmen lining up for spots in our side. He has about 1 million dollars of our product in his hands i and i just can't help but think a part time position coaching our young up-and- coming stars a little light on.
Also about your point about ruckmen peaking in their mid to late 20s, do we give our guys 7 to 10 years on our list before they become any good? Maybe this is why we have drafted recycled guys in the past, but once again i think it comes back to our development of these guys. No easy answer but something has to happen soon to help poor old Simmo.
Nah BT I didn't mean you wait 7-10 years to find out if they are any good at all although talls will be persisted with longer than smalls at all clubs. It's just that it can take that long before ruckmen even the best ones to reach their absolute peak. They can be decent enough to play even as a 2nd ruckman before then but they won't reach their best to take over the 1st ruckman mantle until their mid-late 20s. Think of 26 y.o. Campbell at Hawthorn who was second banana under Everitt until the last two years and the Hawks still brought in a mature 2nd ruck Taylor so a Renouf or Bailey (who did his knee) weren't thrown to the wolves if Campbell had gone down. That's why you shouldn't have long gaps between drafting a young ruckman as we did at Richmond :scream. They take time to develop. We are still catching up from past recruiting mistakes at the start of this decade.
1st ruck is the last one position that hasn't become a young man's game.
Lade - 32
Brogan - 30
Hudson - 30
King - 30
Simmonds - 30
Ottens - 29
Cox - 27
Fraser - 27
Hille - 27
Campbell - 26
Sandilands - 26
As for AFL ruck coaches - all of them that I know of are part time. The proof will be in the pudding but Monky is at every training session and at least he was a full-time 1st ruck as a player for a number of years so he comes with experience and knowledge of the position. A premiership player too. That's not always been the case at Richmond as far as ruck coaches.
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One of our ruck coaches under Fraudley didn't even play in the ruck when he played AFL
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So during the past two drafts now I have been calling for another ruckman to be picked up, either by trade, free agency (this year) or in the draft.
I was hounded down for making this call because apparently we have coverage.... :P however it now appears al lot of posters on this forum are the same ones coming out saying that we are screwed without Maric... :whistle REALLY!!!!!
The RFC must, next year, aggressively persue a decent to very good ruckman or we wil be faced with this problem for years. Most clubs now have 2 VG rucks in their side.
If the big O does not come up with the goods this year... :-\
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The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.
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The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.
Maybe not, most teams play with #1 & #2 rucks, if the Eagles can keep NIc & Cox, surely we could lure another one accross..
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The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.
Maybe not, most teams play with #1 & #2 rucks, if the Eagles can keep NIc & Cox, surely we could lure another one accross..
I believe they are banking on TV being that #2 ruck you have defined in your example.
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i cant recall anyone saying our ruck stocks were covered.
As JVT said, it is hard to lure another ruckman when you have an established ruckman. To do so you he needs to be able to hold down another position on the ground in his own right. Otherwise, good luck convincing someone who can actually play to come across just to rot away at coburg.
In reality these things are bit more difficult than you experience playing supercoach and such.
we did draft a ruckman last draft, but yeah, he's a few years away.
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I said it all summer and I'll keep saying it - the ruckman is the last piece of the premiership puzzle that we need and we don't really need him this year because the club will know that we aren't a realistic chance at a flag. Next year is a whole different ballgame and I'll bet you London to a brick they already have someone in mind who will be coming off contract at season's end (another reason they didn't chase anyone up this season and went instead with a cheap stop-gap measure in Stephenson).
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Thought Derrickx showed a bit on the weekend. Seemed to work into the game well, Took a good grab late on.
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Thought Derrickx showed a bit on the weekend. Seemed to work into the game well, Took a good grab late on.
Isn't the answer, may be the bloke that rots away at Coburg for a 'just in case' scenario when Stephenson gets the flick.
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Would love Rance to offer Zac Clarke some of those scooter rides.
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Thought Derrickx showed a bit on the weekend. Seemed to work into the game well, Took a good grab late on.
Wasn't at all impressive IMHO.
As much as I love Vlastuin, I was oh so keen on Brodie Grundy for exactly this reason!
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Surely we have to be better off now than the days where we used to throw Tucky into the ruck. Stephenson and Derrickx may not be the long term answer but they will fill a hole until the likes of Elton and McBean develop. Thinking out of the box, how about Griff as a possible Paddy Ryder mobile type of Ruckman? He's 4cm taller than Paddy and 12kg's heavier so he has the build for it as long as he is over his shoulder troubles.
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i cant recall anyone saying our ruck stocks were covered.
Go dig up the thread I started regarding ruckmen, enjoy the read.. :thumbsup..I can't find it.
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i cant recall anyone saying our ruck stocks were covered.
Go dig up the thread I started regarding ruckmen, enjoy the read.. :thumbsup..I can't find it.
I know a lot of us had concerns in the ruck area, but don't recall anyone saying it was covered either.
For someone to think we had the area covered with Angus and Browne there . . . they would have to hold either of those 2 in high regard, which would narrow down the search. :P
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Derricx was embarrassing on the weekend, Currie flogged him. He jumped too early, didn't jump at all or put his arms up to protect himself.
How in gods name we kept him and let Post go is beyond me
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
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Derricx was embarrassing on the weekend, Currie flogged him. He jumped too early, didn't jump at all or put his arms up to protect himself.
How in gods name we kept him and let Post go is beyond me
We let post go because he was not up to AFL standard. This decision was also validated by the lack of interest shown in him by other clubs. Post also had a much longer time and many more opportunities to prove himself than Derrickx has. Lets just see how he goes this year and if he fails to lift, then its park footy for him also.
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
WAT that whole page read like a Coach Davey fishing expedition that would make Rex Hunt proud. He only used to confess his love of the Beefcake just to get people revved up.
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
:lol so Im supposed to read 20 pages just to try to find evidence of a claim you made?
are you now suggesting that I said our ruck stocks are covered?
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
WAT that whole page read like a Coach Davey fishing expedition that would make Rex Hunt proud. He only used to confess his love of the Beefcake just to get people revved up.
Even to his last post on page 20 :lol, but one poster on page 20 said we have a "plethora" of ruckmen/forwards... :o
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
:lol so Im supposed to read 20 pages just to try to find evidence of a claim you made?
are you now suggesting that I said our ruck stocks are covered?
:lol go to page 20...
NO, or I would have said that.... :-*
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ;D....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy.. :thumbsup
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do you want to find real ones that back up what you say or just ones that you can use one sentence out context?
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
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do you want to find real ones that back up what you say or just ones that you can use one sentence out context?
;D :-*
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
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I agree with the comments that Gale is probably our best ruckman in recent years that we developed. I also thought Ottens was good as well. Both started off in the forwardline and both were good at taking contested grabs. All our good ruckman have been able to take contested grabs eg Stafford and Maric. We are a team that does well when we have a ruckman who can take contested grabs. Our improvement with Maric on board has been significant.
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
Agreed Maric is it in terms of ruckman
O.S is our next best but hardly developing when he is 30 years of age.
I dont want to hear that spud's Derickx name mentioned again. He is useless and im not talking about the GC game.
He cant play anywhere on the field, except warming the bench.
Vickery is mobilish though. Can play forward and ruck. Not defence.
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Vickery is agile for a man of his size.
Elton, mcbean, Griffin are.mobile ruckman sized , also.
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ;D....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy.. :thumbsup
How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??
All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!
Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!
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its probably been said on this thread but you cannot develop young ruckmen if you dont have em.
since ottens who was a damn fine ruckman imo, taken in 97 at pick 2 we have used just 4 nd picks on young ruckmen up to mcbean last yr.
pattison was not a ruckman he was a chf who was tried as a ruckman in desperation. his lack of pace and agility meant ruck is where he ended up.
the four nd picks we have used on ruckmen in the last 15yrs since ottens are
2007 putt pick 51. it took 10 yrs to actually take a young ruckman in the nd.
2008 vickery pick 8. is he now a ruckman or potential #1, or a key forward who pinch hits in the ruck..
2010 derickx pick 63 as a 23yo mature recruit.
2012 mcbean pick 33 as a 18 yr old. even mcbean has questions about weather he will end up a ruckman or kpp.
the failure to actually take young ruckmen and develop them has meant every 4 or 5 yrs we are looking to take mature rejects from other clubs some of whom work out and others who dont.
we have failed to use good picks on young ruckmen but have then generally failed to at least load up with late nd and rookie picks on them in an attempt to find a good one. we all know theres a high fail rate with late nd and rookie picks.hence the need to load up with those type of picks if you dont use early picks to get em.
mature rucks and places we have taken them are.
2001 stafford pick 17nd 28yo what a joke. we had just ottens all australian and gale in 2001 with gale near the end. but why not two kids even as rookies plus a bit of cheap backup for ottens.
2004 marsh psd 28yo. in 2004 the list contained just ottens marsh and stafford. again where are the kids.
2004 simmonds player trade 26/27yo?. ottens went to geelong. we cut marsh, and we bought in simmonds and knobel but no kids.on the list simmonds knobel and a shot and old stafford
2005 knobel psd 25yo
2010 derickx nd 63 23yo.
2011 maric pick 37 26yo. the list contained graham browne vickery derickx. the rucks had been soo neglected we had take amaric we had no real choice.
rookies
2006 graham 18yo
2008 cartledge 23yo
2009 browne 18yo
2013 stephenson 30yo
ssince the inception of the rookie draft in 97 we have used just 4 rookie picks on ruckmen yet in the main we refuse to use decent picks on them in the nd. two of those picks were on mature rrookies.
anyway this is all old hat ive been over this that many times its not funny. people wonder why i go on about list management.
if i was assesing our ruck stocks as of this moment
stephenson 30 yo. imo we went the wrong way in taking such an old player who is clearly nothing more than a battler. short term and would plan for him not being here after a yr or two.
maric 27yo is realistically a short/med term prospect. would want at least two young ruckmen in development now for when his demise comes.
derickx 25yo based on what ive seen of him at the level he wont make it and would be planning for this scenario.if they think he will make it why go get a 30 yr old.
vickery 23yo? i dont see him as a pure first ruck. hes a for / ruck and hes been developed that way
mcbean 18yo he has the height to play ruck but will he be one with his frame. he will never be a crash bash ruckman in the jolly or maric mould thats for sure. like vickery a kpp/ruck.
its very concievable that we actually have just one first ruckman on our list and hes 27. we certainly only have one crash bash type.
we probably have two kpps/rucks one in development vickery one a junior mcbean.
would be looking to firstly cut stephenson and derickx.
target a young ruckman of the right type with a good early pick. would also be looking to take a backup ruckman around 22 - 24 yrs like jack hannath. id even go so far as to rookie one as well.
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah
in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.
vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.
this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.
in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a 27yo.
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Claw, perhaps in the past it has no so much been the process but the application we have got wrong.
most ruckmen wont come good until 23-25, so thats a lot of time you lock up a list spot and resources on someone that may or may not make it.
Of the last 10 premiership ruckmen, 5, or half were poached from other clubs.
brogan was recruited as a succeful baskeballer at age 24.
Cox, campbell blake and fraser were the four drafted by the club they played with.
Cox and Blake were rookies.
Blake was taken under the father son at 38, and it was only because ottens had his year ruined by injury he was even there.
Fraser is the only one drafted early - pick 1- and developed by the club.
History seems to show that except for the standouts that go real early, and they are relatively rare, early picks are probably better used on players that don't have such a long development period.
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ;D....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy.. :thumbsup
How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??
All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!
Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!
McBean wasn't with us when you said it... :thumbsup
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah
in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.
vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.
this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.
in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a 27yo.
So you admit we have more than one ruckman
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ;D....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy.. :thumbsup
How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??
All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!
Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!
McBean wasn't with us when you said it... :thumbsup
Ummmmmm, yes he was :wallywink Just incase you weren't aware the National Draft was on the 22nd of November :whistle
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ;D....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy.. :thumbsup
How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??
All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!
Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!
McBean wasn't with us when you said it... :thumbsup
Ummmmmm, yes he was :wallywink Just incase you weren't aware the National Draft was on the 22nd of November :whistle
I knew that.. :lol :cheers
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Well, that answers one question then.
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Well, that answers one question then.
Why are we reading this thread? :lol
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah
in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.
vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.
this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.
in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a 27yo.
So you admit we have more than one ruckman
did i ??? you sure.
lol its seems your incapable of understanding the debate. it is not how many rucks but quality and type.
you can have 20 potential ruckmen in name but if only one is capable of playing 1st ruck at the level, you effectively only have one 1st ruck.
we may well have 5 ruckmen but we sure are in dire need of more.
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is this the one you are talking about?
the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....
Thats actually pretty accurate ^
I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.
If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah
in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.
vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.
this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.
in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a 27yo.
So you admit we have more than one ruckman
did i ??? you sure.
lol its seems your incapable of understanding the debate. it is not how many rucks but quality and type.
you can have 20 potential ruckmen in name but if only one is capable of playing 1st ruck at the level, you effectively only have one 1st ruck.
we may well have 5 ruckmen but we sure are in dire need of more.
Lol. My point was we have more than one ruckman, no one mentioned decent and someones prattling on about another poster for posting we had more than one as if he was wrong, but he wasnt. Keep up with the program
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
WAT that whole page read like a Coach Davey fishing expedition that would make Rex Hunt proud. He only used to confess his love of the Beefcake just to get people revved up.
Even to his last post on page 20 :lol,
Not sure Angus was on our list in December ;D
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Well, that answers one question then.
Why are we reading this thread? :lol
In the off chance we get to see your avatar?
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Interesting reading here then.....
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=16767.30
OK read the page you linked to. How many pages do I have to read to find someone say our ruck stocks are covered?
Read it all, I didn't stop on that page for any reason, there are even some special comments in there from al, the player expert... :lol :thumbsup
WAT that whole page read like a Coach Davey fishing expedition that would make Rex Hunt proud. He only used to confess his love of the Beefcake just to get people revved up.
Even to his last post on page 20 :lol,
Not sure Angus was on our list in December ;D
Said it before, still think we should of kept Gus, too late now...must focus on a decent ruckmant next year!!
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In terms of skill, Gus would be our second best ruckman, but there is a minimum standard that must be met in terms of commitment, or 'heart', for lack of a better word, and Gus did not meet that standard after being given multiple chances to lift. Lost the respect of his teammates and wouldnt work hard enough to restore it. Had to go. If he turns it around at Adelaide, good luck to him, but he'd shown little respect for the Richmond jumper too many times.
The reverse of this is that blokes that always go 100% but are poo are still on the list. I think we all know who they are :scream ;D
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Well said, Gerks.
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The future of ruckmen lies in big Africans that can run and jump.
We best recruit some soon.
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Experimenting with basketballers as potential ruckman needs to keep happening. Trying to train a Matt Dea type into a dime a dozen HBF is a waste of time, but ruck has evolved and I'm all for trying out a few beanpoles from the vbl. For example as Ox so eloquently described there are a bunch of young African guys playing at Waverly at the moment. Or use the international rookies on a ruck.
Ruck is where the game starts. It's the first opportunity to influence the game. I like Grant Thomas but he is a fool on this topic.
I know the basketball experiment overall has not really produced anything spectacular (I don't think basketball can claim NicNat, even though he looks like he would be awesome) but the ruck is one area worth persevering with.
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I agree DC. I think from memory Dean Brogan was a basketballer first?
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yep, won an NBL championship
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Pinhead Patton was a basketballer, only really got ino his footy a couple of years ago. His Brother plays collage basketball in the states........
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So for the 3rd year in a row there are ruckmen available during the trade period, will we pursue them with vigor for a change or will we do what we have done for the past 3 years, sit back and watch them go to other clubs.
If we don't pick up another ruckman I have a feeling it will come back to bite us, particularly around finals time if Maric goes down. Stephenson is not the answer and other than him we have no one....one of our weakest areas for mine.
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
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Should look at Sandilands younger brother. Overlooked last year, he will be a monster.
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer. Other clubs keep their ruck stocks topped up every year, they always have two main ruckmen in the side (most teams) and another back up, we have one with Stephenson who is really on the way out, I wouldn't expect a big year out of him.
Is that adequate enough for you??
Think you missed my point. :wallywink
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer. Other clubs keep their ruck stocks topped up every year, they always have two main ruckmen in the side (most teams) and another back up, we have one with Stephenson who is really on the way out, I wouldn't expect a big year out of him.
Is that adequate enough for you??
Think you missed my point. :wallywink
2008 - Vickery
2010 - Derickx
2011 - Maric
2012 - Stephenson, McBean
We've been taking 1 each year for 3 years now and will be taking at least another one this year for sure. I been spruiking for years that it's the last piece of the puzzle we need to fill and the time is almost right to do that but it's not right to say we've only picked up 1 ruckman in over 3 years.
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In fairness to the walrus, McBean played TAC Cup at CHB & CHF didn't he? Since being recruited he has played as a full time forward. Derickx isn't a ruckmans arse so there's another one. ;D But I suppose he does play there ;D
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer. Other clubs keep their ruck stocks topped up every year, they always have two main ruckmen in the side (most teams) and another back up, we have one with Stephenson who is really on the way out, I wouldn't expect a big year out of him.
Is that adequate enough for you??
Think you missed my point. :wallywink
2008 - Vickery
2010 - Derickx
2011 - Maric
2012 - Stephenson, McBean
We've been taking 1 each year for 3 years now and will be taking at least another one this year for sure. I been spruiking for years that it's the last piece of the puzzle we need to fill and the time is almost right to do that but it's not right to say we've only picked up 1 ruckman in over 3 years.
C'mon Smokey, that's not on the money mate!!! Vickery is more a forward/relief ruckman. Forget Derickx he is not a decent ruckman and never was. Stephenson is a short term ruckman, McBean is a forward.
Let me put it like this, when have we or are we going to target a KPP ruckman, a big name ruckman, a young named ruckman?? We need to fill this gap and we haven't.
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer. Other clubs keep their ruck stocks topped up every year, they always have two main ruckmen in the side (most teams) and another back up, we have one with Stephenson who is really on the way out, I wouldn't expect a big year out of him.
Is that adequate enough for you??
Think you missed my point. :wallywink
2008 - Vickery
2010 - Derickx
2011 - Maric
2012 - Stephenson, McBean
We've been taking 1 each year for 3 years now and will be taking at least another one this year for sure. I been spruiking for years that it's the last piece of the puzzle we need to fill and the time is almost right to do that but it's not right to say we've only picked up 1 ruckman in over 3 years.
C'mon Smokey, that's not on the money mate!!! Vickery is more a forward/relief ruckman. Forget Derickx he is not a decent ruckman and never was. Stephenson is a short term ruckman, McBean is a forward.
Let me put it like this, when have we or are we going to target a KPP ruckman, a big name ruckman, a young named ruckman?? We need to fill this gap and we haven't.
Hang on, you said "Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer." and that's what I responded to, nothing else. If you had said decent ruckman or big name ruckman or young named ruckman then the whole context of your post would be different and I wouldn't have replied with that info. And on the subject, Vickery was taken as a ruckman but we have chosen as a club to develop him as a forward/ruck in his development years and even if we remove McBean from my list then we still took another ruckman that year so my point is still valid and correct.
And now allow me to re-spruik what I believe about timeframes in our list development - the ruckman is the last piece of the puzzle needed and we can chase that piece when our window is firmly open(ing), there is absolutely no need to spend the money or waste trade picks on a quality ruckman until we are ready to fire. And now is approaching that time so in my opinion we shouldn't have been chasing a quality ruckman up until this year and I'm glad and comfortable with the fact the club didn't. We took Vickery and Derickx as development opportunities and Maric as a replacement for the spud Graham. Now Vickery is a viable option, Derickx will be flicked and Maric needs a hand/challenge hence the reason we are looking at more options, especially those that are ready to go. Sound strategy and timing by the club imho.
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Funny that, I could've sworn we picked up Maric 2 years ago.... :wallywink
Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer. Other clubs keep their ruck stocks topped up every year, they always have two main ruckmen in the side (most teams) and another back up, we have one with Stephenson who is really on the way out, I wouldn't expect a big year out of him.
Is that adequate enough for you??
Think you missed my point. :wallywink
2008 - Vickery
2010 - Derickx
2011 - Maric
2012 - Stephenson, McBean
We've been taking 1 each year for 3 years now and will be taking at least another one this year for sure. I been spruiking for years that it's the last piece of the puzzle we need to fill and the time is almost right to do that but it's not right to say we've only picked up 1 ruckman in over 3 years.
C'mon Smokey, that's not on the money mate!!! Vickery is more a forward/relief ruckman. Forget Derickx he is not a decent ruckman and never was. Stephenson is a short term ruckman, McBean is a forward.
Let me put it like this, when have we or are we going to target a KPP ruckman, a big name ruckman, a young named ruckman?? We need to fill this gap and we haven't.
Hang on, you said "Exactly, only Maric, that's it, one ruckman in three years, probably longer." and that's what I responded to, nothing else. If you had said decent ruckman or big name ruckman or young named ruckman then the whole context of your post would be different and I wouldn't have replied with that info. And on the subject, Vickery was taken as a ruckman but we have chosen as a club to develop him as a forward/ruck in his development years and even if we remove McBean from my list then we still took another ruckman that year so my point is still valid and correct.
And now allow me to re-spruik what I believe about timeframes in our list development - the ruckman is the last piece of the puzzle needed and we can chase that piece when our window is firmly open(ing), there is absolutely no need to spend the money or waste trade picks on a quality ruckman until we are ready to fire. And now is approaching that time so in my opinion we shouldn't have been chasing a quality ruckman up until this year and I'm glad and comfortable with the fact the club didn't. We took Vickery and Derickx as development opportunities and Maric as a replacement for the spud Graham. Now Vickery is a viable option, Derickx will be flicked and Maric needs a hand/challenge hence the reason we are looking at more options, especially those that are ready to go. Sound strategy and timing by the club imho.
Sorry Smokey I honestly thought you of all people would understand what I meant, I mean geezus man, Maric has pretty well played a lone hand and who before him mate??????????
Well will took Griff as a forward....so Vickers as a dedicated ruckman hasn't worked, only a pinch hitter....agree with the rest of your post.
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Sorry Smokey I honestly thought you of all people would understand what I meant, I mean geezus man, Maric has pretty well played a lone hand and who before him mate??????????
Well will took Griff as a forward....so Vickers as a dedicated ruckman hasn't worked, only a pinch hitter....agree with the rest of your post.
Yeah but you can't pick and choose in hindsight about who is a 'ruckman' and who isn't. When we took Maric he was a 3-4th stringer not getting a game at Adelaide and he was just as likely to fail as succeed, same as Derickx was a mature age who had showed recent promise at the lower level and there was no way of predicting if he wasn't going to be a success so in my eyes your statement was literal. If it wasn't then you have identified the lone ruckman after the event and that is an entirely different conversation. We took Vickery as a ruckman, we took Derickx as a ruckman, we took Maric as a ruckman and we took Stephenson as a ruckman. It's not fair for you to wait until they have all had a crack to then say we have only taken 1 ruckman because the others have failed. What would you have said if Maric also failed, or if Maric, Derickx and Stephenson had all fired? That we still only took 1 ruckman?
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Did we draft Vickery as a ruck man?
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Sorry Smokey I honestly thought you of all people would understand what I meant, I mean geezus man, Maric has pretty well played a lone hand and who before him mate??????????
Well will took Griff as a forward....so Vickers as a dedicated ruckman hasn't worked, only a pinch hitter....agree with the rest of your post.
Yeah but you can't pick and choose in hindsight about who is a 'ruckman' and who isn't. When we took Maric he was a 3-4th stringer not getting a game at Adelaide and he was just as likely to fail as succeed, same as Derickx was a mature age who had showed recent promise at the lower level and there was no way of predicting if he wasn't going to be a success so in my eyes your statement was literal. If it wasn't then you have identified the lone ruckman after the event and that is an entirely different conversation. We took Vickery as a ruckman, we took Derickx as a ruckman, we took Maric as a ruckman and we took Stephenson as a ruckman. It's not fair for you to wait until they have all had a crack to then say we have only taken 1 ruckman because the others have failed. What would you have said if Maric also failed, or if Maric, Derickx and Stephenson had all fired? That we still only took 1 ruckman?
I can say what I want in hindsight, end of story is; we have one decent recognised ruckman, that is what I meant!! I don't give a stuff about what and who we recruited for the rackman role, they haven't worked (bar Maric) We have not had 2-3 recognised ruckman since I don't know when..Ottens and co??...we need more, that's it.
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Did we draft Vickery as a ruck man?
Yep.
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But Maric is it!!! ;D
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Vickery still developing.
We could have had Grundy instead of Vlastuin. Happy with Vlas but.
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Coulda woulda shoulda
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Vickery still developing.
What is he developing ?
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Jumper punch
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Will be the best the RFC has ever seen
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Vickery still developing.
What is he developing ?
Body size
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Did we draft Vickery as a ruck man?
we sure did. but hes been so scared in the role we changed tack and have tried to develop him as a kpp.
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Do you mean tone like Strawbs O'Dwyer, Ty Elser, Simon Eastaugh, Matthew Clarke, Robert Schaefer, Wayne Thornborrow, Paddy Steinfort, Steven McKee, Ben Marsh and Trent Knobel :help ;D. We sure have had our list of failed ruckmen of the years whether drafted or grabbed from other clubs.
Decent ones like Greg Dear, Justin Charles, Stafford and Simmo all came from other clubs. Benny Gale is probably our only successful homegrown ruckman and he was more decent than a star ruckman. Otto really only had one top year with us. In fact he's probably only had one good year at Geelong also but because that one was their premiership year it's seen as a great trade for them while Meyer is gone and Patto's future is still up in the air.
I think our lack of producing top ruckmen in recent times it's more due to a lack of drafting ruckmen in the first place than poor development. Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years :banghead. Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman. If you then jump to Putt/Vickery it becomes a 10-11 year gap :P. We've overrelied on Staff and Simmo to carry the load since Benny Gale retired.
At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.
i reckon the real question should be when was the last time we used a decent pick on a young ruckman or two and went the development path.
ottens was in 1997 we used pick 2. it took until 2008 to use another decent pick on a ruckman and that was vickery at pick 8. vickery showed pretty early he was going to struggle to become a genuine #1 ruckman.
i could be wrong but i believe from 1997 to 2008 the highest pick we used on a young ruckman was pick 51.
theres a kid called darcy cameron he should go somewhere around pick 25 perhaps we should do all we can to get a pick around 20 to target him.
the other option is use pick 11 on longer and imo hes worth it. failing this we will continue to go down the retread path which has in the main failed us and certainly not given us a long term solution.
we have just one bona fide #1 ruckman on our list and he just entered the veteran stage of his career. we also have orren stephenson who was taken for no other reason than we needed some insurance if ivan went down.
i really do question if this club has an inkling of what succession planning is about.
we should have but dont have a kid like billy longer in our system. a genuine bona fide #1 ruckman learning the ropes and prepareing to take over from ivan in two yrs maybe 3 yrs time.
what we do have in our system is a hedging of bets. we have 3 or 4 who can do a leigh brown role if we need. we cant say vickery mcbean or elton will ever become good #1 ruckmen.
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whoops sorry mt im guilty of what i go mad at others for and thats not reading the whole post i agree with ya.
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Gee if we are hopeless at recruiting good ruckmen then we cant be any worse off than hawthorn,who haven't had a star ruckman since the black plague ravished London
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Interesting thread, how has the game changed re dominant ruckmen? Ivan has given us a huge advantage when on song, how would the GF played out without Sandilands? He was dominant but Hawthorn roved off him pretty well. Is there another way and are we going crazy over this? It may sound whacky but would you want sandilands at RFC? Would that win us a flag or improve us? What about Nic Nat or J griffin? What other options are there.? Or is it as simple as getting a clever, athletic, big bodied player with 10 tons of mongrel in him who can run all day and is a good kick? There is probably no one in the whole league that fits that description.??
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Certainly agree we need to be more active in getting rucks. Let's face it our "real" ruck stocks consist of: Maric.
Vickery pinch hits there and Stephenson fills in when Ivan is out. McBean has virtually never played ruck and Derrickx? Please!
Look at Hawthorn with Bailey, Hale, CEglar, LOwden, GRimley. Geelong with Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs, West. It's a numbers games and our numbers don't cut it.
We need a second good ruck.
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Mint the only ruckman that fits that bill is Dean Cox
His best days are behind but he is the best ruckman I have seen
Aside from him clubs have win flags with the liked of robby Campbell, west, bailey
You don't need to have A grade ruckman but someone better than derricks and vickery would be nice
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I really think we need to forget about McBean a ruckman, we ruined Griff by trying to turn him into a backman when he came to the club as a forward, lets not do the same with McBean.
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I really think we need to forget about McBean a ruckman, we ruined Griff by trying to turn him into a backman when he came to the club as a forward, lets not do the same with McBean.
But McBean played as a ruckman in the U19, so I think there is a difference. I reckon he will be able to play both roles. Just think we need to give him time to develop properly. And when I say develop I am talking more about letting him develop physically and grow into his frame
Griffiths isn't the first me will he be the last kid to come up from the TAC and be sent down back to learn something about defence. I have always believed that's one of the faults with the TAC comp, kids aren't taught the defensive side of the game. Lids being the perfect example.
That's why Grifff went back there.
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I really think we need to forget about McBean a ruckman, we ruined Griff by trying to turn him into a backman when he came to the club as a forward, lets not do the same with McBean.
But McBean played as a ruckman in the U19, so I think there is a difference. I reckon he will be able to play both roles. Just think we need to give him time to develop properly. And when I say develop I am talking more about letting him develop physically and grow into his frame
Griffiths isn't the first me will he be the last kid to come up from the TAC and be sent down back to learn something about defence. I have always believed that's one of the faults with the TAC comp, kids aren't taught the defensive side of the game. Lids being the perfect example.
That's why Grifff went back there.
Ok, I didn't realise that, cheers. He could play both roles, yes agree, and I agree with letting him develop into his frame. It will actually be good to see him after the pre-season..if he is able to complete a full pre-season that is.
Yes it is important to learn defense and lets hope Griff has done that to some extent, I still think he needs to be plonked at FF for about 4 weeks to see what happens. Maybe the NAB Cup is the time to do that...I just hopes he makes it.
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Yes it is important to learn defense and lets hope Griff has done that to some extent, I still think he needs to be plonked at FF for about 4 weeks to see what happens. Maybe the NAB Cup is the time to do that...I just hopes he makes it.
I would actually like to see Griffiths plonked at CHF and left there for 4-5 weeks
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Yes it is important to learn defense and lets hope Griff has done that to some extent, I still think he needs to be plonked at FF for about 4 weeks to see what happens. Maybe the NAB Cup is the time to do that...I just hopes he makes it.
I would actually like to see Griffiths plonked at CHF and left there for 4-5 weeks
Yes, even better WP!!!
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Agree ..plonk him at CHF and leave him there for several weeks.
My hope is that once left there he actually tries to find the pill
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Can Griffiths even string 4-5 games together? ::)
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Can Griffiths even string 4-5 games together? ::)
If they name him in the side yes, but that's the problem, they don't give him that chance.
Injuries were not his problem this year, he wasn't selected and when he was he was not given a long enough go.
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Maybe he should pull his finger out and warrant selection then ::)
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Maybe he should pull his finger out and warrant selection then ::)
Yes there is that too, I agree, but in a side like Coburg last year as a forward how much opportunity did he have. They were on the wrong side of a few walloping's.. :-\
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Maybe he should pull his finger out and warrant selection then ::)
Like Lonergan?
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Maybe he should pull his finger out and warrant selection then ::)
Yes there is that too, I agree, but in a side like Coburg last year as a forward how much opportunity did he have. They were on the wrong side of a few walloping's.. :-\
Still didn't stop the Beaner from kicking goals or Darrou breaking even as an undersized FB. Apparently Griff has had some off field issues? Will give him the benefit of the doubt for now and I used to like him but no one can sugar coat how disappointing he was this year and how lucky he is to still be on a list. Between him and Arseberry I don't know who was more lack luster.
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griff was often playing full back.
do you relise that running with the forward and punching does not reflect in a kick or handball possession?
griff couldnt play forward line because often mcgaune was in that position :banghead
when mcgaune was in seniors and griff was forward (did this ever happen) who was left to kick him the ball? vlastuin? no arrnot? no
just a bunch of coburg listed retards like abdullah :banghead
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And then theres always................go and win the ball yourself
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hes 200cm you knobjockey
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Oh my
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Lmao some quality here, he is too tall too get the ball and should get a game because he is big benny G
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Benny gale was shyte till 25 :whistle
Just to clarify how many touches are we expecting the 21 200cm playing out of position (to accommodate mcgaune forward) per game? 35?
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griff from memory in one game got the pill about 20 times. so he can get the footy.
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griff from memory in one game got the pill about 20 times. so he can get the footy.
One game in what, 5 years? Stop making excuses. Either step up or bugger off. Big pre-season and one last crack at it. If he still can't get a kick then it's time to go. Most of the time Jayden Post played with the intensity of WP after he had a beer thrown in his face yet Posty still had the odd good game
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Benny gale was shyte till 25 :whistle
Just to clarify how many touches are we expecting the 21 200cm playing out of position (to accommodate mcgaune forward) per game? 35?
By the looks of it 10 is too much to ask, so how about 7
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Didn't realise that height limits your ability to win the football.I guess clunking marks is no go zone for Griff
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haha - agree with the above sentiments, its sink or swim time for Griff, no excuses!!
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Certainly agree we need to be more active in getting rucks. Let's face it our "real" ruck stocks consist of: Maric.
Vickery pinch hits there and Stephenson fills in when Ivan is out. McBean has virtually never played ruck and Derrickx? Please!
Look at Hawthorn with Bailey, Hale, CEglar, LOwden, GRimley. Geelong with Simpson, McIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs, West. It's a numbers games and our numbers don't cut it.
We need a second good ruck.
How can you say our "real" ruck stocks consist of Maric but then go and list Ceglar, Lowden and Grimely for hawthorn :lol :lol