Ruckmen at Tigerland

[WA Tiger]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy..

[Penelope]

do you want to find real ones that back up what you say or just ones that you can use one sentence out context?

[Yeahright]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

[WA Tiger]

do you want to find real ones that back up what you say or just ones that you can use one sentence out context?

 

[WA Tiger]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.

[eliminator]

I agree with the comments that Gale is probably our best ruckman in recent years that we developed. I also thought Ottens was good as well. Both started off in the forwardline and both were good at taking contested grabs. All our good ruckman have been able to take contested grabs eg Stafford and Maric. We are a team that does well when we have a ruckman who can take contested grabs. Our improvement with Maric on board has been significant.

[Francois Jackson]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.

Agreed Maric is it in terms of ruckman

O.S is our next best but hardly developing when he is 30 years of age.

I dont want to hear that spud's Derickx name mentioned again. He is useless and im not talking about the GC game.

He cant play anywhere on the field, except warming the bench.

Vickery is mobilish though. Can play forward and ruck. Not defence.

[Judge Roughneck]

Vickery is agile for a man of his size.

Elton, mcbean, Griffin are.mobile ruckman sized , also.

[Loui Tufga]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy..

How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??

All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!

Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!

[the claw]

its probably been said  on this thread but you cannot develop young ruckmen if you dont have em.
since ottens who was a damn fine ruckman imo, taken in 97 at pick 2 we have used just 4 nd picks on young  ruckmen up to mcbean last yr.
pattison was not a ruckman he was a chf who was tried as a ruckman in desperation. his lack of pace and agility meant ruck is where he ended up.

the four nd picks we have used on ruckmen in the last 15yrs since ottens  are
2007 putt pick 51.  it took 10 yrs to actually take a young ruckman in the nd.
2008 vickery pick 8. is he now a ruckman or potential #1,  or a key forward who pinch hits in the ruck..
2010 derickx pick 63 as a 23yo mature recruit.
2012 mcbean pick 33 as a 18 yr old. even mcbean has questions about weather he will end up a ruckman or kpp.

the failure to actually take young ruckmen and develop them has meant every 4 or 5 yrs we are looking to take mature rejects from other clubs some of whom work out and others who dont.
we have failed to use good picks on young ruckmen but have then generally  failed to at least load up with late nd and rookie picks on them in an attempt to find a good one. we all know theres a high fail rate with late nd and rookie picks.hence the need to load up with those type of picks if you dont use early picks to get em.

mature rucks and  places we have taken them are.
2001 stafford pick 17nd 28yo what a joke. we had just ottens  all australian and gale in 2001  with gale near the end. but why not  two kids even as rookies plus a bit of cheap backup for ottens.

2004  marsh psd 28yo. in 2004 the list contained just ottens marsh and stafford. again where are the kids.

2004 simmonds player trade 26/27yo?.  ottens went to geelong. we cut marsh,  and we bought in simmonds and knobel but no kids.on  the list simmonds knobel and a shot and old stafford
2005 knobel psd 25yo

2010 derickx nd 63 23yo.

2011 maric pick 37 26yo. the list contained  graham browne vickery derickx. the rucks had been soo neglected we had take amaric we had no real choice.



rookies
2006 graham 18yo
2008 cartledge 23yo
2009 browne 18yo
2013 stephenson 30yo

ssince the inception of the rookie draft in 97 we have used just 4 rookie picks on ruckmen yet in the main we refuse to use decent picks on them in the nd. two of those picks were on mature rrookies.

anyway this is all old hat ive been over this that many times its not funny. people wonder why i go on about list management.

if i was assesing our ruck stocks as of this moment
stephenson 30 yo. imo we went the wrong way in taking such an old player who is clearly nothing more than a battler. short term and would plan for him not being here after a yr or two.
maric 27yo is realistically a short/med term prospect. would want at least two young ruckmen in development now for when his demise comes.
derickx 25yo based on what ive seen of him at the level he wont make it and would be planning for this scenario.if they think he will make it why go get a 30 yr old.
vickery 23yo? i dont see him as a pure first ruck. hes a for / ruck and hes been developed that way
mcbean 18yo he has the height to play ruck but will he be one with his frame. he will never be a crash bash ruckman in the jolly or maric mould thats for sure. like vickery a kpp/ruck.

its very concievable that we actually have just one first ruckman on our list and hes 27. we certainly only have one crash bash type.
we probably have two kpps/rucks one in development vickery  one a junior mcbean.

would be looking to firstly cut stephenson and derickx.
 target a young ruckman of the right type with a good early pick. would also be looking to take a backup ruckman around 22 - 24 yrs like jack hannath. id even go so far as to rookie one as well.

[Yeahright]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.

If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah

[the claw]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.

If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah

in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.

vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.

this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.

in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a  27yo.

[Penelope]

Claw, perhaps in the past it has no so much been the process but the application we have got wrong.

most ruckmen wont come good until 23-25, so thats a lot of time you lock up a list spot and resources on someone that may or may not make it.

Of the last 10 premiership ruckmen, 5, or half  were poached from other clubs.

brogan was recruited as a succeful baskeballer at age 24.

Cox, campbell blake and fraser were the four drafted by the club they played with.

Cox and Blake were rookies.

Blake was taken under the father son at 38, and it was only because ottens had his year ruined by injury he was even there.

Fraser is the only one drafted early - pick 1-  and developed by the club.

History seems to show that except for the standouts that go real early, and they are relatively rare, early picks are probably better used on players that don't have such a long development period.

[WA Tiger]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

One of them mate, but your such fun to play with... ....now be a good fellow and run off and find me some more, there's a good boy..

How about quoting me in context!! Where is the rest of he conversation? And where have I said our ruck stocks are fine??

All I said there is we have a Plethora of DEVELOPING "Mobile Ruckman" which is true!! Vickery, Elton, Grifiths and McBean are all you YOUNG developing Forwards/Rucks who all have potential to play that rotating Ruck/Forward position! The post also states we have NO developing PURE ruckman in he mould of Maric, Sandilands, Giles, Jolly ect which is also true and I wholeheartedly believe the club needs to address this problem ASAP and personally I can't believe we didn't this draft!!

Now while your at it why don't you go back and read pages 1 and 2 and read where I mentioned we need to get Dan Currie! In case you didn't notice He's he guy who gave our Derickx and Stephenson an absolute bath on he weekend and is the sole reason you felt the need to start a fresh Ruckman Needed thread!!

McBean wasn't with us when you said it...

[Yeahright]

is this the one you are talking about?

the only thing I think we really lack is a developing pure  ruckman, we have a plethora of developing mobil ruckman that can play forward and back but nothing in the mold of a good big bodied pure ruckman. Maybe there will be no place in the game for this style of player in 5 years time who knows....

Thats actually pretty accurate ^

I really don't think we have a "plethora" of any sort of ruckman, let alone mobile ones....Maric is it IMO.

If you think Maric is our only ruckman you've gone completely delusional hahahah

in the literal sense we have 5, maric, stephenson, derickx, vickery and mcbean. all taken primarily as ruckmen.
in 3 yrs time where are these players likely to be at.
maric 30yo still the only genuine #1 ruckman.
stephenson will be lucky to last one yr so he will be gone.
derickx just hasnt shown a thing the odds are he is gone.

vickery will likely be a kpf he wont be our #1 ruckman.
mcbean well in 3 yrs time he is unlikely to have the size still to play as a #1 ruckman. like vickery i reckon hes primarily a kpp.

this seems to be pretty logical to me and what atm looks most likely. do we plan for this or do we do what we always have and just hope.

in the realistic sense we have just one up to standard first ruck in maric and hes a  27yo.

So you admit we have more than one ruckman