Ruckmen at Tigerland

[big tone]

Have we at Tigerland drafted/invited down to the club (as in before the draft) and developed a decent true ruckman in the last 25 years? Not including recycled ruckmen from other AFL sides. The only one i can think of is Ottens but he seems to have gotten better after leaving us. Do we have a problem in the way we draft and develop ruckmen??

[Francois Jackson]

Have we at Tigerland drafted/invited down to the club (as in before the draft) and developed a decent true ruckman in the last 25 years? Not including recycled ruckmen from other AFL sides. The only one i can think of is Ottens but he seems to have gotten better after leaving us. Do we have a problem in the way we draft and develop ruckmen??

yes but ruckman is one of many issues we have had at our club.

proof is in the pudding re: finals appearances

Benny Gale is our best ruckman by the length of MXMLXV's nose.

Dont ever mention Brad Ottens name again. The weakest player i have seen in my time when he played for us.

He didn't give a stuff about our club and it showed every time he went on the ground

[mightytiges]

Do you mean tone like Strawbs O'Dwyer, Ty Elser, Simon Eastaugh, Matthew Clarke, Robert Schaefer, Wayne Thornborrow, Paddy Steinfort, Steven McKee, Ben Marsh and Trent Knobel   . We sure have had our list of failed ruckmen of the years whether drafted or grabbed from other clubs.

Decent ones like Greg Dear, Justin Charles, Stafford and Simmo all came from other clubs. Benny Gale is probably our only successful homegrown ruckman and he was more decent than a star ruckman. Otto really only had one top year with us. In fact he's probably only had one good year at Geelong also but because that one was their premiership year it's seen as a great trade for them while Meyer is gone and Patto's future is still up in the air.

I think our lack of producing top ruckmen in recent times it's more due to a lack of drafting ruckmen in the first place than poor development. Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years  . Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman. If you then jump to Putt/Vickery it becomes a 10-11 year gap  . We've overrelied on Staff and Simmo to carry the load since Benny Gale retired.

At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.

[1965]

Benny Gale is our best ruckman by the length of MXMLXV's nose.

It's MCMLXV as in 1965 (long sad story behind the name, RIP Les)

and being part italian I have a fine aquiline nose thank you very much.

 

[Gracie]

At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.

Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by

How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???

[Con65]

Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years  . Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.

MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly  I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).

With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.

But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.

[Chuck17]

Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by

How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???

Good point while you wouldn't knock back a top class one I don't think they are essential to modern day football.  A half decent ruck that can push forward and be a tall option in the forward line is probably sufficient.

An elite midfield will always make any ruckman look half decent.

[tiga]

Apart from Cox, Sandilands and Hill, the rest of the Ruckman going around are really not much better than our lot so we are not the only ones struggling in their search for an elite Ruckman. A few of the younger guys going around may surprise this season but as a rule I think that the league overall is struggling to find high quality Ruckman. This may not be the case in 2 or 3 years though...Kruezer, Naitanui, Vickery, Warnock, Bellchambers etc...

[Ramps]

With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.

[Francois Jackson]

With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.

Whats new Ramps??

Since i have been supporting this team i am yet to find a player who kicks like a Nathan Buckley from 50 metres out, both sides of the feet.

Closest is Lids and he is a gun.

Our biggest problem is our disposal.

Ill keep reverting back to an interview i heard a few years with Al Clarkson. "If you cant kick you ill not be in our team" Whilst they dumped average duds like Vandeburg and Zac Dawson we continually allow players who cant kick or hold a tackle senior gigs.

[1965]

With Vickery, Browne, Putt and Angus ... we just have to wait and see which of them comes through. At this stage, I feel we need to focus on finding/developing a key forward and that has to be the big priority at the end of the year. We also need to continue to add to our midfield by finding players who can dispose properly. We still have to many blokes in our team who cant kick.

Whats new Ramps??

Since i have been supporting this team i am yet to find a player who kicks like a Nathan Buckley from 50 metres out, both sides of the feet.

Closest is Lids and he is a gun.

Our biggest problem is our disposal.

Ill keep reverting back to an interview i heard a few years with Al Clarkson. "If you cant kick you ill not be in our team" Whilst they dumped average duds like Vandeburg and Zac Dawson we continually allow players who cant kick or hold a tackle senior gigs.

 

[big tone]

Apart from Cox, Sandilands and Hill, the rest of the Ruckman going around are really not much better than our lot so we are not the only ones struggling in their search for an elite Ruckman.

Not sure about that Tiga, here's a quick list of other clubs ruckmen i think are better than our back-up ruckmen (at the moment) like them or not-
Fraser, Jolly, Ottens, Lade, Brogan, Paul Johnson, McIntosh, King, Charman, Campbell, Blake, Minson, Hudson, Jamar, Wood, Seaby, Gardiner, Simon Taylor, Renouf and on and on.
Lets not kid ourselves!

[mightytiges]

At least now we have a large number of young rucks on our list. So in the short-term our lack of top class ruckmen is still an issue but we should be okay in say 5 years time as Vickery, Browne, Gus and hopefully Putt come through to replace Simmo.

Do we really need a top class ruckman or would a slightly better than average do if we have a top class midfield??? Brisbane didn't need a top class ruckman and Sydney got by

How many top class ruckmen are there anyway???

Brisbane had Mr September Clark Keating plus MacDonald (sp?) and Charman, while Sydney had Ball, Jolly with Goodes pinchhitting. The Swans missed Ball in their losing 2006 GF after he retired. Port had Brogan and Lade, West Coast had Cox and Geelong had King and Ottens in 2007 but were weaker last year with Blake instead of King. I guess it depends what you mean by better than average. IMO the first ruck has to be quality and the second better than average. Grant Thomas cost the Saints a flag with his stubborn "I don't rate ruckman" dogma. Of course you do need a top class and deep midfield as well as you say Gracie.

[mightytiges]

Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years  . Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.

MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly  I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).

With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.

But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.

That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time  . Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.

Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby  .

[Ramps]

Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years  . Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.

MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly  I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).

With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.

But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.

That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time  . Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.

Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby  .

Its getting to the stage, where you almost have to decide that what we have in terms of ruck is what we have and that we should wait 2 or 3 years so the young blokes we have develop rather than wasting a seriously high pick on another clubs ruckman in the trade period.