Ruckmen at Tigerland

[mightytiges]

Bloody Spud didn't draft one ruckman in his whole 5 years  . Between Ottens and Patto (who this year is not being used as a pure ruckman) that's a 7 year gap without drafting a ruckman.

MT whilst I agree with the sentiments of your post and I am openly no fan of spud - it is splitting hairs to say he didnt draft one ruckman when he traded for Staff (ultimately james kelly  I believe being pick 17 in 2001 draft from memory).

With the trading for Staff - our ruck stocks looked ok with Ottens and Staff working in tandem and at the time we had Steinfort too I think.

But yes I agree - there was no real attempt to draft a ruckman until the Miller/Wallace/ and then Cameron/Wallace era.

That's true Spud traded for Staff but remember that was a desperate chase to replace Benny Gale who was forced into retirement and to offload most of Daffy's contract (hence us coughing up a first round pick in the 2001 superdraft). Our salary cap was at the max. thanks to Holland and Gas' new contracts at the time  . Then CEO Mark Brayshaw deserves mass criticism for that too.

Even forgetting that stuff up, trading for Staff was a short term solution. When he retired we had no young developing ruckmen on our list maturing and ready to go to replace him. Simmo replace Ottens but no one replaced Staff unless you count Knobel who Terry got but he was injured all the time anyway. Also drafting and developing your own young ruckmen is a far cheaper option in terms of picks and $$$ then chasing after one in the marketplace. Getting a Simmo for Fiora is a one in a million trade. Most ruckmen on offer during trade week are overpriced including the dud ones. West Coast wanted our first round pick for Seaby  .

Its getting to the stage, where you almost have to decide that what we have in terms of ruck is what we have and that we should wait 2 or 3 years so the young blokes we have develop rather than wasting a seriously high pick on another clubs ruckman in the trade period.

Agree Ramps although I won't be surprised if we have another look at Seaby at the end of the year (he'll be out of contract) if our young blokes prove to be not ready yet. Now that's not what I want us to do but the club may still look out for a cheap mature 2nd ruckman if they think we still need one temporarily until the ruck cubs develop. Best scenario of course is Browne and/or Gus showing enough this year as 2nd ruck to help out Simmo then that would solve the ruck problem instantly  .

[big tone]

Ok, most people have answeed one part of my question about recruiting ruckmen, now it's time to hear your thoughts on the other part. Do we as a club develope our ruckmen well enough?
Weather it be recycled guys or young guys. It seems to me over a long period of time we get these guys in but they don't make it for one reason or another. Is it our ruck coaches? Are they good enough? Do we need to look elsewhere for other, more educated people? Do we need to spend more time and money to become better at this part of our coaching? Maybe it's time to stop getting overweight old ruckmen that were not even that good in there day, coaching our future ruckmen.  I think it's time to stop hoping and start doing everything in the clubs powers to get our ruckmen to where the other teams are at.

To me, the answer is simple!

[mightytiges]

Too early to judge on the development issue for mine as far as our young ruckmen go.

Patto    23
Gus      21 going on 22
Putt     19
Vickery 18
Browne 18

Most rucks don't hit their peak until their mid-late 20s.

The problem at Richmond IMHO has been a lack of young developing ruckmen plus a too thin (crap) midfield at the feet of the older ones we've had over the years. You can't really fault Simmo while he's been at Punt Rd. He's no great tap ruckman but he's been worth that 5 year contract we gave him.

Not a fan of Monkhurst BT?

[one-eyed]

Jeff White in today's Herald-Sun praises Simmo as a ruckman who has adapted as footy has become more a running game....

"You've got to be able to run. You've got to become an extra midfielder when you're not doing the ruck work," he said.

"It's a running game. That's why Cox has been so successful. He averages 19 possessions (22 in 2008). He's the stand-out among the current ruckmen."

White ... warned that those who did not adapt would flounder.

He said Hille, Ottens, Brendon Lade and Darren Jolly had stepped up their work rate in the past couple of years.

" .....Troy Simmonds is still up there, too."

Full article at:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25197367-19742,00.html

[big tone]

Too early to judge on the development issue for mine as far as our young ruckmen go.

Patto    23
Gus      21 going on 22
Putt     19
Vickery 18
Browne 18

Most rucks don't hit their peak until their mid-late 20s.

The problem at Richmond IMHO has been a lack of young developing ruckmen plus a too thin (crap) midfield at the feet of the older ones we've had over the years. You can't really fault Simmo while he's been at Punt Rd. He's no great tap ruckman but he's been worth that 5 year contract we gave him.

Not a fan of Monkhurst BT?

Must admit i don't really know anything about Monky's coaching, but we don't really have ruckmen lining up for spots in our side. He has about 1 million dollars of our product in his hands i and i just can't help but think a part time position coaching our young up-and- coming stars a little light on.
 
Also about your point about ruckmen peaking in their mid to late 20s, do we give our guys 7 to 10 years on our list before they become any good? Maybe this is why we have drafted recycled guys in the past, but once again i think it comes back to our development of these guys. No easy answer but something has to happen soon to help poor old Simmo.

[mightytiges]

Must admit i don't really know anything about Monky's coaching, but we don't really have ruckmen lining up for spots in our side. He has about 1 million dollars of our product in his hands i and i just can't help but think a part time position coaching our young up-and- coming stars a little light on.
 
Also about your point about ruckmen peaking in their mid to late 20s, do we give our guys 7 to 10 years on our list before they become any good? Maybe this is why we have drafted recycled guys in the past, but once again i think it comes back to our development of these guys. No easy answer but something has to happen soon to help poor old Simmo.

Nah BT I didn't mean you wait 7-10 years to find out if they are any good at all although talls will be persisted with longer than smalls at all clubs. It's just that it can take that long before ruckmen even the best ones to reach their absolute peak. They can be decent enough to play even as a 2nd ruckman before then but they won't reach their best to take over the 1st ruckman mantle until their mid-late 20s. Think of 26 y.o. Campbell at Hawthorn who was second banana under Everitt until the last two years and the Hawks still brought in a mature 2nd ruck Taylor so a Renouf or Bailey (who did his knee) weren't thrown to the wolves if Campbell had gone down. That's why you shouldn't have long gaps between drafting a young ruckman as we did at Richmond  . They take time to develop. We are still catching up from past recruiting mistakes at the start of this decade.

1st ruck is the last one position that hasn't become a young man's game.

Lade - 32
Brogan - 30
Hudson - 30
King - 30
Simmonds - 30
Ottens - 29
Cox - 27
Fraser - 27
Hille - 27
Campbell - 26
Sandilands - 26


As for AFL ruck coaches - all of them that I know of are part time. The proof will be in the pudding but Monky is at every training session and at least he was a full-time 1st ruck as a player for a number of years so he comes with experience and knowledge of the position. A premiership player too. That's not always been the case at Richmond as far as ruck coaches.

[Infamy]

One of our ruck coaches under Fraudley didn't even play in the ruck when he played AFL

[WA Tiger]

So during the past two drafts now I have been calling for another ruckman to be picked up, either by trade, free agency (this year) or in the draft.

I was hounded down for making this call because apparently we have coverage.... however it now appears al lot of posters on this forum are the same ones coming out saying that we are screwed without Maric... REALLY!!!!!

The RFC must, next year, aggressively persue a decent to very good ruckman or we wil be faced with this problem for years. Most clubs now have 2 VG rucks in their side.

If the big O does not come up with the goods this year...

[JVT]

The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.

[WA Tiger]

The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.

Maybe not, most teams play with #1 & #2 rucks, if the Eagles can keep NIc & Cox, surely we could lure another one accross..

[JVT]

The Big O will not come up, they'll have to find a better option soon. Will be hard to persuade a good ruck to come over now that Maric has his hands on the #1 spot.

Maybe not, most teams play with #1 & #2 rucks, if the Eagles can keep NIc & Cox, surely we could lure another one accross..

I believe they are banking on TV being that #2 ruck you have defined in your example.

[Penelope]

i cant recall anyone saying our ruck stocks were covered.

As JVT said, it is hard to lure another ruckman when you have an established ruckman. To do so you he needs to be able to hold down another position on the ground in his own right. Otherwise, good luck convincing someone who can actually play to come across just to rot away at coburg.

In reality these things are bit more difficult than you experience playing supercoach and such.

we did draft a ruckman last draft, but yeah, he's a few years away.

[Smokey]

I said it all summer and I'll keep saying it - the ruckman is the last piece of the premiership puzzle that we need and we don't really need him this year because the club will know that we aren't a realistic chance at a flag.  Next year is a whole different ballgame and I'll bet you London to a brick they already have someone in mind who will be coming off contract at season's end (another reason they didn't chase anyone up this season and went instead with a cheap stop-gap measure in Stephenson).

[HKTiger]

Thought Derrickx showed a bit on the weekend.  Seemed to work into the game well,  Took a good grab late on.

[JVT]

Thought Derrickx showed a bit on the weekend.  Seemed to work into the game well,  Took a good grab late on.

Isn't the answer, may be the bloke that rots away at Coburg for a 'just in case' scenario when Stephenson gets the flick.