Author Topic: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers  (Read 4559 times)

Offline Stripes

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2009, 10:43:58 AM »
King is not the forward coach he is the backline coach. Royal is the forward coach and before we start to blame everything on the coaches yet again we need to point the finger at the forwards who are not following directions.

Richo is the worst defender of the lot and yet he is the most revered of the senior players on the list. Bowden played in defence most of his career yet has barely layed a tackle and now he is playing mainly up forward. Morton and Riewoldt actually chase and try and lay tackles but the rest of the forwardline is terrible. As soon as the opposition get the ball in our F50 you can be sure it will be coming out quicker than it came in.

I thought this was the very reason we recruited Nahas, because of his defensive pressure and run down ability. Similiarly we need our bigger forwards such as Schulz, Hughes and Simmonds when he is resting down there to still fight to keep the ball in our forwardline.

Overall the players need to take responsibility for our poor defensive pressure across the ground and the coaches need to make them accountable (like they did with Bowden last year) if we are to improve as a list and team.

The spot light needs to be put on all our players and with our on field leaders starting with the big fellow himself - Richo, because we are now being called a 'delight' to play because we don't tackle and that is not something that sits well with me.

Toughen up Tigers!

Stripes

Offline Fishfinger

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2009, 11:07:25 AM »
Tackling no longer a winner in new game
Greg Denham | March 31, 2009

WIN the tackle count against your opponent and you win the game. Not so, at least not any more.

Five first-round losers actually won the tackle count, but picked up no premiership points.

Hawthorn, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbourne and, believe it or not, Fremantle had more tackles than their opposition, but were beaten.

In the Dockers' case, they had 65 tackles to the Bulldogs' 49 but were blown away by 63 points.

The best tackling club in the opening round was Carlton, which made 82 tackles to Richmond's 54.

But that statistic was not surprising, given the Tigers, in four years and one game under coach Terry Wallace, have won the tackle count in just 29 of their 89 games. Under Wallace, Richmond has executed 560 tackles less than its opponents.

The other winners with the highest tackle count were St Kilda (74) over the Swans (57) and Brisbane (67) to West Coast's 32.

The Eagles cleared out by as much as 38 points in the second term at the Gabba, but were overrun and lost by nine points. However, under a different John Worsfold game plan, which includes defensive zoning, they had 14 players with one or less tackles for the match.

Tackling and the pressure it places on the opposition is just one aspect of the modern game, but increasingly it is the contested ball balance that is gaining more significance as a barometer of how well a team is playing.

Tackling is not the key indicator of success it once was, just as the possession count is now generally way out of kilter with the success-rate it produced a decade ago.

But sometimes a high-possession performance can reflect a victory, as the Western Bulldogs delivered on Sunday in Perth.

The Dogs had a club record 446 disposals, compared with Fremantle's 345. The Dogs bettered their previous best effort - against Brisbane last year - by one.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25265800-5012432,00.html
It's 50 of one and half a dozen of the other - Don Scott

Offline Fishfinger

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2009, 11:09:48 AM »

WIN the tackle count against your opponent and you win the game. Not so, at least not any more.

Except for the 3 winners who won the tackle count.  :sleep

Hope he's right about contested possessions being the key indicator. We're good at that.
Turnovers are the killer.
It's 50 of one and half a dozen of the other - Don Scott

Offline TigerTime

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2009, 11:11:55 AM »
it was not our tackling or lack of it that lost the game for us. it was plain and simple, turnovers and poor skill execution.
once these issues are addressed, we will be fine.  its rnd 1, no need to panic

Offline mightytiges

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2009, 09:55:18 PM »
After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled  :o.

1999: Average tackles per match = 25  (Essendon averaged the most with 28)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc


2009:  Average tackles per match = 60  (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc


Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009:  55  ( 13th )
2008:  48  ( 16th )
2007:  45  ( 16th )
2006:  45  ( 14th )
2005:  41  ( 14th )
2004:  42  ( 12th )
2003:  41  ( 15th )
2002:  42  ( 12th )
2001:  37  ( 4th  )
2000:  31  ( 10th )
1999:  26  ( 7th  )
1998:  36  ( 2nd )
1997:  31  ( 5th  )
1996:  31  ( 7th  )
1995:  30  ( 5th  )
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mightytiges

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2009, 06:10:57 PM »
Jimmy Bartel had 16 tackles today. Unbelievable!  :o

I hope our boys watched the game today. Ruthless, relentless and uncompromising footy in action over 4 quarters.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline tdy

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2009, 11:30:37 AM »
After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled  :o.

1999: Average tackles per match = 25  (Essendon averaged the most with 28)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc


2009:  Average tackles per match = 60  (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc


Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009:  55  ( 13th )
2008:  48  ( 16th )
2007:  45  ( 16th )
2006:  45  ( 14th )
2005:  41  ( 14th )
2004:  42  ( 12th )
2003:  41  ( 15th )
2002:  42  ( 12th )
2001:  37  ( 4th  )
2000:  31  ( 10th )
1999:  26  ( 7th  )
1998:  36  ( 2nd )
1997:  31  ( 5th  )
1996:  31  ( 7th  )
1995:  30  ( 5th  )

You know I thought we were a defensive side under Frawley but our tackle count says we weren't.  And I knew we weren't under Wallace.  I hope we are under Hardwick.

Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2009, 06:02:51 PM »
After just 45 tackles against Adelaide I was looking at our tackling stats so far this year and came across how much the number of tackles per game has increased in the past decade. It's virtually more than doubled  :o.

1999: Average tackles per match = 25  (Essendon averaged the most with 28)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=1999&Sort=AverageTackles%20Desc


2009:  Average tackles per match = 60  (St Kilda is averaging almost 70 per game)

http://finalsiren.com/TeamStatsSummary.asp?SeasonID=2009&Sort=Tackles%20Desc


Btw here's Richmond's tackling stats per game since 1995:
2009:  55  ( 13th )
2008:  48  ( 16th )
2007:  45  ( 16th )
2006:  45  ( 14th )
2005:  41  ( 14th )
2004:  42  ( 12th )
2003:  41  ( 15th )
2002:  42  ( 12th )
2001:  37  ( 4th  )
2000:  31  ( 10th )
1999:  26  ( 7th  )
1998:  36  ( 2nd )
1997:  31  ( 5th  )
1996:  31  ( 7th  )
1995:  30  ( 5th  )

Amazing stats these.

A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.

Offline Smokey

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2009, 06:43:42 PM »

A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.

How funny is that.  He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.

Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 07:03:36 PM »

How funny is that.  He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.

Most definitely.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: The two "T's", Tackling and Turnovers
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2009, 07:09:23 PM »
Those stats looking back at them show we as a club didn't move with the times and trends of the game. Apart from 2000 we were in the top 8 tackling sides in the 90s. In fact at the time we were often criticised as a team that played on passion and grinding out wins rather than skill. Since we last made the finals we've been in the bottom 5 tackling sides. So our tackling and defensive pressure hasn't kept up as the game evolved (plus our skill level is still crap  :P ).


A St Kilda supporting friend of mine actually complained about how ordinary the game aesthetically with it degenerating into stoppages that resemble Rugby Union style mauls.

How funny is that.  He should complain to the St Kilda coaching group - they're the ones that brought that style to the game - Geelong certainly don't play like that.
Yep Ross Lyon has turned St Kilda into Sydney. Midfielders and backline shutdown the game with defensive pressure and turn it into stoppage after stoppage rugby style  :sleep. That's why their mids hardly kick goals and they rely on Riewoldt, Kosi, Milne and Schneider with McQualter chipping in to kick most of their goals.

As for Geelong's style, I love the way they play. It's the way footy should be played in the modern era. Tough, unrelenting, down the corridor footy. For the sake of footy and the way opposition clubs love to follow trends I'm glad the Cats won over such a negative constrictive gameplan. The problem with such a overtly defensive style is the scoreboard remains close against good opposition so you always give them a sniff if you don't take your scoring opportunities. That's what happened to St Kilda yesterday. They blew it in front of goal.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd