Author Topic: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)  (Read 4162 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 08:02:52 AM »
Seems the Tigers aren't the only ones looking for increased aerobic capacity with the new interchanges rules....

from the Sunday Mail in Adelaide....

Freo's sports science manager Jason Weber says players have been working hard on their running over the pre-season with an increase in aerobic capacity the key.

"Rotations will drop this season purely on the basis of now only having three rotating players," he told fremantlefc.com.au. "... Making sure our players can continue ... over a longer duration is going to require more aerobic strength."



Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 09:04:23 AM »
Personally I think that when you have someone whose freak quality is their contested marking ability (or else bringing the ball to ground), then you want them to spend the majority of their time close to the sticks. I don't like the fad of having the likes of Franklin, Riewoldt taking cheap marks on the wing and then bombing it to no-one. Simple footy - get the ball, move it quick, kick long to Jack. I reckon the problem with our lack of a goal spread is the quality of our second and smaller forwards, not Jack's style.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2011, 10:01:14 AM »
So you would have played carey, barker, hart, vanderhaar, the lesser Reiwoldt et al at full forward?

If marks on the wing were that cheap we would be getting a lot more of them.
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Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2011, 10:45:11 AM »
So you would have played carey, barker, hart, vanderhaar, the lesser Reiwoldt et al at full forward?

If marks on the wing were that cheap we would be getting a lot more of them.

Those blokes were true CHFs. The weren't leading up past true wing to take marks as a first option. Teams zone off and are quite happy for N. Riewoldt to take a mark 90-100m from goal if it means they have time to get blokes back into F50 to stop the contested mark. If you are waiting for your number 1 target to get back into F50 (as St Kilda were so often last season) I think he will become less effective and your structure breaks down.

That said, Collingwood won the flag and will be raging hot favourites again without a great marking forward.... I just reckon Jack is an elite contested grab, great core strength in one-on-one body contests and changing his game towards one suited for players with different qualities to Jack (and for players that don't have Jack's qualities) should be the least of our focus right now, develop a structure where we get it long to him early, and develop the smaller forwards to works off his tap-ons and soccer kicks.

Online Hard Roar Tiger

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 01:43:08 PM »
So you would have played carey, barker, hart, vanderhaar, the lesser Reiwoldt et al at full forward?

If marks on the wing were that cheap we would be getting a lot more of them.

All those sides (with the exception of St Kilda's Barker) were teams that won premierships or played in GF's.
By implication, they had the support to send their Key Forwards up the ground.

You also had some teams with incredible midfields in the past 10 years that did not have elite forwards playing up the ground. Recently you have had Geelong with Mooney, WCE (in 2004-6) with Lynch and even the Swans with Hall and Lions with Lynch as predominate stay at home, leading forwards.  All amazing midfields (with possible exception of Swans) who could run the ball deep inside 50 to a leading forward. Just no need for a roaming forward up to the wings.

To me, its a bit of horses for course. If there is a need for Jack to play up the ground and we have the support inside 50 to capitalise, I can see that ploy breaking up the congestion in our F50.

But until we have a Griffiths, Post or Vickery prove they can step up, we may just see the ball coming straight back over Jacks head which is what happened last year when team ganged their defence up on him.
“I find it nearly impossible to make those judgments, but he is certainly up there with the really important ones, he is certainly up there with the Francis Bourkes and the Royce Harts and the Kevin Bartlett and the Kevin Sheedys, there is no doubt about that,” Balme said.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2011, 04:25:14 PM »

All those sides (with the exception of St Kilda's Barker) were teams that won premierships or played in GF's.
By implication, they had the support to send their Key Forwards up the ground.

You also had some teams with incredible midfields in the past 10 years that did not have elite forwards playing up the ground. Recently you have had Geelong with Mooney, WCE (in 2004-6) with Lynch and even the Swans with Hall and Lions with Lynch as predominate stay at home, leading forwards.  All amazing midfields (with possible exception of Swans) who could run the ball deep inside 50 to a leading forward. Just no need for a roaming forward up to the wings.

To me, its a bit of horses for course. If there is a need for Jack to play up the ground and we have the support inside 50 to capitalise, I can see that ploy breaking up the congestion in our F50.

But until we have a Griffiths, Post or Vickery prove they can step up, we may just see the ball coming straight back over Jacks head which is what happened last year when team ganged their defence up on him.

The other way of looking at is they were top sides because thay had such quality players roaming around CHF. it could become a bit like the chicken and egg though, which leads on to the horses for courses, which i think is a fair call, particulary the part about breaking up congestion in the F50.

Either way though, as you hint at, we need other options.


Those blokes were true CHFs. The weren't leading up past true wing to take marks as a first option. Teams zone off and are quite happy for N. Riewoldt to take a mark 90-100m from goal if it means they have time to get blokes back into F50 to stop the contested mark. If you are waiting for your number 1 target to get back into F50 (as St Kilda were so often last season) I think he will become less effective and your structure breaks down.

That said, Collingwood won the flag and will be raging hot favourites again without a great marking forward.... I just reckon Jack is an elite contested grab, great core strength in one-on-one body contests and changing his game towards one suited for players with different qualities to Jack (and for players that don't have Jack's qualities) should be the least of our focus right now, develop a structure where we get it long to him early, and develop the smaller forwards to works off his tap-ons and soccer kicks.

I'm not sure what different qualities you look at for a CHF, but wouldn't elite contested mark and good core strength be highly sought after attributes for a CHF?

Nick's an interesting one. From what I've seen he really only gets up towards the half back when the ball is struggling to get down to him. It seems it's more of something he does off his own back as there doesn't seem to be any plan for someone else to push up forward to cover for him.

So if Jack does move further up the ground, if he is meant to be working as far back as CHB, hopefully there will be plans for someone else to push forward as he does.

I also have a suspicion that Jack will be asked to run deep into the forward line from CHF to create options in a similar vein to what he does at the 11sec mark in this video. (with longer kicks naturally)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lpCcg5WSRM

(notice astbury also working deep forward to provide an option too)

I remember a couple of training reports early last year mentioned how there were drills specifically aimed at kicking to space and having someone run with the flight of the ball to mark.

Hardwicks reaction in this video could have the caption  "I love it when a plan comes together".

I'm happy to see jack tried at CHF. If it doesnt work, so be it. I just don't want to see a game plan revolve around him, or any single player. You need to be more dimensional than that.





“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Smokey

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Re: Jack out of the box - Hardwick's higher hopes for Riewoldt (RFC)
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 10:05:31 PM »

I'm happy to see jack tried at CHF. If it doesnt work, so be it. I just don't want to see a game plan revolve around him, or any single player. You need to be more dimensional than that.


Richo, anyone?