sugar

[Ox]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO@ Down Syndrome kicking in for Joel @ 35 out.

Great to see we can still pull s h i t like that off.

[letsgetiton!]

wp,
simmonds should not have played the past weeks if injured, yes, but once ur on the field ur fit , sugar is crap, and yes he did cost us as he set the standard early on and lead pathetically. all the senior group let us down and how can u say hilton was no good, he tried his guts out and had minimal stuff ups!!!!!
not sure what game u were watching but hilton went fwd back fwd back and did what he had to do!!!!!
just accept it that sugar is not the player u think he is! wells turned the game around for the roos yesterday , we could have had that true champion skillled athlete footy player in our jumper but we chose sugar, and only if u know the real reasons why the crows did not want him! cant believe we actually took him , just because he barracked 4 us as a kid, well stiff poo, so did luke hodge and shane crawford and they are guns

[WilliamPowell]

sugar is crap, and yes he did cost us as he set the standard early on and lead pathetically. all the senior group let us down

X - I have said Suga did not play well. But so did most of them. To say one person only cost us the game is ridiculous. To say he set the standard early on is off the mark because he didn't start in the centre and that's what cost us early. The simple clearance they got killed us big time and the people in the centre were Tuck. Cogs and Hyde.

and how can u say hilton was no good, he tried his guts out and had minimal stuff ups!!!!!

not sure what game u were watching but hilton went fwd back fwd back and did what he had to do!!!!!

Quite easy X - I was there saw it and his half hearted 2nd efforts were terrible. I watched part of the replay last night and the TV never gives a clear indiication of things because the TV focus in on a specific area of the game and not what's happening 5-10 metres away.  THe TV didn't show him not chasing Lappin off the HBF.

just accept it that sugar is not the player u think he is!

I accept that he played a poor game X but I will repeat he wasn't alone.

As for the Wells argument - when we traded for Johnson it was pick 4 not pick 2 - so if the picks had remained the same we still wouldn't have got Wells at 4 (why the Saints chose Goddardover Wells still staggers me). If when we traded pick 4 we defiitely knew it was going to become pick 2 we wouldn't have done it

[mightytiges]

i will not take injuries as an excuse, once ur on the ground ur fit, we play our best footy when sugar isnt playing or on the bench.
im just being realistic and adelaide let him go too easily because they knew what everyone else didnt. some players are just lucky to play grandfinals!

WP answered what I was going to say about Simmonds and blaming one person for a comprehensive loss. Sorry X, Sugar played poorly and we were lethargic (why doesn't Wallace share the blame as well if you believe Sugar was responsible. Is it not the coach's job as well to motivate?) but it ain't his nor Terry's fault that our forwards are the worse kicks at goal at crucial times. The Blues were pumping running goals and wideish set shots from 50m yet we couldn't kick straight from 20-30m out directly in front. It's a joke that at this standard blokes on $100Ks  can't perform the easiest task in footy - a set kick under no physical pressure and with no set time limit  . Add to that our lack of accountability. It's a cop out for our other players to say they need to be shown by the captain how to perform the basics of footy. What are they sheep?! What happened to pride in your own performance and responsibility for your own opponent.

As for some players being lucky to play GF - That's true in some cases (although good on them achieving their dream) but there's no luck in ending up being in the best 2-4 guys on the ground in back-to-back  winning teams.

we have 5 years to rebuild and we have wasted much of this yr by not giving many kids game time as the hawks have done!

We've had 6 debutants play this year plus given Tuck and Hyde their first full season of AFL despite being competitive for most of the year. Not bad for the reigning wooden spooner! X you are believing too much of the crap coming from Hawk fans. Luke Ball at the Saints played just one game in his first year. I had to laugh at the headline on the AFL site about the Eagles just doing enough against the Hawks on the weekend. What was it - 40 scoring shots to 14  . If the Eagles had kicked 25.12 instead of 12.25 the Hawks would have got pumped by 120 points. Add to that the Hawks had more handballs than kicks under master coach Clarkson's gameplan. Is that how you want our kids to develop? Wallace is trying to install a winning culture and a modern winning gameplan. That's why he took strips off each player individually after yesterday's game.

[letsgetiton!]

 X you are believing too much of the crap coming from Hawk fans. Luke Ball at the Saints played just one game in his first year. I had to laugh at the headline on the AFL site about the Eagles just doing enough against the Hawks on the weekend.

WHATS IS IT EXACTLY HAWKS FANS ARE SAYING? i have no idea what hawks fans say as
1/ i dont give a crap
2/ i dont have time to bother about going to any of their sites

but i do know where we finished last year and i was the one who on sen told kb  we would lose the last 14  games str8 abd the old b laughed at me! i know where we are at , and i know 100% where all the players are at , and as a captain and player, sugar has bluffed everyone. he will captain next yr but my hunch is taht will be it as captian 4 us. his disposal for a player with alleged skill os appalling, iots worse thatn tivendales but tiv gets all the flak ,as he should!
if we played on the w/e at subiaco we would have been flogged in the same manor as the hawks. i predicted 10 wins 4 us at the start of the yr, i think we will get 10, next year we will win 15 games, i understand the process more than than many believe i do, i am not expececting miracles in terrys 1st yr and i hope to god we dont make final as we need more quality draft kids.  i have been a member at the tiger since i was 14 yo, i once looked through black and yellow specs but now im comfortable to see our team as it is,
1/ we are really a side around the 10th-12th position on the ladder, anything above that means we have been lucky, still damn gr8 after last yr, which i honestly believ the players tanked it as they could not stand df as coach. bec of this they went downhill and this yr was a yr f4 terry to start catching up, thats why tehy are running out of legs at this stage, its the first yr in the last 5 they had a real pre season, their bodies are still being conditioned.
2/ we lack leaders
3/ we lack stregnth still, we still as a team cannot tackle nor break tackles
4/ we still lack footy smarts, thats bec the older players are set in their ways, u cant teach old dogs new tricks
5/ we lack hunger, the senior group proved this on saturday , and it starts with the captain.
6/ we lack an inspirational match winning captain, who can change a game with his skill, attitude and leadership

thats where we are at, still have a long way to go

[mightytiges]

WHATS IS IT EXACTLY HAWKS FANS ARE SAYING? i have no idea what hawks fans say as
1/ i dont give a crap
2/ i dont have time to bother about going to any of their sites

Sound advice X if you did read their crap . Just you saying the Hawks have got games under their kids belts reminded me of the comments made by Hawk trolls on BF's main board who reckon they've cleaned up with Roughead, Franklin and Lewis and we stuffed up not taking a KPP instead of Tambling.

he (Sugar) will captain next yr but my hunch is taht will be it as captian 4 us

I would say that was the plan all along whoever of the 4 got the gig at the start of the year. Give it to someone experienced for a couple of years then pass it on to the next generation who should hopefully be far better leaders and in greater numbers.

i predicted 10 wins 4 us at the start of the yr, i think we will get 10, next year we will win 15 games, i understand the process more than than many believe i do, i am not expececting miracles in terrys 1st yr and i hope to god we dont make final as we need more quality draft kids.  i have been a member at the tiger since i was 14 yo, i once looked through black and yellow specs but now im comfortable to see our team as it is.

Just because I don't think Sugar's a dud doesn't mean I see things through Y&B specs. I've been a Richmond supporter for 25 years (some people here have been far far longer) so after two decades of failure I know a dud when I see one lol  .

I predicted 8 wins or thereabouts at best from memory and a bottom 4 finish. I didn't think we'd beat Port and Brissy. So we've done better than I expected no matter what happens from here. IMO no way will we win 15 next year. That's top 4 material which even after another preseason under our belts we will be nowhere near. As you said X we've got a long way to go. Our draw in 2006 will be far tougher after a dream one this year and we still lack depth. Unless we have our best 22 on the field we struggle big time. Apart from Deledio the kids won't come good for another year or two at least. Plus opposition sides will know more about us and how we play under Wallace. It wouldn't surprise me if we take a step back next year and a final cleanout before moving forward again in 2007. A strong draft coming up in 2006 btw.   

1/ we are really a side around the 10th-12th position on the ladder, anything above that means we have been lucky, still damn gr8 after last yr, which i honestly believ the players tanked it as they could not stand df as coach. bec of this they went downhill and this yr was a yr f4 terry to start catching up, thats why tehy are running out of legs at this stage, its the first yr in the last 5 they had a real pre season, their bodies are still being conditioned.

Agree X with such a young side and the hard preseson we did that it's not unexpected that we would tire towards the end of the season. I would say it was our first real preseason since Northey was coach!
 

2/ we lack leaders
3/ we lack stregnth still, we still as a team cannot tackle nor break tackles
4/ we still lack footy smarts, thats bec the older players are set in their ways, u cant teach old dogs new tricks

Agree with all that.

5/ we lack hunger, the senior group proved this on saturday , and it starts with the captain.
6/ we lack an inspirational match winning captain, who can change a game with his skill, attitude and leadership

As I said before personally I think this is a cop out. If you need someone else to motivate before a vital game then you aren't up to it. Heaven forbid if it was a GF  . I agree we lack hunger. We are a confidence team. I think our boys are too nice and don't get angry enough. Even the Blues were pumped to get revenge and end our season. From the outside it doesn't look like many of our guys would return the favour. There's no intimidation factor.

[letsgetiton!]

its good we can agree on some things and its gr8 we can disagree on others. thats what makes these forums a good thing as we can all have our own opinions, im not trying to cinvince anyone to change their minds about sugar, i just am expressing my opinion about him and i guess when we have dud performances my anger and frustrations possibly could cloud my judgement.
what i do however beleive is we picked the right boys in the draft and know we are on the right track 4 a change. this year i suppose is a yr 4 terry to really analyse the players we have

[mightytiges]

Hard to knock Sugar's game today. Only one of the few that had a brain out there today in the second half and continued to run to receive and keep the ball moving.

[letsgetiton!]

Hard to knock Sugar's game today. Only one of the few that had a brain out there today in the second half and continued to run to receive and keep the ball moving.

i agree , i will give credit where its due, by far sugars best game 4 the yr. his long kicking was also more direct but his skill level still has to improve. i believe that sugar as a running onballer should kick more goals , our midfield just does not kick enough . i hope next yr, foley will develop in the in and under hard player and give sugar a chance to possibily link up and kick more goals and hopefully with rodan fit and firing we can get more goals out of our midfield. sugar myust play every game as hard as he did yesterday and then he will be a worthy captain.
cogs is a worry, i feel we should use him as trade bait for someone from the west, send him back home 4 a decent player with zip and skill. it was great seeing newnam, hyde and esp hartigan run through the lines , i really do believe we have a bright future, hopefully we get a full season and the best back from browny and draft smartly and we are up and away.

[Razorblade]

Seemed fitter this week then previously but still not 100%, there were times when he just jogging at not even half-pace.

He played a great game though!

[WilliamPowell]

Seemed fitter this week then previously but still not 100%, there were times when he just jogging at not even half-pace.

He played a great game though!

Agree Blade - there was a couple of times when he had chased hard for the first effort but then didn't have the fitness to go the second time.

Best game he's played for weeks IMO

i believe that sugar as a running onballer should kick more goals , our midfield just does not kick enough .

Spot on X, we just don't get enough goals from our entire mid-field. IMO you need at least (at a minimum) 15 goals a year from your mid-fielders. I think we'd be lucky if had 25 goals between the lot of them

[mightytiges]

i believe that sugar as a running onballer should kick more goals , our midfield just does not kick enough .

Spot on X, we just don't get enough goals from our entire mid-field. IMO you need at least (at a minimum) 15 goals a year from your mid-fielders. I think we'd be lucky if had 25 goals between the lot of them

When you look at the Eagles they have Cousins with 21.10, Fletcher 17.10 and Judd 15.22 and 9 guys who've kicked more than 15 goals for the year. With the Saints most of their goals come from their powerful forward line as Ball, Dal Santo and Hayes have kicked 9 each which is on par with Tuck and Cogs. With us we don't have either the running midfield goalkickers nor the six-prong attack to stretch opposition defences. It's Richo, Richo and Richo with us . That's why we're about 50 goals behind. The Crows have kicked as many goals as us and we've kicked more goals than the Swans have but we've conceded 88 and 67 more goals respectively

Richo        59
Brown       34 (still second even though he hasn't played for 10 weeks )
Pettifer      27
Krakouer    21
Simmonds  16
Stafford     14
Deledio      13
Cambo      12
Tuck          9
Cogs          8
Hilton         7
Tambling    6
Bowden      6
Tivs           5
Johnson     4
Knobel       4
Moore       3
Chaffey     3
Hyde         3
Newman    2
Graham     2
Kellaway    2 
Schulz       1
Meyer       1
Foley        1
Gaspar      1

[the_boy_jake]

Bottom line is we have too many soft koks and too many intellectually wacko players to make a go if it at the moment.

Essentially we have a group of players who have come to enjoy being bent over and dominated by bigger, stronger more cunning opponents, and who like nothing more than a dozen oysters before a big match.

[Razorblade]

A handful of Browns goals would be considered midfield goals.

Remember he was basically leading the goal kicking competition with Richo up until then!

[Tiger Spirit]

When you look at the Eagles they have Cousins with 21.10, Fletcher 17.10 and Judd 15.22 and 9 guys who've kicked more than 15 goals for the year. With the Saints most of their goals come from their powerful forward line as Ball, Dal Santo and Hayes have kicked 9 each which is on par with Tuck and Cogs. With us we don't have either the running midfield goalkickers nor the six-prong attack to stretch opposition defences. It's Richo, Richo and Richo with us . That's why we're about 50 goals behind. The Crows have kicked as many goals as us and we've kicked more goals than the Swans have but we've conceded 88 and 67 more goals respectively

That’s a big difference and shows some of the areas we lack in, but even though some of the stats may not look so great right now, I still think we have something more promising to look forward to in the coming seasons.  The new style of game this season may have meant we conceded more goals, but even with our deficiencies, when we were up and running earlier in the season, our percentage was reasonable, we were able to kick goals quickly and kick big scores, which are all good signs.

The Roos probably have more to worry about than us, at this stage.  In many ways, they remind me of Richmond in 2001.  They wonder why no one rates them when they have won 3 more games than Richmond, yet only kicked 10 more goals, had 103 points less kicked against them, and are 5th, with a percentage of around 99%.