Author Topic: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley  (Read 5763 times)

Offline Tiger Spirit

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Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« on: May 11, 2004, 10:51:22 AM »
Seeing Grant Thomas go about things and then watching Peter Schwab point to a few of his players at 3 quarter time against Geelong on the weekend inspired me to put fingers to keyboard.  (And no, this has nothing to do with the fact that I had the temerity to tip Hawthorn on the weekend.  What was I thinking, I ask myself?).

It’s all well and good for Peter Schwab to point the finger at his players, but perhaps he should look to see how many fingers are pointing back at him.  From my limited insight into the Hawks, the players he was pointing at have not delivered for some time now, not just last weekend’s match.  Their efforts are reflective of the approach by their match committee, I believe.  It’s great that they have faith in their players, but I doubt it’s great when it’s to their own detriment and that of the team they play for.  And the same applies to Richmond.

Rather than wanting to denigrate the efforts of anyone, I merely want to point out the differences I see in the approach of Grant Thomas, Peter Schwab and Danny Frawley.  I think most people acknowledge and agree that Peter Schwab and Danny Frawley are great blokes and you couldn’t question their commitment to their respective clubs.  However, the difference in approach by these two, compared to Grant Thomas, is of gi-normous proportions, to my way of thinking.

On paper, neither Richmond nor the Hawks are a Brisbane, on the field, or even on paper, but you would think that, given a different approach, both Clubs could produce better than they have since 2001.  And they could do worse than to take a leaf out of Grant Thomas’ book, even if it sounds like mumbo jumbo.  Because if they want the fortunes of their team to change for the better, they have to realise that change starts with them and their players need to respond or risk the consequences.  Obviously, players have to be responsible for the part the play, but somehow, the responsibility always seem to have a way of coming back to the Coach.

If anyone needs evidence of the merits of a change in approach, one only needs to see the difference that it has made to the fortunes of Melbourne this season.  Neale Daniher has changed his attitude and his team has turned things around on the field.  At least for the moment.  Whether it can be sustained is another thing, because a successful Club needs to all be pulling in the one direction.  Maybe they are starting to do that.  We will wait and see.

Things all seem like smooth sailing for the Saints right now, but when Grant Thomas took over from Malcolm Blight, there was disbelief in the football world.  When Thomas and Rod Butterss spoke, there was perhaps much rolling of the eyes and shaking of the head by those who weren’t still scratching their head at the decision.

Thomas and Butterss have a lingo all their own that is foreign to footy.  Enough to make anyone doubt they could turn their Club around or that the right call had been made on Blight.  A couple of seasons on and how things have changed and it is perhaps hard to believe that they could turn the whole culture of a Club around in such a short time.  The job is nowhere near finished, but they are a lot further down the track than some thought they could ever be.

And even though they haven’t achieved anything real just yet, the transformation, so far, is something to be proud of.  And it gives others hope that it is possible and achievable, if you have the right people with the courage of their convictions to bring about real change.

When Thomas speaks, you know he has and is still setting the standards and foundations for a successful team and therefore Club.  The transformation in his team, the progress of his young players and the maturity they show is inspiring to see.  By all accounts, he’s no strategist, but that doesn’t seem to be hampering his team at the minute.  Obviously, having players with ability is one thing, but being able to harness that and creating a united front, on and off the field, is another and helps overcome any perceived weaknesses.  Or maybe he’s learning on the job.

On the other hand, when Peter Schwab and Danny Frawley speak, you wonder where their next win is going to come from and at times you wish the season would hurry up and end, for their sake as well as their players.  Not only that, you wonder how players and teams can progress under Coaches weighed down by so much pressure, for such extended periods of time, because they seem to be forever distracted by outside influences, and things they can’t control, to ever have enough time and energy to devote to players and the long-term cause.

As unfair as it may seem that inexperienced coaches, or any Coach for that matter, could come under such intense scrutiny and criticism, the reality could turn out to be that, ultimately, all their Club’s problems turn out to be their fault.

We’ll have to wait and see whether either or both of them will become victims of their own inexperience/lack of awareness and also the inability of their Club’s to assist them to develop themselves and their players?

If neither of them is suited to the role, then that is one thing, but what you rarely get to find out is whether it’s the Clubs who aren’t prepared to recognise and acknowledge their own deficiencies.

Perhaps the fact that the same mistakes continue to be made by some Clubs and that they continue to be unsuccessful answers that to some degree.
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

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Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2004, 04:45:58 PM »
It’s all well and good for Peter Schwab to point the finger at his players, but perhaps he should look to see how many fingers are pointing back at him.  From my limited insight into the Hawks, the players he was pointing at have not delivered for some time now, not just last weekend’s match.  Their efforts are reflective of the approach by their match committee, I believe.  It’s great that they have faith in their players, but I doubt it’s great when it’s to their own detriment and that of the team they play for.  And the same applies to Richmond.



Excellent point TS. I am all for Coaches showing loyalty to their players. But at some point in time you have to say enough is enough. Why continue to be loyal to someone when they are clearly not showing you the same loyalty? How long do you continue to play players who are clearly under performing and seem to be getting a game simply because of some apparent loyalty?

You really do have to wonder what effect it has on other players. IMO it has to be detrimental to other players the witness this perceived uneven balance in the selection process.

I think that is why everyone (well the majority anyway) applauded so loudly when Bowden and Zantuck were dropped the other week. Finally it appeared that the Club wasn't going allow those who weren't delivering to get a game for the sake of it.



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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2004, 06:26:59 PM »
Top post TS.

I would say Danny and Schwab fell into that trap of having too much faith in certain players after their teams made the finals early in their coaching stints. I'd reckon from then on they believed (mistakenly) that their respective group of players were capable of challenging the top sides and failed to see the flaws in their respective teams. This was demonstrated in their recruting at the end of that year (2001). Blind freddy could see we needed to boost our midfield but we went for a bundle of forward pockets and poor ones at that (Pettifer, Hudson, Houlihan). They seemed to forget once their sides got near the top that you still need to keep improving and turning over your list  just to remain where you are as other sides will improve the following year and pass you by. Just because so and so was good in 2001 or whenever means nothing 3 years down the track. If that player is and has been underperforming for a while then it's time for the coach to act. Both Schwab and Danny have been guilty of not dropping senior players when clearly those players deserved to be. I agree with WP that that was why Tiger supporters were happy to see Joel and Ty dropped. It's about time continually poor efforts and attitudes were not tolerated. Amazingly we then win our next 2 games and IMO Joel's game although not big stats-wise was pleasing from the viewpoint he put his body on the line at the bottom of packs and finally showed some urgency in his footy. 

   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2004, 06:28:38 PM by mightytiges »
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Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2004, 12:30:11 PM »
I think that is why everyone (well the majority anyway) applauded so loudly when Bowden and Zantuck were dropped the other week. Finally it appeared that the Club wasn't going allow those who weren't delivering to get a game for the sake of it.

I was celebrating, I know that much WP.  I think we need to see more of that, as it sends a clear message to the players (and also supporters) that we’re no longer going to accept mediocrity.  Because we can’t keep rewarding players for half-hearted efforts and then expect to play finals footy.

You can’t really measure the affect that not dropping players who aren’t performing has on other players, but you would think it is possible for it to have a negative affect on them.  For players who set high standards for themselves and are self-motivated, this may not be so much of an issue, but for others it can have a negative affect on the way they train, play and present themselves.  It’s not the sole reason for the way we have performed, but it’s likely that it’s a contributing factor.
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

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Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2004, 12:34:47 PM »
They seemed to forget once their sides got near the top that you still need to keep improving and turning over your list  just to remain where you are as other sides will improve the following year and pass you by.

Agree with your post MT.  I guess we paid the price of inexperience at the Club and that’s why many consider Greg Miller to be so important at the moment, because he adds that knowledge and experience that has been missing.  And if you can’t get what you need in one package (as a Coach or any other capacity for that matter), then Clubs need to be smart enough to compensate for any perceived weaknesses, or suffer the consequences, as we did.
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

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Offline Harry

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2004, 06:28:03 PM »
In his entire time at Richmond Frawley has only ever dropped 2 senior regulars in Knights and Richo (before bowden and Zantuck).  Knights was dropped for personal reasons and Richo for disciplinary reasons.  Before dropping Bowden and Zantuck it was documented that Frawley would have to try something new and something he has never done before - that is to drop a regular senior player due to poor form.  This on its own suggests the type of lackluster, pathetic, mediocre environment and culture he has injected into the place.  Once a player has established himself in the inner sanctum they can merely switch into cruise control mode.  Is it any wonder that, along with poor recruiting and a poor game plan, that we have become the laughing stock.

How can "dropping a senior player" be a last resort decision?  This is astonishing when we are trying to compete with the Brisbane's and the essendons of the world.  The bombers string 3-4 wins in a row and a veteran and dual premiership player in Mercuri is dropped due to poor form.  Is it any wonder that Sheeds is a great coach ??  If Frawley wants to really get fairdinkum he needs to drop poor performing regulars like Gaspar and Chaffey, not promote Bowden who was very average for Coburg the week before..........beleive me I was there and he was average.
Does anyone have half an idea on anything?

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2004, 06:54:40 PM »
May I post the first,
Here,hear Harry.

Offline Struggletown

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Re: Grant Thomas vs Peter Schwab/Danny Frawley
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2004, 11:17:14 PM »
agree too Harry....prefer your pee wee herman avatar though ;)
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