Aussie Rules rules

[Moi]

Does anyone know if there is a set of rules the AFL puts out about the game?
I'm specifically asking to see if there's a rule about having 19 men on the ground and whether it's actually in their rules and what the penalty is.

My dear old mum has been saying "bloody AFL" all week, because she says she remembers our Under 19s in the '70s having points taken off them for the same thing.

Any historians out there (Rhett et al) who would know if this did happen, and whether or not it is a precedent worth fighting.

[mightytiges]

Here you go Moi

http://www.afl.com.au/Portals/0/afl_docs/Development/umpiring/Laws%20of%20football_2008.pdf



5.5 COUNTING OF PLAYERS

5.5.1 request by Captain
The captain or acting captain of a Team may at any time during a Match request that the field Umpire count the number of Players of the opposing Team who are on the Playing Surface.

5.5.2 Procedure
(a) Where a request is made under Law 5.5.1, the field Umpire shall:
(i) stop play at the first available opportunity;
(ii) call into line within the Centre Square the Players of both Teams who are at the time on the Playing Surface and
count the number of Players;
(iii) upon completing the count, ensure that each Team has the permitted number of Players on the Playing Surface and then recommence play at the position on the Playing Surface where the field Umpire stopped play; and
(iv) as soon as practicable after the Match, report to the Controlling Body that a request has been made to count the number of Players in a Team and the number of Players actually counted.

(b) The maximum number of Players permitted on the Playing Surface at the same time is 18 per team or, in circumstances where a Player(s) has been ordered from the Playing Surface under Law 20, 18 less the Player(s) ordered from the Playing Surface.

5.5.3 Players exceeding Permitted Number
Where a Team has more than the permitted number of Players on the Playing Surface, the following shall apply:
(a) a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick to the captain or acting captain of the opposing Team, which shall be taken at the Centre Circle or where play was stopped, whichever is the greater penalty against the offending Team;
(b) a Fifty-Metre Penalty shall then be imposed from the position where the Free Kick was awarded; and
(c) the Team shall lose all points which it has scored in the Match up to the time of the count.

5.5.4 Correct Number and request Without merit
Where a count reveals that the opposing Team has the permitted number of Players on the Playing Surface, the following shall apply:
(a) a field Umpire shall award a Free Kick to the captain or acting captain of the opposing Team, which shall be taken at the Centre Circle or where play was stopped, whichever is the greater penalty against the offending Team;
(b) a Fifty-Metre Penalty shall then be imposed from the position where the Free Kick was awarded; and
(c) if a field Umpire is of the opinion that a request was made under Law 5.5.1 primarily to delay play or such request did not have sufficient merit, the field Umpire shall report the Player who requested the count for Time Wasting under Law 19.2.2.

[WilliamPowell]

Also important to note that the "bloody AFL"  change this rule during the course of the season after the Sydney fiasco at Telstra dome 

[Moi]

5.5.3 ....
(c) the Team shall lose all points which it has scored in the Match up to the time of the count.

You're amazing, MT  
Well, did the AFL take their scores away?
If they did, they would have lost I'd imagine.
North should get four points and Swans taken four off them.
Surely if that's their rules, it's fightable in a court I would have thought.

Whether a club wants to go that route is another story though

But they did win a game they didn't deserve, so much of a muchness.

[Moi]

Also important to note that the "bloody AFL"  change this rule during the course of the season after the Sydney fiasco at Telstra dome 

Being after the fact, surely the result could still be contestable.
Thieving bastards lol
They'd do anything to get Sydney in the finals 

[mightytiges]

5.5.3 (c) the Team shall lose all points which it has scored in the Match up to the time of the count.

So the Swans would now have 2 points less plus a lower % if Adam Simpson had called for a player count that night...

                        For   Agst    %    Pts
Now:               1981 1810 109.4  46

If rule applied: 1917 1810  105.9 44

Still if the Swans beat Brisbane this weekend then it wouldn't have made a difference anyway.

[Infamy]

Well, did the AFL take their scores away?
If they did, they would have lost I'd imagine.
North should get four points and Swans taken four off them.
Surely if that's their rules, it's fightable in a court I would have thought.

The rule specifies that the captain needs to call for a head count
He didn't therefore the rule doesn't apply

End of story, nothing we can do about it

[Moi]

How did they find out they had too many men on the ground?
Someone must have done a count.
And if the umpire should have called the captain to do it, then they've still stuffed up.
I don't get why we can't pursue it.

Too late to pursue it, I guess, and probably not in the right spirit, but you can be damned sure we would have lost our points if the same thing had happened to us.

[mightytiges]

It's an archaic rule from the 19th century. The Swans had 19 men for 30 seconds before realising it themselves IIRC. Virtually impossible for someone off-field to first tell the runner who then has to find the captain who then has to forget about the play and his man to find an umpire who then needs to notify the other two umps and other players to stop the game. Like that is going to be able to be done in 30 seconds. Imagine the farce if Simpson did call for a player count and by the time the umps knew about it and stopped the game the Swans had already pulled off the 19th man and North had a free paid against them which end up giving the Swans the winning goal/point.

[Moi]

It's an archaic rule from the 19th century. The Swans had 19 men for 30 seconds before realising it themselves IIRC. Virtually impossible for someone off-field to first tell the runner who then has to find the captain who then has to forget about the play and his man to find an umpire who then needs to notify the other two umps and other players to stop the game. Like that is going to be able to be done in 30 seconds. Imagine the farce if Simpson did call for a player count and by the time the umps knew about it and stopped the game the Swans had already pulled off the 19th man and North had a free paid against them which end up giving the Swans the winning goal/point.

Then 5.5.4(c) would have applied then and reported for time wasting 

Hey, it would have been nice to play finals.

Oh well 

[Infamy]

How did they find out they had too many men on the ground?
Someone must have done a count.

TV replays after the fact
The swans did pick it up obviously, and I think Laidley said that he noticed it, but it had been fixed by the time anything could have been done about it