Author Topic: Official Team for Round 14  (Read 5197 times)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2011, 03:46:03 AM »
Helbig not an emergency anymore, he's been replaced with Nason.
Perhaps a late change with Kingy missing at ground level up forward or is Helbig injured?
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Offline WA Tiger

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2011, 02:45:08 PM »
Well 20 points down at qtr time.......c'mon boys..where is the heart!!!!!!!!!
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Offline WA Tiger

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2011, 02:56:31 PM »
Martin and Cotchin must start getting involved in these games earlier!!
DIMMA - You will be held ACCOUNTABLE...

“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

Offline Penelope

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2011, 06:57:47 PM »
MT, do you really think miller is being played because he is more likely to help us win games than post? I thought you didnt rate him as a player? :P

Quote
But for us, it's all about getting our process right.

Quote
Hardwick said the ongoing refinement of the Tigers' game plan remains his priority rather than the more immediate goal of winning on Saturday which could elevate the club into the top eight

post is not getting a go for one of two reasons that i can think of.

Dimma and the rest of the coaching staff simply do not like him personally?

or he is not doing the things that "get the processes right"?

I doubt too many people would argue against post having more ability than miller, but miller can follow instructions and provide structure.

It seems that post cant. to gift him games for the sake of it, while this is the case, is not development, its counter development.

To me the constant calls to drop miller, for whomever, are short sighted. as long as he plays how the coaches want,  following instructions and work rate, then it is up to the more talented youngsters to follow his lead and they will naturally push him out of the side. When they do they will have earned their spot and to me that is development for the longer term.


But al Miller was recruited onto the rookie list as insurance (in case Jack say went down with injury) yet he's now playing game after game ahead of young talls such as Post who were already on our senior list even though there is no need to play that 'insurance' card given Jack and Vickery have kicked 60 goals between them. There's an inconsistent message there to now expect the youngsters to push out an older player who was only drafted as insurance in the first place and isn't part of our future.  I know Post has his deficiencies (low number of tackles being one of them) but even if Miller follows instructions his own many deficiencies and age don't have him ahead of our youngsters for mine with the future in mind. He's just a list clogger. We went down this path in the past with Mark Graham who had a good final year in 2005 playing in our defence but it did sweet stuff all for the team going forward as after the older player leaves you then need to play a younger player in that same position playing to the same structures in any case but a year later and with a year less development at AFL level. IMO players who aren't part of our future should not be in the side.

The only tall miller is keeping out is post and my guess is post is keeping himself out of the team.
Miller sets the example of work rate following instructions etc, it is up to post to follow that example. develop[pment is not all about just getting a run in the seniors it's about following team rules and structures. Imagine what sort of player rich would have been had he had some disiplin installed in him at a younger age.

As i've said before, there is no denying that post is more talented than miller, but talent will only get you so far. Obviously post is not in favour with the coaching staff so to just gift him games is counter productive for the long term and the short term. It is up to post to rectify what ever it is keeping him out of favour it really as simple as that.

As for "not being part of the future" a hawthorn poster on big foot yput it nicely when he said how hardwick will be giving games to those that he thinks will be part of a succesful team as well as thos that will play a part in getting the team to where it needs to be. There will always be players who are not part of the long term future who play an important role in developing the team how the coaches want and obviously they see miller in the later role.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think development is just throwing players into the seniors, even if they do not earn it, or a multi faceted approach based on individual assessment of players and acting accordingly. There is so much we will never have privy to in relation this.

It really doesnt do anyone any harm to serve an apprenticeship at the lower level. If anything it strengthens their resolve and sorts out those who have what it takes and those that don't. Only those of a strong character will take the club to success and perhaps post doesnt have this, which means that he will not be part of the future?
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Offline Willy

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2011, 07:00:51 PM »


development is not all about just getting a run in the seniors it's about following team rules and structures.
.... It is up to post to rectify what ever it is keeping him out of favour it really as simple as that.


Well said, Al.  :thumbsup

Offline Smokey

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2011, 08:02:09 PM »


development is not all about just getting a run in the seniors it's about following team rules and structures.
.... It is up to post to rectify what ever it is keeping him out of favour it really as simple as that.


Well said, Al.  :thumbsup

x 2

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2011, 08:51:18 PM »


development is not all about just getting a run in the seniors it's about following team rules and structures.
.... It is up to post to rectify what ever it is keeping him out of favour it really as simple as that.


Well said, Al.  :thumbsup

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Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2011, 10:12:24 PM »


development is not all about just getting a run in the seniors it's about following team rules and structures.
.... It is up to post to rectify what ever it is keeping him out of favour it really as simple as that.


Well said, Al.  :thumbsup

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Hogwash!!! IF that's the case get rid of him because he obviously isn't following instruction.

IMO put him in the seniors and give him 5 or more games straight better he than Miller waste of time. If he's no good then get rid of him. The ONLY way to find out for sure is to throw him in the deep end. 
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Offline yellowandback

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2011, 10:12:43 PM »
"I suppose it comes down to whether you think development is just throwing players into the seniors, even if they do not earn it, or a multi faceted approach based on individual assessment of players and acting accordingly. There is so much we will never have privy to in relation this."

That was a good post al (pardon the pun). My issue with Miller is that he is currently being gifted games for listening to instructions that he isn't capable of executing properly. So he has the intent but not the capability. Post has the capabilities but not the intent. I'm not sure why one deserves position in the side over the other.
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2011, 07:58:05 AM »
Y + B ,one deserves a game over the other because intent is something that a person can change, whereas talent you have to take what you are given.

Miller will get the best out himself, even if his best is not that great. If post can get the best out himself then he will be a much better player and at the end of the day all you can ask is for a player to be the best he can. That is the culture we want to develop and a culture that will see the cream rise to the top and a real chance of success, even though mr Tigra would much prefer to see talented players just cruising around and contributing to continued underperformance

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Official Team for Round 14
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2011, 11:05:26 AM »
Y + B ,one deserves a game over the other because intent is something that a person can change, whereas talent you have to take what you are given.

Miller will get the best out himself, even if his best is not that great. If post can get the best out himself then he will be a much better player and at the end of the day all you can ask is for a player to be the best he can. That is the culture we want to develop and a culture that will see the cream rise to the top and a real chance of success, even though mr Tigra would much prefer to see talented players just cruising around and contributing to continued underperformance


IF we had a stand alone reserves team as Geelong and Collingwood currently do and IF you have decent depth in your list as Geelong and Collingwood do then you HAVE the luxury of spending valuable time developing players through the reserves to your teams structures and teach them exactly what you want them to do as if they were in the senior squad. A senior player goes down and these teams have a ready made replacement. Yes perfect world.
At Richmond we have coburg where we have players played out of postion to a different style, game plan and substandard league and players. Now Post has been on our list since 2009 and I think he will develop alot quicker in the deep end at senior level. Melbourne was in a similar situation as us with Watts. There was alot of critisism of the club playing him when he was supposedly not ready or not up to it or lack of confidence etc. But now that he has improved those same people are applauding his improvement and Melbourne for playing him.
Until this club gets a stand alone reserves team and depth to our list we need to see who from these youngsters can play otherwise like Miller, it is a complete waste of time.     
Bring in Post and Griffiths if they're not injured and teach them in the seniors whilst we still can afford to lose due to our "development phase".
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