Which weaknesses must your club address ahead of 2015? ...... (afl site)

[the claw]

It doesn't matter what vlastuin is currently it matters what he can be.

Gordon plays hff / wing is midfield given flooding and zones.

Mcdonuts will go thou the guts at stages

Shane edwards has excellent inside mid stats.

Foley best is ahead of him given his injury history, he isnt playing on a leg with no muscle.

Conca is serviceable

Ellis is outside but very good at what he does.

There seems to be speculation arnot will be on the list next season



A grade:    martin deledio cotchin

Future: a grade:    miles. Vlastuin

Could always use a dangerfield but it's not as bad as you cry

Senior team: chronic shortage of senior mids.


Grimes.   Astbury.   Morris.   
Vlastuin.   Rance.   Ellis.   
Miles.   Deledio.   Hunt.   
Lennon.   Griffiths.   Conca.   
Riewoldt.   McBean.   ShaneEdwards.   
Maric.   Martin.   Cotchin.   

Foley
Knights
Donuts
Houli.

lots of flankers there  but hey  if you can force the square peg in the round hole it must be the right  fit eh.

now do a seconds team the team is supposed to mirror what we want in the seniors. it supposed to full of juniors and development players. theres just two outright mids available for the seconds

best 22 you wont like it because its not based on what players may become, blind faith and a wing and a prayer doesnt cut it with me. its picked on PERFORMANCE.Mids are those with a #.
flankers who can rotate thru the middle but are primarily flankers are those with a **. once again there is a ditinction to be made when talking about mid numbers. when i say we need 18 mids i mean proven out and out mids. if some can play on the flanks even better.

FB/ MORRIS - ASTBURY - CHAPLIN.
HB/ HOULI - RANCE - VLASTUIN.**

R/ MARIC  -  COTCHIN# - MILES#
C/ ELLIS # - MARTIN# - GRIGG#

HF/ PETTERD - VICKERY - EDWARDS**.
FF/ GRIFFITHS - RIEWOLDT - DELEDIO#

INT. HUNT# - KNIGHTS ** - THOMAS# - FOLEY#. Theres 9 out and out mids in the team.


MAGOOS
FB/  GRIMES - XXXXX -  DEA.  WHERES THE DEVELOPING F/B. WHERES THE SHUT DOWN SML/MED DEF.
HB/ MCINTOSH- ELTON - BATCHELOR.

R/ HAMPSON - CONCA# - ARNOT#
C/ GORDON** - XXXXX - XXXXX.

HF/ LENNON** - XXXXX - MCDONOUGH**
FF/    LLOYD - XXXXX -  MCBEAN.

INT/ XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX - XXXXX. INTERCHANGE HOULD HAVE AT LEAST 3 MIDS

NOW LOOK AT THOSE TEAMS  AND TELL ME IN ALL HONESTY THAT WE DONT LACK IN THE AREAS I HAVE MENTIONED.

[Judge Roughneck]

Foley best is ahead of him given his injury history, he isnt playing on a leg with no muscle.

So you think we'll see a 30 year-old Foley, after years of injuries, deliver performances even better than his efforts of 2007-8?

Not as good as when he was rippin on state of origin games.

But better than last few years if his body canbhold upxould be excellent foil

[the claw]

And yet common snse says a 29yo  veteran who has had so much wear and tear and injury during the course of his career the only way is down.
id hope they plan for this rather than him regaining form he has not got back to for what 5 6 7yrs.
hes a depth player now and we should have a succession plan in place for when hes gone. but we dont.

[Judge Roughneck]

lots of flankers there  but hey  if you can force the square peg in the round hole it must be the right  fit eh.

This is a bit of a different philosophical discussion. Given the trend of the game tactically. almost all non kpp are mids or at least should have the ability to go into the middle as a rotation. look at hawthorns best players and they go back/mid/fwd burgoye / hodge etc. is deledio a square peg?

now do a seconds team the team is supposed to mirror what we want in the seniors. it supposed to full of juniors and development players. theres just two outright mids available for the seconds

indeed

i am getting to this i am just eager to clarify your view on the senior team initially



one could argue

x3  Martin Deledio Cotchin
 x1 Maric
 x2 Miles Vlastuin

is 6/10 'A Grade' or there about, or potentially so

riewoldt and rance; the bookends are also fairly highly regarded in the wider afl community




                           - [morris]
            - rance
miles    - cotchin - vlastuin
                            - [hunt]
            - reiwoldt
maric - deledio - martin



8/ the starting 18 in the higher of the talent brackets. given the age and upside this seems a strong core


McBean
Griffiths/Vickery
Grimes
Astbury


young kpp. no doubt the long term view should be to improve on every position. but they are young, high draft picks. they require time,



astbury - grimes - [morris]
            - rance
miles    - cotchin - vlastuin
             - griffiths - [hunt]
mcbean - reiwoldt
maric - deledio - martin


for the remaining you fill in the positions with 'smalls' , mids / 'flankers' you rate highly, and probable Morris and hunt as specialist position players small back and tagger respectively

chronic shortage of decent mids  both inside and out.

if you consider the options there are many for the remaining spots

for the senior side assuming the list is fully fit - your statement is not accurate imo

no doubt some of the b and c graders need to kick on you lol'ing at the like of shane edwards for having excellent inside midfield statistics inst helping the cause

KPF.   riewoldt.   Mcbean.   Griffiths.   Vickery.   Elton.   

Mid-fwd.   Lennon.    Knights.    Lloyd

mcbean vickery and griffiths are all 200cm ruck fwds, there is a distinction to be made. elton is being groomed as a kpd and looks like he will either make it there or fail all together.so cross him off the list.
we are short of kpfs just 1  and have an abundance of 200cm ruck fwds of which all 3 to date are not real good either as a ruckman or as a fwd. 2 kpfs 194 - 197cm  are needed and at the least 1 tall fwd 190-194 cm.

lennon knights lloyd are all med/sml fwds. you can add petterd, gordon mcdonough  and maybe knights to the med/sml fwd list none are yet to show they are top notch or even anything better than a battler.

What is wrong with riewoldt and a fleet of 200cm talks? Maric Vickery Griff bean

Why do you want them to be short?

?

you dont think riewoldt + a plethora of 200cm fwds + martin/lennon/deledio/cotchin types would be a difficult match up for a backline ?

as a defender you would rather them smaller i think...

in many ways you reflect exactly our supporters. bnitch moan groan about many players but when push comes to shove defend en all to the hilt.

The problem is you view is extremists

failing to acknowledge shane edwards has been decent. cracking it for out key position forwards for being too tall

And yet common snse says a 29yo  veteran who has had so much wear and tear and injury during the course of his career the only way is down.
id hope they plan for this rather than him regaining form he has not got back to for what 5 6 7yrs.
hes a depth player now and we should have a succession plan in place for when hes gone. but we dont.

Foley is not your average case. His best was a life time ago. His body has been shot forever. Once again, he finally seems to be coming good. I would give him another season before putting a bullet in him. I am not saying hes going to be a star but he might be best 22 and he may be serviceable when miles and co. are getting attention. if you looked at the state of his leg as he playing you would want to give him more time i would think.

arnot and or helbig was ideal replacement / cover / upgrade i thought lol

unfortunate you cant have a graders everywhere, and cover them with a graders

and unfortunate the powers to be have a fetish for newman grigg thomas types

[Judge Roughneck]

best 22 you wont like it because its not based on what players may become, blind faith

its not all blind faith. practicality too

given the salary cap, drafting, inability to buy new players, only so many spots on the list etc. you have to have hope high draft picks ala vlastuin / lennon will come good, and play them for the long term

and a wing and a prayer doesnt cut it with me.

maybe so but the wing is midfield hence ellis is a midfielder even if an outside one

FB/ MORRIS - ASTBURY - CHAPLIN.
HB/ HOULI - RANCE - VLASTUIN.**

R/ MARIC  -  COTCHIN# - MILES#
C/ ELLIS # - MARTIN# - GRIGG#

HF/ PETTERD - VICKERY - EDWARDS**.
FF/ GRIFFITHS - RIEWOLDT - DELEDIO#

INT. HUNT# - KNIGHTS ** - THOMAS# - FOLEY#.

a secondary downside of houli, grigg, petterd, thomas as well as being low on ability is they are also inflexible

morris you can excuse, imo

then theres the gaping holes in the list.
chronic shortage of decent mids  both inside and out. the lack of both a kpf and a tall fwd. the lack of a back up ruckman, no sml fwd of note in fact not even a med fwd of note.
just one tall defender and the total lack of cover in the area. the lack of sml and med def who are well rounded and can provide both defence  rebound and dont panic under pressure.

So we dont have Mids, inside or out, Kp forwards, back up ruckman, Small fowards, Med fowards, enough tall backs, capable med backs or small backs. 

Looks like we need a list of 60 then to get all these extra players. Im not saying the the quality of all the players is top notch or that we shouldnt look at improving but really claw. There is a difference between how you see this list and how I do. Not every player will be top class player on any list, that's by shear definition. You don't rate anybody hardly and you don't get to the finals without more than half a dozen reasonable players. Going by the list above we only have about half a dozen.  Its getting really old.

did i say we dont have. no i said we have a chronic shortage in all of the areas i listed.

have a look at the tall fwds we have and we dont have many, we could easily upgrade our kpf stocks with only riewoldt a top level player.

how ?

[the claw]

sorry judge i know you made an effort there. but i cant keep on doing this.you do my head in.
while there are some things i agree with, the fact is  we are miles away , how to say it oh yeah philisophically we disagree.

i have to admit i cant work you out or your logic. there is no consistency and there is a deep bias against players who may be poor but actually out perform younger players.
you consistently rate unproven players and those kids that have performed to an acdeptable level are all potential a graders . yet mature players who consistenly give more than the kids on game day are lambasted probably rightly so.

me i think we havs a real lack of depth in most areas  a lack of quality to go with it  and i dont buy into this play the kids rhetoric.if they cant out perform players who are hacks and force em out, how can you then say hey this kid is going to be an a grader. most likely that kid will be delisted in good richmond style that is after 6 or 7 yrs.

sorry mate we do disagree and are miles apart and i just cant be bothered going around in circles with you. so we will just have to agree to disagree.

[Judge Roughneck]

We dont have to agree what a flanker and a midfielder that's OK.

My logic is simply I don't think things are as bad as what you allude to, specifically byhr quote of yours flullytiger quoted.

There is no bias  - I agree often the list blockers out perform the kids. I simply think the kids should be getting a game based on upside as opposed to peoplewho will likely not improve.

I've only claimed miles and vlastuin are potential a grade .

Of course there is a lack of quality and depth . no thinks thongs are perfect. Just cause you have an ultra pessimistic view doesn't mean you are correct

[Yeahright]

Good luck to whoever reads this page

[Fluffy Tiger]

Good luck to whoever reads this page

I have given up.  How can you argue when quality and quantity are mixed.  Were you can't include players because they are likely to fail. Were a tall I foward is not because he can help out rucking. We're we are short on this number of a type of players on some self declared perfect list structure.  We're we compare a structure of 44 players with a current list of 36 ( I think,  not totally sure).  Were players are pigeonholed in to types that are impossible to cross. Were negatively is the norm.  Not going to bother any more.