Author Topic: Mediocrity still reigns  (Read 7619 times)

Offline Eat_em_Alive

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2012, 12:08:43 PM »
They are great Daniel, I still think a fully fit Collingwood would beat them though. imo the gears are only starting to turn for the pies

would love to see otherwise  ;D
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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2012, 12:13:45 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.

Offline rfctigers05

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2012, 12:37:37 PM »
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2012, 01:03:15 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.

Il give you some good examples of medicority and why we dont play finals.

e.g 1. Mcguane 3 year deal 450k or whatever it was. Average football wont take us anywhere yet still gets a game ahead of youth. why?

e.g 2. Daniel Jackson. 6th yr average footballer. Shows toughness but thats it. Is STILL in the leadership group.
Signed up for 2 yrs pre season why? What incentive did he have to get better???????????


e.g 3. Shane Tuck made an example of last year where really he is one of very few who does what is asked most weeks.

e.g 4. White/Edwards/Graham etc  Why are these blokes still on our list. Few good games and yep here they are again.

e.g 5. Miller. For weeks i couldnt see any sense in playing him ahead of Brett O and Elton

When poo comes hit the fan about 6 weeks ago all of a sudden we saw Miller get dropped and young guys getting game time.
Go back and see that some of us knew this would happen after a few injuries.
Geelong great example of selecting a first gamer here and there during season proper then watch them grow as the year gets on. (Smedts/Duncan).
This IMO was the biggest mistake hardwick has made this year, not blodding enough youngsters.

No matter how poor some of the players mentioned above have been i really believe that most other clubs wouldnt have lost the games we did and in the manner that we did.

Other clubs wouldve made more than 2 finals in 30 years.

Depth can only help our list. Its Culture that makes a club and we dont have it when we have Jackson and co still in the leadership group and Jack R crying like a biatch when he doesnt get his own way


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Offline WA Tiger

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2012, 01:11:20 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.

Il give you some good examples of medicority and why we dont play finals.

e.g 1. Mcguane 3 year deal 450k or whatever it was. Average football wont take us anywhere yet still gets a game ahead of youth. why?

e.g 2. Daniel Jackson. 6th yr average footballer. Shows toughness but thats it. Is STILL in the leadership group.
Signed up for 2 yrs pre season why? What incentive did he have to get better???????????


e.g 3. Shane Tuck made an example of last year where really he is one of very few who does what is asked most weeks.

e.g 4. White/Edwards/Graham etc  Why are these blokes still on our list. Few good games and yep here they are again.

e.g 5. Miller. For weeks i couldnt see any sense in playing him ahead of Brett O and Elton

When poo comes hit the fan about 6 weeks ago all of a sudden we saw Miller get dropped and young guys getting game time.
Go back and see that some of us knew this would happen after a few injuries.
Geelong great example of selecting a first gamer here and there during season proper then watch them grow as the year gets on. (Smedts/Duncan).
This IMO was the biggest mistake hardwick has made this year, not blodding enough youngsters.

No matter how poor some of the players mentioned above have been i really believe that most other clubs wouldnt have lost the games we did and in the manner that we did.

Other clubs wouldve made more than 2 finals in 30 years.

Depth can only help our list. Its Culture that makes a club and we dont have it when we have Jackson and co still in the leadership group and Jack R crying like a biatch when he doesnt get his own way

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Offline yellowandback

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2012, 01:58:49 PM »
"It looks as though we have very dumb football players playing for us but I ask would those players made the same fundamental errors if playing at Collingwood or Hawthorn or the Swans."

Pretty sure the Hawks had Tiger jumpers underneath last night, no other way to explain that last minute.
Very good y&b.

Let me ask you something.......
Will hawthorn and Geelong play finals?
Or do they only dream about playing finals?

Both teams have proven they have great culture over a number of years.
My point is we don't have a good culture as yet.

My point FWIW, intent and capability don't always work in concert, it appears you think if you have the right culture if you have one (intent) the other just follows (referencing magpies circa 2002/03).
That makes me  :huh
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2012, 04:25:08 PM »
"It looks as though we have very dumb football players playing for us but I ask would those players made the same fundamental errors if playing at Collingwood or Hawthorn or the Swans."

Pretty sure the Hawks had Tiger jumpers underneath last night, no other way to explain that last minute.
Very good y&b.

Let me ask you something.......

Will hawthorn and Geelong play finals?
Or do they only dream about playing finals?

Both teams have proven they have great culture over a number of years.
My point is we don't have a good culture as yet.

This i agree with, and it is a vastly different thing to saying we still have the same culture that permeated the club under wallace
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So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2012, 04:48:09 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.

Il give you some good examples of medicority and why we dont play finals.

e.g 1. Mcguane 3 year deal 450k or whatever it was. Average football wont take us anywhere yet still gets a game ahead of youth. why?

e.g 2. Daniel Jackson. 6th yr average footballer. Shows toughness but thats it. Is STILL in the leadership group.
Signed up for 2 yrs pre season why? What incentive did he have to get better???????????


e.g 3. Shane Tuck made an example of last year where really he is one of very few who does what is asked most weeks.

e.g 4. White/Edwards/Graham etc  Why are these blokes still on our list. Few good games and yep here they are again.

e.g 5. Miller. For weeks i couldnt see any sense in playing him ahead of Brett O and Elton

When poo comes hit the fan about 6 weeks ago all of a sudden we saw Miller get dropped and young guys getting game time.
Go back and see that some of us knew this would happen after a few injuries.
Geelong great example of selecting a first gamer here and there during season proper then watch them grow as the year gets on. (Smedts/Duncan).
This IMO was the biggest mistake hardwick has made this year, not blodding enough youngsters.

No matter how poor some of the players mentioned above have been i really believe that most other clubs wouldnt have lost the games we did and in the manner that we did.

Other clubs wouldve made more than 2 finals in 30 years.

Depth can only help our list. Its Culture that makes a club and we dont have it when we have Jackson and co still in the leadership group and Jack R crying like a biatch when he doesnt get his own way

Yep 100% correct  :clapping

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2012, 06:47:08 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.
You Said all teams were in the same boat when it came to late picks in the draft. You told us to look it up. I gave you 2 examples of teams that had done ok with late picks and you haven't replied.
I'm still waiting. It's on another thread.
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the claw

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2012, 07:30:09 PM »
"It looks as though we have very dumb football players playing for us but I ask would those players made the same fundamental errors if playing at Collingwood or Hawthorn or the Swans."

Pretty sure the Hawks had Tiger jumpers underneath last night, no other way to explain that last minute.
Very good y&b.

Let me ask you something.......

Will hawthorn and Geelong play finals?
Or do they only dream about playing finals?

Both teams have proven they have great culture over a number of years.
My point is we don't have a good culture as yet.

This i agree with, and it is a vastly different thing to saying we still have the same culture that permeated the club under wallace
it sure is vastly different to what hes been saying.

i wonder when it changes again. thing is when you look at the list and the kpis that govern onfield success we are a good chance to miss finals again next yr unless of course we manage to bring in a load of decent experienced players and kids who are ready to go. thats just the state of the list atm.

winning culture is nothing more than actually having enough players capable of winning games of footy for you. we just dont have enough. geelong and hawthorn just happen to have very good depth and their fair share of a and b graders with lots of experience and lots of players who are in the right age brackets with plenty of games behind them. they have depth and very good structures. they win games of footy most of the time because they have the players capable of winning most of the time.

recruit well build a strong list and develop well and winning culture will take care of itself. you cant win games of footy with out the cattle even if your culture is excellent.

daniel and others constantly criticise  players and in most cases the players deserve criticiseing that part they have right.
what they have wrong is expecting to win games with the very players they criticise.

on different sites this yr and previous yrs ive had to argue that  teams like nm game was a 50/50 game or worse. gc was a 50/50 game brisbane was always a 50/50 game gws was always going to be a test melbourne 50/50 need i go on. why  but blokes like daniel argue we should win it.

only when we get enough players into the a and b categories. that is our fair share of elite and very good players.
 only when we get enough decent players with enough games behind them.  only when we have enough older heads and bigger bodies in the right age groups. 
only when we build some depth and enough of the kids develop over a 3 or 4 yr period and become good consistent players  will we become a genuine finals contender and not a minute before.

focusing on the win loss column ignores all these things and more and really is irrelevant until we actually tick all of these boxes.

if mediocrity is tantamount to players and some individuals not being good enough then yes we have our fair share of mediocrity. in saying that we most certainly have had our faoir share of improvement in many key areas and we just need to keep on working on areas that we need to do better at. this has not changed one bit not since the start of the yr or now.

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2012, 08:59:18 PM »
Get rid of mediocrity and average players play better. You can even make finals.

Then you get the mix right to push for a premiership.
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the claw

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Re: Mediocrity still reigns
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2012, 11:34:43 PM »
have read this thread thru and i dont get it.
people are stating quite correctly that theres plenty of mediocrity at richmond. yet in the same breath are bemoaning we arent in finals, 
 geez we are either mediocre hence we arent in finals or we arent mediocre and should be in finals which one is it.

personally i think people are pointing the finger at the wrong targets we have far too many mediocre footballers who will always fail when push comes to shove. imo over the last 3 seasons we are slowly but surely rectifying that problem but it takes time.
You Said all teams were in the same boat when it came to late picks in the draft. You told us to look it up. I gave you 2 examples of teams that had done ok with late picks and you haven't replied.
I'm still waiting. It's on another thread.
yes all teams are in the same boat. did you look up the overall succes rate or did you just t take a couple of isolated instances.

 as i said on the other thread just useing rookies as an example there have been nearly 1000 players taken in the rookie draft just how many have been successful picks you do the work and tell me. im willing to bet it would be close to or just either side of  1 in 6. i have clearly said picks after the third round  in the nd would not be much better.

ive answered on the other thread so keep your knickers on  im not here at your beck and call i have other things to do than just post on this forum.