Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading

[Judge Roughneck]

http://www.drexel.edu/%7E/media/Files/now/pdfs/Institutionalizing%20Delay%20-%20Climatic%20Change.ashx

That'sthe original paper. Look forward to bearing why moronic

[dwaino]

just wondering..what would it take climate sceptics to change their mind on this issue.
I have sat on the fence on this for a while,but I just see the evidence as just  too overwhelming to ignore now

Plenty are conservative christian types and will never change their minds since the bible tells them the Earth will be habitable as long as there is man to live on it.

Others are tin foil hat types who think secret shadow governments are out to get them or are simply just armchair professors. Basically, there are just some who cannot be persuaded.

[Judge Roughneck]

If you think governments and and oil companies are kahots you are a tin foil hat wearer

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton

[Smokey]

Brulle

Is a moron?

I had not heard if him.

Please explain whybhes a moron for sense of mind

Or post a whats up with that link

The Guardian are the morons Bents.  A grade, 1st class, left wing propagandist morons who had no second thoughts about jeopardising Australian jobs and Australian security when it passed on national security information from a thief who was so strong about his beliefs that he fled to Russia for sanctuary and all for what purpose?  Nothing except to undermine the security of nations he hated.  They are the lowest of grubby vermin who have a direct parallel in history to the union garbage who contaminated and prevented supplies to our troops in various theatres of war.  Moronic paper read and accepted as gospel by morons.  Traitors to our country.

[Judge Roughneck]

I gave you a link to the original paper.

Please explain why its wrong bro

Happy xmas

[Smokey]

I gave you a link to the original paper.

Please explain why its wrong bro

Happy xmas

It's an opinion Bents, same as I can supply opinions from the other side of the fence.  I refuse to accept that I must mortgage or bankrupt my country on a concept that science can't agree on and is not yet proven (in my opinion) to be valid.  Climate change scare-mongering is making many smart entrepreneurs wealthy while the lemmings keep stepping forward.  It's an oxymoron situation of sorts that the socialist and left wing who are usually the strongest in identifying and voicing against conspiracy can't see the potential or early evidence in this one.

[Judge Roughneck]

I might be wrong but I thought if you tax pollution / mining your country would make money. Not lose it.

The crap in the ground isn't going anywhere. Untukk its dug up

[Smokey]

I might be wrong but I thought if you tax pollution / mining your country would make money. Not lose it.

The crap in the ground isn't going anywhere. Untukk its dug up

Taxing anything produced in your own country, whether it's wages, resources or pollution can never be a 'profit' situation.  The poor buggers that always end up paying (and they are the only ones who in the end tangibly pay) are the citizens.  I hate our tax system and how our government (of any persuasion) keeps looking for ways to tax us further, and that is the single biggest thing I have against climate change scare-mongering.  The big boys driving that push are making themselves obscenely wealthy from it and that wealth can only come from one place - our pockets.

[Gigantor]

No doubt the business of climate change has become just that..a business.
We live and work in a predominant capitalist society and we need to work within that to further advance protecting the world we live in.that may come from business/science innovation,or it may come from education,or even an awareness from business that long term its in their interests too.
This is what governments needs to nurture and encourage.
Taxation might work short term ,but long term all it does is stifle innovation,which is not something we want to see.

[Judge Roughneck]

Who are these lefties that's are making billions from fear mongering you refer to? All gore? Its pennies compared to the big boys. If you don't like the newspaper read the original source provided

I might be wrong but I thought if you tax pollution / mining your country would make money. Not lose it.

The crap in the ground isn't going anywhere. Untukk its dug up

Taxing anything produced in your own country, whether it's wages, resources or pollution can never be a 'profit' situation.  The poor buggers that always end up paying (and they are the only ones who in the end tangibly pay) are the citizens.  I hate our tax system and how our government (of any persuasion) keeps looking for ways to tax us further, and that is the single biggest thing I have against climate change scare-mongering.  The big boys driving that push are making themselves obscenely wealthy from it and that wealth can only come from one place - our pockets.

Ranking   Company   Industry   Revenue (USD billions)   FY   Capitalization (USD billions)   Employ   Listing   Headquarters   CEO   Ref(s)
1   Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.   Retail   $469   January 31, 2013   $248   2,200,000   NYSE: WMT   United States Bentonville, Arkansas   Doug McMillon   [2]
2   Royal Dutch Shell   Oil and gas   $467   December 31, 2012   $132   90,000   LSE: RDSA   Netherlands The Hague; United Kingdom London   Peter Voser   [3]
3   Exxon Mobil Corporation   Oil and gas   $453   December 31, 2012   $406   76,900   NYSE: XOM   United States Irving, Texas   Rex W. Tillerson   [4]
4   China National Petroleum Corporation   Oil and gas   $425   December 31, 2012      1,668,072   -   China Beijing   Jiang Jiemin   [5]
5   Sinopec Group   Oil and gas   $411   December 31, 2012   $81   401,000   NYSE: SNP   China Beijing   Su Shulin   [6]
6   BP   Oil and gas   $370   December 31, 2012   $86   83,000   LSE: BP   United Kingdom London   Bob Dudley   [7]
7   Saudi Aramco   Oil and gas   $365   2011      54,000   —   Saudi Arabia Dhahran   Khalid A. Al-Falih   [8]
8   Vitol   Commodities   $303   January 10, 2013      2,800   -   Netherlands Rotterdam; Switzerland Geneva   Ian Taylor   [9]
9   State Grid Corporation of China   Electric utility   $290   2012      1,564,000   —   China Beijing   Liu Zhenya   [10]
10   Volkswagen Group   Automotive   $254   December 31, 2012   $77   502,000   ISIN: DE0007664005   Germany Wolfsburg   Martin Winterkorn   [11]
11   Chevron   Oil and gas   $242   December 31, 2012   $211   61,000   NYSE: CVX   United States San Ramon, California   John Watson   [12]
12   Total   Oil and gas   $240   December 31, 2012   $120   111,000   Euronext: FP   France Courbevoie   Christophe de Margerie   [13]
13   Toyota   Automotive   $222   March 31, 2013   $149   326,000   TYO: 7203; NYSE: TM   Japan Toyota, Aichi   Akio Toyoda   [14]
14   Glencore   Commodities   $214   December 31, 2012   $41.66   58,000   LSE: GLEN; SEHK: 0805   Switzerland Baar   Ivan Glasenberg   [15]
15   Samsung Electronics   Electronics   $187   December 31, 2012   $181   222,000   KRX: 005930; KRX: 005935   South Korea Suwon   Lee Kun-hee   [16]
16   E.ON   Electric utility   $174   December 31, 2012   $47   79,000   FWB: EOAN   Germany Düsseldorf   Johannes Teyssen   [17]
17   Apple   Electronics   $170   September 28, 2013   $410   76,000   NASDAQ: AAPL   United States Cupertino, California   Tim Cook   [18]
18   Japan Post Holdings   Conglomerate   $168   March 31, 2013      229,000   —   Japan Tokyo   Jiro Saito   [19]
19   Eni   Oil and gas   $167   December 31, 2012   $94   78,000   BIT: ENI   Italy Rome   Paolo Scaroni   [20]
20   Phillips 66[   Oil and gas   $166   December 31, 2012   $39   13,500   -   United States Houston   Greg Garland   [21]
21   Gazprom   Oil and gas   $164   December 31, 2012   $145   432,000   MCX: GAZP   Russia Moscow   Alexei Miller   [22]


This is a list of the world's largest public and private businesses

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue

[Judge Roughneck]

No doubt the business of climate change has become just that..a business.
We live and work in a predominant capitalist society and we need to work within that to further advance protecting the world we live in.that may come from business/science innovation,or it may come from education,or even an awareness from business that long term its in their interests too.
This is what governments needs to nurture and encourage.
Taxation might work short term ,but long term all it does is stifle innovation,which is not something we want to see.

Disagree

 The capitalism-consumer paradigm by its very nature is design in such a manner to rape the planet as fast as possible. Can no protect anything inside this framework. It was written before the industrial revolution and isn't apt for the world currenrly .

Critics of capitalism associate it with social inequality and unfair distribution of wealth and power; a tendency toward market monopoly or oligopoly (and government by oligarchy); imperialism, counter-revolutionary wars and various forms of economic and cultural exploitation; materialism; repression of workers and trade unionists; social alienation; economic inequality; unemployment; and economic instability. Individual property rights have also been associated with the tragedy of the anticommons.

Notable critics of capitalism have included: socialists, anarchists, communists, national socialists, social democrats, technocrats, some types of conservatives, Luddites, Narodniks, Shakers, and some types of nationalists.

Marxists have advocated a revolutionary overthrow of capitalism that would lead to socialism, before eventually transforming into communism. Many socialists consider capitalism to be irrational, in that production and the direction of the economy are unplanned, creating many inconsistencies and internal contradictions.[118] Labor historians and scholars such as Immanuel Wallerstein have argued that unfree labor — by slaves, indentured servants, prisoners, and other coerced persons — is compatible with capitalist relations.[119]

Many aspects of capitalism have come under attack from the anti-globalization movement, which is primarily opposed to corporate capitalism. Environmentalists have argued that capitalism requires continual economic growth, and that it will inevitably deplete the finite natural resources of the Earth.[120]

Many religions have criticized or opposed specific elements of capitalism. Traditional Judaism, Christianity, and Islam forbid lending money at interest,[121][122] although alternative methods of banking have been developed. Some Christians have criticized capitalism for its materialist aspects[123] and its inability to account for the wellbeing of all people. Many of Geez's parables deal with clearly economic concerns: farming, shepherding, being in debt, doing hard labor, being excluded from banquets and the houses of the rich, and have implications for wealth and power distribution.[124][125]

In his 84-page apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, Pope Francis described unfettered capitalism as "a new tyranny" and called upon world leaders to fight rising poverty and inequality.[126] In it he says:

“   Some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naive trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting.[127]   ”
Following the banking crisis of 2007, even those who strongly held the view that capitalism can organize itself were forced to reconsider. Alan Greenspan told the United States Congress on October 23, 2008, "The whole intellectual edifice collapsed. I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organizations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders. ... I was shocked."[128]

I'm with the pope

[Smokey]

I'm not.  That would be the same Pope who leads a church more wealthy than all those companies you listed that could do more than any other organisation in the world to alleviate world poverty with a single stroke of it's pen by divesting of all it's assets ?  Mega-hypocrite.

[Judge Roughneck]

new pope is alright - proof:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/10/23/pope-francis-diocese-germany/3169225/
http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2013/10/14/conservative-catholics-question-pope-franciss-approach/21082
http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445




he cant realistically sell Vatican city to wal-mart. you can sell it once, but then what (bit like Victorian assets)

the world already makes enough food to fed the world every day twice (i made that up, but at least once - proof in fact form - http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/world%20hunger%20facts%202002.htm)

politics, Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading aside if there is x amount of food and some people die due to zero amount of food would it not be dandy if everyone got some food?

. its not the popes fault people are starving to death

I'm not.  That would be the same Pope who leads a church more wealthy than all those companies you listed that could do more than any other organisation in the world to alleviate world poverty with a single stroke of it's pen by divesting of all it's assets ?  Mega-hypocrite.

Respectfully disagree with this.

The church is a 2000 year old institution that has held the west together over a vast expanse of known human recorded history. if you don't like it , it still require some form of respect. Without it human beings too stupid to form governments [europe] might have fallen into a never ending dark age? On a side note a very small amount of priests finger young boys -There is no story's on the many boring / good priest 

[Judge Roughneck]

From 2002 to 2011, the incidence of lung cancer in Beijing rose to 63 cases per 100,000, from 39.6, according to municipal health authorities. Nationwide in the last three decades, an era in which China opened up its economy and industrialized, deaths from lung cancer have risen 465%.

Increasingly, other Chinese physicians are reaching the same conclusion. At a time when cigarette smoking is on the decline in China, the nation is facing an explosion of lung cancer cases.

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-china-lung-cancer-20131224,0,3058283.story#ixzz2oREirMYe

[mightytiges]

Link Bents?

Many aspects of capitalism have come under attack from the anti-globalization movement, which is primarily opposed to corporate capitalism. Environmentalists have argued that capitalism requires continual economic growth, and that it will inevitably deplete the finite natural resources of the Earth.[120]

The continual development of the latest technology should counter that. It's those in old and increasingly antiquated technology that oppose out of self-interest moving towards newer technology that are a threat to sustainable long-term economic growth.

Actual those that oppose Carbon pricing and trading are supporting a imbalance in the Capitalist system rather than supporting Capitalism. A capitalist system would support a market-based variable carbon pricing and trading scheme as it means it's no longer 'free' to emit man-made excess CO2 and you're instead attributing a financial value to something that affects/will affect the rest of the economy as a whole.

Many religions have criticized or opposed specific elements of capitalism. Traditional Judaism, Christianity, and Islam forbid lending money at interest,[121][122]

Forbidding interest would see you lose money as money has a time value. A dollar today is worth less than a dollar a year ago. You need to charge at least "risk-free" interest just to stay even. The pricing and trading of stocks, derivatives, etc ... on the stockmarket relies on the existence of interest. It's a means to evaluate risk and return. Would you lend money at no interest to a unreliable debtor who has a 50/50 chance of defaulting  and on top of that let that scenario be equal in risk value to lending to a reliable AAA debtor who always pays back their loans even though the latter scenario offers far less risk? 

Anyway, this is for another topic. The study of global warming and climate change is not some means or conspiracy to end Capitalism.