Author Topic: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading  (Read 106795 times)

Offline Stalin

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #300 on: January 24, 2016, 02:26:43 PM »
search 'dead fish pacific ocean'
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #301 on: January 25, 2016, 04:23:37 AM »
It's more complicate than that but I'll try. Those are torque or traction motors in axles similar to those in trains. They're on a DC supply delivered by a charge from a capacitor that is powered from a high current 110v/240v supply. A typical solar panel meters around 12v DC after about an hour in direct sunlight with a current fit for not much other than powering a light. As you run them into an inverter for AC and a usuable voltage you lose current. Chemical cells are fixed around that too, if you meter your car battery you will get around 14v DC but that is recharged via a generator. Low load bearing single phase motors like fans and such might only pull half an amp at no load but any motor will take around 6 times its full load current on start up. So even the little pedestal fan you got from Kmart for $10 will takes around 3 amps to start up the a steady steam of 0.5A. Often a pool pump for example will be put on a 15A circuit with a type D breaker due to full load exceeding the standard 10A rating of a single phase power circuit on a type C breaker. The your oven (if electric) is already on its own 36A circuit. These are just currents you can't get off DC cell supply. Sorry if it seems like a tangent but trying to list examples why current technology just cant do it. This isn't even touching on 3phase supply which is required for industry.

To generate the power we need it can be done in a number of ways by using a turbine but it's all the same. You have permanent magnets set up in a stator housing. They are transferring flux north to south. A wound/conductive rotor (armature) goes through the middle. Turning it literally 'cuts' the flux which produces an AC voltage. It can be done in any way by using wind, water (hydro), steam (burning coal or running water over a hot radioactive core), but it's the constant generation that keeps things running that cells aren't capable of. Another thing too is that voltage drops over distance. The massive lines you see coming cross country from a plant to a city are carrying around 250-260k V AC. It is stepped down at sub stations then the trannies on the poles you see around are maintaining a steady 220-240v.

I'm all for clean energy too by the way. IMO it would be cheaper for the government to put panels on every roof than to build any sort of new plant. That way we aren't burning coal just to turn a light or TV on or hear water which sounds ridiculous. Then we would only be using coal to turn on things like air cons and use fridges. We could probably do this off wind farms but industry will need something more substantial. We may or may not have blown pole fuses in the past running up motors in our workshop :whistle there are some motors as big as a two story house used on crushers at the mines, good luck powering that off anything else.

I think I get it now. In a slightly related question, what are your thoughts on domestic battery storage for solar power, and, the likely tech we might see in panels in the next 5 years?
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Offline Diocletian

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #302 on: January 26, 2016, 03:01:32 AM »
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good...."

- Thomas Sowell


FJ is the only one that makes sense.

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #303 on: January 26, 2016, 07:20:54 PM »
The club that keeps giving.

Offline Stalin

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #304 on: January 26, 2016, 07:40:24 PM »
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #305 on: January 26, 2016, 08:15:51 PM »
 :lol
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #306 on: January 27, 2016, 02:48:13 AM »
I'm no scientist but what the hell is going on?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html


Asia - coldest temperatures in 60 years.
http://m.phys.org/news/2016-01-hong-kong-coldest-temperatures-years.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35395780

Britain - coldest winter in 50 years
http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/604619/Long-range-weather-forecast-Britain-cold-winter-2015-arctic-snow-freeze
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/633273/Snow-weather-uk-severe-alert-forecast-south-snowbomb

North America - coldest temperatures in 120 years.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2959492/Return-Polar-Vortex-Arctic-weather-phenomenon-returns-time-winter-threatens-hit-East-Coast-historic-low-temperatures.html

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/19/polar-vortex-coldest-weather-decades

Europe - coldest in 50 years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/9051921/Siberian-cold-front-sweeps-across-Europe-bringing-record-low-temperatures.html
Global warming relates to the Earth's biosphere retaining an increasing amount of thermal energy (warming) thanks to the increasing amounts of greenhouse gases we're pumping into the atmosphere (CO2 being the dominant radiative or climate forcing which is a positive forcing and one increasing the most). This additional and increasing thermal energy has two effects - (i) the mean global temperature trend is rising over time (2015 was the hottest year in recorded history and this mean global temperature is now a degree higher than pre-industrial times) and (ii) this additional and increasing energy acts like an amplifier on our climate system which leads to a higher probability of more extreme weather events (both hot and cold) occurring more often. So for example, a one in a hundred year weather event may now or in the near future occur once in a decade.

I still remember being petrified as kid after Dr Spock told me we were entering another potential ice age because the scientists told us the evidence was there....
http://youtu.be/L_861us8D9M

One dude has already found many articles on the 70's ice age scare.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
Are the denialist crowd still trying to pull this debunked claim from over a decade ago? lol

Fact is the vast majority of actual climate science journal papers back in the 70s were related to man-made global warming and how it would swamp the natural milankovitch cycles.

So, is the planet warming or cooling?
Do I need more Reef Dark Suntan Oil or should I be stocking up on thermals?
2015 broke the hottest year record by some margin (previous hottest was 2014).

Quote

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #307 on: January 27, 2016, 02:20:32 PM »
I still remember being petrified as kid after Dr Spock told me we were entering another potential ice age because the scientists told us the evidence was there....
http://youtu.be/L_861us8D9M

One dude has already found many articles on the 70's ice age scare.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
Are the denialist crowd still trying to pull this debunked claim from over a decade ago? lol

Fact is the vast majority of actual climate science journal papers back in the 70s were related to man-made global warming and how it would swamp the natural milankovitch cycles.
MT, did you even read the blog post? This fellow gives many real examples are of actual media propaganda of that decade. No mention is any article in that lot of global warming or John Malkovich cycles. Just over & over reports on how the experts predict a period of rapid cooling and the potential of an imminent ice age.
It's bloody easy to say you meant something else when you said the opposite, as a parent I've done it more times than I can remember but this stinks like crap.

Your a smart fellow and I'm sure you could post some very impressive data from the seventies that told us the world was warming and not cooling or that the world was cooling because it was warming or even data from the seventies that tells us it was a man made problem & I'd be happy to read it. But I challenge you  to find some real media articles that were telling us what they are telling us now. Find some articles published in a popular newspaper during a the seventies that said this before you post some mumbo-jumbo that I can't understand.  ;D. I don't remember anything until maybe the late 80's obviously when things didn't get colder as predicted but got hotter.

Did you at least watch Mr Spock? No mention of global warming in that video & it scared the hell out of me as little kid but at least we weren't forced to watch it like an inconvenient truth became compulsory viewing in some regions.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #308 on: January 31, 2016, 05:59:55 AM »
I still remember being petrified as kid after Dr Spock told me we were entering another potential ice age because the scientists told us the evidence was there....
http://youtu.be/L_861us8D9M

One dude has already found many articles on the 70's ice age scare.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
Are the denialist crowd still trying to pull this debunked claim from over a decade ago? lol

Fact is the vast majority of actual climate science journal papers back in the 70s were related to man-made global warming and how it would swamp the natural milankovitch cycles.
MT, did you even read the blog post? This fellow gives many real examples are of actual media propaganda of that decade. No mention is any article in that lot of global warming or John Malkovich cycles. Just over & over reports on how the experts predict a period of rapid cooling and the potential of an imminent ice age.
It's bloody easy to say you meant something else when you said the opposite, as a parent I've done it more times than I can remember but this stinks like crap.

Your a smart fellow and I'm sure you could post some very impressive data from the seventies that told us the world was warming and not cooling or that the world was cooling because it was warming or even data from the seventies that tells us it was a man made problem & I'd be happy to read it. But I challenge you  to find some real media articles that were telling us what they are telling us now. Find some articles published in a popular newspaper during a the seventies that said this before you post some mumbo-jumbo that I can't understand.  ;D. I don't remember anything until maybe the late 80's obviously when things didn't get colder as predicted but got hotter.

Did you at least watch Mr Spock? No mention of global warming in that video & it scared the hell out of me as little kid but at least we weren't forced to watch it like an inconvenient truth became compulsory viewing in some regions.
I've seen the Spock video about a decade ago when this 1970s cooling myth was doing the rounds on denialist sites like WUWT.

The media of the 1970s, especially in the US, wanted a story on the period of cool temperatures in the Northern hemisphere (as opposed to global temps) back then. Climate studies of the day were still split into separate scientific fields. Geologists knew about Milankovitch cycles in reference to the connection between orbital effects and ice ages; Two guys named Rasool & Schneider wanted to model aerosols, which have a cooling effect. Some in the media grabbed on to all of these and put two and two together to get five.

The bulk of the peer-review scientific literature into climate studies though in the 1970s was about global warming from increasing CO2 due to human activity. Consensus was achieved by the mid-late 1970s. There are media articles from the 50s/60s/70s that talk about global warming.

SCIENCE IN REVIEW
Warmer Climate on the Earth may be due to more Carbon Dioxide in the Air.

By Waldemmar Kaempffert
New York Times
Oct 28, 1956

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/weekinreview/warm1956.pdf

Title: Scientists Caution on Changes In Climate as Result of Pollution
Publication: The New York Times
Date: Dec 21, 1969

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec. 20 (UPI) -- Scientists have warned the human race that it is running the risk of allowing pollution to destroy life in the oceans and to alter the earth's climate by raising temperatures.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9405EEDB1F3BE73ABC4951DFB4678382679EDE#


WARMING TREND SEEN IN CLIMATE; Two Articles Counter View That Cold Period Is Due
By WALTER SULLIVAN ();
New York Times
August 14, 1975,

Articles in two scientific journals have questioned widely publicized predictions that, in coming decades, the world climate will deteriorate severely affecting food production and, perhaps, initiating a new ice age.

Dr. Broecker’s argument is that the present cooling trend in the north [northern hemisphere] will be reversed as more and more carbon dioxide is introduced into the atmosphere by the burning of fuels.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9806E5DC1E3CE034BC4C52DFBE66838E669EDE
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #309 on: February 05, 2016, 01:17:03 AM »
I still remember being petrified as kid after Dr Spock told me we were entering another potential ice age because the scientists told us the evidence was there....
http://youtu.be/L_861us8D9M

One dude has already found many articles on the 70's ice age scare.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
Are the denialist crowd still trying to pull this debunked claim from over a decade ago? lol

Fact is the vast majority of actual climate science journal papers back in the 70s were related to man-made global warming and how it would swamp the natural milankovitch cycles.
MT, did you even read the blog post? This fellow gives many real examples are of actual media propaganda of that decade. No mention is any article in that lot of global warming or John Malkovich cycles. Just over & over reports on how the experts predict a period of rapid cooling and the potential of an imminent ice age.
It's bloody easy to say you meant something else when you said the opposite, as a parent I've done it more times than I can remember but this stinks like crap.

Your a smart fellow and I'm sure you could post some very impressive data from the seventies that told us the world was warming and not cooling or that the world was cooling because it was warming or even data from the seventies that tells us it was a man made problem & I'd be happy to read it. But I challenge you  to find some real media articles that were telling us what they are telling us now. Find some articles published in a popular newspaper during a the seventies that said this before you post some mumbo-jumbo that I can't understand.  ;D. I don't remember anything until maybe the late 80's obviously when things didn't get colder as predicted but got hotter.

Did you at least watch Mr Spock? No mention of global warming in that video & it scared the hell out of me as little kid but at least we weren't forced to watch it like an inconvenient truth became compulsory viewing in some regions.
I've seen the Spock video about a decade ago when this 1970s cooling myth was doing the rounds on denialist sites like WUWT.

The media of the 1970s, especially in the US, wanted a story on the period of cool temperatures in the Northern hemisphere (as opposed to global temps) back then. Climate studies of the day were still split into separate scientific fields. Geologists knew about Milankovitch cycles in reference to the connection between orbital effects and ice ages; Two guys named Rasool & Schneider wanted to model aerosols, which have a cooling effect. Some in the media grabbed on to all of these and put two and two together to get five.

The bulk of the peer-review scientific literature into climate studies though in the 1970s was about global warming from increasing CO2 due to human activity. Consensus was achieved by the mid-late 1970s. There are media articles from the 50s/60s/70s that talk about global warming.

SCIENCE IN REVIEW
Warmer Climate on the Earth may be due to more Carbon Dioxide in the Air.

By Waldemmar Kaempffert
New York Times
Oct 28, 1956

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/weekinreview/warm1956.pdf

Title: Scientists Caution on Changes In Climate as Result of Pollution
Publication: The New York Times
Date: Dec 21, 1969

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec. 20 (UPI) -- Scientists have warned the human race that it is running the risk of allowing pollution to destroy life in the oceans and to alter the earth's climate by raising temperatures.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9405EEDB1F3BE73ABC4951DFB4678382679EDE#


WARMING TREND SEEN IN CLIMATE; Two Articles Counter View That Cold Period Is Due
By WALTER SULLIVAN ();
New York Times
August 14, 1975,

Articles in two scientific journals have questioned widely publicized predictions that, in coming decades, the world climate will deteriorate severely affecting food production and, perhaps, initiating a new ice age.

Dr. Broecker’s argument is that the present cooling trend in the north [northern hemisphere] will be reversed as more and more carbon dioxide is introduced into the atmosphere by the burning of fuels.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9806E5DC1E3CE034BC4C52DFBE66838E669EDE
:clapping
Well done MT you came through  :thumbsup and thanks for making the effort & taking the time.  :cheers

In relation to the Spock video I personally didn't get that from any denialist site rather I truly remembered it from watching it sometime in the eighties and it scared me at the time. 
The club that keeps giving.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #310 on: February 06, 2016, 02:06:55 AM »
I still remember being petrified as kid after Dr Spock told me we were entering another potential ice age because the scientists told us the evidence was there....
http://youtu.be/L_861us8D9M

One dude has already found many articles on the 70's ice age scare.
https://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/1970s-ice-age-scare/
Are the denialist crowd still trying to pull this debunked claim from over a decade ago? lol

Fact is the vast majority of actual climate science journal papers back in the 70s were related to man-made global warming and how it would swamp the natural milankovitch cycles.
MT, did you even read the blog post? This fellow gives many real examples are of actual media propaganda of that decade. No mention is any article in that lot of global warming or John Malkovich cycles. Just over & over reports on how the experts predict a period of rapid cooling and the potential of an imminent ice age.
It's bloody easy to say you meant something else when you said the opposite, as a parent I've done it more times than I can remember but this stinks like crap.

Your a smart fellow and I'm sure you could post some very impressive data from the seventies that told us the world was warming and not cooling or that the world was cooling because it was warming or even data from the seventies that tells us it was a man made problem & I'd be happy to read it. But I challenge you  to find some real media articles that were telling us what they are telling us now. Find some articles published in a popular newspaper during a the seventies that said this before you post some mumbo-jumbo that I can't understand.  ;D. I don't remember anything until maybe the late 80's obviously when things didn't get colder as predicted but got hotter.

Did you at least watch Mr Spock? No mention of global warming in that video & it scared the hell out of me as little kid but at least we weren't forced to watch it like an inconvenient truth became compulsory viewing in some regions.
I've seen the Spock video about a decade ago when this 1970s cooling myth was doing the rounds on denialist sites like WUWT.

The media of the 1970s, especially in the US, wanted a story on the period of cool temperatures in the Northern hemisphere (as opposed to global temps) back then. Climate studies of the day were still split into separate scientific fields. Geologists knew about Milankovitch cycles in reference to the connection between orbital effects and ice ages; Two guys named Rasool & Schneider wanted to model aerosols, which have a cooling effect. Some in the media grabbed on to all of these and put two and two together to get five.

The bulk of the peer-review scientific literature into climate studies though in the 1970s was about global warming from increasing CO2 due to human activity. Consensus was achieved by the mid-late 1970s. There are media articles from the 50s/60s/70s that talk about global warming.

SCIENCE IN REVIEW
Warmer Climate on the Earth may be due to more Carbon Dioxide in the Air.

By Waldemmar Kaempffert
New York Times
Oct 28, 1956

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/weekinreview/warm1956.pdf

Title: Scientists Caution on Changes In Climate as Result of Pollution
Publication: The New York Times
Date: Dec 21, 1969

SAN FRANCISCO, Dec. 20 (UPI) -- Scientists have warned the human race that it is running the risk of allowing pollution to destroy life in the oceans and to alter the earth's climate by raising temperatures.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9405EEDB1F3BE73ABC4951DFB4678382679EDE#


WARMING TREND SEEN IN CLIMATE; Two Articles Counter View That Cold Period Is Due
By WALTER SULLIVAN ();
New York Times
August 14, 1975,

Articles in two scientific journals have questioned widely publicized predictions that, in coming decades, the world climate will deteriorate severely affecting food production and, perhaps, initiating a new ice age.

Dr. Broecker’s argument is that the present cooling trend in the north [northern hemisphere] will be reversed as more and more carbon dioxide is introduced into the atmosphere by the burning of fuels.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9806E5DC1E3CE034BC4C52DFBE66838E669EDE
:clapping
Well done MT you came through  :thumbsup and thanks for making the effort & taking the time.  :cheers

In relation to the Spock video I personally didn't get that from any denialist site rather I truly remembered it from watching it sometime in the eighties and it scared me at the time.
No probs, Tigeritis  :cheers

Coincidently, I stumbled over this Braidwood Dispatch and Mining Journal (NSW) article today from way back in 1912.

COAL CONSUMPTION AFFECTING CLIMATE.

The furnaces of the world are now burning about 2,000,000,000 tons of coal a year. When this is burned, uniting with oxygen, it adds about 7,000,000,000 tons of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere yearly. This tends to make the air a more effective blanket for the earth and to raise its temperature. The effect may be considerable in a few centuries.


http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/100645214

Given the modern concept of AGW didn't really begin to become a concern amongst scientists until the 1950s, this Australian prediction was well ahead of its time  :o.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Stalin

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Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Stalin

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Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Stalin

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Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Stalin

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Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus