AFL Divisions / Top Heavy / Solution?

[bojangles17]

pretty silly idea really, it would spell the end for teams with the limited media exposure associated with anything less than premiere div, a club would soon spiral from serious contention EVER

[yellowandback]

Leave it. One comp one pool
of money
it's worked for 100 years. Leave the friggen thing alone

[Tigermonk]

 

[TigerLand]

Your extending the competetion to 20 teams and just fencing off the best teams against the rebuilding teams.

Everyone complains to change the coach and how that will fix everything yet any logical idea to help the competetion level out and you say leave it.

Watch Essendon, Richmond, Melbourne or Noth Melbourne if they fail miserably whilst Gold Coast and W.Sydney come in and we'll have another Fitzroy if we don't have one already.

I'm sick of going to the footy hoping we're still in the game at qtr time.

Something needs to change. The fans suffer from the failures of the club past decisions. I'm sick of it.

[HD]

I'd just love to see competetion instead of what has become a farcical result of teams that have used the draft better than others. With the way things are it's just a merry-go-round with teams rebuilding and teams in premiership contention.

A farcical result of teams that have used the draft better than others?? Sounds like you're averse to good management and foresight from the footy department! The fact the competition does change up so much these days, and in a short number of years teams go from premiership contenders/winners to rebuilding and back into contention suggests the comp is stronger than ever.

If teams like Richmond can't manage to join the flow and get their shot at the title that is their problem, not the AFL's to fix when it works for 80% of the other teams. The draft and priority pick concessions give all poorly performing teams an opportunity to recruit the best youngsters (in theory) with a view to having a stronger, better skilled team in a few years.

To me a weak competition is one where the same teams stay at the top, and the same stay at the bottom. In the AFL the same 3 at the bottom (Nth, Melbourne and Richmond) these days have no one else to blame but themselves because everyone else seems to be able to work themselves up from 13th back into a reasonably successful position in a short number of years.

Our problem is not the competition, it's fairness or it's bias - it's been the recruitment, management and development of players for a number of years that has caused so a long period of being down.

[Smokey]

Good post.  Agree. 

[Tigermonk]

I'd just love to see competetion instead of what has become a farcical result of teams that have used the draft better than others. With the way things are it's just a merry-go-round with teams rebuilding and teams in premiership contention.

A farcical result of teams that have used the draft better than others?? Sounds like you're averse to good management and foresight from the footy department! The fact the competition does change up so much these days, and in a short number of years teams go from premiership contenders/winners to rebuilding and back into contention suggests the comp is stronger than ever.

If teams like Richmond can't manage to join the flow and get their shot at the title that is their problem, not the AFL's to fix when it works for 80% of the other teams. The draft and priority pick concessions give all poorly performing teams an opportunity to recruit the best youngsters (in theory) with a view to having a stronger, better skilled team in a few years.

To me a weak competition is one where the same teams stay at the top, and the same stay at the bottom. In the AFL the same 3 at the bottom (Nth, Melbourne and Richmond) these days have no one else to blame but themselves because everyone else seems to be able to work themselves up from 13th back into a reasonably successful position in a short number of years.

Our problem is not the competition, it's fairness or it's bias - it's been the recruitment, management and development of players for a number of years that has caused so a long period of being down.

You know what l read alot of stuff over the years but this is one of the better posts l ever read 
l couldnot agree more

[TigerLand]

So for the fact that the AFL is a happy merry go round you'd rather do nothing when the bottom 4-6 teams are no chance at winning the premiership, getting thrsahed each week and becoming painful to watch for club supporters and AFL followers in general. You think seeing 2 games a year of Haw v Geel, WB v Coll, St.K v Geel etc and 2 games of Melb v Rich, North v Ess, etc is worse then the system we have current with Haw thrashing Melb, WB thrashing Rich and Saints thrashing North.

You wouldn't rather the stronger teams play off against each other and the rebuilding teams to play each other. You'd rather see every 2nd round 2 or 3 games of white wash football.

Sure the competetion is set up so that in theory a well rebuilt list will eventually contend for glory as other teams windows close, thatsnot even thats fair.

Why should we not look to improve a competetion that has the bottom 4-6 thrashed every year. Whilst we have a merry go roud so each team will eventually have there time up the top, they will also have there time down the bottom. It's a merry go round system. Why not shield the bottom few so they don't have consecutive write off seasons?

With 18 teams in the competetion in 4 years time and with the top 8 unlikely to become a top 9, we'll have 10 clubs missing out on finals football each year with very little success.

It's territory for the unsuccessful clubs to lose interest.

A strong competetion has even quality and strong competetion, not a happy merry go round that has a system in place that if teams lose enough eventually they'll have enough blue chip talent to win them a premiership in 6 years time. The AFL's top 4 have never been so far away from the bottom 4 in it's history.

I agree it is Richmonds fault where we are, but they're will always be weak clubs and history suggest they are getting weaker and weaker than the strongest each season.

[the_boy_jake]

I disagree with this solution.

Firstly, any chance of stopping this situation where the worst 5-6 teams in the comp are uncompetitive is impossible as long as there are incentives for teams to finish low. Such incentives ruin the mentality of football teams and enter the subconscious of football departments, list builders and career coaches. As I always say - look at the NRL and how much more competitive it is than AFL. With a salary cap, but no draft. So there are only two conclusions:

1. The draft actually makes the league less competitive on a season by season basis.
2. AFL is a sport prone to blowouts due to the effect one player can have on a game, the relative freedom of teams to exploit lopsided matchups and the greater length of games.

So if 1, get rid or modify the draft.
If 2, we just have to live with it or cop a raft of rule changes like soccer did to stop lopsided scorelines with an offside rule.

But back to Popelord's suggestion, lets concede that the AFL is only really interested in the bottom line and the scheme will only work if it makes the AFL more successful in a commercial sense. Whilst your scheme might provide more competitive matches overall, which way would the average attendance go? What would be the effect, long-term, on the supporter and membership base of a club who spent many seasons in Div 2, further from the TV screens and back pages? Would the AFL be happy with there being no Essendon-Collingwood or Carlton-Collingwood or Richmond-Collingwood games next season if they finish in separate halves of the table? What would the attendance be between Richmond and Carlton if we were both in Div 2 and unable to win a flag that year? Halved?

Instead of asking a whole heap of questions about the commercial impact of such a scheme, you can probably save time and say that in the US, where the corporate $ rules, promotion and relegation as far as I know have not been considered and will not considered for their sports. Instead they use a series of regional divisions to maximise corporate opportunity and preserve rivalries. The promotion-relegation system is an artefact of 150 year-old soccer competitions in Europe, where whilst it adds a touch of romance and the chance of upward mobility to the sport, I think from a commercial point of view there would be plenty of powerbrokers who would like to see the back of it.

So I think it is entirely unlikely that such a scheme would get off the ground. From a supporters point of view I think there are plus and minus points. From a corporate point of view I think that there are more minuses than pluses. I am cynical about the power of fans to move the sport in any collectively agreeable direction and as such I think the corporate attitudes will rule.

[TigerLand]

Thanks TBJ,

Make some great points, having something to play for, for the bottom 8 teams is the issue here. With no finals actions possible you could argue that evenetually commercially the sport will be effected with uncomepeteive sides making up the last 6 slots of teh competetion. These fans based are starved and more than likely shortened over time until they are successful again.

Should there be something to keep them? Maybe at the end of the season The bottom 8 players off for draft picks. Having a goal to play for finishing as high as possibly in the bottom 8 to get the double chance of the "Bottom 8 finals Series" With the winner being awarded pick 1. Or if thats too harsh to the wooden spooner the winner gets the first pick after the wooden spoon which would be 2.

This all came about talking with a Dees fan on Monday who was just devastated about the loss on Saturday, Saying its 3 years until they've finally been competetive and he losths whole family in support his brother no longer follows the AFL and follows the storm and his 2 boys have gone from wearing the number 9 David Neitz to wearing Melbourne Victory jumpers.

I just think it's naive for the AFL to assume that when teams are rebuilding and being uncompetetive and have absolutly nothing to play for even as early as Round 2 (as its inevitable where they will finish) that the supporters will always be there. I'm sure we'd all love to be going to the footy thinking that at some point this year we will be playing for something and we don't have to beat Geel, WB, Coll and Saints to get it.

[HD]

So for the fact that the AFL is a happy merry go round you'd rather do nothing when the bottom 4-6 teams are no chance at winning the premiership, getting thrsahed each week and becoming painful to watch for club supporters and AFL followers in general. You think seeing 2 games a year of Haw v Geel, WB v Coll, St.K v Geel etc and 2 games of Melb v Rich, North v Ess, etc is worse then the system we have current with Haw thrashing Melb, WB thrashing Rich and Saints thrashing North.

What about Melbourne taking Collingwood to the line? I bet the thousands of fans watching live or at home thought that was more exciting a game to watch than Geelong and Hawthorn (and that was a cracker)

You wouldn't rather the stronger teams play off against each other and the rebuilding teams to play each other. You'd rather see every 2nd round 2 or 3 games of white wash football.

How does a weak team get strong? By developing their players correctly against stronger teams - not by segregating them away with the other low teams. If we were in Geelong or St Kilda's position, everyone on this forum would relish the opportunity to smash a "Tiger" or a "Demon" team every now and again to get some back for those down times when you are everyone else's punching bag.

Call it karma, call it the circle of life, whatever it is it's just Footy and our comp was never so strong as when it was nationalised and all the states got involved - now we are supposed to split it up again??

With 18 teams in the competetion in 4 years time and with the top 8 unlikely to become a top 9, we'll have 10 clubs missing out on finals football each year with very little success.

And we may just find it a little bit easier to come by premiership points and put ourselves into the finals if we do this rebuild right! More opportunity to win means more shots at September.

It's territory for the unsuccessful clubs to lose interest.

I agree it is Richmonds fault where we are, but they're will always be weak clubs and history suggest they are getting weaker and weaker than the strongest each season.

It's more like territory for wavering support to disappear opposed to staunching out one of the toughest periods our club has gone through. The weak getting weaker? Why is it only Richmond and Melbourne suffering this when other clubs seem to be able to rebuild from 14th, 13th and go on to be successful once again - is it everyone else's fault or our own?

[one-eyed]

Garry Lyon brought up the idea of relegation & promotion again this morning.

Great suggests AFL’s financial crisis could force extreme promotion, relegation system with less teams

June 1, 2020
Fox Sports

With mummers around whether the competition can sustain all 18 teams in the future, Lyon suggested an alternative option could be discussed at league headquarters.

“Are we looking at a two-tier system? A relation and promotion system. A major competition with 10 to 12 teams, then you’re relegated? Is this what they are posturing to,” Lyon said on SEN Breakfast.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-coronavirus-covid19-updates-afl-financial-crisis-garry-lyon-afl-teams-gold-coast/news-story/9e160e4e09453f92fa1d7f7259dc0bb4