Rucks- Bigmen

[jackstar is back again]

Like you ad naseum post prwviously Jack you look at isolated games for a wide spread of debutantes and hold them up as a living example to bag the RFC

Maybe you should also watch out for the bad and average games they play as well

Its all about balance

Look here clown.
I have watched Tyrone since he was 16
Seen all his tapes from Northern Knights before he was drafted
I wouldnt have drafted him
I dont think Vickery is smart enough to play AFL and struggles with the thought process in playing ( which was clearly evident in Round 1 against Carlton)
I think that Browne has more upside than Vickery.
Its my opinion and i am entitled to it.

[Smokey]

Yep I am very harsh ,Why ?
I want us to be successful.
We hold onto players that we HOPEwill improve.
The successfull clubs dont live in HOPE.

Does that mean every single player is supposed to be at their peak the moment they arrive?
Clearly we can't count on them improving
A 19 year old ruckman in his 2nd year is hardly holding onto a player in the hope they improve, they're still a developing player
What a ridiculous attitude

Your post is the reason that the Tigers have been a failure.
We hold onto good ordinary footballers etc etc.
We require players with that Magic Touch.
Raw ability.  First year players at other clubs can turn it on, why cant ours ?
Posters on here talk about age and game numbers.
Our average age this weekend is  23.5 and games 62
Carlton is 23.4 and games 67
Freo 24.0 and 76.
There isnt much difference.
The difference is we hold onto players that havent got the abilty or touch of magic.
And lets be fair dinkum, if it wasnt for his Dads role at the club, would he be at Punt Rd ?? I think not.

Your analysis of the stats is unfairly skewed Jack.

We have 2 players aged in their 30's with a total of 451 games between them, Carlton and Fremantle have none.  Neither of these 2 players have a significant impact on our team on game day, indeed you can safely mount a case for one of them to be very counter-productive, and both will be gone at seasons end so over 30% of our games experience is of little value and will be gone in 4 months time.

The players that have the most impact in any side are the hard, experienced, mid to late 20's age group - that's what all good sides have in abundance.
We have 3 - Tuck, Newman and Moore.
Carlton have 6 - Scotland, Houlihan, O'hAilpin, Carrazzo, Judd, Simpson.
Fremantle have 10 - Tarrant, Hayden, McPharlin, Haselby, Pavlich, McPhee, Sandilands, Crowley, Johnson, Duffield.

You think that this might just have a smallish impact on the output, guidance, development, protection etc of the kids on the respective lists?  And you think that this might just point to why Carlton and Fremantle SEEM to be better at picking kids who can play early?  Maybe, just maybe, their kids get protection and a helping hand that our kids don't just yet.  And maybe, just maybe this is why both those sides are in the mix for finals, despite your raw stats pointing to an equality between the lists that doesn't exist in reality.

[Chuck17]

Well said Smokey but I fear a point made in too much common sense rationale for some of our more challenged members here

[WA Tiger]

Just thought I would bring up Old Mates thread again.. with all the talk surrounding Simmonds, Gus and Browne this year so far. Or some talk about how inadequate our ruck division has been.

Do we go for a ruckman with our first pick in the draft at pick 900, just joking, pick 4, if we do then who will be available.

[Infamy]

Do we go for a ruckman with our first pick in the draft at pick 900, just joking, pick 4, if we do then who will be available.

Best available with Pick 4
Hopefully that is Sam Day who is tall and athletic enough to play kpp and ruck

[WA Tiger]

Do we go for a ruckman with our first pick in the draft at pick 900, just joking, pick 4, if we do then who will be available.

Best available with Pick 4
Hopefully that is Sam Day who is tall and athletic enough to play kpp and ruck

Excellent, we should keep an eye on him, is he playing in the under 18's this weekend?? If so it should be on Fox, I will tape it and have a look and report on him.

[the claw]

Yep I am very harsh ,Why ?
I want us to be successful.
We hold onto players that we HOPEwill improve.
The successfull clubs dont live in HOPE.

Does that mean every single player is supposed to be at their peak the moment they arrive?
Clearly we can't count on them improving
A 19 year old ruckman in his 2nd year is hardly holding onto a player in the hope they improve, they're still a developing player
What a ridiculous attitude

Your post is the reason that the Tigers have been a failure.
We hold onto good ordinary footballers etc etc.
We require players with that Magic Touch.
Raw ability.  First year players at other clubs can turn it on, why cant ours ?
Posters on here talk about age and game numbers.
Our average age this weekend is  23.5 and games 62
Carlton is 23.4 and games 67
Freo 24.0 and 76.
There isnt much difference.
The difference is we hold onto players that havent got the abilty or touch of magic.
And lets be fair dinkum, if it wasnt for his Dads role at the club, would he be at Punt Rd ?? I think not.

on this you are way of the mark jack. vickery is in his second yr  hes skinny  lacks power  size strength but is being asked to play afl. and why, the simple answers are we need to fast track him but even then it may take 5 yrs and the other is hes all we have got. no one would blink if he was being developed at coburg but lets face it we dont have that luxury.
and what the hell are you doing writing 19 yr old 15 kg under weight ruckmen of.  you should know better having been around an afl club. for what its worth i think vickery has shown some very good signs at times. and yes he has not done much but ffs do we really expect much at this stage of his development. like i said if he had not played a game and spent his entire time at coburg noone would have bated an eyelid.
i tell you what lets have this conversation in 2 or 3 yrs time  when the skinny boy has become i hope a mature big bodied man. if he fails then i will join you in the critiques.

[Infamy]

Do we go for a ruckman with our first pick in the draft at pick 900, just joking, pick 4, if we do then who will be available.

Best available with Pick 4
Hopefully that is Sam Day who is tall and athletic enough to play kpp and ruck

Excellent, we should keep an eye on him, is he playing in the under 18's this weekend?? If so it should be on Fox, I will tape it and have a look and report on him.

He plays for Sturt in the SANFL, 196cm bigger leap and faster than Naitanui at AIS testing last year
Good chance he may go to Gold Coast, but will be there abouts for Pick 4
He may also choose to go to the USA to pursue a career in basketball or baseball, very talented athlete

[WA Tiger]

Do we go for a ruckman with our first pick in the draft at pick 900, just joking, pick 4, if we do then who will be available.

Best available with Pick 4
Hopefully that is Sam Day who is tall and athletic enough to play kpp and ruck

Excellent, we should keep an eye on him, is he playing in the under 18's this weekend?? If so it should be on Fox, I will tape it and have a look and report on him.

He plays for Sturt in the SANFL, 196cm bigger leap and faster than Naitanui at AIS testing last year
Good chance he may go to Gold Coast, but will be there abouts for Pick 4
He may also choose to go to the USA to pursue a career in basketball or baseball, very talented athlete

Cheers Inf, I will book that game in if its on.. , sounds like the goods, bigger leap and faster then Nat... sheesh, 

[Chuck17]

and what the hell are you doing writing 19 yr old 15 kg under weight ruckmen of.  you should know better having been around an afl club.

Well he wasn't given the rs for nothing was he

[Judge Roughneck]

Yep I am very harsh ,Why ?
I want us to be successful.
We hold onto players that we HOPEwill improve.
The successfull clubs dont live in HOPE.

Does that mean every single player is supposed to be at their peak the moment they arrive?
Clearly we can't count on them improving
A 19 year old ruckman in his 2nd year is hardly holding onto a player in the hope they improve, they're still a developing player
What a ridiculous attitude

Your post is the reason that the Tigers have been a failure.
We hold onto good ordinary footballers etc etc.
We require players with that Magic Touch.
Raw ability.  First year players at other clubs can turn it on, why cant ours ?
Posters on here talk about age and game numbers.
Our average age this weekend is  23.5 and games 62
Carlton is 23.4 and games 67
Freo 24.0 and 76.
There isnt much difference.
The difference is we hold onto players that havent got the abilty or touch of magic.
And lets be fair dinkum, if it wasnt for his Dads role at the club, would he be at Punt Rd ?? I think not.

on this you are way of the mark jack. vickery is in his second yr  hes skinny  lacks power  size strength but is being asked to play afl. and why, the simple answers are we need to fast track him but even then it may take 5 yrs and the other is hes all we have got. no one would blink if he was being developed at coburg but lets face it we dont have that luxury.
and what the hell are you doing writing 19 yr old 15 kg under weight ruckmen of.  you should know better having been around an afl club. for what its worth i think vickery has shown some very good signs at times. and yes he has not done much but ffs do we really expect much at this stage of his development. like i said if he had not played a game and spent his entire time at coburg noone would have bated an eyelid.
i tell you what lets have this conversation in 2 or 3 yrs time  when the skinny boy has become i hope a mature big bodied man. if he fails then i will join you in the critiques.

should be taken into account Browne & Vickery only 19 yoa. going to be tough at this stage at AFL level in the ruck

Graham is 23 which is young when consiter came off rookie list

Griffs should not be in the ruck you would think,    Westhoff/Polak cover at this stage - need to draft at least 1 more ruckman

[one-eyed]

Dimma is pleased we have a couple of ruckmen now in Gus and Ty to go forward with....

"I thought Angus Graham played his best game of the year last Saturday night.  Big Gus was terrific, winning 23 possessions and taking a dozen marks.  Marking is an area of his game that he’s really worked on, and he’s now starting to reap the benefits . . .

Our other ruckman, Ty Vickery, was good, too.  He took a couple of strong marks up forward and kicked 1.2.  I reckon our rucks are developing really well.  Ruckmen these days don’t play 100% game time, but to have a couple of them who can go forward, take a few grabs and kick goals, is very important for us."

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/ARCHIVEPAGES/SecureSignonTest/GreenbergsGrabs/tabid/15918/Default.aspx