Tanking verses Belief, Structure and Faith?

[Infamy]

They still weren't the major contributors

[tony_montana]

They still weren't the major contributors

that's purely opinion, what is fact is without them there wouldn't have been a premiership.

[the claw]

bit late for this thread i think the damage has already been done not just this yr but last yr as well.
meaningless wins are just that meaningless. you can get faith and belief with out actually winning games. in fact the order is firstly tank that should directly aid structure  when you have enough quality and the cattle to actually win regularly faith and belif take care of themselves.

no point building up unrealistic expectations and with it false belief and faith just to have it knocked out of like it was on the weekend. where was the faith structure and belief then.

cattle first people the rest will almost take care of itself.

[Francois Jackson]

melbourne batch of kids of young players looked strong today

Their best players were still Green, Bruce, Sylvia & Jamar who aren't exactly kids

yes true, their young players were very good however. They are staerting to remind me of Hawthorn 2006. Plethora of early draft picks, late season surge (2006) which catapults them to finals in 2007. Reckon Dees are set, have done their time and will soon show how good they will be in the coming years

Except, contrary to popular opinion, it wasn't the plethora of early picks that got the Hawks to the finals. Buddy, Roughead & Lewis certainly played a big part, but the rest was their existing list.

I think you'll find that abt 10 of their GF 22 were drafted from 04 onwards and make no mistake this is a direct result from having plenty of early picks to use on bluechip talent. They got themselves a lot of early draft picks from the thompson, Hay trades as well as PP's. Now not all their early draft picks worked like Thorpe and Dowler but what it actually enabled them to do was get their list structues correct quickly which enabled them to draft players like Gilham, Guerra & Dew.

Franklin(5)
Roughead(2)
Lewis(7)
Ellis(3)
Birchall(14)
Rioli(12)
Renouf(24)

that's 7 top draftees in a short span that played in the GF, I'd call that a plethora of young draftees directly assisting the Hawks to win a flag.

spot on TM.

[Francois Jackson]

They may have had 1/3 of their list from 2004 or afterwards, however it wasn't the reason they won the flag
The reason they won was the 14 or so senior players on their list from before Clarkson arrived

rubbish. Their flag came from the 2005 draft. Wouldnt have come close to a flag without their picks from that one or any of the ones after

[Infamy]

They may have had 1/3 of their list from 2004 or afterwards, however it wasn't the reason they won the flag
The reason they won was the 14 or so senior players on their list from before Clarkson arrived

rubbish. Their flag came from the 2005 draft. Wouldnt have come close to a flag without their picks from that one or any of the ones after

Yeah Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Travis Tuck, Mitch Thorp, Jarryd Morton, Josh Kennedy & Garry Moss had a massive impact on their premiership

[Gordon Bennett]

They may have had 1/3 of their list from 2004 or afterwards, however it wasn't the reason they won the flag
The reason they won was the 14 or so senior players on their list from before Clarkson arrived

rubbish. Their flag came from the 2005 draft. Wouldnt have come close to a flag without their picks from that one or any of the ones after

Yeah Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Travis Tuck, Mitch Thorp, Jarryd Morton, Josh Kennedy & Garry Moss had a massive impact on their premiership

I'm reluctant to say it, but Infamy is regularly running rings around a lot of you guys because he uses solid argument backed up with proper examples. There is no substitute for these methods. Research + common sense + logic + reasoned argument   >   bluster + illogical statements + myth + guess work

[1965]

They may have had 1/3 of their list from 2004 or afterwards, however it wasn't the reason they won the flag
The reason they won was the 14 or so senior players on their list from before Clarkson arrived

rubbish. Their flag came from the 2005 draft. Wouldnt have come close to a flag without their picks from that one or any of the ones after

Yeah Beau Dowler, Max Bailey, Beau Muston, Travis Tuck, Mitch Thorp, Jarryd Morton, Josh Kennedy & Garry Moss had a massive impact on their premiership

I'm reluctant to say it, but Infamy is regularly running rings around a lot of you guys because he uses solid argument backed up with proper examples. There is no substitute for these methods. Research + common sense + logic + reasoned argument    >   bluster + illogical statements + myth + guess work

Infamy?

Well eff me I've heard it all now.

 

[tony_montana]

I'm reluctant to say it, but Infamy is regularly running rings around a lot of you guys because he uses solid argument backed up with proper examples. There is no substitute for these methods. Research + common sense + logic + reasoned argument   >   bluster + illogical statements + myth + guess work

Excuse me? 

My post stated that 10 of the hawks premiership side was drafted post 2004 of which 7 came from a "plethora" of early draft picks which then enabled them to get their list structures right quickly which in turn enabled them to draft mature players like Guerra, Dew & Gilham. Now I don't know about you and infamy but 10 players is a pretty significant contribution to a premiership. Inf states they werent the reason the other 12 established players were and then you tell us he's running rings around us with facts? lol give me a break

[Ramps]

Its all rubbish anyway unless everyone does the Ramps Multiwave Recruitment you cant expect any club to succeed. How many times do I need to say it "Its all the way with Multiwave" 

[Go Richo 12]

Its all rubbish anyway unless everyone does the Ramps Multiwave Recruitment you cant expect any club to succeed. How many times do I need to say it "Its all the way with Multiwave" 

Can you refresh our memories on the meaning of "multiwave", please?
Is that something you learnt from Jade Rawlings?

[Ramps]

Its all rubbish anyway unless everyone does the Ramps Multiwave Recruitment you cant expect any club to succeed. How many times do I need to say it "Its all the way with Multiwave"  

Can you refresh our memories on the meaning of "multiwave", please?
Is that something you learnt from Jade Rawlings?

whose jade rawlings?  

[Infamy]

I'm reluctant to say it, but Infamy is regularly running rings around a lot of you guys because he uses solid argument backed up with proper examples. There is no substitute for these methods. Research + common sense + logic + reasoned argument   >   bluster + illogical statements + myth + guess work

Excuse me? 

My post stated that 10 of the hawks premiership side was drafted post 2004 of which 7 came from a "plethora" of early draft picks which then enabled them to get their list structures right quickly which in turn enabled them to draft mature players like Guerra, Dew & Gilham. Now I don't know about you and infamy but 10 players is a pretty significant contribution to a premiership. Inf states they werent the reason the other 12 established players were and then you tell us he's running rings around us with facts? lol give me a break

I'm not arguing that there were plenty of players from those drafts playing in the grand final team. My argument is that it wasn't these players that won them the match. Roughead, Franklin, Rioli & Renouf were amongst the lowest possession winners on the ground.

Ellis & Lewis were the best of the young bunch, but it was Sewell (24yo), Hodge(24), Osborne(26), Crawford(34), Guerra(26), Dew(29), Bateman(27), Brown(25), Williams(25), Ladson(24), Gilham(24) & Mitchell(25) that were the core of that side and the good performers on the day. None of those players were obtained by tanking. Even Lewis who was very good in the grand final was obtained by trading, not tanking, it was only Ellis of the well performed players in the grand final that was obtained by tanking.

In the end though, it was Geelong who lost that match, Hawthorn were the Steven Bradbury of the 2008 Grand Final.

[tony_montana]

I'm reluctant to say it, but Infamy is regularly running rings around a lot of you guys because he uses solid argument backed up with proper examples. There is no substitute for these methods. Research + common sense + logic + reasoned argument   >   bluster + illogical statements + myth + guess work

Excuse me? 

My post stated that 10 of the hawks premiership side was drafted post 2004 of which 7 came from a "plethora" of early draft picks which then enabled them to get their list structures right quickly which in turn enabled them to draft mature players like Guerra, Dew & Gilham. Now I don't know about you and infamy but 10 players is a pretty significant contribution to a premiership. Inf states they werent the reason the other 12 established players were and then you tell us he's running rings around us with facts? lol give me a break

I'm not arguing that there were plenty of players from those drafts playing in the grand final team. My argument is that it wasn't these players that won them the match. Roughead, Franklin, Rioli & Renouf were amongst the lowest possession winners on the ground.

Ellis & Lewis were the best of the young bunch, but it was Sewell (24yo), Hodge(24), Osborne(26), Crawford(34), Guerra(26), Dew(29), Bateman(27), Brown(25), Williams(25), Ladson(24), Gilham(24) & Mitchell(25) that were the core of that side and the good performers on the day. None of those players were obtained by tanking. Even Lewis who was very good in the grand final was obtained by trading, not tanking, it was only Ellis of the well performed players in the grand final that was obtained by tanking.

In the end though, it was Geelong who lost that match, Hawthorn were the Steven Bradbury of the 2008 Grand Final.

Its not only the performance on the day, its who got them there, but even so, the 2 players who turned the game on its head after halftime were rioli with a couple of game changing tackles and Dew(btw as I mentioned earlier, dew,gilham,guerra were there bc the hawks got so many top draft picks through tanking and trading and subsequently could pull the trigger on these types late). Agree Geelong blew it in the end

[torch]

Tanking v B.S.F

Tanking ... B.S.F is already at Richmond!

The past two weeks have proven to me that we need Quality.

108 Point Loss v Geelong (R6)

82 Point Loss v Collingwood (R17)

72 Point Loss v Western (R2)

Five 50-60 Point Losses v Carlton, Sydeny, Melbourne, Adelaide & North Melbourne.

Eight of 12 Losses have been smashings.

That tells me that we have too many players that are not up to it.

I am sick of getting smashed!

So if we are going to clean out our list ... TANK!

Do not forget!

Our season was over after Round 9!

ZERO AND NINE!

Winning matches now is a waste.

Round 8 to Round 15 should of told every Richmond supporter WE CAN PLAY!

However, we have to many holes to fill ... so lets fill them with the best 17/18 year olds we can get!

Collins, Connors, Riewoldt last year had question marks against them.

This year, as of today, they will be apart of our 11th Premiership!

So we have found some keepers!

How are we meant to find players if we do not draft the best talent out there?

Right now, it looks like we have found a player in Astbury.

Nason? Possibly?

Griffiths? Possibly?

Martin ... so no more!

Four first year players are certain to be in our 11th Premiership!

So, seven players from this years list will be in our 11th Premiership!

TANK TANK TANK TANK TANK!

It is not about 2010 or 2011.

2012 and beyond!

Do not be fooled!

Pick 4 is better then Pick 6!

You would always take the best Pick!

Do not care who went at this pick and that pick.

Ask yourself, would you take $100 (Pick 4) or $50 (Pick 6) for free?