THE GRIGG vs COLLINS DEBATE!

[mightytiges]

My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade  .

[WA Tiger]

The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward. 

Agree OE, but we do need to find them first.

[Willy]

King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert.  

[tiger till i die]

King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert.  

Spot on 

[WA Tiger]

King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert.  

Needs to back it up mate and he didnt do that to any great extent this year IMO, had a couple of good games as did Collins but Collins is 22..

[Heart of Darkness]

My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade  .

Good point mightytiges but i believe there is more chance that Grigg, playing with confidence in a system he understands, can improve his footskills than there is Andy putting on 8 kg and developing some defensive pressure. Maybe me just trying to be optimistic but the offseason is the time for that

[mightytiges]

The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward. 

Agree OE, but we do need to find them first.

True. Taylor is one we will hope comes on.

[mightytiges]

My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade  .

Good point mightytiges but i believe there is more chance that Grigg, playing with confidence in a system he understands, can improve his footskills than there is Andy putting on 8 kg and developing some defensive pressure. Maybe me just trying to be optimistic but the offseason is the time for that

If it's due in part to poor-ish decision making then yes it's something a good coach with a good structured team could "fix". However if it's a technical skill flaw then it become something difficult to fix in an adult footballer other than perhaps a 5% improvement with lots of practice IMO.

ps. Welcome aboard OER by the way.

[jezza]

Not like Collins had great decision making abilities either, although the number of times he got run down from behind seemed to reduce as the year went on.

[mightytiges]

Not like Collins had great decision making abilities either, although the number of times he got run down from behind seemed to reduce as the year went on.

Like I said I don't have issues with Collo being traded unlike some Tiger supporters who are carrying on (especially on BF). To me this is a sideways trade. Swapping one player with a flaw (too slight) for another player with different flaw (dodgy footskills) ..... meh! The only positive is it didn't cost us a pick.

[Willy]

King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert.  

Needs to back it up mate and he didnt do that to any great extent this year IMO, had a couple of good games as did Collins but Collins is 22..

agreed.
but all players, always need to back up strong performances.
Doesn't mean it's not encouraging or cause for enthusiasm.
I had Kingy marked for the axe. not anymore...

[jezza]

Like I said I don't have issues with Collo being traded unlike some Tiger supporters who are carrying on (especially on BF). To me this is a sideways trade. Swapping one player with a flaw (too slight) for another player with different flaw (dodgy footskills) ..... meh! The only positive is it didn't cost us a pick.

No problem with Collins for Grigg. The only negative is we didn't get another pick or an upgrade given the respective contractual situations.

[mightytiges]

No problem with Collins for Grigg. The only negative is we didn't get another pick or an upgrade given the respective contractual situations.

We obviously couldn't get Grigg and Houli in the PSD so I guess the Grigg trade was by far the more realistic option. Essendon is acting the desperate rabble they are at the minute with their laughable demands for Houli.

ps. Not holding my breath but if Jacobs fell into our lap in the PSD then we'd screw over the Blues anyhow lol.

[TigerTimeII]

there is no debate


grigg is now a tiger
collins isnt

end of story


suck it up


ps at least we upgraded  far more upside in grigg

[TigerLand]

Watch Grigg to learn off Shane Tuck and mould into a player to fill Shane's role after he finishes up which unfortunatly is within probably 3 seasons max you would think.

Collins can be replaced through mid range draft selections where as Shane Tucks role is lot difficult and I think Grigg will slot in perfectly.

Good trade in my opinion and RFC won out but after hearing Grigg turned down a Carlton contract and wanted to come to Richmond for the exact same $ it hurts that we couldn't have had a big win instead of a small win. Sad to see a Tiger favourite in a Carlton jumper.

RFC Faithful is ruthless I hope they allow Griff to warm into it and don't over rate Collins' omission from the squad.

Grigg will definitely add more to the squad than Collins.