THE GRIGG vs COLLINS DEBATE!

[Owl]

Im with Jezza.  Carlton punk everyone so do the Skunks, so do Essendon.  I am still waiting for some square ups with Sydney and Collingwood on trades actually.  Sydney boned us a few times, one day I hope we shatter one of their big trades, steal one of their good players while they are trying to build again and enjoy their contsernation.  Personally I don't care if we ever square up with Collingwood because I just don't want to trade with them ever, I don't rate their players and I hate acknowledging them in any way whatsoever.

[WA Tiger]

Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.

Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.

Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.

[Chuck17]

King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.

[Ramps]

this thread should probably be closed now. everyone has had there say and nothing can change the outcome. so i reckon close thread so we can all get on with discussing other issues.

[Heart of Darkness]

Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.

Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.

Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.

I don't think Collins proved himself to be a 2-3 goal a game forward. He, like many others on the list, had a purple patch during our winning streak in the middle of the season but beyond that i feel he showed a lot less than last year. Too many fans i believe have romanticised Collins' performance against Sydney because it was one of our best wins in years but the fact is that there are still many 20-23 year old players on this list yet to show they can be a part of a finals bound 22 (White, Rance, Graham, Nahas, Hislop, Farmer) and Collins was one of these. Edwards took that step this year, but most of these players i dare soay wont. Remember this is the time we have to ruthless in terms of developing our list not the time to be convincing ourselves our list is better than it is.

[WA Tiger]

King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.

Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.

[tiger till i die]

King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.

Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.

NO.. Kingy is awsome and is getting better with every game unlike most players ... he is a hard worker and will be good for us in teh long run 

[WA Tiger]

Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.

Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.

Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.

I don't think Collins proved himself to be a 2-3 goal a game forward. He, like many others on the list, had a purple patch during our winning streak in the middle of the season but beyond that i feel he showed a lot less than last year. Too many fans i believe have romanticised Collins' performance against Sydney because it was one of our best wins in years but the fact is that there are still many 20-23 year old players on this list yet to show they can be a part of a finals bound 22 (White, Rance, Graham, Nahas, Hislop, Farmer) and Collins was one of these. Edwards took that step this year, but most of these players i dare soay wont. Remember this is the time we have to ruthless in terms of developing our list not the time to be convincing ourselves our list is better than it is.

Was it a purple patch or is he actually starting to perform after all the years of development that we have put into him?? I really don't care about his performance against Sydney, but was he or is he on the way up....only time will tell I suppose. Being ruthless is great at trade week but being stupid is another thing... Roden

[Penelope]

this thread should probably be closed now. everyone has had there say and nothing can change the outcome. so i reckon close thread so we can all get on with discussing other issues.

Or at least change the name.

Interesting thing. Now we have grigg we have three of the 2008 rising star nominations on our list. Get houli we have 4.

[WA Tiger]

King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.

Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.

NO.. Kingy is awsome and is getting better with every game unlike most players ... he is a hard worker and will be good for us in teh long run 

Awsome... really... all Australian... awsome... cant agree. He is an average player we couldnt even trade if we wanted to. Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.

[yellowandback]

King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.

Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.

I'm not sure we'd have attracted any interest in King but the point about developing Collins is absolutely spot on.
We need to get the "developing our own" right first - the foreign legion mentality has not worked at this club for 10 years and in fact has sent us backwards.
Baby steps, get the development program with our draftees first, then top up with other clubs talent.
Cannot believe the people don't see the learning from our recent track record.

[tiger till i die]

" Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.

Im sorry but did you see the goals he was kicking in the second half of the season? Even the comintators were saying this when we played Port, that he can kick a goal from 50 meters.. i have to disagree with you on this one he DOSE NOT have the worst kick and has. In fact a good one now thanks to our Foward coachs and Dimma.

He controls his Passion and Anger into his preformance rather than players (Didak)  

He will defaintly be with us foward wether you like it or not.

[Heart of Darkness]

Jakes field kicking and kicking for goal over the last month or so of the season was fantastic. Think it could well be a confidence thing for him, also probably helping him being in the forward line knowing that not every kicking mistake will cost us dearly. Still will have to play like he did for the last month to consolidate his place on the list come 2012 (Unless he signed on for another two years this year???)

[WA Tiger]

" Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.

Im sorry but did you see the goals he was kicking in the second half of the season? Even the comintators were saying this when we played Port, that he can kick a goal from 50 meters.. i have to disagree with you on this one he DOSE NOT have the worst kick and has. In fact a good one now thanks to our Foward coachs and Dimma.

He controls his Passion and Anger into his preformance rather than players (Didak)  

He will defaintly be with us foward wether you like it or not.

Wether I like it or not, exactly, if he is in our team I will support him, but really, remember his kicks out of the backline, how many times did he either turn it over or kick it out on the full..I backed King in the year before this when EVERYONE including commentators were sying to delist him or trade him. IMHO he is not the way forward and I think you will see him playing for Coburg al lot, barring injury, in his last last next year... my opinion only though.

[one-eyed]

The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward.