All kids we picked up were on the RFC site's leaked list

[Smokey]

Interesting the SEN couldn't interview any Richmond officials after the draft because they "had to" high tail it out of there. I wonder how compromised our draft was. We will probably never know. The PR line will be we got all the people we wanted. If MT was able to get the list you can be damn sure others did too.

How compromised could it have been if every player we picked was on our list?  Gee there's some unfounded panicking going on in this forum tonight!  For a start, how anyone could not be very impressed with Conca's credentials, achievements, reports and highlights is beyond me.  Add to that the track record of the current group responsible for identifying and selecting our draft picks I find it quite astounding that the Chicken Littles are already running amok.  But then again, maybe I don't.   ???

It actually could have been very compromised however neither of us will never know unless we are in the inner circle. About the only selection I know for sure that we got that we wanted to get at that point was pick 6. You see we don't know what the priority order was. Without knowing that we will never know if we were beaten to any picks, Lycett is possibly one but without knowing the priority of picks we can't say for sure, they may have considered Batchelor a priority over Lycett. I can tell you this though, that if we lost at least 1 selection over this ineptitude, then that DOES constitute a compromised draft, It only takes one.

Please explain to me how we could possibly have lost a pick over "this ineptitude"?  We don't have any control or real clue about who is going to be taken before us, especially after the initial early pick.  Every club would have a list similar to ours with many of the same names and just because they are on a list means nothing regarding when they will or won't be taken.  I just don't see the issue as anything worth slitting my wrist over but the reaction of some on here tonight would indicate otherwise.  What specifically is wrong with any of our picks?

[Rodgerramjet]

Interesting the SEN couldn't interview any Richmond officials after the draft because they "had to" high tail it out of there. I wonder how compromised our draft was. We will probably never know. The PR line will be we got all the people we wanted. If MT was able to get the list you can be damn sure others did too.

How compromised could it have been if every player we picked was on our list?  Gee there's some unfounded panicking going on in this forum tonight!  For a start, how anyone could not be very impressed with Conca's credentials, achievements, reports and highlights is beyond me.  Add to that the track record of the current group responsible for identifying and selecting our draft picks I find it quite astounding that the Chicken Littles are already running amok.  But then again, maybe I don't.   ???

It actually could have been very compromised however neither of us will never know unless we are in the inner circle. About the only selection I know for sure that we got that we wanted to get at that point was pick 6. You see we don't know what the priority order was. Without knowing that we will never know if we were beaten to any picks, Lycett is possibly one but without knowing the priority of picks we can't say for sure, they may have considered Batchelor a priority over Lycett. I can tell you this though, that if we lost at least 1 selection over this ineptitude, then that DOES constitute a compromised draft, It only takes one.

Please explain to me how we could possibly have lost a pick over "this ineptitude"?  We don't have any control or real clue about who is going to be taken before us, especially after the initial early pick.  Every club would have a list similar to ours with many of the same names and just because they are on a list means nothing regarding when they will or won't be taken.  I just don't see the issue as anything worth slitting my wrist over but the reaction of some on here tonight would indicate otherwise.  What specifically is wrong with any of our picks?

Your not looking Smokey. Let me ask you this, would you think it would be proper practise for a club once it had figured out a short list say of 15 to 20 potential draft picks to then inform any one or all of existing opposition teams of that short list? Because what happened today was potentially just that. MT was able to get, through some basic code that entire list, which means that anybody else out there with the same level of skill or know-how could have done same and potentially passed it on to competing clubs. The club cannot bury its head in the sand over this it is the second time material has been compromised before the fact, the B&F being the first.

[Smokey]

Your not looking Smokey. Let me ask you this, would you think it would be proper practise for a club once it had figured out a short list say of 15 to 20 potential draft picks to then inform any one or all of existing opposition teams of that short list? Because what happened today was potentially just that. MT was able to get, through some basic code that entire list, which means that anybody else out there with the same level of skill or know-how could have done same and potentially passed it on to competing clubs. The club cannot bury its head in the sand over this it is the second time material has been compromised before the fact, the B&F being the first.

No, I don't think it would be proper practice but nor do I think it would be that earth shattering.  A list of names is just that and when it is a list of 20 out of 100-ish with no accompanying rank/priority/preference then I don't see how that can be a 'smoking gun'.  All clubs would only be able to have a best guess at where we rated the names on that list, especially after Conca, and when our 2nd pick was 30 then it would have been just as risky/foolhardy for another club to make a decision based on that list.  If the list had included a rating of some sort then I would agree with you but a list on it's own is just that - a 'dumb' list.  And I'm not suggesting for a moment that the club bury it's head in the sand over it but in the normal course of workplace practice I would expect the management responsible to deal with the matter appropriately after all the facts are uncovered.  I certainly wouldn't be calling for heads to roll unless the act was premeditated or a repeat of gross incompetence.

[Rodgerramjet]

Your not looking Smokey. Let me ask you this, would you think it would be proper practise for a club once it had figured out a short list say of 15 to 20 potential draft picks to then inform any one or all of existing opposition teams of that short list? Because what happened today was potentially just that. MT was able to get, through some basic code that entire list, which means that anybody else out there with the same level of skill or know-how could have done same and potentially passed it on to competing clubs. The club cannot bury its head in the sand over this it is the second time material has been compromised before the fact, the B&F being the first.

No, I don't think it would be proper practice

That's it, right their. You've answered it, that's all I'm saying. everything else is irrelevant, If the club corrects that which happened today, then that's a good thing.

[Smokey]

Your not looking Smokey. Let me ask you this, would you think it would be proper practise for a club once it had figured out a short list say of 15 to 20 potential draft picks to then inform any one or all of existing opposition teams of that short list? Because what happened today was potentially just that. MT was able to get, through some basic code that entire list, which means that anybody else out there with the same level of skill or know-how could have done same and potentially passed it on to competing clubs. The club cannot bury its head in the sand over this it is the second time material has been compromised before the fact, the B&F being the first.

No, I don't think it would be proper practice

That's it, right their. You've answered it, that's all I'm saying. everything else is irrelevant, If the club corrects that which happened today, then that's a good thing.

Nice response RRJ, picking half of one sentence and saying that's all you wanted to hear.  Take the whole statement in context.  The list appearing on the website was an unintentional mistake that had the potential to do very little if any damage, so there was no compromise.  And if there was no compromise then the only relevant thing you have said is that it will be a good thing when the club corrects the cause of the error.

[Ramps]

The list being made public was of no consequence because hardly any of the other clubs would have chosen any of the players we chose after Conca - and if they had most would have been taken after pick 60

[Penelope]

To me there are two seperate incidents caused by different factors.

The publishing of the Conca article was most probably caused by someone hitting the publish button rather than the save button. It is a careless mistake.

The ability to gain the names of all those other potential draftees is a different thing. These pages were not even published, but they existed.  I had a play around with a CMS i use and unpublished a page. When i reloaded that loaded page in my browser, the URL stayed the same but i got a message that i was unauthorised to access the page, just the same as those on the RFC website. The difference is that The URL this older CMS generates is not human or search engine friendly. That is there is nothing in there to indicate the content of the page, such as players names, as in the URL generated by the Telstra CMS.

I can understand how this was overlooked. It's not an obvious thing.

Whoever worked out how to find these pages is one smart cookie 

[tiga]

I agree with Smokey on this.
If anyone thinks the leaking of our favoured picks at such a late stage had any affect on proceedings last night then you are kidding yourselves. Sure we don't like other clubs, but to think that their recruitment staff would change their selection list at such a late stage just to spite Richmond is just plain ridiculous.

Its like the Lions saying "oh crap...Richmond is picking Reece Conca, never heard of this kid before, quick go to bigpond video and check him out, he may be a gun....hmmm okay...looks the goods...can kick...has good poise...okay shaft the Polec decision, we are going with this kid Conca because Richmond Obviously rate him and hey...Emma Quayle has been rating him for a few days now...phew...lucky we picked that one up at the last minute! Decision confirmed, Conca it is at 5! " 

I am extremely confident that all the clubs selection strategies would have been in place prior to any of the leaked info.

[one-eyed]

Oops #1
RICHMOND set its heart on Perth onballer Reece Conca around the middle of the year, and got him. The word got out a week or two before the draft and suspicions were confirmed when someone hacked into the club's website and found a ''why we picked him'' profile they had written up and left sitting there, waiting for someone to hit the ''go live'' button. Needless to say it very quickly ended up on several other websites, and many people's email in-boxes.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/draft-talk-20101119-1813t.html

[mightytiges]

Its like the Lions saying "oh crap...Richmond is picking Reece Conca, never heard of this kid before, quick go to bigpond video and check him out, he may be a gun....hmmm okay...looks the goods...can kick...has good poise...okay shaft the Polec decision, we are going with this kid Conca because Richmond Obviously rate him and hey...Emma Quayle has been rating him for a few days now...phew...lucky we picked that one up at the last minute! Decision confirmed, Conca it is at 5! " 

Sounds like our recruiting method under Beck and Miller  .


Just on this thread - it was firstly and mainly started just to stay all 5 of the kids we picked up were on our wanted list so we didn't have to go outside that list. IIRC FJ and co. didn't once request extra-time when it was our turn to pick unlike other clubs. The second point was the names leaked on the RFC site were NOT just a random selection of draftees names. The Club knew who they were after and only those few (13 or so) profiles were created. The club's IT guy should never have made these files accessible to the public as on AFL and all Telstra-run club websites it's so simple and quite common for people to access files about to go online before they do just by flicking through the next few numbers in the filename starting from the number belonging to the most recent article posted. To call it "hacking" is laughable. You hardly need to belong to MENSA or be Hugh Jackman in Swordfish to access these files lol. In the end the leak didn't make a difference on draft day looking in from the outside because all 5 came from the leaked list but a similar act of carelessness next time could. Remember last year FJ got wind of Brisbane wanting Dea at pick 47 so we grabbed him at pick 44 instead of our next pick 51 as originally planned.

[Penelope]

While it may be easy to access the names, once you know how the working it out took a bit of thought and knowledge.

For a start, the links to unpublished pages that OE listed all had the names of the player in their URL, so it wasnt just a case of randomly putting in numbers. The live link that Wayne gave us was only numbers, so I'm not too sure why that was. I did try different numbers with this url and got nothing.

The publishing of the reece conca page was most probably a careless mistake by the IT bloke, but the rest , to me is more an unawareness of the possible security loophole in the software used. Now that the club is aware of it, i'm pretty sure they will take measures to ensure it doesnt happen again.

While it may be obvious in hindsight I think it is more of kudos to those that worked out how to exploit it, rather than condemning those that use it and were unaware of the potential.

One Eyed, would you be able put the list of links or even just the names of the players back up now that the draft is over please?

[tony_montana]

Its like the Lions saying "oh crap...Richmond is picking Reece Conca, never heard of this kid before, quick go to bigpond video and check him out, he may be a gun....hmmm okay...looks the goods...can kick...has good poise...okay shaft the Polec decision, we are going with this kid Conca because Richmond Obviously rate him and hey...Emma Quayle has been rating him for a few days now...phew...lucky we picked that one up at the last minute! Decision confirmed, Conca it is at 5! " 

Sounds like our recruiting method under Beck and Miller  .


Just on this thread - it was firstly and mainly started just to stay all 5 of the kids we picked up were on our wanted list so we didn't have to go outside that list. IIRC FJ and co. didn't once request extra-time when it was our turn to pick unlike other clubs. The second point was the names leaked on the RFC site were NOT just a random selection of draftees names. The Club knew who they were after and only those few (13 or so) profiles were created. The club's IT guy should never have made these files accessible to the public as on AFL and all Telstra-run club websites it's so simple and quite common for people to access files about to go online before they do just by flicking through the next few numbers in the filename starting from the number belonging to the most recent article posted. To call it "hacking" is laughable. You hardly need to belong to MENSA or be Hugh Jackman in Swordfish to access these files lol. In the end the leak didn't make a difference on draft day looking in from the outside because all 5 came from the leaked list but a similar act of carelessness next time could. Remember last year FJ got wind of Brisbane wanting Dea at pick 47 so we grabbed him at pick 44 instead of our next pick 51 as originally planned.

well said mt, i dont think it had a bearing on who we picked - but it was a silly error that should not be happening. Hopefully the club has learnt from this

[one-eyed]

Now the draft period is over I can post the full 'leaked' list of draftees we were interested in. We picked up 6 of the 13 all up. If Casserly is rookied that'll make it 7.



Reece Conca
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/ReeceConca/tabid/15501/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Ben Haren
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/BenHaren/tabid/15506/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Ben Jacoki
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/BenJakobi/tabid/15507/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Ben Jacobs
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/BenJacobs/tabid/15508/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Tom Derickx
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/TomDerickx/tabid/15509/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Jake Bachelor
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/JakeBatchelor/tabid/15510/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Travis Casserley
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/TravisCasserly/tabid/15511/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Cam Guthrie
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/CamGuthrie/tabid/15512/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Scott Lycett
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/ScottLycett/tabid/15513/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Jed Lamb
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/JedLamb/tabid/15514/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Dean McDonald
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/DeanMacDonald/tabid/15515/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Jeremy Howe
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/JeremyHowe/tabid/15516/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Matt Jones
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/MattJones/tabid/15518/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

Brad Helbig
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/News/2010NationalDraftNews/BradHelbig/tabid/15519/ctl/Access+Denied/Default.aspx?message=You+do+not+have+access+to+view+this+tab+within+the+portal.

[crackertiger]

What Happend with Matt Jones? I can't find him drafted anywhere!