Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 993243 times)

Gigantor

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2115 on: March 09, 2014, 11:05:46 AM »
From what we read in the papers and in the media  in general there appears to be substantial rorting of the welfare system.
However my issue is with middle class welfare .Do they really need welfare?Did we need the baby bonus or the first home buyers grant(where all that does is make builders and developers increase the price).Do we need the paid parental leave on such a scale?
And I had a chuckle at Gina reinharts comments about welfare ,when at the same time shes calling for a special economic zone in the north ,just sheer co incidence that she has business interests in that region

Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2116 on: March 09, 2014, 11:15:52 AM »
an interesting issue you raise about things like the first home buyers grant. there are many that argue, as you say, that it just pushes the prices of housing up.
the old principle of supply and demand suggests that it does.

but what are the effects of just dropping it? house building is great indicator, and most probably an important factor,  of how the economy is traveling.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Gigantor

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2117 on: March 09, 2014, 01:28:44 PM »
Honestly Al..i don't know the answers to the questions you raise,what I do know is that when people spruik that welfare costs are expanding way too much,they are correct,however there are 2 sides to every coin and that business welfare and or middle class welfare also needs to be addressed if we are to have this discussion

Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2118 on: March 09, 2014, 02:18:06 PM »
i suppose the first question is are welfare costs really expanding to that great of an extent? and if so why?
To be honest Im not to sure that there is much business welfare, and even the middle class welfare is not so cut and dried.

My thoughts tend to be against it, but this discussion has been held before and there have been some good arguments for it put forward.

The real issue is not so much the cost in dollars, but the effect it has in stimulating spending, which after all is the basis of a sound economy.
You could also throw in the political ideology of how much the government should be involved in stimulating economic growth.

Weather its simply the scale of our economy or it is a general thing i dont know, but i do believe that government spending is vital to the Australian economy, something highlighted by the fact that, except for under the Howard government,  nearly every time the government, of whatever persuasion, recorded a budget surplus, we slipped into recession soon after.

The howard government avoided this due to them being the highest taxing governement in our history, thanks to the GST, and record private sector debt driving not just ours, but the world economy.

And when this huge public sector debt eventually caused economies to collapse around the world, it was government spending, in the stimulus package, that helped us avoid a recession. we did go close, but those quarters of negative growth were only small negatives and we avoided the pain than many other countries felt.

Does paying someone who earns 150k a substantial paternal leave handout really do much to add stimulus to spending? unlikely.

But those on 50-60k? yeah it probably does. It also enables more people to breed, which our pyramid scheme, growth based economy needs in the long term.

Should we be spending so much money on a Disability scheme.?
I suppose that comes down to whether you believe in the dog eat dog nature of capitalism and screw anyone unlucky enough to be unable to compete,that we are all individuals competing against each other and the concept of society is dirt, or weather you believe that as a society we collectively should look after the vulnerable.

And then there is the unemployed, the dole bludgers. the easy target of right wing media to use to whip the lowest common denominator into a feeding frenzy. The real irony is that many want to label welfare as some sort of socialist drain on our resources, yet most truly socialist countries do not (or did not) have such schemes. if you wanted bread on the table you worked for it. if you got inured and couldn't do your job anymore, you were given a different job that you could do.



Stuff me, that turned out longer than i planned.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Gigantor

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2119 on: March 09, 2014, 04:37:04 PM »
AL do you classify the disability scheme as middle class welfare?I certainly don't.
This type of government activity I'm in favour of as it targets areas in a society which are desperate for help

Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2120 on: March 09, 2014, 05:26:28 PM »
nah, i dont class it as middle class welfare. it is welfare though, and will contribute largely to welfare cost expanding.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2121 on: March 09, 2014, 09:24:12 PM »
WGAF

Ban welfare ffs

Give money to those that need it

Mining companies
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 02:13:44 PM by Judge Roughneck »

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2122 on: March 11, 2014, 02:09:43 PM »

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2124 on: March 13, 2014, 02:28:03 PM »
http://talkingpoints.com.au/2014/03/r-p-free-speech-protesters-can-now-charged-750-2-years-gaol-attending-protests-victoria/

Two years in jail for saying killing Babies is not cool  :clapping

Or anything the police doesn't think you should be allowed to say

Good work Melbourne

In Australia
A new law has been passed (VLAD) which will allow the government to jail almost anyone it does not like for 15 years. http://www.guestlawyers.com.au/index.php/blog/are-you-a-vicious-lawless-associate.html[8]
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 02:47:24 PM by Judge Roughneck »

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2125 on: March 13, 2014, 05:23:08 PM »
Quote
Northern Territory chief minister Adam Giles is facing calls to act on the incarceration of Roseanne Fulton, a mentally impaired Indigneous woman languishing in a Kalgoorlie jail, despite never facing trial or being convicted of a crime.

Fulton has spent the past 18 months in a West Australian prison after she crashed a stolen car and was charged with driving offences. Born with foetal alcohol syndrome, Fulton, 24, was ruled by a magistrate to be unfit to plead or face trial.

Rejected for a place in an Alice Springs secure facility, Kwiyernpe House, designed for intellectually impaired people, Fulton has remained in prison in Kalgoorlie, hundreds of kilometres from her family and home in the Northern Territory.

“They’re leaving Roseanne in prison, neglected, forgotten and ignored. She is desperately sad and wants to return to the NT. She deserves care and kindness, not prison bars and more abuse,” Fulton’s legal guardian, former NT police officer Ian McKinlay, said.

He speaks to her daily by phone. “She’s just bewildered, she doesn’t know why she’s there and why she’s stayed so long,” McKinlay said.

She is one of at least 30 Aboriginal people in the same situation, according to the Aboriginal Disability Justice Campaign.

Since ABC’s Lateline program revealed the story, McKinlay has set up a petition demanding NT chief minister Adam Giles have Fulton moved to a supported care facility.

“The NT government has wiped their hands of her. Despite building a brand new facility to care for people like Roseanne, the NT government is refusing to offer her a secure care placement that would allow her release. But it seems they think it’ll save a few dollars keeping her in jail instead of in proper care,” McKinlay said.

The petition asks Giles and the NT government “to offer Roseanne a place in proper care rather than leaving her locked in a prison indefinitely”.

In Victoria and NSW, cases such as Fulton’s are offered disability services and specialist accommodation.

The NT corrections department and health department both declined to comment.

 :clapping

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2126 on: March 13, 2014, 05:59:38 PM »
You know the rules

Link for the article Bents or gets removed
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from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2127 on: March 13, 2014, 07:14:20 PM »
Just like her human rights.  :'(

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2128 on: March 14, 2014, 08:32:11 PM »

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #2129 on: March 19, 2014, 05:02:21 AM »

More on Peta Credlin

Tony Abbott's surprise cabinet call on Arthur Sinodinos proves shrewd
 
March 19, 2014

When Tony Abbott named his cabinet after last year's election, the dearth of women was striking.

But another omission raised eyebrows, too, at least in Canberra: leaving out the talented Arthur Sinodinos.

He settled for the lesser post of assistant treasurer, which seemed a modest brief for a man who had so effectively headed John Howard's prime ministerial office and lent his government much of its strategic and intellectual ballast.

Some wondered aloud if there were things we didn't know. And that prompted rumours that Abbott's chief of staff, Peta Credlin, had quietly ensured the preferment of the West Australian Mathias Cormann to the cabinet post of Finance, which had been thought most likely for Sinodinos.

But if so, why? Was it professional insecurity - the new chief of staff not wanting a predecessor so close to the throne? Or was it Credlin detecting faint signals of embarrassment down the track?

In this sense, the federal political implications of yet more sleaze coming to the surface in NSW politics may have already begun.

In the interregnum, between running Howard's office and returning to the capital as a parliamentarian, Sinodinos enjoyed a brief but extremely well-connected business career featuring, among other things, a lucrative stint as a board member and as chairman of Australian Water Holdings. It turned out to be an Obeid-linked company

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/tony-abbotts-surprise-cabinet-call-on-arthur-sinodinos-proves-shrewd-20140318-350gm.html#ixzz2wL36Cp3S
Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....