Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 992767 times)

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4485 on: May 25, 2019, 09:50:31 AM »

Franking credits will be Morrison's downfall.

53 billion reasons why it may well be  ;D  :rollin

Oh and BTW don't know how to break it to people but franking credits are a govt handout, I know those who receive dispute it saying it's not. But anytime you receive tax free $$$ form any government in your hand (bank acct) it is a handout. Just saying

What's been funny the last few days is after the election people seem to reading the fine print on a number of policies, or looking at the ones they weren't aware of.

Next April when the annual increases on our private health insurance premiums go up by another 4-6%, people better not sook, becasue you voted for it. If you read the Fin. Review on Tuesday you'll know why  :rollin







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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4486 on: May 25, 2019, 10:16:48 AM »

Franking credits will be Morrison's downfall.

53 billion reasons why it may well be  ;D  :rollin

Oh and BTW don't know how to break it to people but franking credits are a govt handout, I know those who receive dispute it saying it's not. But anytime you receive tax free $$$ form any government it is a handout. Just stating a fact.

What's been funny the last few days is after the election people seem to reading the fine print on a number of policies, or looking at the ones they weren't aware of.

Next April when the annual increases on our private health insurance premiums go up by another 4-6%, people better not sook, becasue you voted for it. If you read the Fin. Review on Tuesday you'll know why  :rollin
The ACTUAL reason why health insurance is going up has nothing to do with the current Government. The real reason it continues to go up significantly is that people between the age of 35 to 50 are dropping out of it like flies. What that leaves is the majority of people with private health cover being over 50. That means the people who have it are the most likely to use it. Imagine if the majority of people with car insurance are the ones having accidents with those unlikely to have an accident choose not to have insurance. What do you think the premiums are going to be like? And as each year passes, more of those who are not having accidents decide that these rising premiums are not worth it and then drop out as well.....

The fact is that 60% of all elective surgery occurs in the private sector. Now imagine that the public sector which obviously does only 40% and struggles with that, has to deal with an additional 60%. The system will not be able to cope at all. That is why the private sector, where money from the insured subsidize the system, alleviates the pressure on the public system.

The more we can encourage the young and well to join up a private health fund the better. Even if we can give them discounts for having a healthy lifestyle in some way, having a BMI under 28 at least, not smoking etc etc, this will help the system.

If we can do that, the real needy people that are waiting on their hip joint in the public can get it much faster....
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 10:51:11 AM by YellowandBlackBlood »
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4487 on: May 25, 2019, 11:01:28 AM »
WP seems to be wanting to  join in on the whinging brigade. Already plotting Scomos downfall
when his party just destroyed the opposition.  :lol :lol people voted get over it

People don't like facts YBB and what you have stated is spot on. I know many people who have stopped paying for it apart from my parents.

Why would a young person who earns less than the threshold keep it? Money best served on saving for their first home in my opinion

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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4488 on: May 25, 2019, 11:10:45 AM »
Self funded their own retirement with poor investments? How can it be poor if they successfully self fund their own retirement?

I know a lot of younger kids  who have bought their first house in areas like Melton. tarneit and St Andrews, endeavour hills. I also know others who can't afford it because they spend all their money on smashed avo trying to save for a house in Richmond, because they don't want to start at suburbs like I mentioned above. Then there's the lot who can't afford it due to stalling wages and circumstances beyond their control, ad for those I sympathise.

Rising property prices have gone up at this rate for 50 years, it's the lack of wage growth, cost of living which is the problem that affects affordability. Also immigration is a big factor but let's not go there hey. That's a left whingy and typical 65 conspiracy theory to blame retirees for the younger generation not being able to afford a house.

https://www.homely.com.au/news/property-news/australias-median-house-price-from-1970-2016

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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4489 on: May 25, 2019, 02:22:09 PM »
WP seems to be wanting to  join in on the whinging brigade. Already plotting Scomos downfall
when his party just destroyed the opposition.  :lol :lol people voted get over it

People don't like facts YBB and what you have stated is spot on. I know many people who have stopped paying for it apart from my parents.

Why would a young person who earns less than the threshold keep it? Money best served on saving for their first home in my opinion

Nah, Frankie, just having some fun.

But can I add people have stop paying for it because they can't afford it. Why is that you reckon?

Govt give sign off on the annual increases. So they do indeed have an impact on the cost of Private Health insurance.

It's been well documented that the Private Health funds are over the moon with the election result. As I said read the policy fine print from both parties and you will see why.

If you want me to really  push back on a number posts that I've read  on here that has made me see red I can  ;D but out respect  I have chosen not to

But I do think as people who weren't aware of the Franking credit rebate prior to this election become aware of it and it's cost, it is over time going to become an issue for this government.

Why? Because as promises get broken (And they will because ALL govt break promises) and people see cuts to other services they will question whether it is a good policy, sustainable, affordable or fair.

I say this because I am of the opinion that outside of those who receive it and those professions that needed to know about it ; very few people had any idea about it.


If we can do that, the real needy people that are waiting on their hip joint in the public can get it much faster....

Yeah we can but it isn't that simple.

How can you expect people on $50$-70k, that is low income earners to take it out when they simply can't afford it? Wages have stagnated, average increases under EBAs are 2.5% per annum. Private Health on average the last 3 years has gone up by a minimum of 4%-5%. Where are people supposed to find the extra?





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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4490 on: May 26, 2019, 04:13:13 PM »
The current franking credit system is unfair because if you pay tax then you get the dividend only (as you should). However, if you don't pay tax then you not only get the dividend but you also get freebie money courtesy of other taxpayers. So non-taxpaying shareholders receive more money than taxpaying shareholders  :thumbsdown.

The imputation system was designed originally to prevent double taxation. That is the tax paid on company profits is the company tax rate - no more, no less. So if the company pays the full rate (fully franked) then if the dividend you receive is taxed again as part of your total taxable income then you get a tax credit to pay that 'second time' tax back. Thus you receive the full dividend as you should. If you have no taxable income and thus pay no tax then there's no reason you should get the tax credit. You already have the full dividend in your pocket.

The imputation system wasn't designed to gift freebie money to a few who think they are entitled "because we worked hard and paid tax all our lives" at the expense of the many who also work(ed) hard and paid tax all their lives. You are not self-funded if you're receiving this welfare  ::). You should never have got this freebie money in the first place. Just another one of Howard's vote-buying middle-class welfare payments during the 00s credit and mining boom that the nation can no longer afford.

Being self-funded means you live off your own income AND investment assets which you sell when you need more cash. Of course, some adult kids of those receiving freebie money wouldn't like it taken away because if mummy and daddy have to eat into their investment assets then they also eat into these "kids"' inheritance  :whistle. There's always self-interest in play with these things :yep.

Anyway, as experts and others here have mentioned. The current franking credit system is unsustainable. At $6 billion p.a. and rising, this is ripping off the majority of hard working taxpayers who have to make up the ever increasing shortfall.

Even if it remained at $6 billion, it would pay IN FULL for:
- a rail link to Tullamarine in one year.
- the N/E link in 2.5 years.
- Metro rail tunnel in 2 years.
- Even the whole suburban rail loop right around Melbourne could be paid for in just 8 years.

Don't whinge about road congestion in our cities and use migrants as scapegoats when the goverment is wasting billions and billions in tax dollars pandering to a few self-entitled freeloaders (4%).

Having said this, this illustrates where Labor failed tactically and thus politically. Shorten focused his election strategy on health and education. Noble and important but it stood out compared to Dan Andrews' state campaign which focused heavily on infrastructure as well as the other two.

Federal ALP hardly mentioned infrastructure nor came up with a similar program to Andrews that had a local focus. They could have used it to attack and offset the government's scare campaign as infrastructure appeals to across the political and geographical spectrum. They could have argued you can have freebie gifts for the small few and more of the ever growing congestion under this chaotic LNP government or remove the gifts that don't affect 96% of population and choose Labor's 'big build' for real action on congestion that benefits the majority. It worked in Victoria especially against the anti-skyrail LNP trolls that would pretend to be protesting locals in our area ::). If you want to make changes and take something away even if it was wrong in the first place then you have to offer something in return that appeals even more. It's what made Hawke 'consensus' style work. The Federal ALP was poor at this at this election and it cost them. 

ps. Looking at the swings per seat, the franking credit & other tax changes Labor took to the election had little affect on the election result as affluent seats affected by these changes if Labor had won swung to Labor. It was more low income, low education and more strongly religious seats, that see "change" or "transition" of any form as a dirty word and something to fear, whose preferences swung to the LNP. When/If I get more time I'll post in depth why and it's not what either side of the politics thinks nor has addressed IMO. Hence, the primary vote of both major parties falling. 
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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4491 on: May 26, 2019, 10:51:08 PM »
The problem with your way of looking at the imputation system is that it does not take into account that the rules were laid out for all to see and people made decisions about their retirement with these rules in mind. Changing the rules now becomes a sort of retrospective "tax". If the rules were different then maybe people would have set up their self funded retirement differently. A better approach that many would have found much more palatable would have been to cap the amount that could be taken tax free. That way those that were on low income who weren't getting a lot of this as a tax credit wouldn't have been affected. Labor ignored its own constituent and went all in with this and paid the price. Another even better solution would have been to grandfather the system. Simple.

I also take offence at the way you classify some who worked hard and paid taxes as entitled because they are getting a freebie. They never broke any laws and just did what the Government allowed them to do. The Government wanted people to become less reliant on the pension because even though it's not huge money, it costs the government zillions because so many people are on it. The less people the better. And there is no more freebie than the pension itself of course. In some countries, the pension is given to all irrespective of your income. The reason being, if you have worked all your life and saved your money, why should you be given less by the government than someone who spent all their money or even didn't work that hard? As you can see there are different ways of looking at things and it's not necessarily self interest that dictates views.
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Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4492 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:07 PM »
The left: Oh no be scared - the PM's a Christian!!! He's dangerous!!!

Also the left : Stop Islamophobia!!! Bring back the ISIS kiddies!!!


 :shh

 :lol :rollin

 :clapping
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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4494 on: May 29, 2019, 06:52:02 PM »
65 is imploding :lol
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline Diocletian

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4495 on: May 29, 2019, 06:52:30 PM »
 :cheers


 :shh
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Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4496 on: May 29, 2019, 06:52:50 PM »
:shh :shh
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline Diocletian

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4497 on: May 29, 2019, 07:13:16 PM »


"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good...."

- Thomas Sowell


FJ is the only one that makes sense.

Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4498 on: May 29, 2019, 07:17:16 PM »
:shh

:lol

:cheers
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #4499 on: May 29, 2019, 07:47:25 PM »
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