Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 994330 times)

Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5625 on: January 13, 2022, 12:50:11 PM »
Jeez MT i can't believe you used peoples deaths to have giggle and point score over FJ. Referring to you calling people idiots that died of covid while being unvaccinated. That is shameful
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5626 on: January 13, 2022, 03:47:23 PM »
Jeez MT i can't believe you used peoples deaths to have giggle and point score over FJ. Referring to you calling people idiots that died of covid while being unvaccinated. That is shameful

If you can get vaccinated and significantly reduce severity of illness but choose not to and end up dying then that is idiotic.

I've also met people who literally chose prayers over conventional surgery for testicular cancer. Also died. Also idiotic.

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5627 on: January 13, 2022, 05:48:05 PM »
If you can stop smoking you should. If you did in the past, or If you can’t stop and you die of cancer your an idiot.

If you could have stopped eating and didn’t, and also did no exercise you are an idiot if you died of cardiovascular disease.

If your an alcoholic knowing it could kill you, but chose to do it anyway you are an idiot.

Does that work as well?

In my view it doesn’t as it’s their choice what they do.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 06:09:21 PM by Francois Jackson »
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Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5628 on: January 13, 2022, 11:02:13 PM »
No, you've just chosen 3 lifestyle items which are literally all addictive.

Is choosing not to be vaccinated an addictive behaviour? No.

Maybe something like: choosing to speed in your car repeatedly without a seatbelt on, then dying from a resulting high speed collision one day, makes you an idiot.
That works well...

Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5629 on: January 13, 2022, 11:20:30 PM »
Making light or point scoring or insulting the dead makes you a....?
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5630 on: January 14, 2022, 04:40:48 AM »
No, you've just chosen 3 lifestyle items which are literally all addictive.

Is choosing not to be vaccinated an addictive behaviour? No.

Maybe something like: choosing to speed in your car repeatedly without a seatbelt on, then dying from a resulting high speed collision one day, makes you an idiot.
That works well...

Wrong. Know plenty of people who smoked for fun who paid the price.

It’s not an addiction for some. It’s not an addiction if your obese yet can’t walk down the street. The result is cardiovascular disease. That is a choice.

You have no idea what people’s choices for doing what they do. For them it is a lifestyle choice. Maybe their son had a reaction or that myarchidis or whatever that word is, or perhaps they are fit healthy and don’t think they need it. Who gives a stuff?
 Few isolated examples doesn’t mean you or I have all the answers so play on.

Making light or point scoring or insulting the dead makes you a....?

An idiot?


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Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5631 on: January 14, 2022, 10:28:06 AM »
You're reaching FJ.

I worked in bariatrics for 7+ years and was a specialist there. Eating is addictive and obesity for a lot of people is closely tied to mental illness.

Far from a simple 'choice'. As is smoking - the nicotine is literally added to tobacco to make it addictive. Your position is about as simple, unempathetic and heartless as telling any version addict to make better decisions and just quit like that *snap*.

It's a poor comparison to vaccination, however I have never said that unvaccinated people aren't motivated by strong emotions (fear of blood clots due to astra zeneca for example, despite the risk being 1:1,870,000) or beliefs.

Offline Assange Tiger 😎

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5632 on: January 14, 2022, 12:05:44 PM »
Bring back the actual doctor. He didn't pretend to be an expert on every topic in regards to health.

Does being vaccinated, getting covid but being a fat sack of poo and dying make you an idiot?
I work in Africa and they were taking the pee out of me for saving Africa.......
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Offline Andyy

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5633 on: January 14, 2022, 01:07:12 PM »
Bring back the actual doctor. He didn't pretend to be an expert on every topic in regards to health.

Does being vaccinated, getting covid but being a fat sack of poo and dying make you an idiot?

No need to be sarcastic. The person you refer to is an anesthesiologist.

I've not said I'm an expert on anything, ever, only that I've worked in a specialist role. Subsequently I have extensive experience in general abdominal, bariatric, upper GI, colorectal, urological and thoracic surgery.

I now work in general medicine, geriatrics and am in an outbreak management taskforce for nursing homes.

Quote that if you think I'm pretending in future.

As for your last lame question - no. Being vaccinated is a good idea, especially if you are overweight as we are seeing significant illness in obese people with COVID.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5634 on: January 21, 2022, 04:19:42 PM »
Sorry for the delay Frankie. Been a busy week and I didn't just want to give you a flippant two-line reply.

MT I feel when it suits it’s about Australia and when it doesn’t it’s all about the world. You put up costs of rats and included countries that have far lower wages than us. Lack of rapids is a world wide thing which probably doesn’t suit your position, but it’s a fact. Cost of rapids may be more expensive here but we also get paid a lot of more than other counties, some of which you have mentioned.
The UK had a bit of a shortage last week but released a "flood" (UK doctor's words) of RATs this week. They haven't had the long-term RAT shortages and empty shelves of basic items like us either. In the USA, you can order 4 free RATs from https://www.covidtests.gov/ that take a week or two to arrive. In Holland, they have vending machines that sell RATs.

Just on the wages comment, our cost of living is higher here too though. Essential workers are also more likely to be casuals not on a high wage. Add to that our population is much smaller than most of those other countries. We also have our own manufacturers who produce RATs but these RATs are sold overseas rather to us Aussies because they weren't and still haven't been given approval here. We have to wait until the State governments do Morrison's job for him and their orders arrive from overseas.

Morrison and the Feds publicly around August last year spoke about the need for RATs as part of eventually opening up and "living with covid". But as usual it was just another announcement that didn't turn into reality and has lead to another crisis. Morrison in his media conference the other day tried to blame the lack of ordering of RATs last year on the priority to chase after Pfizer during the delta wave. However, that was his own fault too because he didn't order and rollout the vaccine in the first half of last year. Morrison just compounds his mistakes through his own incompetence. IMV, the reason why he always stuffs up all the time was in that recent Age interview when he stated he governs "for today". There's no forward planning because he just doesn't believe in it and subsequently he fails as a result.

Your stats on the unvaxed clogging the system now well maybe but how can that be true if 95% of the pop has been vaxed and we are getting 30,000 cases a day. 52% of hospital admissions weren’t double dosed so that means 48% were what exactly??? As for ICU beds why should anyone care when Andrews didnt built the extra beds he said he would instead of lying about it. Again probably doesn’t suit your position. Isolation is a complete waste of time as is case counting. Protect the elderly, wear a mask indoors, and for those that are scared cover yourself in plastic and stay home if you don’t want to catch covid, and let the thing rip through to give us immunity. I suspect that is exactly what that’s really doing and this will be over very soon.

Can you digest these numbers in the link for me please especially the covid monitor ones. Seems like the majority of hospital admissions are overwhelmingly double doses and icu beds tracking pretty even. What a surprise.

https://aci.health.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/critical-intelligence-unit
The best way to answer this is via this diagram:


The unvaxxed as a proportion of their now small population are signficantly over-represented in ICUs. So in NSW we've got just 5% of the population who are unvaxxed contributing to at least half the ICU admissions. That's a factor of 10x! Dr Chant mentioned today that 28 of the 46 deaths were under 65. Of those half were unvaxxed and of the 4 that didn't have any underlying health problems 3 were unvaxxed. While the covid vaccine isn't a cure (its efficacy isn't 100%), the evidence is overwhelming that they work.

Not sure why mention '4000 ICU beds' when we currently have 121 covid patients in ICU. This issue right now isn't capacity but lack of available hospital staff due to covid furloughing hence the health system's self-imposed "code brown". It would be a waste of resources and hospital staff having so many ICU beds standing idle when they aren't needed and hospital staff are at a premium at the moment with 4000 off work either with covid or as a close contact.

Letting it rip without any control measures would bring about even more chaos and shortages. We'd have even more people sick at once and furloughed. The choice over opening up wasn't binary between going back into lockdowns or just letting it rip. Managing this reopening up properly was what was required. That hasn't happened given the lack of RATs.

As for deliberately giving yourself covid, that equals needlessly risking your health especially if you're unvaxxed.
Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996
Getting vaccinated plus the booster is the optimal and safest strategy against covid.

There's no evidence either to support that people gain long-term immunity from catching the coronavirus. Lucky if it gives you 3 months worth of anti-bodies. If someone caught the alpha or delta variant then it doesn't protect them against omicron. Who knows if there will be another mutation and variant going forward either. However, there are studies reflecting the effectiveness of the booster shot:



Bottom line is I couldn’t care less if someone who is vaxed or unvaxed is using the hospital system, just like I don’t care if someone was smoking for 40 years who is in there fighting cancer.
I agree with you as far as treating everyone without bias who presents to hospital. However, that doesn't mean we don't take strong action to try and lower disease and presentations to our hospitals. Using the smoking example, smokers who want to light up are excluded from most public spaces these days as they pose a health threat not only to themselves but to others via secondhand smoke. If you want to work, eat, go to the footy, etc ... then you can't smoke.

Regarding Novak, Scomo has completely butchered it up to the point it has the whole world laughing at our state. To save face and his career has no choice but to boot him out today. Border protection is his one wood and to date he has stuffed up. To get that hand back Joker is gone.
Yep, the correct decision was made in the end. Still odd though they they went down the 'Novak would encourage anti-vaxxers' route to deport him when they could have got him simply got him on not filling out his documentation correctly and honestly. I bet the average punter who arrives at our airports and is caught with false info on their documents would be straight on the next plane home. It also shows Morrison and the Feds are hypocrites who have different rules for their own MPs like Christensen and co. who are blatant vocal anti-vaxxers.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5635 on: January 21, 2022, 04:46:04 PM »
Jeez MT i can't believe you used peoples deaths to have giggle and point score over FJ. Referring to you calling people idiots that died of covid while being unvaccinated. That is shameful
I have more than sympathy for the genuine poor and/or formally uneducated who die from preventable diseases due to a lack of vaccine(s). That is a tragedy. We are fortunate to live in a first world country where vaccines are readily available which have eliminated or at least dramatically reduced formerly destructive and fatal diseases in our society.

However, I have no sympathy whatsoever for politically and religiously motivated anti-vaxxers who deliberately and repeatedly peddle anti-science lies, bogus conspiracy theories and other debunked crap such as "vaccines cause autism"  :thumbsdown. There was an incident in Samoa in 2019 where anti-vaxxers spread lies about the measles vaccine amongst the population. Vaccination levels dropped and there was a significant measles outbreak. 65 died as a result, most of whom were kids under the age of 5  :(. Sorry but if the karma bus comes along and gets these moronic evil bastard pollies, shockjocks and attention seeking C-grade celebs for their own lies and stupidity then good riddance! The latest nominees for the Darwin awards  :shh
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5636 on: January 22, 2022, 02:54:56 PM »
The best way to answer this is via this diagram:


The unvaxxed as a proportion of their now small population are signficantly over-represented in ICUs. So in NSW we've got just 5% of the population who are unvaxxed contributing to at least half the ICU admissions. That's a factor of 10x! Dr Chant mentioned today that 28 of the 46 deaths were under 65. Of those half were unvaxxed and of the 4 that didn't have any underlying health problems 3 were unvaxxed. While the covid vaccine isn't a cure (its efficacy isn't 100%), the evidence is overwhelming that they work.
Just to add to this, here's more data from NSW.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/2022/jan/21/australia-has-had-its-deadliest-day-yet-covid-omicron-heres-what-we-know-about-who-is-dying
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5637 on: January 22, 2022, 10:31:17 PM »
Does Mark McGowan = WAT

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5638 on: January 31, 2022, 08:56:06 AM »



https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/newspoll-approval-for-scott-morrison-and-coalition-drops-as-election-looms/news-story/4ead554a31e394911b58f5ad400ab6b6


The poll produced a two-party-preferred lead for Labor of 56-44 after a two point drop in support for minor parties.

The numbers suggest Labor would win with a majority if a general election was held now, with the potential loss of up to 25 seats for the Coalition.

Treasurer Josh Frydenberg was dismissive of the result on Monday morning, claiming the only poll “that counts in politics” is on election day.
Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #5639 on: January 31, 2022, 01:37:10 PM »
Alby you dirty rotten scoundrel

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/albanese-claimed-travel-allowance-to-stay-in-own-apartment/ar-AATi0jB?ocid=entnewsntp

A report by News.com.au’s Samantha Maiden found that Albanese charged taxpayers $17k in travel allowance to stay in his own Canberra flat last year.


“Maiden reports that Albanese has no mortgage on his Canberra apartment and he stayed there for 59 nights during Sydney's marathon lockdown,” Ms Markson said.

“By basing himself in Canberra, not only did Albanese skip the brutal lockdown but he made money from it as well.

“And it had a political benefit, too - he was then able to campaign in Queensland and Tasmania while the Prime Minister was mostly locked down in Sydney and unable to travel.

“In total, Albanese claimed a travel allowance for 74 nights even though Parliament was only sitting for 19 days during that period.