Official Team for Round 17

[Stripes]

So which tall forward should come out instead of Post?  - Grittiths, Vickery, Riewoldt? Or are you thinking of a tall back he should replace? He has been disappointing at each end this season and the only player I would consider dropping for him would be Thursfield but Post is no tall shutdown defender by any stretch. Playing Post in the season side for experience alone is a luxury at present until he can earn his spot like people are calling for.

Similarly, as an inside ball winner who would Tuck replace  - Foley, Cotchin or Martin? Should be play him down back as midsized backman replacing one of Deledio, Newman, Houli, Grigg, Conca, Batchelor or Helbig? Perhaps he could take the offensive place of King, Nahas or White.

I just believe before we start critise the coaches for selection we need to look beyond individual form and look at the bigger picture - structure, roles, game plan, development. Post potentially has a role to play if he can push one of the taller players out but Tuck hasn't the desposal or decision-making skills to warrant selction unless it is through necessity (injury, suspension etc).

[Jackstar is back again]

hey hold on a tick.
Big WHACK WHACK to Brendan Lade. who had Gus looking at the opposition ruckman at centre bounces for the first 6 rounds, not Guss fault, thats what he was told to do.
Rebounding out of D50 has changed over the past 6 weeks as well if you all havent noticed, was long kicking in first part of you and kicking over zones, now we are short kicking and causing turnovers as opposition zones are well structured.
Look at the mistakes in D50 over the past 6 week, its been cruel to watch actually.
The amount of turnovers in D50 has been atonishing

[the claw]

Well it is looking like 2006 all over isn't it. Big defeats.poor efforts etc

Except in 2006 the average playing age of the list was 30 and now its 22 years. You are comparing apples with oranges. Lets look at now compared to Round 1, 2010. We have come a long way from last year, and have been a lot better to watch then what a lot of people predicted at the start of the season. Have faith, if you can, it will pay off in the end.  

this is not true the average age of the list in 06 as of 30 march was 22yrs and 313dys, the average age of the list this yr as of 24 march was 22ys and 141 days.

in 2010 we lost 9 in a row to start the season. we then won 5 of the next 6 against very ordinary sides or injury depleted sides. we then proceeded against better sides to lose 6 of the last 7 only beating a very ordinary adelaide in rnd 18. in those last 7 games we were beaten by 82 coll, 50 nm,melb 29, 89 carlton, 21 stk, and pa 10,sheesh sounds familiar oh yeah this yr.the only differenc being we won a few meaningless ones early this yr that raised feral hopes everywhere.
just how far have we come when comparing results not far at all imo.i dont expect dramatic improvement until we get enough decent cattle into our system and the shedload of list cloggers that remain are gone.

[gerkin greg]

hey hold on a tick.
Big WHACK WHACK to Brendan Lade.

He's also been in charge of stoppages this year and we have gone backwards at a rate of knots

[Stripes]

claw - we don't need to turn over 20+ players. That would be a disaster. Most of the side is young and developing and will take time. They all have a far greater upside to their games than Tuck who is nearing the end of his career. We do need more inside midfielders winning the ball out for us but we have them their but they just need time to gain the size to compete and a ruck to deliever the ball down to them. Very hard for a young midfield group (any midfield group in fact!) to win the ball if it is being tap directly to their opposition nine times out of ten.

You stated that our improvement has been less than other teams - I disagree. We have one of the youngest lists in the competition and with little to no experienced players of note. Every other young team, including Gold Coast, has a handful of leaders/experienced players that can lift, protect and feed the young players around them. We look to our captain and 24 year olds or younger to fill this same role. Considering where we begain at the beginning of last year our growth has been remarkable with improvement almost universal across the side.

The potential upside of our team is enormous with other teams including Melbourne, North and West Coast possessing an experienced core of midfielders/ruck that take the pressure of their younger midfielders and key position players. Our team can begun to form an excellent structure purely on the base of inexperienced talent.

Martin, Cotchin and Conca will form a wonderul midfield unit in the future but none are older that 20. Through Vickery into that center and you can see why we are struggling with clearances presently but the upside will be enormous. Helbig may join the group and Foley may remain a 2nd tier help. Name another team that has got some much from a midfield bereft of experience this year?

It's the same story at either end with our forwardline now a mix of tall talent - Jack, Vickery, Griffiths and our backline slightly behind with Rance, Grimes and Astbury. Even our older backmen of McGuane and Thursfield would be considered youn in any other team.

It's easy to look for the immediate wins but we need to keep finding players to fit our structure and then giving them the tile to learn how to play the role and work together. Tuck and Post presently don't fit that role.

[gerkin greg]

claw - we don't need to turn over 20+ players.

we need to turn over AT LEAST half that, minimum.

[the claw]

claw - we don't need to turn over 20+ players. That would be a disaster. Most of the side is young and developing and will take time. They all have a far greater upside to their games than Tuck who is nearing the end of his career. We do need more inside midfielders winning the ball out for us but we have them their but they just need time to gain the size to compete and a ruck to deliever the ball down to them. Very hard for a young midfield group (any midfield group in fact!) to win the ball if it is being tap directly to their opposition nine times out of ten.

You stated that our improvement has been less than other teams - I disagree. We have one of the youngest lists in the competition and with little to no experienced players of note. Every other young team, including Gold Coast, has a handful of leaders/experienced players that can lift, protect and feed the young players around them. We look to our captain and 24 year olds or younger to fill this same role. Considering where we begain at the beginning of last year our growth has been remarkable with improvement almost universal across the side.

The potential upside of our team is enormous with other teams including Melbourne, North and West Coast possessing an experienced core of midfielders/ruck that take the pressure of their younger midfielders and key position players. Our team can begun to form an excellent structure purely on the base of inexperienced talent.

Martin, Cotchin and Conca will form a wonderul midfield unit in the future but none are older that 20. Through Vickery into that center and you can see why we are struggling with clearances presently but the upside will be enormous. Helbig may join the group and Foley may remain a 2nd tier help. Name another team that has got some much from a midfield bereft of experience this year?

It's the same story at either end with our forwardline now a mix of tall talent - Jack, Vickery, Griffiths and our backline slightly behind with Rance, Grimes and Astbury. Even our older backmen of McGuane and Thursfield would be considered youn in any other team.

It's easy to look for the immediate wins but we need to keep finding players to fit our structure and then giving them the tile to learn how to play the role and work together. Tuck and Post presently don't fit that role.

will only do a couple of points as i have to get out the door. i totally disagree we have 20 plus very ordinary players and they have to go over the next 2 or 3 seasons. a dud is a dud is a dud no matter how you wrap it up.

players who i think shane tuck offers more than, and i will only mention those who have been in the system for awhile or are 22 plus.. connors, edwards, farmer,grigg,hislop, houli, jackson,king, morton, nahas, nason, webberley and white.all smalls or mediums all with deficiencies and all at an age where they really should have clicked by now and become good decent consistent players.
 i would take tuck  any day over anyone of them. of course i would lump tuck in there with them but hes the best of a poor lot. now if shane tuck is no good what does it say for the rest of them.

make no mistake if we are serious about one day playing in a gf people had damn well better lower their expectations a bit and come to terms with just how much we have to do i for the life of me cant see us playing in a gf for at least 6 yrs and that is if we get most things right. getting things right is not hanging onto hacks.

[eliminator]

The last two games for Coburg Morton played well not just one game. Furthermore against Essendon our small forwards did not make an impact. We need an x factor in the forward line apart from Jack I don't see the problem in bringing in Morton. Bringing in Browne after one of the worst rucking displays against Carlton I have ever seen is not in the interests of the club. We need to see if Post can make it he should have a proper run in the seniors. A major deficiency in our side this year has been the ability to win the clearances. Tuck's inclusion would significantly improve us in that regard. Tuck's inclusion would not harm Cotchin's progress in the slightest it would relieve the significant burden which is being placed on Cotchin at clearances. Jackson regularly turns the ball over and is still in the side and yet he wins less of the contested football than tuck. If we had stacks of midfielders who could win the hard ball I could see the point in leaving out Tuck but we don't.

[Tigermonk]

The selectors are sniffing the same powder as a few players 

[Ox]

i disagree with the treatment of Tuck and Gus.

Club looks pathetic,especially going in last week without a 2nd ruckman last week over naming Gus.

[Stripes]

i totally disagree we have 20 plus very ordinary players and they have to go over the next 2 or 3 seasons. a dud is a dud is a dud no matter how you wrap it up.

This year is certainly not the year to turn over a significant amount of players. The draft is said to be even shallower than last year with clubs looking heavily at the VFL, WAFL etc to even find players of any worth with their 3rd and beyond picks. Expect trading between clubs to be at all time high this year.

If you are referring to over 3+ years, then a 20+ player turn over is a possibility but most of our list to too young to think about putting a red line through just yet.

players who i think shane tuck offers more than, and i will only mention those who have been in the system for awhile or are 22 plus.. connors, edwards, farmer,grigg,hislop, houli, jackson,king, morton, nahas, nason, webberley and white.all smalls or mediums all with deficiencies and all at an age where they really should have clicked by now and become good decent consistent players.
 i would take tuck  any day over anyone of them. of course i would lump tuck in there with them but hes the best of a poor lot. now if shane tuck is no good what does it say for the rest of them.

Tuck is an in and under type. The players you listed player are not. They have completely different roles to what Tuck does. The players Tuck would need to replace would be Martin, Cotchin or Foley. This are our inside midfielders with Jackson our tagger. If he was used as a rotation player in the forwardline or backline he would be more of a hinderance than a help. I think it's time to take off the Rose Coloured Glasses with Tuck. He is not a verstile player - he was tried down back but isn't a tall stopper or a players that provides run and carry.

I love Tuck's 'see ball, get ball' toughness but we need more than that from our players now.

[Stripes]

The last two games for Coburg Morton played well not just one game. Furthermore against Essendon our small forwards did not make an impact. We need an x factor in the forward line apart from Jack I don't see the problem in bringing in Morton. Bringing in Browne after one of the worst rucking displays against Carlton I have ever seen is not in the interests of the club. We need to see if Post can make it he should have a proper run in the seniors. A major deficiency in our side this year has been the ability to win the clearances. Tuck's inclusion would significantly improve us in that regard. Tuck's inclusion would not harm Cotchin's progress in the slightest it would relieve the significant burden which is being placed on Cotchin at clearances. Jackson regularly turns the ball over and is still in the side and yet he wins less of the contested football than tuck. If we had stacks of midfielders who could win the hard ball I could see the point in leaving out Tuck but we don't.

If Morton has played more than one good game then I apologise. I hadn't heard any positives about his performance other than last week but he still needs to take the place of another player in the team who plays a similar role - ie King, Nahas etc I'm not sure if his defensive skills would enable this atm.

Browne's inclusion is a necessity and his choice over Gus the lesser of two evils. We need a ruck to avoid the same thing happening too us as it did last week when Vickery became exhausted. Post offered little as a support ruckman. I would imagine Vickery may ruck more this week than usual when Browne/Gus is playing. The reason we have struggled to win clearances is more to do with our rucks than our midfielders and we saw what happened to our clearances against Essendon when Vickery began to struggle.

Tuck's inclusion would not hurt Cotchin's progress...unless it was he who had to make way for him. It may hurt the stability of the midfield, the understand and familarity of each others play and game plan but most of all it would hurt one of the young inside midfielders because they would have to be excluded for him to play. Tuck's footskills are dubious at best and terrible/game changing at worst. The old 'slap it on the boot' style Tucky loves doesn't cut it any more as it comes back the other way just as fast. He hasn't the poise or skills to execute pin point passes under pressure.

This year is about finding midfielders, in fact its about finding players and all that Tuck would do is delay this...

[big tone]

i totally disagree we have 20 plus very ordinary players and they have to go over the next 2 or 3 seasons. a dud is a dud is a dud no matter how you wrap it up.

This year is certainly not the year to turn over a significant amount of players. The draft is said to be even shallower than last year with clubs looking heavily at the VFL, WAFL etc to even find players of any worth with their 3rd and beyond picks. Expect trading between clubs to be at all time high this year.

If you are referring to over 3+ years, then a 20+ player turn over is a possibility but most of our list to too young to think about putting a red line through just yet.

players who i think shane tuck offers more than, and i will only mention those who have been in the system for awhile or are 22 plus.. connors, edwards, farmer,grigg,hislop, houli, jackson,king, morton, nahas, nason, webberley and white.all smalls or mediums all with deficiencies and all at an age where they really should have clicked by now and become good decent consistent players.
 i would take tuck  any day over anyone of them. of course i would lump tuck in there with them but hes the best of a poor lot. now if shane tuck is no good what does it say for the rest of them.

Tuck is an in and under type. The players you listed player are not. They have completely different roles to what Tuck does. The players Tuck would need to replace would be Martin, Cotchin or Foley. This are our inside midfielders with Jackson our tagger. If he was used as a rotation player in the forwardline or backline he would be more of a hinderance than a help. I think it's time to take off the Rose Coloured Glasses with Tuck. He is not a verstile player - he was tried down back but isn't a tall stopper or a players that provides run and carry.

I love Tuck's 'see ball, get ball' toughness but we need more than that from our players now.

Jackson a tagger, hasen't stopped anyone for a long time Stripes. Tuck would do Jacksons roll plus some....