Rookie pick #60: Gibson Turner

[WA Tiger]

Fair dinkum, before people group all the aboriginals together perhaps you should read Owls post.

Talking about bringing down an elder for troy. Hmm. that is eaxactly what owl was talking about. Troy Taylor did not grow up on in an aboriginal community. He grew up in darwin, his mother being a school teacher. He does not have any cultural disadvantage or any crap that indigenous people from remote communities have. He is just like any other person who does not make the most of his opportunities, black or white. He had a strong support network including mentoring from his uncle, Ernie Dingo and his sister moved down to Melborne to help him out. He simply isn't cut of the right cloth to become an elete sportsman.

The only thing these blokes mentioned have in common is they are not white. They are all individuals from different backgrounds and did not make the grade for differing reasons.

how about judging people on what they do rather that pre judging based on the color of their skin?

My posts are player management based......working in the Aboriginal communities for so long I do understand their culture, I have also had professional training in cultural awareness by senior Aboriginals with the WA community.

It does not matter if an Aboriginal is raised from birth by a white person, they will always have their heratige and while being proud of that as they should many will return in someway back to their heratige for guidence and support. Troy may of needed that more than others and I am unsure how much the club supported him there, not just by letting him go home. I had/have two cousins that I grew up with, both full blooded Aboriginals (adopted) from local blood groups in WA. By the age of 16 years old they had tracked down their bloodlines and returned to their comminites, this is after being brought up by the best parents you could meet. The parents understood fully and a crediit to them but there is an example of cultural difference. Whether you want to hear it or not cultures are different and some people within their cultures require and to some degree expect their needs to be met and managed accordingly.

I have all the faith in the world in this kid as I did with Roberts, Gilligan, Taylor etc.... I want to see him star. I dont care if he is red, green, pink, blue etc.....Just as long as the CLUB supports his needs as at some point in time due to his culture he may need the extra support....and the club must manage that better than they have done IMO...thats all I am saying.

[Smokey]

I don't get looking at a person and seeing a colour.

[10 FLAGS]

Fair dinkum, before people group all the aboriginals together perhaps you should read Owls post.

Talking about bringing down an elder for troy. Hmm. that is eaxactly what owl was talking about. Troy Taylor did not grow up on in an aboriginal community. He grew up in darwin, his mother being a school teacher. He does not have any cultural disadvantage or any crap that indigenous people from remote communities have. He is just like any other person who does not make the most of his opportunities, black or white. He had a strong support network including mentoring from his uncle, Ernie Dingo and his sister moved down to Melborne to help him out. He simply isn't cut of the right cloth to become an elete sportsman.

The only thing these blokes mentioned have in common is they are not white. They are all individuals from different backgrounds and did not make the grade for differing reasons.

how about judging people on what they do rather that pre judging based on the color of their skin?

My posts are player management based......working in the Aboriginal communities for so long I do understand their culture, I have also had professional training in cultural awareness by senior Aboriginals with the WA community.

It does not matter if an Aboriginal is raised from birth by a white person, they will always have their heratige and while being proud of that as they should many will return in someway back to their heratige for guidence and support. Troy may of needed that more than others and I am unsure how much the club supported him there, not just by letting him go home. I had/have two cousins that I grew up with, both full blooded Aboriginals (adopted) from local blood groups in WA. By the age of 16 years old they had tracked down their bloodlines and returned to their comminites, this is after being brought up by the best parents you could meet. The parents understood fully and a crediit to them but there is an example of cultural difference. Whether you want to hear it or not cultures are different and some people within their cultures require and to some degree expect their needs to be met and managed accordingly.

I have all the faith in the world in this kid as I did with Roberts, Gilligan, Taylor etc.... I want to see him star. I dont care if he is red, green, pink, blue etc.....Just as long as the CLUB supports his needs as at some point in time due to his culture he may need the extra support....and the club must manage that better than they have done IMO...thats all I am saying.

How do people see the success of people like Maurice Rioli, Michael Long, Gavin Wanganeen? How come these players and others could handle it and others seem to want to find any excuse under the sun?

[WA Tiger]

I don't get looking at a person and seeing a colour.

No! But do you see a culture that should be understood and respected and managed accordingly where applicable........BTW not that you have no respect smokey so don't take what I said out of context.



Edited to correct quote

[WA Tiger]

Fair dinkum, before people group all the aboriginals together perhaps you should read Owls post.

Talking about bringing down an elder for troy. Hmm. that is eaxactly what owl was talking about. Troy Taylor did not grow up on in an aboriginal community. He grew up in darwin, his mother being a school teacher. He does not have any cultural disadvantage or any crap that indigenous people from remote communities have. He is just like any other person who does not make the most of his opportunities, black or white. He had a strong support network including mentoring from his uncle, Ernie Dingo and his sister moved down to Melborne to help him out. He simply isn't cut of the right cloth to become an elete sportsman.

The only thing these blokes mentioned have in common is they are not white. They are all individuals from different backgrounds and did not make the grade for differing reasons.

how about judging people on what they do rather that pre judging based on the color of their skin?

My posts are player management based......working in the Aboriginal communities for so long I do understand their culture, I have also had professional training in cultural awareness by senior Aboriginals with the WA community.

It does not matter if an Aboriginal is raised from birth by a white person, they will always have their heratige and while being proud of that as they should many will return in someway back to their heratige for guidence and support. Troy may of needed that more than others and I am unsure how much the club supported him there, not just by letting him go home. I had/have two cousins that I grew up with, both full blooded Aboriginals (adopted) from local blood groups in WA. By the age of 16 years old they had tracked down their bloodlines and returned to their comminites, this is after being brought up by the best parents you could meet. The parents understood fully and a crediit to them but there is an example of cultural difference. Whether you want to hear it or not cultures are different and some people within their cultures require and to some degree expect their needs to be met and managed accordingly.

I have all the faith in the world in this kid as I did with Roberts, Gilligan, Taylor etc.... I want to see him star. I dont care if he is red, green, pink, blue etc.....Just as long as the CLUB supports his needs as at some point in time due to his culture he may need the extra support....and the club must manage that better than they have done IMO...thats all I am saying.

How do people see the success of people like Maurice Rioli, Michael Long, Gavin Wanganeen? How come these players and others could handle it and others seem to want to find any excuse under the sun?

Completely different era and not even remotely compatable to the pressure of life as a footballer now IMO.

[Smokey]

I don't get looking at a person and seeing a colour.

No! But do you see a culture that should be understood and respected and managed accordingly where applicable........BTW not that you have no respect smokey so don't take what I said out of context.

I think you have done that WAT, not me.  I wasn't saying that you personally saw a colour at all, the opposite in fact because I know from many previous posts how you feel on this subject.  By "seeing a colour" I mean some people don't treat others as individual people but as a race and because of that they don't apply the same standards to things as they do for others.  Does that make sense?  I abhor those who, in all seriousness, make any type of judgement on another person because of their ethnic origins.  I agree with you that a culture should be understood, respected and managed accordingly but that should apply to all cultures, my own white Anglo-Saxon included.  The way the club has embraced Bachar Houli and his culture is a good example of how every single player should expect to be treated by the club, and indeed, we should all have that expectation in life.  Sorry if this reply is a bit rambling but its a favourite soapbox item of mine - I hate racism in any form.   

[bojangles17]

Fair dinkum, before people group all the aboriginals together perhaps you should read Owls post.

Talking about bringing down an elder for troy. Hmm. that is eaxactly what owl was talking about. Troy Taylor did not grow up on in an aboriginal community. He grew up in darwin, his mother being a school teacher. He does not have any cultural disadvantage or any crap that indigenous people from remote communities have. He is just like any other person who does not make the most of his opportunities, black or white. He had a strong support network including mentoring from his uncle, Ernie Dingo and his sister moved down to Melborne to help him out. He simply isn't cut of the right cloth to become an elete sportsman.

The only thing these blokes mentioned have in common is they are not white. They are all individuals from different backgrounds and did not make the grade for differing reasons.

how about judging people on what they do rather that pre judging based on the color of their skin?

My posts are player management based......working in the Aboriginal communities for so long I do understand their culture, I have also had professional training in cultural awareness by senior Aboriginals with the WA community.

It does not matter if an Aboriginal is raised from birth by a white person, they will always have their heratige and while being proud of that as they should many will return in someway back to their heratige for guidence and support. Troy may of needed that more than others and I am unsure how much the club supported him there, not just by letting him go home. I had/have two cousins that I grew up with, both full blooded Aboriginals (adopted) from local blood groups in WA. By the age of 16 years old they had tracked down their bloodlines and returned to their comminites, this is after being brought up by the best parents you could meet. The parents understood fully and a crediit to them but there is an example of cultural difference. Whether you want to hear it or not cultures are different and some people within their cultures require and to some degree expect their needs to be met and managed accordingly.

I have all the faith in the world in this kid as I did with Roberts, Gilligan, Taylor etc.... I want to see him star. I dont care if he is red, green, pink, blue etc.....Just as long as the CLUB supports his needs as at some point in time due to his culture he may need the extra support....and the club must manage that better than they have done IMO...thats all I am saying.

How do people see the success of people like Maurice Rioli, Michael Long, Gavin Wanganeen? How come these players and others could handle it and others seem to want to find any excuse under the sun?

its a good question and simply answered, AFL football is now far more professional than what it was in the 80/90s combine that with the transparency of the game in 2011 and clubs just cant get away with sweeping "things" under the carpet like they used to. Now im not saying any of these guys wouldnt have made it today, simply the bar has been raised and more are failing to make it

[WilliamPowell]

Because we picked the wrong kids. Troy Taylor would have been the same wherever he went...except Carlton probably would have got him the house he was looking for

Exactly!!  Its been more of a recruiting problem than a player management one.

I actually think it's been both

Yes Taylor was a wasted pick because here was a kid with a shocking attitude who it seems clearly believed he didn't need to work hard and that being an AFL footballer was a "right" rather than an opportunity where your personal success is determined by how hard you are prepared to work

Then I see someone like Relton Roberts who had spent the majority of his life living in an outback community where family is the absolute most important thing, where English was his second language etc and then he is suddenly in Melb and outside his first few months here he was expected to simply settle into life here without his family (remember he had a young son & wife that did not come to Melb with him). Sorry but it isn't that simply and IMHO that's where the club has got it wrong in the past. There are cultural difference that need to be managed.

Look at Liam Jurrah and  Melb - they worked very hard in trying to make the transition as easy as possible. Melb have said one of the the first things they needed to do was understand the culture he had come. I wonder if the RFC have really understood what that means   

Back to Roberts granted he had played footy in Darwin but I challenge anyone to convince me that there isn't a massive difference between living on Darwin and living in Melb.

Call me naive or even stupid but I went to Darwin for the first time this year and you want to know what was the first thing I noticed? The number of indigenous people compared to down here in Melb

I actually think that thanks to the Indigenous Institute the Club now has a far better understanding of how to manage this than they have in the past. 

Now before everyone starts jumping up and down about using Relton roberts as example I would argue the same thing happened with Alroy Gilligan

As I said IMHO opinion it's been both - poor recruiting decisions (Taylor) and poor management (Roberts) - club needs to be able to get the balance right we haven't in the past we need to in the future 

[10 FLAGS]

If Gibson does well then the policy of having some of these kids do a couple of years at a boarding school ie. in Melbourne like Rioli or Adelaide like Turner will really take off. I hope Gibson does well and I have high hopes that even though he was pick 60 in the rookie draft that he can become a good player.

[WilliamPowell]

If Gibson does well then the policy of having some of these kids do a couple of years at a boarding school ie. in Melbourne like Rioli or Adelaide like Turner will really take off. I hope Gibson does well and I have high hopes that even though he was pick 60 in the rookie draft that he can become a good player.

I actually agree with your orginal sentiments from early in this thread Flagman and that is I think Gibson is a good selection.

Saw him briefly on Saturday during my wasted visit to the Tiger Store - good size height wise needs to as the muscle but most mid size players do when they are drafted

[Penelope]

Just on Relton WP..

He had spent time in county vic playing footy. not quite the same as Melbourne, but probably seen a stepping stone from the clubs point of view.

I'm pretty sure his wife and kid did come down and it was her that couldnt handle the transition and when she went home with the kid, that was basically all she wrote.

I agree with the flagman. If you think about it makes sense to bring people from remote communities down early so they can make the transition without the pressure of the AFL environment. Being able to put kids from remote communities on scholarships or such would be a good idea.

In saying that there are drawbacks, such as many not being up to the required level of education. I think the article about gibson said that 3 kids tested from his community were at an education level that allowed them to attend the boarding school.

I don't think many people appreciate what this says about those individuals and their ability to overcome adversity.

[WilliamPowell]

I'm pretty sure his wife and kid did come down and it was her that couldnt handle the transition and when she went home with the kid, that was basically all she wrote.

Not exactly how it happened al.... from what i"ve been told by someone who knows it was alot more complicated than that but it really doens't matter now

I don't think many people appreciate what this says about those individuals and their ability to overcome adversity.

that's true but I still think everyone case is different

And I still believe the Club hasnt managed certain cases very well indeed

[mightytiges]

Turner is pick 60 in the rookie draft. Wherever he came from or whatever his background, the odds of him making it are slim as they are for all rookies. Wasn't there an article last week in the papers stating only a small proportion (20%?) of rookies play an AFL game or so many? The strike rate ain't good despite all the stats and analysis club recruiting departments do these days.

On Turner himself he appears to have the knack of knowing where the goals are but the question marks for me at AFL level are his size (177cm, 69kg) and whether he has the tank to push into the midfield even for just spells. Specialised forward pockets are a dying breed in modern footy and even the 'best' like Milne and Davis flop in finals when there's less time and space and the footy is far more contested. 

[Yeahright]

Anyone tell me why he doesn't train?

[one-eyed]

Anyone tell me why he doesn't train?

Turner was in the rehab group at yesterday's training session.