Show Faith??

[Tiger Spirit]

Should Terry show faith in some of the senior players who haven't been playing well this year...

TW has said that he will give players a go first.  Not sure whether it was until about half way through the season or thereabouts.

Realistically, what is the alternative?  Most of the younger players are either too young and inexperienced or just not ready.

Our list is no where near where it needs to be, we all know that.  It’s not easy watching your team get shellacked every other week, season in season out, but what can we do about it in the short-term and how does cutting down any player who at least has a go make any real difference?  Remember that this is the first year of a long ride.  Obviously there are players who shouldn’t be on our list, but we’ve been through all the reasons why they are before.

Let’s just stay calm and realise that this is just the start of building a new team and those who can’t cut it won’t last.  As long as we can see a new culture emerge that’s part way to ensuring we have a better team down the track, with a better environment for players to get the best out of themselves.  Which hasn’t always been the case, because we’ve all seen weaknesses in players over the years and nothing was ever done about them.  Hopefully now the new coaching staff won’t let those things just slip through unnoticed and players will have to work on those areas or they won’t last.

Just for now, if players can show a bit of staying power and see out a game then that’s something and is more than we’ve been given in the past.

Until the list has had time to improve and we can get back to being more than just competitive, then all you can ask is that players do their best.  And if that’s not good enough, so be it, just for now.  It won’t be forever.

Alternatively, we can just get cranky with every player on the list every time we lose a game and want them shipped out to another Club, or anywhere else, as long as it’s not here.

I was talking to a Geelong supporter yesterday and asked him if he wanted another of our players and suggested maybe they might like Tiv.  By my calculations, in a half decent team, they could have him playing decent, effective footy in about 6 weeks time.  Ok, maybe a bit longer.

We have other players on our list who are at least  half decent now, but imagine them in a better line up, how good could they be?  We won’t even talk about that dud Fiora.

[H Tiger]

Well guys very interesting to read everyones views on the weekends game.

Everyone who I thought was poor has been covered.

Can't bring myself to write much more about this game as it was so disheartening. (Much respect WP for toughing out even 1/2 a replay of that.)

IMO TW must make changes after a performance like that. The Burgers won on the W/E so some must come up and some must go down.

Chaffey No1, too slow of mind and body.

[Moi]

Realistically, what is the alternative?  Most of the younger players are either too young and inexperienced or just not ready.
Our list is no where near where it needs to be, we all know that.  It’s not easy watching your team get shellacked every other week, season in season out, but what can we do about it in the short-term and how does cutting down any player who at least has a go make any real difference? 

I'm of the other view TS that positions should be earned.  When they've played badly over a "number" of weeks (not on any given week), i think it's beneficial for the club and individual to have a good run in the seconds to get back form and confidence, and away from the pressure that they get from ppl (mainly supporters) who constantly bag the crap out of them.  Worked well for Bowden.  And gives a kid in the 2nds a chance to be rewarded for efforts.  That kind of system IMO keeps everyone on their toes. 

Giving a player carte blanche, saying his bad form means he won't be dropped and i've got faith in you, doesn't work for me.  When do you draw the line with a player.  Tivvas was up there in the B&F a couple of years ago, so he's no hack.  He might be getting lots of possesions still, but he's not dominating a game like he did that year and i think it would be good for him.  Same with Krak or anyone who's not playing well.

Let’s just stay calm and realise that this is just the start of building a new team and those who can’t cut it won’t last.

Agree, but i want to be sure that those who can't cut it get the best player management (see above) to ensure we don't let a good one go, and that a kid who might have been good doesn't get cast off into footy obscurity because he wasn't managed properly, rewarded when appropriate etc.

[Tiger Spirit]

Couldn’t disagree with anything you’ve said Moi and of course players have to earn their spot and so on.

By TW saying that he’s going to give players a go before making any decisions about them, how much of a chance can some expect when they’ve been at the Club for a number of years already and probably had more chances than they might have had elsewhere?  Under those circumstances, if a player was let go, could we then think that we were losing someone “good”?

If players can go to another Club and get something better out of themselves there then good luck to them.  It’s obviously up to our footy club to be able to do the same, which we haven’t done in the past.

Fair enough that people highlight mistakes by our players and so on and areas that they need to work on and improve in.  But the game on the weekend highlighted the difference in two teams at opposite ends of the spectrum.  How much easier is Fiora’s football life in a team that plays like a team?  If he was still at RFC we’d still be bagging him for this that and everything else.

The point is that we just don’t have the overall class and ability of the better teams and until we can develop such a list then any mistakes players make will be costly.  I’m not saying they don’t have to work on those things, because of course they do.  And part of the problem has been that our players have been able to get away with too much in the past to ever become more than average footballers.

But going back to a point I made last week, our turnovers and skill errors just highlight how far we have to go as a team.  Mainly because we turn the ball over in the first place and then because we can’t pressure the opposition to win back possession.  And that’s been happening for donkeys years.

Until our list significantly improves, in experience and quality, then the most you can ask of any player, at this stage, is that they do their best and, for the younger players, that they learn as much as they can from each game, gain experience and work towards developing a winning culture?  If they can do that under current circumstances then the future has to be better.

I understand what you say about keeping people on their toes, and it is necessary to drop and bring in other players at various times.  But, realistically, what results are we expecting from that system, right now, when the only thing that’s going to make us a better team is a better list, which is improving, but still needs a lot more work.  In the short-term, dropping and bringing in other players doesn’t change anything much, except give us someone different to bag.

Give players a go if they deserve it and drop those who’ve had a go, but I don’t expect by doing that it’s going to dramatically alter anything for some time to come yet.

[Moi]

By TW saying that he’s going to give players a go before making any decisions about them, how much of a chance can some expect when they’ve been at the Club for a number of years already and probably had more chances than they might have had elsewhere?  Under those circumstances, if a player was let go, could we then think that we were losing someone “good”?

Well, seeing as those players were coached under Frawley, I'd say any of them could improve under Wallace - Tuck being a good example of one so far this year who we probably would have had on the scrap heap last year, but i don't think so now.  Same for anyone else on the list.  I have no doubt that the players in your mind that will end up getting cut at the end of the year are the same as mine, but still would like to see the year pan out giving them every chance to prove themselves.  And i don't see Krak and Tivvas on my list just yet, that's why i'd like to see them better managed through what i've said before ad nauseam and, hopefully, they can add value with the Tigers rather than elsewhere.

[DallasCrane]

Joel Bowden is doing exactly what Terry wants - that is he is taking on his opponents, holding posession, running, carrying, being creative, trying to get his teamates into the game, and playing his natural game.

I agree HH. My only problem with him is that his defensive game lets him down sometimes. IMO, when you are playing the majority of your game in the backline, you have to have a defensive game, even if you are the most creative and attacking player there. Bowden's standoffish 'zoning' doesn't cut it, he needs to tackle more, or at least rush the player.

Sometimes this comes unstuck and the ball is turned over but this is maiinly due to the fact that his incompetent teamates are not capable of playing to that level.  This isn't Bowdens fault.

Whose fault was it then when he got ran down last Sunday? He was standing there like a millionaire!!! (he prob is one!) He had options everywhere.
This comment also implies that Bowden is a class above the rest of the side, which he is not.

I don't neccessarily agree that he covers heaps of ground either. He does a lot of jogging on the spot- CHB is perfect for him.

[Tiger Spirit]

Well, seeing as those players were coached under Frawley, I'd say any of them could improve under Wallace - Tuck being a good example of one so far this year who we probably would have had on the scrap heap last year, but i don't think so now. Same for anyone else on the list. I have no doubt that the players in your mind that will end up getting cut at the end of the year are the same as mine, but still would like to see the year pan out giving them every chance to prove themselves. And i don't see Krak and Tivvas on my list just yet, that's why i'd like to see them better managed through what i've said before ad nauseam and, hopefully, they can add value with the Tigers rather than elsewhere.

Again, don’t disagree with any of that Moi and I think we’d all like to know that players are managed properly and given a fair go.  But just because we don’t see a change in the way some players play, do we assume they’re not being managed properly or that they just don’t have what it takes?  Unless you’re on the inside how do we know?  We’ve probably all had our doubts about how things have been run in the past, but if we’re not getting it right now then I may just go look for those razor blades.

I don’t know if it really says anything about how things have changed or not, but on Club Corner the other night, Greg Miller mentioned about some of our weaknesses and how it was noticed that Cogs sometimes handballs short, which can put a teammate under pressure.  No kidding.

How long has he been at this footy club and how long has he been doing that?  By my recollections, a lot longer than Sunday’s game.  If a nuff nuff like me could see that yonks ago, why is it still happening, enough to be a concern, when it could have been coached out of him by now, you would think?

Guess we should just be grateful it’s been noted, if it wasn’t before.  Which hopefully means they’ll do something about it now and also that things that went unchecked before won’t now or in the future.  We can only hope.

[Fishfinger]

Whose fault was it then when he got ran down last Sunday? iHe was standing there like a millionaire!!! (he prob is one!) He had options everywhere.

The player who handballed to Bowden didn't then block Milne. He had his back to Milne looking for one of those options everywhere (which I couldn't see, seems he couldn't either). Hall was a couple of metres away watching and, unless he can talk without his lips moving, wasn't warning him he was hot.

[DallasCrane]

The player who handballed to Bowden didn't then block Milne. He had his back to Milne looking for one of those options everywhere (which I couldn't see, seems he couldn't either). Hall was a couple of metres away watching and, unless he can talk without his lips moving, wasn't warning him he was hot.

I thought he had someone wide on the opposite flank, Hall himself was an option, despite the fact, and as you correctly pointed out, that he was standing still watching.

And yeh Hall said nothing, no one did...

[Roar]

Whose fault was it then when he got ran down last Sunday? iHe was standing there like a millionaire!!! (he prob is one!) He had options everywhere.

The player who handballed to Bowden didn't then block Milne. He had his back to Milne looking for one of those options everywhere (which I couldn't see, seems he couldn't either). Hall was a couple of metres away watching and, unless he can talk without his lips moving, wasn't warning him he was hot.

I've only seen 3 players from memory who have put a block or layed a shepherd all year and they are Knobel, Campbell, Richo & maybe Krak so untill we can do these things as second nature we are not going to climb a long way in a short time.

[Moi]

Be interesting to follow Woewodin after his demotion to the seconds.  If it's good enough for a Brownlow Medallist, it's good enough for any of our players.  Good on Malthouse for having the guts to show that no-one is immune from being dropped if form is lousy.