Grundy v Vlastuin.

[gerkin greg]

super troll 

reckon i did more than enough posts on this topic prior to the draft that says your an imbecile.
if calling me a troll is all you have you have nothing.

its pretty simple we took vlastuin over grundy. both were high quality picks and imo both were worthy top 10 picks. thing is  one covered list needs in a big way  and is a rarity and one is a type we could have used our next 3 picks on.

ya know they said we were taking mids they explained we lacked depth with them and what do they do?
 how many genuine mids have we taken,  have we ended up with any pure mids other than vlastuin. and thats both trade and nd.

we lack a ruckman no we lack two ruckmen what do we get?  well i will  tell ya.  if we are lucky a lesser version of vickery a 202 cm forward who will never be big enough to play as a competitive ruckman. you want to see a ruckman go look at ivan and ask yourself what traits does mcbean have of ivan.
we have enough roughly 200cm forwards cum second string ruckmen in vickery and elton even griffiths now we have mcbean sheesh.

 

[rogerd3]

While im okay with the Vlastuin pick im shocked no one on any site has commented on us not taking Grundy at 9.
i know most are going to say we took mcbean at 33 to me this is a wasted pick if we are after a competitive ruckman, im not even sure mcbean is a ruckman he may be tall but he sure doesnt show many ruckman like traits.

im not going to bag em i will wait and see but overall for me disappointing sums up our trade and nd period.

but every trade for is disappointing for you Mr Claw, not unlike PRE when
you posted there, granted you were right along with others in those dreadful days
for the RFC.

[Phil Mrakov]

In b4 Vlastuin wins Rising Star and Grundy is disappointing

[the claw]

Preferred Jaksch orGrundy over Vlastuin but I expect Vlastuin will be a good player.

not having a go at vlastuin i rate him highly as well.. in fact if grundy had already gone id be over the moon with this pick.
im asking apart from vlastuin did we really address any of the list needs i dont think we did.

4  key areas needed addressing in the trade nd.

1/ real big kpd we got  chaplin before the draft so this was not a priority in the nd.
2/ we cut two ruckmen leaving just one imo. our ruckman is 27 at the start of the yr the time was right to take a genuine high quality ruckman who is a genuine #1 ruckman.
3/ we have just 8 to 10 what you would call genuine mids in our system we are screaming out for probably 4. yet we end up with just one and a lot of people would argue not me that hes a hbf.
4/ with just riewoldt, vickery, elton and god forbid mcguane named as our tall forwards, the need for a genuine  tall forward was just as dire as our needs for a genuine ruckman . yet we take a tall defender in mcintosh and are planning to try to turn him into a mid. unbelievable why cant they just take the best genuine mid available rather than being cute.

to top it all off we have taken edwards and knights in f/a and trade two players expected to play as med forwards, we takeke em  to go with the other  edwards nahas king white who we hung onto god knows why  all sml forwards and we draft another sml forward at 43. please tell me where are they addressing the list needs in the nd.

what did we end up with as far as addressing the list goes.well  i will leave it everyone else to think that thru for themselves . vlastuin aside  i have to say im disappointed.
i just hope they have picked two or three good players nd perhaps the needs can be addressed next yr .
what i dont get is why they acknowledge the needs then do little to over come them.

[Francois Jackson]

look claw not sure if we chose the right guy and to be honest we probably wont know for a year or 2, but i cant understand how we can risk heading into a new year with Maric and Vickery as our only recognized ruckman.

Its a massive risk IMO

Surely we have someone in mind in the PSD

[Phil Mrakov]

Preferred Jaksch orGrundy over Vlastuin but I expect Vlastuin will be a good player.

not having a go at vlastuin i rate him highly as well.. in fact if grundy had already gone id be over the moon with this pick.
im asking apart from vlastuin did we really address any of the list needs i dont think we did.

4  key areas needed addressing in the trade nd.

1/ real big kpd we got  chaplin before the draft so this was not a priority in the nd.
2/ we cut two ruckmen leaving just one imo. our ruckman is 27 at the start of the yr the time was right to take a genuine high quality ruckman who is a genuine #1 ruckman.
3/ we have just 8 to 10 what you would call genuine mids in our system we are screaming out for probably 4. yet we end up with just one and a lot of people would argue not me that hes a hbf.
4/ with just riewoldt, vickery, elton and god forbid mcguane named as our tall forwards, the need for a genuine  tall forward was just as dire as our needs for a genuine ruckman . yet we take a tall defender in mcintosh and are planning to try to turn him into a mid. unbelievable why cant they just take the best genuine mid available rather than being cute.

to top it all off we have taken edwards and knights in f/a and trade two players expected to play as med forwards, we takeke em  to go with the other  edwards nahas king white who we hung onto god knows why  all sml forwards and we draft another sml forward at 43. please tell me where are they addressing the list needs in the nd.

what did we end up with as far as addressing the list goes.well  i will leave it everyone else to think that thru for themselves . vlastuin aside  i have to say im disappointed.
i just hope they have picked two or three good players nd perhaps the needs can be addressed next yr .
what i dont get is why they acknowledge the needs then do little to over come them.

We addressed the need to send Jackson to Coburg and replace him with a hard nut midfielder with elite disposal

[Penelope]

pretty sure we will rookie a mature ruckman.

  at craw peeling of the names of the small/medium forwards he doesnt rate that are still on the list then questions the drafting of a small forward, who can play midfield, as not filling a list need.

also craw, why do you think the dutchman is a HBF not a mid?  what traits does he lack that suggest he best suited to a flank and not to the midfield?

[the claw]

pretty sure we will rookie a mature ruckman.

  at craw peeling of the names of the small/medium forwards he doesnt rate that are still on the list then questions the drafting of a small forward, who can play midfield, as not filling a list need.

also craw, why do you think the dutchman is a HBF not a mid?  what traits does he lack that suggest he best suited to a flank and not to the midfield?

so you would rather we take a sml forward when we are screaming out for mids just great way to go. you would rather we take that sml forward having just traded for two mature med sized forwards to go with s edwards nahas and king.

are you sure we will draft a mature ruckman of corse we will probably cam wood im looking forward to seeing that hack in a richmond jumper just like im sure you are.

lastly nowhere have i said vlastuin is a hbf. read again what has been said. nes always been a mid to me but there are plenty who will argue with you wrongly imo that hes nothing more than a flanker. i dont have a problem with vlastuin but i do have a problem with list managment and what we have done.

[Penelope]

ok sorry, i misread the hbf thing re vastulin

as for the small forward, do you think we have the quality long term in this area?

[the claw]

ok sorry, i misread the hbf thing re vastulin

as for the small forward, do you think we have the quality long term in this area?

we are supposed to be aiming for finals next yr what is the greater need more mids oor small forwards.
 cmon al its not that hard to work out.
we all moaned like bunnies this yr including the club about the lack of midfield depth what the hell have we done to address it. the lack of logic with them  if you like is just a little perplexing.

[Mr Magic]

I was an advocate of Grundy pre draft but Vlastuin looks to be a very solid pick (his RFC highlights package is awesome) so I'm not complaining.

He may well prove a lot more valuable to our club than Grundy will at the Pies both short and long term.

McBean? Who knows. So hard to judge the talls.

[Loui Tufga]

ok sorry, i misread the hbf thing re vastulin

as for the small forward, do you think we have the quality long term in this area?

we are supposed to be aiming for finals next yr what is the greater need more mids oor small forwards.
 cmon al its not that hard to work out.
we all moaned like bunnies this yr including the club about the lack of midfield depth what the hell have we done to address it. the lack of logic with them  if you like is just a little perplexing.

If we're aiming for finals then debuting 4 first year players wouldnt get us there anyway! We need to rely on the kids we have picked othe past to step up Arnott, Ellis, Conca, Martin need to take that next step again next year. If you think that debuting 4 first year mids is going to get us into the finals then our more delusional than I thought

[Crumden]

With a top ten pick go best available every time. Best chance to get some silk in the team and not the place to play cute going for list needs.

[Penelope]

ok sorry, i misread the hbf thing re vastulin

as for the small forward, do you think we have the quality long term in this area?

we are supposed to be aiming for finals next yr what is the greater need more mids oor small forwards.
 cmon al its not that hard to work out.
we all moaned like bunnies this yr including the club about the lack of midfield depth what the hell have we done to address it. the lack of logic with them  if you like is just a little perplexing.

so now we are drafting for this year?
we still have weaknesses all over the ground.
here is a forward who can play midfield as well.
skill wise (assuming he makes the grade) he upgrades white, king, and nahas, so it potentially fills a need.

what so hard to work out about that?

we don't have an abundance of any proven type of player at the moment
If the club rate him higher than the "pure midfield" players available at that pick, why would you overlook him.

Rather than get so wrapped up about in semantics about having 2 of this and 3 of that and 4 of that and player x is doesnt fill the need, why not look at what attributes they bring as footballers and are they likely to upgrade on any of those you see as holding us back?

.

[Yeahright]

ok sorry, i misread the hbf thing re vastulin

as for the small forward, do you think we have the quality long term in this area?

we are supposed to be aiming for finals next yr what is the greater need more mids oor small forwards.
 cmon al its not that hard to work out.
we all moaned like bunnies this yr including the club about the lack of midfield depth what the hell have we done to address it. the lack of logic with them  if you like is just a little perplexing.

Drafting halfback flankers allows our halfback flankers who can play midfield move into there even if its just a rotation. This refers to Newman, Houli, Ellis, perhaps even Batch. And maybe Arnott but who knows considering he hasn't played yet.
I think with list needs you just want us to have double of everything, but thats just silly. You gotta consider durability of players. Midfielders generally spend more time injured than your ruckman which logic says get more midfielders.

On Vlastuin, not sure if i rate him but thats harsh since all I've seen is one highlight package. But I reckon the club was right selecting him over Grundy. You never know with ruckman, you get quality in the rookie drafts and PSD. But with midfielders, the quality definitely comes more from the top end. With that in mind, why recruit a ruckman early and then recruit just soldier midfielders later for depth when some of you don't even think Conca or Ellis are good enough (only a select few)?