Author Topic: Americans and their guns  (Read 10207 times)

Offline dwaino

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 06:45:45 PM »
Don't forget that prior to Port Arthur we didn't have a gun culture. Enthusiasts and such always had them, but remember in the US there are many who still believe it is their right to bare firearms, as it is written, out of distrust of their rulers. Gun laws in the USA is a whole different can of worms, and definitely outside of any moral or subjective compass, as a disarmament of the citizens (regardless if it's to only restrict certain kinds of firearms, it's how it will be viewed) would be interpreted as an infraction of civil rights and liberties and many will see the disarmament/restriction as the very reason they need to arm themselves against their 'oppressive government.'

Blokes like Alex Jones are, and will even more, having a field day on this one.

Kick a crow.

Offline dwaino

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 11:10:02 PM »
Kick a crow.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 12:14:30 AM »
unfarginbelievable
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Bengal

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 07:56:48 AM »
he's alright for a conservative is Mr Turnball..  Nice tongue in cheek dig..   :clapping

Offline Francois Hackson

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 09:45:25 AM »
he's alright for a conservative is Mr Turnball..  Nice tongue in cheek dig..   :clapping

too right. I cant understand why he doesn't run for the Libs.

He would be a great leader and i know a few ALP voters who would vote for him even if he ran for them.



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Offline Coach

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 12:47:21 PM »
Was leader at the wrong time. Would be by far the best man for the job

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 01:12:02 PM »
A leading Democratic senator launched a bid to ban assault weapons in the wake of the latest deadly US school shooting, announcing that she will put a bill before Congress on January 3.

Dianne Feinstein, the influential chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said she believed President Barack Obama would support her legislation, also aimed at outlawing magazines carrying more than 10 bullets.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/democrat-dianne-feinstein-to-put-forward-legislation-to-ban-weapons/story-e6frf7jo-1226538116508

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2012, 10:44:26 PM »
But the really sad part is that it would seem the majority of Americans believe the only way to stop this sort of carnage is not changing to strict gun laws but to just arm every single citizen and train them to shot and ask question later  :help
From a US Republican senator - "I wish to God she [slain school principal Dawn Hochsprung] had had an M-4 [assault rifle] in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out … and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids."

http://www.theage.com.au/world/senators-speak-in-favour-of-gun-reform-20121217-2bjd9.html#ixzz2FUottG9X

A UTAH sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to last week's mass shooting at a Connecticut school, officials said Tuesday.

The 11-year-old was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at the suburban Salt Lake City elementary school told police he threatened them with the handgun.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/utah-boy-11-takes-gun-to-school-after-newtown-school-shooting/story-e6frf7jo-1226540399971


The obvious problem with the argument that everyone should have guns is it ignores imperfect real world scenarios. Firstly the attacker has the advantage of surprise and normally first shot. Then what is this armed teacher meant to do if there's kids between them and the gunman? Or what happens if the gunman shoots the teacher first as the attacker thereby obtaining an additional weapon to shoot others? Or what happens if it's not a school but a cinema as was the case a recent previous massacre where it's dark and no one can know for sure who and where the gunman is and who are fellow movie goers shooting at who they think is the gunman? Say hello to even more killings.

Anyway hopefully the current positive talk to finally do something about gun control is finally backed up with some action. 
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Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2012, 09:36:32 AM »
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.

Offline Francois Hackson

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2012, 12:06:15 PM »
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.

 :thumbsup Correct me if i was wrong but what Howard did was immediately after the Port A massacre, not years after?

couldn't have said it better myself.

All talk and no action thus far from Obama. That being said if seeing little kids getting shot doesn't bring change then im afraid nothing will.

Has there ever been a massacre like this in the USA where kids were killed. It really hits home when lives so young are gone.
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Offline dwaino

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2012, 12:11:42 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I believe in firearm restrictions, but in the USA there are over 220 million registered firearms, a gun culture, and many levels of well organised crime. Will take something pretty special to get anything done in the near future. We also didn't require an amendment to our constitution. Ever watched Doomsday Preppers on Nat Geo? This is a culture of people who believe they require these weapons to protect their families from the very country and government who now look to taking them away. It's pretty naive to think the solution is as easy as signing a bill.
Kick a crow.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2012, 04:12:41 PM »
I'm sure when those constitutional laws were drafted that they didn't envisage assault riles and mass murder of American children.

Rights to carry semi automatic guns? What about the right to be safe?

Obama should look at what Howard did. Changing our laws in the wake of Port Arthur is still one of the things he is best things he ever did.
It wasn't unpopular with the masses, quite the opposite.

Show some balls Barrack.
America is a nation founded on violence and bloodshed, that is why that was written into the constitution. Bugger me, they even went to war with themselves.

But if you think the banning of semi autos will stop this sort of thing then you are delusional. gun control is a bandaid solution, dished out by those who don't know how to address the real problem and lapped up by those that don't even know what the real problem is.

I'd love to know how gun control will stop people flipping out and wanting to do this sick poo

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2012, 04:35:21 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I believe in firearm restrictions, but in the USA there are over 220 million registered firearms, a gun culture, and many levels of well organised crime. Will take something pretty special to get anything done in the near future. We also didn't require an amendment to our constitution. Ever watched Doomsday Preppers on Nat Geo? This is a culture of people who believe they require these weapons to protect their families from the very country and government who now look to taking them away. It's pretty naive to think the solution is as easy as signing a bill.

I'd love to know how gun control will stop people flipping out and wanting to do this sick poo

I'm sure you're both quite aware of the number of mass killing spree that have occurred since Port Arthur.
In the 18 years prior to that incident there were 13 mass killings and in the 18 years since semi automatics and assault rifles were banned there has been zero.

Now obviously America is a different kettle of fish but surely they have got to try.
Even if it only prevented one of these regularly occurring slaughters it would be worth doing surely???
The alternative is to shrug shoulders?? :help

You will never eradicate it completely but they have to try to limit access to these weapons of mass destruction.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2012, 04:59:08 PM »
if you think the alternative is to shrug shoulders i take it you are not a believer in getting to the root cause of problems.

I'm still unsure how limiting people to only access bolt and pump action rifles is the reason there have been no mass shootings in the last 18 years?

perhpas as a nation we have got better at identifying and dealing with the mentals?

Australians have never had legal access to assault rifles, i don't believe.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Americans and their guns
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2012, 06:47:14 PM »
I'm still unsure how limiting people to only access bolt and pump action rifles is the reason there have been no mass shootings in the last 18 years?

If it's not the reason, it's one mighty coincidence.
More nutbags around than ever.