VFL: Richmond vs Williamstown -- Sat. April 19 (nb. game moved to Williamstown)

[tiga]

But WP there are some definite advantages to winning. I would much prefer to see development and a winning culture. Losing sucks just quietly and can be demoralising and frustrating. In my younger days I played at a high level in another sport and was asked to play for a club that needed me. Turned out they needed at least four of me. They were crap and I hated it because I was busting a gut every game and losing because of their lack of skills and ability to dig deep when needed. I hated losing and it was demoralising. That one year of losing set me back two years in my development. I eventually won a grand final but a losing culture can be like concrete cancer and it took me two years to get rid of all the negative stuff I picked up from that one bad season.

Winning is hard and requires effort and dedication. Losing requires no effort at all.


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[Mr Magic]

Good post tiga.
Even the brightest of us can't surely accept that the side getting flogged is good for anyone's development.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

How many teams, that have started off in their very first year of playing together, do well?

Not many is the answer.

I think we have to wait for the team to start gelling together, understanding each others strengths and weaknesses before we become more competitive.

That may take a while with a side that also isn't consistently uniform with guys coming and going.....

[WilliamPowell]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.

How many teams, that have started off in their very first year of playing together, do well?

Not many is the answer.

I think we have to wait for the team to start gelling together, understanding each others strengths and weaknesses before we become more competitive.

That may take a while with a side that also isn't consistently uniform with guys coming and going.....

Exactly 

But WP there are some definite advantages to winning. I would much prefer to see development and a winning culture.

Didn't say there wasn't tiga, all I am saying is the development for us needs to the priority the results aren't as important.

I agree they need to be competitive and show the hunger and intensity and based on what I saw last week that isn't there but at the same time don't I expect them to win every week, nor do I want to see them being beated by 20 goals. What I expect to see is the likes of McBean, Lennon, McIntosh etc play with an intensity that has them banging down the door for AFL. Or the McBean's & Eltons understand that you have to give the 2nd & 3rd efforts at each contest. Or an O'Hanlon show a defensive side of to his game and gut run when he doesn't have the ball, rather than letting his man have a 15 metre start. That's in part what I mean by the development side needing to be the priority

Again I say look at Geelong, their model clearly works and their main focus is development first & results 2nd.

From what I worte last night I've underlined a key point

Have also said a number of times that I heard Neil Balme speak at a function a few years ago about the Geelong VFL model (which Richmond said they are using) and Geelong's focus has always been about development first and results second and it cannot be disputed that it has worked for them in spades. Firstly, their kids are not thrown to the wolves too early and when they do get promoted they are ready. Secondly, the Geelong culture driven at AFL level predominantly by the players flows through to VFL level which leads to the results they've achieved (again Balme highlighted this at the function I was at). I reckon Balme is a first rate operator so if he reckons development is the first priority and the results secondary then I am more than happy to follow that argument

Perhaps once we get the culture right at AFL level then the flow on effect will be there to assist in the VFL side having the right culture as well

[1965]

Methinks somebody has got way too much time on his hands.

 

[tony_montana]

We won't see definitive signs of the impact having our own reserves side will have on our group for a year or so. Would think realistically next year and beyond we should start seeing positive signs of players' development.

[Mr Magic]

Think we've been following the 'Geelong model' for about 10 years now..be a red letter day when teams are talking about following the Richmond one..

[Smokey]

Think we've been following the 'Geelong model' for about 10 years now..be a red letter day when teams are talking about following the Richmond one..

Yep, like they used to until we got carried away with our own invincibility and stuck our heads so far up our own collective rears that it took 30 years to see daylight again and we are still trying to remove the stench.

[tiga]

This whole "taking time to gel" thing is absolute bollocks. So how about I throw some "facts" into my so called rant.

The team who got flogged by 11 goals against Willie had 13 players in that team who have played together before and 11 at AFL level, so to make the excuse that they need time to work out each others game is a hollow excuse. That's 11 players of AFL standard playing against a team with only ONE player I could see (Mangan) who has even been previously listed by an AFL club.
There is something more serious afoot than any gelling issues if a team with 11 players with solid AFL experience, cant beat a team of park players.

On Friday we could only muster a draw against another team full of park players. Is it really acceptable that we are trying to develop players in a team which is proving that they are unable to beat park players?

[YellowandBlackBlood]

This whole "taking time to gel" thing is absolute bollocks. So how about I throw some "facts" into my so called rant.

The team who got flogged by 11 goals against Willie had 13 players in that team who have played together before and 11 at AFL level, so to make the excuse that they need time to work out each others game is a hollow excuse. That's 11 players of AFL standard playing against a team with only ONE player I could see (Mangan) who has even been previously listed by an AFL club.
There is something more serious afoot than any gelling issues if a team with 11 players with solid AFL experience, cant beat a team of park players.

On Friday we could only muster a draw against another team full of park players. Is it really acceptable that we are trying to develop players in a team which is proving that they are unable to beat park players?

So that means half the team hasn't played with each other!
Maybe, just maybe, the team orders are to practice certain routines on the park. This may not be conducive at the time to a victory, but hoping to hone in certain playing styles into the players game.
I don't know if this is the case or not but by the rhetoric spouted out by the club it certainly sounds likely.
Look, I want our club to be successful as much as anybody here but there are ways of doing that in a meaningful way.  We let the current regime complete what they say will be a successful process and then judge them. If they don't deliver they go. But criticizing the seconds after a handful of games as a new club is not going to get you far in righting any wrongs.
I hate losing as much (or more!) than most. On this occasion I think we should give them some time.
The seniors, however, are another case. Those players who are more than 5 years out and not performing should be given notice.

[Gigantor]

Unless the instructions they are getting are all  left footers/handballers use their right and visa versa,then we are in big trouble I think

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Unless the instructions they are getting are all  left footers/handballers use their right and visa versa,then we are in big trouble I think

[WilliamPowell]

This whole "taking time to gel" thing is absolute bollocks. So how about I throw some "facts" into my so called rant.

The team who got flogged by 11 goals against Willie had 13 players in that team who have played together before and 11 at AFL level, so to make the excuse that they need time to work out each others game is a hollow excuse. That's 11 players of AFL standard playing against a team with only ONE player I could see (Mangan) who has even been previously listed by an AFL club.
There is something more serious afoot than any gelling issues if a team with 11 players with solid AFL experience, cant beat a team of park players.

On Friday we could only muster a draw against another team full of park players. Is it really acceptable that we are trying to develop players in a team which is proving that they are unable to beat park players?

tiga, You really need to see some of the VFL listed blokes running around, they are so far behind our blokes skills wise that it is scary. If one of our blokes give it off to an VFL listed bloke who then proceeds to (under no pressure I might add) give it straight to the opposition then it would matter if they've played together for 10 years the gulf in skills is going to kill you a fair bit I reckon.

You call the Frankston blokes "park players" and you are in part correct. But the reality is we had almost half our team made up of "park players" who are average at best. It's not meant to be an excuse, just the reality of what we have running around out there.

Will be really interesting to see how they go next week -v- Geelong's VFL side (think that's who we've got next)

[Francois Jackson]

WP its not the players its how they are coached in the seniors and its not filtering through down to the reserves.

What incentives have they got in the seconds?

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I have been questioning the whereabouts of one A. Davey for a while. I thought he was employed as a player in our VFL side.
He would at least inject needed class into the team.

Anybody know what happened there?